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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI hate to break it to you, but. . .
The simple, stunning truth of the matter is that despite the increasingly warm summers, despite the ever more destructive storms, nothing, not one damn truly constructive thing is going to be done about global climate change until it is far too late. There is a simple reason for that, our society is based around short term thinking, absolutely entrenched in short term thinking.
Corporations main focus is on the quarterly and yearly balance sheets. Sure, they make forecasts five, even ten years down the road, but those forecasts are flawed, since they are based on the physical conditions that they can see.
Politicians are even worse, focusing two, at the most six years down the road, whenever their next election is. Worse, while corporations are at least based on black and white, profit and loss, politicians base their actions on the vagaries of their constituents, who often have conflicting messages, thus forcing the politician into incremental change at best.
For example, fifty years ago the alarm started to be sounded about the dangers of man's environmental destruction. Some major accomplishments were achieved, rivers that once burned were cleaned up, cities that once choked on smog could breath again. But real, fundamental systematic change simply didn't happen. We continued to burn fossil fuels, we continued to poison our water, air and earth. It wasn't like we didn't have the technical means for change, hell, the hybrid vehicle came out in '67, in Germany.
No, it was short term thinking that was the problem. Why should auto dealers convert to electric, why should oil companies give up their hold on power and money when the consequences would be paid later, by someone else. Why should politicians put their ass on the line to prevent global climate change when doing so meant that it would get shot off in the next election.
Thus, down the merry road we went, and here we are. The hard decisions, the long term decisions aren't being made. Oil companies and other such industries are successfully defending their turf. Politicians are still too timid to make the real changes necessary to save our country, our people. And those who are creating change on their own, well, they are far too few.
Nope, now we're entering the death spiral. As the days get warmer, we'll simply crank up the AC. As crops fail, one after the other, we'll simply truck the food in from somewhere else through scorched fields of drought stricken crops all across what was once the bread basket of this nation. Sure, it's going to cost us more, we the people. But we have an amazing toleration to such things, taking such events in stride without complaint or the bread riots of other countries. Corporations aren't going to complain, because they're going to be making more profit.
And don't think that technology will save us. After all, what is used in today's technology? More resources used, more polluting products that are a short term fix at the expense of long term destruction. Technology is a rope and lumber bridge being built from one side instead of both sides. It will get you only so far before collapsing and throwing you into the abyss.
So, we'll continue down that merry slide, and when the crash comes, it will be devastating. Famine, riots, blood in the streets, the whole apocalypto-porn grand production. That is what happens in the classic J curve when resource demand outstrips actual resources. A sudden, sharp rise followed by a catastrophic collapse.
So what to do, out here dancing on the edge of the abyss? Party like it's 1999, cruising in the SUV while cranking up every single electrical device you can possibly own? I'm sure some people are. Me, I'm still trying to do my best to lessen my impact upon the world, and will continue to do so throughout my life. I'm still trying to enact change in a world I already know won't change. After all, I couldn't live with myself otherwise.
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SoutherDem
(2,307 posts)If we wait for the market place to fix this it will be too late. But, I agree with you we will wait till it is too late and then it will be President Obamas fault, because we know the Republicans have wanted to fix this problem for sometime.
In all seriousness, if it wasn't an election year and we didn't just have the SCOTUS decision on heath care at least the heat wave may be leading the news rather than being squeezed in.
DearAbby
(12,461 posts)RIGHT at the last moment, don't sweat the small shit. How can you argue that?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And to hell with everyone else. After all, if they don't believe just as they do, they won't be seeing them later. I remember during the BP mess in the Gulf, they acted like it was all great. All those signs, just fine and dandy, everything that is horrible, just great. They are relieved of taking any actions except for themselves, not matter who get hurt. Because they have a get-out-of-hell/tribulation-free card, and could care less. Sigh..
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)going to die as a direct result of inaction.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)But we could still actually mitigate a lot of the damage in the future if we acted wisely now. But that isn't going to happen. I mean really now, hybrids are just now common place. All electric cars aren't going to be mainstream for another ten years, and getting off fossil fuels, HAH! That's at least a good forty, fifty years away.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)equipped with solar collection units and set-up to feed the grid. Jobs baby jobs. Then there are the wind mills. Who gives a fuck what they look like, we could intelligently locate them w/o demise to scenary if we worked on it. More jobs baby jobs. All to simple for complicated minds.
Liberty Belle
(9,705 posts)and produce more power at higher altitudes than the land-based ones do, which are so destructive of the environment. Seems a much better option to me, and you wouldn't have any neighbors suing and slowing things down. I oppose wind turbines in areas where the jeopardize human health, wildlife, or ruin beautiful public lands and parks.
Solar on every rooftop and even easier, covering parking lots with solar shade covers is the way to go. It'd been calculated that cities like San Diego with lots of sunshine could power the entire county off solar with incentives to get the big shopping malls, employers, schools etc. to go solar -- all without wrecking the environment or giving any more subsidies to big energy companies.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)Massive amounts of power generation is possible for large office buildings if they'd just install it.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)"The moral equivalent of war", you might recall..
Then of course it became mourning in America and we gave up the small start we have, threw it away deliberately.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)Basically they're going to blot out the skies. Hopefully they don't get it wrong.
mahina
(20,609 posts)might you suggest a link?
Mahalo
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)But scientists are discovering big downsides: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/06/us-geoengineering-research-idUSBRE8550P020120606
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)In other words, who is going to not go on that plane to the vacation destination. Who is not going to have that child. Who is not going to take the multiple trips to the stores when they could consolidate.
The problem is that no one is going to sacrifice.
Like a friend's bumpersticker used to say (back in the 70's)- Don't do something. Just sit there.
I've got to add that even while we do improve technology, population simply wipes it out. And even if it doesn't, and we stay at the present level, or even 1980 levels, we're racing to ever higher carbon dioxide concentrations.
Hey, I love the Tour de France. I heard today that it has the carbon footprint of NORWAY.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Doing at both a large and small scale. For instance, if you're purchasing a new home, you could easily get solar shingles put on your roof, have the cost rolled into your mortgage, and still enjoy the monetary savings over the long term. But there are no major governmental incentives to do so. Nor is there a lot of publicity, most people don't know about solar shingles, much less the long term gain in them.
Most of this change, at least on the personal level, doesn't require sacrifice per say, but simply changing how you look at things, and what you do.
PS, I haven't traveled by plane in decades, ever since I found out that I would be responsible for 1,500 hundred pounds of carbon put into the atmosphere per trip.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)2 people cut 10 trees. That makes a small house. And firewood. 2 billion people cut 20 billion trees. Unsustainable. We can cram more people into the same house. Or make the house smaller. Or try to figure out different material to make the house out of.
I'm always amazed that even the most liberal are unwilling to look at the biggest problem we face. As far as I can tell we're so far over the edge it's not worth discussing. The Berlin air lift was something we had to do, but can you imagine the carbon footprint of that single episode in history. Or Bush's wars. My point being that the incremental changes we're making are small attempts to chisel away at a symptom, and not enough to solve the problem.
At any rate, you sound like someone who cares and understands. It's nice to see people who can see that we're in trouble.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts).. that are so easy to get? I'm pretty up on PV technology (being a consultant in the field) but I am not aware of any sources of so called solar shingles that have been around for long enough to have proven effective. I am aware of several startups that tried to do some integration of thin films and started marketing shingle systems, but all went broke due to various problems with integration, particularly connections and thermal expansion issues.
So I'd appreciate any links to any going concerns that are marketing or installing solar shingles. I'd love to see some firms get the kinks worked out and provide a viable option for new construction. Thanks!
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Biggest manufacturer, and thus probably the easiest to get, is Dow.
http://www.dowpowerhouse.com/index.htm
The other big player in BIPV(building integrated photovoltaic) is Atlantis Energy's Sun Slates
http://www.atlantisenergy.com/
Also check with your local contractor. These are starting to spread. As far as pricing goes, my information is a bit out of date. I contacted a local construction company that was doing the beta testing for Dow back in the spring of 2009, so I imagine that the price has fluctuated a bit since then. However I'm pretty damn certain that by installing solar shingles, you will come out ahead in the long run.
I see there are three roofers in the Austin area that are authorized dealers for the Dow product. I'll call them Thurs and see how they are doing. The four major solar integrator/installers in Austin that I deal with have up to now declined to deal with solar shingles or thin films in general. They are still leary of the long term durability of thin films, and they have had the aforementioned problems with reliability of interconnections and a lot of callback, thus killing their profit on the installations. I'll have to update and see if their attitudes have changed.
The Austin Solar House Tour is coming up, and the Fredericksburg Solar Energy Faire is on again this year (after being cancelled last year due to lack of interest) so I'll get to catch up on that particular field.
Thanks again for the info.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Only by education of the populous and and overwhelming numbers making a personal choice can this be achieved. The thing is I am still not convinced it is too late. People, eh. But I refuse to be a defeatist when it comes to wildlife or to the trees. I think they could still be our salvation. Radical problems require radical solutions. The forests will have to be rebuilt, soon. The natural filter of nature needs to be allowed to run free. With as little further interference and as much assistance as we can manage.
Pretty much a pipe dream but I still hold out that most people on this planet want a better life for those to come. It was what we as a species demanded with the evolution of ideas of freedom and personal responsibility. What greater responsibility can there be than to keep your Mother happy and clean and to make your children's futures happier than your past. If only the message could be heard without the influence of corporate money. Without the input of politics and the filter of mass media obfuscation. If we could all decide what kind of a mark we wanted to leave on the world, right now, or if we want to leave one at all.
More than likely its an accepted fact at the highest levels of power in the world. The decision has been made that the people would panic leading to destabilization of world markets, massive losses in property values and a much less cordial environment to the known polluters and profiteers. Better for them to live out the remaining lives they have as captains of industry and respected members of the community than to be tarred and feathered.
Speck Tater
(10,618 posts)We are capable of taking collective action until the crisis is upon us, but with global warming the hysteresis is massive and now that the crisis IS upon us, it's too late to do anything about it.
Kennah
(14,578 posts)70-95% of the humans gone won't be extinction, but it will be the most significant event in recorded human history.
Speck Tater
(10,618 posts)Perhaps a "bottleneck event" is also a good possibility.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Kennah
(14,578 posts)But consider if areas around the Equator became too hot for humans, and just 1% of the Earth's population were displaced. 70 million refugees globally would be a big fucking deal.
We've already seen heat related deaths in urban population centers, so could probably expect an increase of a million, or even several million, heat related deaths globally. Another big fucking deal.
Perhaps I am clinging to rose colored glasses, and desperately clicking my heels together, but maybe Gaia will first give us a gentle nudge.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)etc. They are killing us so there will be more for themselves.
The Doctor.
(17,266 posts)Nope. Their ego and very realities are built on denial. It doesn't matter that so much of what we predicted decades ago is actually happening.... that's just the climate playing into the grand 'scientific conspiracy'.
And when everything goes to hell, the Powers That Be will use the media to tell their million-moron masses that "It's all the Libruls fault!", and they'll believe it. And they'll grab their guns and 'fight' climate change the only way they know how... by shooting the very people that tried to stop it.
That's how truly stupid these people are.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)...over this issue, you know all hope is lost.
Kennah
(14,578 posts)Deniers - There is no Climate Change. Do nothing. Besides, if there was something to it, we're too far gone.
Believers - There is Climate Change. It's too late. We're too far gone.
While I am inclined to think we are a lot closer to too far gone than I would like to admit, I think we still have to make every effort and try. If for no other reason than to say we didn't give up and we tried.
Small steps, that fall short of a panacea, still make a difference. The idea that we don't try until there is a perfect solution, in any area, is just plain daft. Our efforts progress from poor, to inadequate, to mediocre, to good, to great.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)
FredStembottom
(2,928 posts)White roofs everywhere to reflect heat. Or... Intentional particle releases from jet fuel that build up to form a high altitude " shade" .
Some combination of ideas like that will get us through.
joshcryer
(62,536 posts)The people at the top know that nothing will be done with emissions so they're planning to change the albedo of the planet with high altitude particle emissions.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)And aren't taking into consideration the long term problems associated with such actions. We think we can play god, when really we are still but children on that cosmic scale.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Why else would they accumulate such wealth, build artificial islands and cruise ships that are like small cities to get away on when things gp bad on shore? Why go after so much wealth and buy up land on every continent, work to build a feudalism to keep themselves separate from those they intend to bleed and watch suffer?
They're not uninformed. As usual, the poor will die first, and the population be reduced. Okay now, we're all gonna die, but possibly they won't be going with us and might survive. In Europe during the plague years, some nobles survived by playing the same games, going out to the country to their lands with their servants to survive. They were in charge later. Are we all depressed now?
Let's all go out and eat some worms.
Journeyman
(15,441 posts)what would you answer?"
Points for a Compass Rose
Evan S. Connell
1973
What so many have been saying for so long is, time to do something probably ran out decades ago.
Nihil novi sub sol. ~ Ecclesiastes
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)however much you hated to.
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)then very quickly die off. We're no smarter than yeast.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)...
MADem
(135,425 posts)I think the air is much cleaner than it was in the "acid rain" seventies. I think the water, in Boston Harbor, in the Charles River, and other locations, is much cleaner.
I see more and more of my neighbors buying hybrid cars. Most of my neighbors drive small cars--there's a plumber with a work van, and a family with three kids with a minivan, another family with a teen and a baby with a smaller SUV, another family with a midsized SUV, and one more down the road with a station wagon, but most of my neighbors are in small or mid-sized sedans--and the rich ones, like I said, are driving those hybrids.
I actually know some people who use solar power in their homes to power some stuff--before I only saw it on TV.
Of course, I probably won't live long enough to see all that gloom and doom you are predicting, even though I want to live a good deal many more years, yet.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Has played a rather notable role in why so many people still haven't woken up to reality.
solarman350
(136 posts)This is what happens when you're out of seemingly correct but empirically WRONG solutions to your energy needs...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dbw8dxy9Ubg/T1XkTSIGiPI/AAAAAAAAIdM/uNH-KiZuuAo/s1600/fuJapan_radiation+leak+fears+at+nuclear+power+facilities.jpg
(this'll put it all into perspective...)
Javaman
(65,637 posts)We were told 30+ years ago this was going to happen, yet nothing was done.
MineralMan
(151,142 posts)At that time, I decided not to add new people to the planet by creating children. In forming marriage relationships, that was one of the points of discussion. I kept that promise, made because the overpopulation of the planet was well-understood, even then.
Population uses energy and makes waste. The bottom line is that more people make more waste. I do my best to make as little waste of my own as I can, but I cannot do that for anyone else. What I could do, I did. It's sort of sad, in retrospect, but I don't regret that decision.
Kablooie
(19,103 posts)
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)PB
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
99Forever
(14,524 posts).. will be the legacy we pass to our children. I have doubts that were we to even reverse course instantly, it's already too late. Not saying that each of us shouldn't do what we can, I just don't think it will do the trick. I hope I am wrong.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)The PTB never learn, from one generation to the next.
mattclearing
(10,109 posts)Here in Australia we have instituted carbon pricing and polluters will be taxed. The majority government is polling terribly now and will probably lose their jobs over it, but they did it.
http://www.bna.com/australias-carbon-price-n12884910452/
Key Development: As of July 1, large greenhouse gas emitters must pay $23.50 per metric ton of carbon dioxide.
What's Next: The carbon price will rise to $24.75 in the 2013-14 fiscal year and to $26 in 2014-15.
By Murray Griffin
MELBOURNE, Australia--July 1 marked the start of Australia’s carbon price scheme, which requires large greenhouse gas emitters to pay A$23 ($23.50) per metric ton of carbon dioxide.
The scheme affects almost 300 organizations with facilities that emit more than 25,000 metric tons of greenhouse gases a year. Most are companies, but more than 30 local government authorities that operate large landfills are also affected (35 INER 455, 5/9/12).
Emissions-intensive companies that face international competition will receive free carbon units to help them adjust to the scheme. In the first year, the most emissions-intensive will receive units equivalent to 94.5 percent of average carbon costs for their industry and those that are moderately emissions-intensive will receive units equivalent to 66 percent of costs.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Seriously.
First of all, carbon pricing means that polluters will still pollute, they'll just pass the cost on to their customers in many cases. Second, this is in Australia. Compared to the US and Europe, a drop in the bucket. Even if Australia went completely carbon free, it wouldn't stop the juggernaut rolling towards us.
mattclearing
(10,109 posts)And I said it wasn't true, and provided evidence that not everyone is doing nothing and entrenched in short-term thinking. Obviously Australia is not capable of turning the tide, but it has demonstrated that it is possible for governments to act in a constructive manner to reduce emissions despite the electoral consequences.
Perhaps you should just accept that you are wrong here and apologize rather than try to make up reasons why it doesn't matter that what you said isn't true.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)My Wife & I chose to follow his advice in 2006
since we seemed to be unable to change everyone else.
Since then, we have reduced our Carbon Footprint every year.
This one was easy and inexpensive:
Next year, we will [font size-3]!!!CONSUME!!![/font] even less.
Nothing will raise an individual's awareness of squandering energy better than living on Solar Panels.
If everyone consumed electricity as if they were on Solar Panels,
we wouldn't need Solar Panels.
Tunkamerica
(4,444 posts)not toleration