Please always tip at least 15%, regardless of the service.

[athena]

Another thread has revealed that many DUers -- i.e., self-identified liberals -- think it's OK to tip 10% or less when the service is less than ideal. There are many problems with this.

First, the reasons people give for undertipping are mostly things that are not under the server's control. If the server took too long to bring you your food, it was probably a problem in the kitchen. If the server did not take your order immediately, it was probably the fault of the restaurant owner, who left the restaurant understaffed. Or perhaps a server called in sick and could not be replaced. In those cases, you should speak with the manager, not punish the server or try to send a coded message by leaving a small tip.

Second, most servers in the United States barely make minimum wage, even with tips. This is because the federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13, much lower than the regular minimum wage of $7.25. Although the restaurant is supposed to make up the difference to ensure that every server makes minimum wage, the vast majority don't do so. And many customers, including people who are cheap, Republicans, and foreigners unfamiliar with the system in the U.S., fail to leave any tip at all.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/minimum-wage-tip-map-waiters-waitresses-servers

"The servers who make 'good money' are in the minority," says Maria Myotte, a spokesperson for Restaurant Opportunities Center United, which aims to improve conditions for workers in the industry. She notes that tipped workers are hit especially hard by "wage theft," whereby restaurants don't make up the difference when the tips aren't rolling in. Between 2010 and 2012, the Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor conducted nearly 9,000 investigations in the restaurant industry, and discovered that 83.8 percent had some kind of wage and hour violation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/?utm_term=.e6a344286c9d

There’s this myth, especially if you live in a place like New York or Washington D.C., that what tipped workers make is largely even, that everyone makes what white guys working at fancy steakhouses make.

But even in places like New York and D.C., seventy percent of tipped workers are actually women, largely working at casual restaurants, like Applebees, IHOP , and Olive Garden, earning a median wage of $9 an hour when you include tips. These people suffer three times the poverty rate of the rest of the U.S. workforce, use food stamps at double the rate, and, the worst part, suffer from the absolute worst sexual harassment of any industry in the United States. When you’re a woman living on tips—even if you’re making a lot of money on tips, which most women aren’t—you’re subject to the whims of the customer, and really encouraged by management to objectify yourself or subject yourself to objectification to make money in tips.

Third, female and minority servers are systematically undertipped. One reason for this is that the most expensive restaurants tend to have white male servers. Another reason is that many people are sexist and racist and will perceive flaws in the service when the server is a woman or a minority that they would not notice if the server were a white male. To avoid contributing to wage inequality, tip a higher percentage at cheaper restaurants.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

Studies have shown that tipping is not an effective incentive for performance in servers. It also creates an environment in which people of color, young people, old people, women, and foreigners tend to get worse service than white males. In a tip-based system, nonwhite servers make less than their white peers for equal work. Consider also the power imbalance between tippers, who are typically male, and servers, 70 percent of whom are female, and consider that the restaurant industry generates five times the average number of sexual harassment claims per worker. And that in many instances employers have allegedly misused tip credits, which let owners pay servers less than minimum wage if tipping makes up the difference.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2014/02/17/tipping-system-exacerbates-unfairness-restaurant-pay/XqPSy4UgwgYjhoMWWufzsO/story.html

Women, who make up about 73 percent of tipped workers, are disproportionately harmed. Waitresses in some gritty bars and grills say they feel compelled to flirt with customers and laugh at offensive jokes just to preserve their income. Even then, they earn an average of $0.50 less per hour than male tipped workers, government statistics show. Doing away with the tipped minimum and giving these women a steadier paycheck would be the quickest way to restore their dignity.

Please, regardless of whether you were a Bernie supporter or a Hillary supporter, always tip at least 15%. It's a matter of having empathy for a fellow human being.

[MineralMan]

1. My minimum tip in restaurants is 20%.

It has been that for decades. If I can't afford that, I choose a different place to eat, where I can afford that level of tip. If service is extraordinary, I increase that amount, accordingly, but never drop below it.

[spanone]

3. same for me MM...👍🏼

[MineralMan]

10. The last time my wife and I went out,

our waitperson was uniquely great. She was off-handed, friendly, attentive and genuinely funny. We enjoyed ourselves a little more, thanks to her. When the check came, we doubled it, just because, agreeing simultaneously that a 100% tip was warranted. Then, we sneaked out before she returned to pick up the folder the check was in.

Don't tell anyone here on DU, but the restaurant was Olive Garden, of all things.

Surprise!

[spanone]

13. Bravo!!!!

when i was a kid in the fifties, my mom was a 'carhop'. she worked in a restaurant on skates! outdoors. much like the sonic folks do now.

i remember what her tips meant to our poor family.

[MineralMan]

14. Well, it was fun, too.

We got the last laugh in that evening, I think.

[moonscape]

109. I was a waitress in Manhattan (the Village) in the 70's. It was

a soul food place, and every couple weeks they'd have a band downstairs and it was crazy crowded with mostly people wanting drinks and they didn't hire more wait staff, just ran us ragged.

Well, an elderly woman and her son came in and wanted to eat actually. They looked like they just came in from under a bridge - the son was awkward, challenged. Anyway, I felt really sorry for them, and was hoping they'd be able to afford their meal. They didn't order much, but I was extra kind to them thinking it must be a big deal for them to be eating out even modestly.

When they left, I found a $50!!! tip on a bill of about $15 or so. That was a lot in the 70's!

Here I am all these years later, remembering it.

I'm sure you made your wait person's day/week/month!

[athena]

9. Exactly! Good for you!

It never hurts to be generous. Often, when I get bad service, I think about what might be going on behind the scenes. In addition to problems in the kitchen or management, the server might simply be having a bad day. They might have a splitting headache. They might be working three jobs to feed their children. They might have had a huge fight with their significant other that morning. They might have lost a parent.

The bottom line is, servers are people, too. If we all practiced empathy, this country would become a much better place. And perhaps it would be contagious, so that we would once and for all stop electing narcissists and sociopaths to public office.

[Justice]

71. Ditto. I have a sibling in the restaurant biz - tipping is so important

[50 Shades Of Blue]

85. Ditto.

[wryter2000]

103. I have also gone to 20%

It only seems fair

[Jim Beard]

157. I have too because it is easier to figure.

Eating in a small town place where kinfolk is a doctor and sister is office worker. Sister told me I needed to tip more because she was a young mother and needed the money. Her husband , the Obama Care hating doctor, came in later and told me not to tip much because the girl was a welfare queen.

I don't know how how in the hell my sister got hooked up with him.

[Bettie]

108. Me too

A bit more when we had little kids with us.

[MineralMan]

145. Hmm...

I'm sorry you don't approve. I hope the rest of your day goes better...

[Pacifist Patriot]

167. That's how my husband and I do it!

[mcar]

2. K&R

[TEB]

4. Agreed

When my wife and I go out or when ran road union teamster I always tipped 15% to 20% , That is hard underpaid job.

[wishstar]

5. In today's low wage economy I give at least 20%- it means much more to them than it does to me

Burns me when well-off friends and family leave measly tips, even when service is great. Anyone who can afford to dine out, can afford a few extra buck for a tip.

[Jim Beard]

158. For me, it also depends if it is a low $ per item menu. If the bill is going to be twenty bucks

pay at least $7.00 tips

[fun n serious]

6. In fact, 15 is bare minimum

It should be more.

[athena]

12. Right. These days, 15% suggests you were not completely happy.

20% means you were happy. More than that means you were delighted.

But 10% or less means you're cheap and/or insensitive. (I don't mean you personally.)

In fact, Congress should pass a law so that tipped workers also get paid the regular minimum wage. That way, people would be able to tip as they liked. But the restaurant industry lobby opposes this. In the meantime, the only solution is for liberals to do the right thing and always tip generously.

[WinkyDink]

25. "Delighted" or not, I don't think I'm going to leave 25% of my bill as a tip. And my mother was a

waitress.

[anneboleyn]

92. I worked as a waitress. We ALWAYS leave 25%. I know what it's like to work in food service

and the unbelievable amount of mental and physical work it involves plus constant issues with customers who cross various lines -- I know our servers need and deserve a decent tip. 20% is the base standard these days (15% was the standard when I was a waitress in the 90s). So we tip 25% (and on occasions even more) regularly based on my own experiences with this incredibly difficult and draining work.

I worked in a nice, mid-level "chic/gourmet but accessible to families" type of restaurant in a wealthy area of a city when I was in college as an undergrad in the 90s. The physical labor and mental stress in addition to the amount of sexual harassment/unwanted attention from customers could be overwhelming at times. I also know what it feels like to get "stiffed" and to deal with massively demanding customers who then leave a small tip (but expect perfect service and extra attention when they come in -- we never understood these people and no one liked to wait on them). I certainly depended on that money for food and rent as otherwise I was earning only minumum wage (many of my fellow workers had families to support -- I was lucky that I was only working for myself), and I was frequently shocked by the level of callous and indifferent treatment we received from people who should have known better.

Now my husband and I can leave a good tip, and if we experience problems with our food, etc we speak to a manager. We do not EVER "stiff" servers or leave less than 25%.

[Demsrule86]

7. I tip at lest 20% and more if the service is good.

I like to give 'presents' also to wait staff during the holidays...I did this in college ...tough job and it should pay minimum wage at least plus tips.

[athena]

24. It's a very tough job.

I've never done it myself, but I had a friend who took a year off college to be a waiter at different places across the country. He's the one who taught me this lesson about tipping one time, almost 18 years ago. We went out to a restaurant with a bunch of people and had to wait two hours between the time we ordered and the time the food arrived. When the check arrived, I suggested that we not leave a tip. Everyone enthusiastically agreed. As the rest of us were leaving, I saw that my friend was taking out whatever cash he had in his pockets to leave at least a small tip. He was very upset; he said the delay was clearly the fault of the kitchen, not the servers. I left some cash, too, but the two of us didn't have enough money on us to make up for the whole party. I felt horribly guilty. I have never forgotten that lesson.

[Demsrule86]

100. Yes it is a very tough job...and if it is the kitchen and you can tell usually.

I call the manager over and complain about it but do not blame the server.

[LexVegas]

8. I've seen so-called progressives saying otherwise. nt

[Atman]

11. 15% means I tolerated your bad service.

I will tip 15% when I have a poor dining experience related to SERVICE. Your server can't do anything about a poorly prepared dish, or a long wait at the door. But if the server is inattentive, dismissive, rude, damned straight she's getting 15%. At best. Otherwise 20% is always the starting point.

[pangaia]

83. Suppose your server is a he?

[Atman]

166. Then I edit my post.

It doesn't matter in the slightest.

[H2O Man]

15. Recommended.

A week ago yesterday, after my son won the Golden Gloves, I took him and one of my daughters out to eat. Though neither my daughter or I consumed very much, my son did .....and our bill totaled $176.00. I left a 30% tip.

[panader0]

96. Huge congratulations about your son.

Heavyweight? You said he was having a tough time finding opponents.
Very cool.

[H2O Man]

98. Light heavyweight.

We're considering moving him up to cruiserweight or heavyweight. There's even less competition at cruiserweight, though.

[Horse with no Name]

16. I think that employers should have to pay living wages to all employees

I think that restaurants shouldn't be exempt from that.
The patrons shouldn't be expected to pay the wages of their employees so that they can pocket more profits.
That being said...I always tip well.
My anecdotal story is I was at a restaurant in Texarkana where the waiter spent most of his time at the table next to us talking to some nasty bigots about what a great president trump is and how great it was that the Mexicans who steal all of our wages and healthcare were going to be thrown out of the country and we were going to get our country back.
I had a response to that. I will leave it at that.

[crazycatlady]

17. I don't disagree about restaurants

However, the system today is what it is and there's no need to punish a server. If you want to go out and not leave a tip, I suggest a place like McDonald's.

As for the political conversation-- talk to the manager.

I've had poor service at restaurants before, and a conversation with the manager resulted in a free round of drinks.

[Horse with no Name]

20. Did you miss where I said "I always tip well"?

and I don't talk to managers about poor service or politics.
I simply don't return to the establishment.

[Ms. Toad]

34. I concur -

but

(1) I've spoken to many wait staff who do not want to go to straight hourly becuase they make significantly more in tips than they would make being paid hourly

(2) the system is unfair, not just becase people aren't paid a fair wage for their work (and are left dependent on the generosity of cusomters. The manner of payment has ripple effects, as well. Many tipped employees don't report all of their tips as income. In the short term they are ahead, but at retirement that practice means they will receive significantly less than they should from social security. My sister falls in this category, has no savings, and wlll be receiving the bare minimum in SS since she's never reported enough income to bump her up the scale. When you're barely scraping by, the obligation to report and pay taxes on tips seems like a cruel joke when you have to come up with the extra taxes on April 15 - so I understand why every single worker whose taxes I prepared answered "No" when I asked if they earned tipa above what was reqported on their W-2. Robbbing Peter to pay Paul makes sense at the time, and who will know? Most aren't aware of the impact the failure to pay into the SS system will have down the road (and probably couldn't afford to anyway).

(3) and until the system changes, I'll continue to leave ~20% as a tip

[Horse with no Name]

39. Totally

I have friends who work or have worked in upscale restaurants. They can bring home hundreds a night in tips...they would suffer wage losses from a minimum living wage. But then at the other end of the spectrum are people that work at Sonic who may only bring home $10 a day in tips to supplement their low wages.
I guess it would be up to the restaurant to increase wages in the upscale restaurants.
I tip also--sometimes out of guilt because the waiter doesn't deserve it...but overwhelm me? I will most assuredly overwhelm you.
The Social Security is an issue that is really important but again, I understand why they don't. Sometimes the best we can do is plan for the short-term.

[hunter]

18. My wife and I always leave 20% or more.

If service is bad it's rarely the fault of the server, and if it is, maybe they're just having a bad day (a sick kid at home, overdue rent, car problems, etc...) If the server does something completely over-the-top awful (racism, f-bomb insults, etc.,) then you talk to the manager. Simply "ignoring" you doesn't count as bad service if the place is obviously under-staffed. A single person can only do so much when they have too many tables to look after.

My wife and I both had these sorts of jobs when we were young. For a time, my sister was the stereotypical actor waiting for her big break in Hollywood, playing bit parts and working as a waitress in a well known diner. Wow, does she have stories...

It would be a wonderful thing if we had universal health care, free education, and jobs that paid comfortable living wages. It would be a wonderful thing if this sort of work was respected by all.

[Doreen]

19. The only reason I do not tip on purpose is because they were nasty and rude.

I tip no less than 20% and usually more. There are places who set it up so you can not tip unless you have cash because now that they're making $15.00 an hour is enough and tips should not be allowed ( which pisses me off. ) When I have cash I tip them also and pretty well. Unfortunately cash is something I do not usually have. I realize fully well that these people rely on tips and tips are also meant to tell them they did well.

[ZX86]

21. How about supporting a minimum wage that's a living wage!

Instead of dreaming up schemes that still make American workers depend on charity to supplement their full time employment.

Quite frankly I find this discussion sad and pathetic.

[Orrex]

26. Nice post, Mr. Pink.

[ZX86]

46. I'm not against tipping.

I'm against shitty wages. I'm against exploitation of worker's labor. I'm against people who feel good about themselves for flipping a couple of quarters at street beggars thinking they're doing something to resolve the homeless problem.

If you want to help wait staff you fight like hell for $15 minimum wage. You fight like hell to tie minimum wage to the cost of living. You fight like hell for card check and all other proposals that increase unionization.

I completely reject the Trump ("We care of our women&quot paternalistic attitude of "Here you go honey, here's a little money to help take care of your kids" instead of recognizing that all labor has value and should be afforded the dignity of a living wage from their employer with out having to depend on the fickle public to get their bills paid.

Tips are a disgusting practice invented by the wealthy class to demean and control service workers. To pretend it's anything more than that is just delusional.

[Orrex]

57. You'd be hard pressed to find someone on DU who's opposed to a living wage

And the great majority of us are aware that tipping is, at its root, a holdover from racist wage practices intended to spare white restaurant owners from the indignity of treating black workers like human beings.

Tips are a disgusting practice invented by the wealthy class to demean and control service workers. To pretend it's anything more than that is just delusional.

Well no shit, and aren't you special for pointing out a fact known to everyone!

Until the living wage is a reality, then it's worthwhile to discuss the importance of tipping. Your smug dismissal of the topic as "sad and pathetic" suggested that you are, in fact, opposed to tipping and that you've somehow achieved some grand enlightenment beyond the rest of us. If you want to make a grand statement about the racist/classist history of tipping, maybe you could choose some way to do it that isn't insulting to people who are simply trying to help.

[Sunlei]

69. I agree. ALL Americas workers should 'at least' get Federal minimum wage. Exceptions are wrong.

That goes for prison workers as well. Thats another group of Americas workers who don't get the Federal minimum wage. Not even close.

$7.25 an hour, as pathetic as Fed. minimum wage is, it's better than $2.25 for food servers or 20 cents an hour for prison workers.

[kcr]

151. You are absolutely right that it is better to fight for a living wage.

Some people who make your point will use this to rationalize going to restaurants and not tipping. That is not the answer. That does nothing to advocate for real wages and only serves to support the restaurant owners while stiffing the workers. If you absolutely must eat at a restaurant, you have to tip regardless of how you feel about the system.

[still_one]

37. 15 dollar minimum wage is not a livable wage and many small businesses cannot afford more and still

stay In business

Also, tipping is NOT chairity. It is for the server, and understood to be part of the salary

Many restaurants the servers pool their tips, and divide it among themselves

[ZX86]

52. If you can't run a business with out ripping off your workers

you don't belong in business. Funny how only that burden falls on primarily female workers. If some restaurant can't afford to pay rent or supplies they don't get to short pay their landlord or suppliers. But if you're a single mom let's devise a system where your salary is not guaranteed and codify it into our culture.

The system is anti-worker and anti-woman by design.

[still_one]

55. I take it you don't like to tip, and also have never run a small restaurant. Just because you want

something a certain way doesn't mean it will happen tomorrow

So until we develop a European type wage scale I hope you continue to tip

[ZX86]

91. No you are wrong. Very wrong.

The issue is not whether I like to tip. The issue is employers paying a living wage. I go out of my way to patronize companies that don't exploit their workers. To turn this into a discussion of my personal tipping habits is silly. It would be like saying I must hate Southeast Asians because I oppose sweatshop labor practices.

Tipping treats the symptom of shitty low wages but does nothing to cure the problem. If you really care about low wage occupations filled primarily by women you will fight like hell for $15 minimum wage and tying it to the cost of living.

The idea that an occupation that's primarily filled by women get taxed on earnings that may or may not exist, that receivers of service have an option not to pay, where the worker that's physically attractive or flirts more gets paid more is disgusting.

[Orrex]

77. Funny how that works...

If the rate for electricity goes up, the business owner can't simply say "I won't pay."

If the cost of inventory goes up, the business owner can't simply say "I won't pay."

But when it comes to payroll, we defer to the poor business owner because this is the expense that will kill the business, so we must starve the workers. Don't worry, though! The taxpayer will get to subsidize the employer's payroll expenses through public assistance.

Well tough shit. If your business can't pay its employees a decent wage, then you don't deserve to own a business.

And if your business isn't paying its employees a decent wage, then you aren't employing them; you're exploiting them.

[ZX86]

99. Thank you!

If you can't afford to pay for the services (labor) and supplies of your business you have a bad business model. It's funny how the same people who howl endlessly about the free marketplace, winners and losers, and how success is not guaranteed, only opportunity, have this giant blind spot when it comes to paying wages. Especially if those wages are being paid to women or minorities.

[Egnever]

141. Anyone that considers a voluntary donation as a part of the salary

does not have a real understanding of what a salary is.

Heres an idea if the tip is essential lets just add it to the bill. Why pretend?

[still_one]

142. I guess that the IRS doesn't have a real understanding about wages then

Also, some restaurants do add it in, though currently it is usually if you have a minimum number of people being served

[Egnever]

160. Are you trying to imply the IRS standing on tips is realistic?

First I remember when tips weren't subject to the IRS as they still remain in many positions such as valet's.

Some folks make out like bandit's if you are seriously considering tipping as something that should be taxed and I am sure there are some that are getting shafted. On average I would bet you most make much more than they are taxed.

Regardless I find the idea of taxing tips distasteful period. That said if there was any argument to be made that one should tip no matter what then I would have to say the fact that the employee is taxed as if you filled no matter what would be the only one that I would find reasonable.

If tipping is mandatory it is time.to actually include it in the wage and be done with it. If it is actually meant to be a reward for good service then the argument it is mandatory holds no merits unless you consider the taxation. In that case again it should be an actual wage and not at the whim of a stranger's kindness. Failing that then I would argue the amount you actually should tip a horrible waiter would be equal to the amount of his/her taxes. Not 15%

[still_one]

163. First of all I never said what the IRS does is realistic, fair, or anything else.

I simple stated the fact that the IRS considers tips to servers as taxable income, and there are reporting rules for such.

This has been the case for quite some time, long before I was working and paying taxes, for example:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i1040--1950.pdf

For places where auto-gratuity, mandatory-tipping occurs, usually on parties of six or more at some places, those are considered as non-tip wages.

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html

It isn't that I agree or disagree, or how people actually report their tips to the IRS, the point is the law considers it as taxable income.

We can all believe that people should be paid a livable wage, and that tips shouldn't be required, but that isn't going to change the practice of the way things are done here currently.

This isn't Europe, so most realize they should be tipping their server

[athena]

38. The law is what it is. Undertipping because you think the law is bad is hypocritical.

As I said in my OP, the current minimum wage for tipped workers is extremely low. The restaurant lobby has repeatedly scuttled efforts to increase it or to make it the same as the regular minimum wage. As long as that is the case, the only respectable thing to do is to tip generously.

A tip is not charity. Given the current system, it is part of the cost of the meal. That is why I consider it theft not to systematically pay at least a 15% tip. If you really believe everyone deserves a living wage, then you will tip well. Complaining about the low living wage and then not tipping well, while criticizing those who say you should tip well, is the height of hypocrisy.

[ZX86]

63. Again. I'm not against tipping.

I tip generously. I also give money to people on the street. The difference is I don't kid myself into to thinking I'm helping alleviate homelessness.

Tipping is a horrid system. It's not fair. It cheats and demeans labor done primarily by women. The fact that it's even an issue discussed here tells you that it's wrong.

[athena]

105. OK. I misunderstood.

I was not implying that tipping alleviates homelessness or poverty. It's rather that not tipping, or undertipping, makes things worse and is a form of theft.

I agre with you about how unfair and classist the system of tipping is. I would much rather have a system like the one in Japan, where servers make a fair wage, and tipping is considered an insult. But given that the system is what it is, and given that many people seem to use it to punish people for not treating them like royalty, it's important that liberals, at least, be informed and tip generously.

[ZX86]

112. Thanks for understanding.

And I was not implying that you thought tipping alleviates homelessness. I was trying to make an analogy between treating a symptom and curing a problem.

[lostnfound]

129. And shocking. I knew they made a little less but that's ridiculous

This country spends too much time being told by GOP politicians to feel sorry for small businesses and nothing at all about waitresses.

[smirkymonkey]

22. Thank YOU!

I appreciate your post. I am no longer a server, but I was in summers during my college days and I relied on those tips to pay my rent and bills.

Because of that experience I always tip 20% or more unless the actual service itself was abysmal. And by that I mean rude, woefully neglectful or otherwise very sub-par. Even then, I will still tip. I have rarely had terrible service so it isn't something that comes up very often for me.

[athena]

32. I've had to learn this lesson myself.

I told the story in post #24 above. I am very ashamed of it, but in my defense, I was young and clueless back then. Ever since that incident, I have always tipped at least 15%, usually 20% or more.

What is amazing is the level of nastiness servers put up with, and how most of them nonetheless manage to provide such consistently good service in spite of that.

[smirkymonkey]

146. Yes, funny how many people use the excuse "Well, maybe the service wasn't very good."

Without stopping to consider the fact that they might have been a nightmare of a party and the poor server was on his/her last legs and had a hard time putting up with them.

[Yonnie3]

23. Tips were unusual and for exceptional service in the UK

I would leave money (~20%) and have the server follow me to the door to return it.

After a week at a motor inn in South Wales, I would seek out the bar/restaurant manager and give her a sizeable tip and say that I'd had exceptional service and would she please distribute this among her staff and let them know I was pleased. I observed her immediately go to the front desk to get change, so I'm reasonably sure it was distributed.

This was more than 20 years ago. Things may have changed.

I would prefer restaurants pay a reasonable wage to their staff by raising prices, instead of putting it on the customers. I recall seeing some articles about a few restaurants doing this.

[emulatorloo]

27. Thank you so much for posting this.

Your first part is especially spot on.

Recently went to a restaurant where staff was struggling with a dinner crowd.

Why? Because management stupidly sent half the waiters and waitresses home because their was a half hour lull before the rush.

Also, it was a Steak Restaurant and the kitchen had run out of baked potatoes. Again another management screw up.

Wait staff were put in a terrible situation by poor decision made by management.

[BSdetect]

28. Tippng is insulting in a few cultures / countries.

Western Samoa was one such place. Not sure about enighboring American Samoa.

Australia has a very good minimum wage too. Tipping is optional as a valid bouns for great service etc

Places ought to pay people decent living wages.

I hate having to tip but do so usually at 25%.

Restaurants here can buy food very cheaply and they already mark up plenty. I'm sure they could afford to raise prices slightly and pay wages that eliminate tipping.

[athena]

30. In case I wasn't clear, I am talking specifically about the U.S.

In Japan, tipping is insulting. And most if not all European countries pay servers a living wage, so that tipping becomes optional. In fact, in Switzerland, leaving a very large tip can seem like showing off. But in the U.S., not tipping, or tipping less than 15%, really hurts the server and is, in my opinion, a form of theft.

I agree that it's annoying to have to tip rather than have the cost of the service included in the bill, but that's the system we have in the U.S., and the restaurant lobby will make sure it remains that way for a long time.

[Kimchijeon]

29. Husband and I always tip 20-30% minimum, you just have to factor it into your meal cost

Or delivery driver tip cost. It's just part of the shitty system and you have to suck it up.
If you can't "afford" it, then frankly you should just go get some cheap shit from the dollar section of the grocery store and eat that, because you can't afford to "eat out" or get delivery.

All the more reason to mandate a higher minimum wage for all workers. It's not fair that service workers are treated with less rights and dignity.

Until that changes, you just have to add that extra amount onto whatever your meal/delivery cost is. That's just your total cost.
THEN, if something is extra amazing/special, add more.

Example: We love our local pizza place. It's usually 20-24$ for food. We always do 7$ at least for tip included, but more if warranted or just because (like crummy weather, a holiday, something special- then 10-20$)

I hate hearing people whine "that's so expensive"...yeah, eating out or ordering delivery is a fuckin' treat. Don't treat service people like garbage. Because frankly, if you are in the income bracket where tipping properly financially hurts you, then you are in the same boat as that service person and should feel some damn empathy!

[Kittycow]

35. We always tip 20% or more.

We didn't start tipping delivery drivers until about five years ago. We thought that it wasn't part of the transaction.

But now we tend to be extra generous to delivery drivers because we like the feels when the driver is surprised and delighted. We can afford it and we realize now that they have a thankless job.

I always tell them that we're all in this together!

ETA : here in good ol' Oregon, tipped employees make state minimum wage of 9.75 or something like that. It's going up on July 1 . $2.13 an hour is unconscionable.

[still_one]

31. I tip a minimum of 20%, but you are wrong if the service is bad you should still tip?

Only one time that happened to me, and that was when the server was rude to me and my family.

[phylny]

33. I always tip st least 20%.

More if it's breakfast or an inexpensive meal.

[Ms. Toad]

36. Thank you for separating this from the thread that seemed designed

solely to bash a former Democratic candidate for president. It's a discussion we need to have periodically here.

Can you do one more favor, please, and wipe out the last line of your op? That line pulls a good discussion back into rehashing the primary when there's no reason to connect this conversation to the other one (or to the primaries) at all.

[athena]

40. I disagree with you.

There is nothing wrong with that thread. The poster has a right to describe her experiences and feelings.

If you see something political in my OP, it is in your eyes only. I am not going to change the last line because you insist on reading something into it that is not there. Note that I did not link to the thread in question. You are the one turning this discussion political by referring to that thread. I think you should delete your post so that this discussion remains about what it is meant to be about: tipping. If you do so, I will delete this post, as well.

[Ms. Toad]

43. What does who you supported in the primary have to do with tipping?

All that line does does is turn a good discussion into an invitation to rehash the primaries.

But if you want to bargain about deleting posts, if you delete the reference to the presidential primary, I'll delete my post asking you to delete it.

[athena]

45. It is meant to bring people together.

Whether we are Bernie supporters or Hillary supporters, we can all agree that tipping generously is in accordance with our beliefs as liberals.

I am sorry you cannot see that. And I am annoyed that you are so focused on your beloved candidate that you had to take this perfectly good discussion and turn it into something about him.

Good bye. You are going on my ignore list.

[Ms. Toad]

123. I'm not making about "my beloved candidate"

I don't have a "beloved candidate." I have been alerting and voting to hide posts made by people supporting both primary candidates who have been vigorously attempting to relitigate the primary - and bash former candidates.

I'm suggesting that whenever you intentionally tie an issue that has nothing to do with any candidate to who you supportd in the primary, the effect is to stir up angst about the primary (whether you consciously intended that or not). I"m sorry you are so fixated on the candidate you supported that you can't see that.

[athena]

49. It must be nice to be someone who never makes mistakes.

After all, if you're so angry at servers for making the smallest of mistakes, then you must be someone who never makes mistakes yourself. I thought to err was human, but I see now that I was wrong: there are some people who are -- or at least think -- they're perfect.

Welcome to DU.

ETA: I have never been a server, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to lecture me about how I failed to serve you according to your demands.

[uppityperson]

50. "Stop lying"? You sound like you've a personal grudge going on here. What's with that?

[Kittycow]

59. Calm down. Good Lord.

ETA: the post was removed. One of the most unfair and petty tirades I have ever seen.

[crazycatlady]

66. Well known troll

If you google the screen name, this person exists to troll forums about how they hate servers.

[Kittycow]

76. Oh thanks.

Such anger with that one. If it was true, the servers might have been doing the so-called sins just to fuck with that person for being an asshole.

[crazycatlady]

78. google the screen name

I recognize it from other forums. She appears only to talk about how horrible servers are.

(Springs131 or Springs1).

[Kittycow]

86. Yeah I did right after your initial reply.

I see she was busy on one of my favorite sub-Reddits. She must have ulcers and high blood pressure by now.

[EllieBC]

139. Damn I remember someone with that name from Babycenter.

And she was always freaking out about alleged bad service!

[crazycatlady]

140. same person

I remember her from other forums.

I also remember that she likes her mozerella sticks with ranch dressing.

[tammywammy]

144. More likely ranch dressing with some mozzarella sticks.

[EllieBC]

164. Found it!

https://community.babycenter.com/post/a28964151/why_is_restaurant_service_soooo_bad_today

[athena]

79. That was so weird.

With the additional information you've helpfully provided, it's ... even more weird.

[pnwmom]

72. It seems very strange that you've had so many bad experiences with wait staff.

I'd think you had just had bad luck with your choice of restaurants, except this happens SO OFTEN with you. Eight times that they've forgotten to get bar drinks from the bar. Wow.

Or maybe there's a reason you so frequently get dissatisfactory service that has little to do with the particular server.

P.S. If you know you're in a hurry, tell the server at the outset when you have to be out of there. Otherwise, enjoy your outing with your spouse.

If you can.

[Kittycow]

95. It was a copy/paste off of a Reddit rant of her's.

Blech

[MrScorpio]

42. Because I'm math deficient, so I usually tip 20%

Take 10% and multiply that by two.

[athena]

44. That's what I do, as well, although I'm not math deficient.

I'm a physicist by training, and doing what you suggest is in fact the way mathematical people -- or at least physicists -- think.

[usedtobedemgurl]

48. I was a waitress and I disagree with this thread.

I have worked, as a waitress, in a pizza joint as well as T.G.I.Fridays. I know what it is like to be tipped and I know what it is like to be doubly stiffed. Doubly stiffed? Yes! When someone does not give a tip and you are expected to a certain percentage of your full bill for the day with bus boys and the hostess. When I am stiffed, that money came out of my pocket.

I have also been a mystery shopper for restaurants for over twenty years so I know what to look for and who is to blame for what. Sometimes you can squarely put the blame on the waitress. For instance, I have had several waitresses that have taken our order without writing down a single thing I order. When the steak comes to me well done, instead of rare, I always send it back. It usually comes out right the second time. Then I look at the check and see the waitress who did not write down my order put the steak down as well done. Well, that is definitely her fault and why would she not write down an order for a table of five?

If I am falling short on drink and I ordered something spicy, I have been known to look around and see how many tables are filled versus how many people are working. Sometimes I will get up and refill my drink if I am close enough and the drink machine is in full view. Sometimes I wait and let my food get cold if no one is near for me to flag them down. When the waitress comes back and smells of cigarette smoke, that ticks me off. I suffered and did without because you wanted a smoke break? Have someone cover your tables.

Look, I am the type of person who went the extra mile for my tables. One table, of another waitress, wanted sausage and we had none. I drove over to McDonald's and got sausage! (a 2 minute drive) I understand barely making ends meet and I recommend "Nickled And Dimed" to anyone who will listen. I just do not believe that if someone gives me attitude or clearly bad service, I should tip them 15% of the bill. I also write on the receipt and let the person know why I tipped poorly.

As an aside, there have been two times in my life when I have not tipped a pizza delivery guy. Both times I had ordered a pizza, before, and the place got it wrong and sent out another pizza to me. I already feel that they charge through the roof to have a pizza delivered and then tell you tip is not included. So if I get a $10 any size, any topping, pizza from Pizza Hut and I am paying two to three dollars in delivery fees and I add in a five for tip, that $10 pizza turned into about $18. Then if I tipped the next delivery guy who brought me the fixed product, that now turns into a $23 pizza. You may say I could go pick up the new pizza but most of the time I order and almost pay double, the first time, is because I am in chronic pain and cannot always get out my door.

You may disagree and that is your right. This is how I feel and what I feel is right. If it helps, on good service I may tip anywhere from 20% on up. I once tipped a $100 on a $23 check. I believe in tipping, but not when it is clearly the wait person's fault.

[matt819]

70. Points well taken. But . . .

My daughter is a server, and I have been regaled with many, many tales of good and bad tipping, as well as server conflict, tipping out to the bus staff, etc.

All of your points are well taken, but dining out shouldn't really involve all that much thought about the server, the host, the busing staff, etc. and now we have the issue of some restaurants going to non-tip format, which adds to the complexity. I think if you just assume 20% from the outset, and then adjust accordingly based on service, that's more than enough thought for the dining experience. This is not to minimize all of the issues you raise, but really all I want is a meal that someone else cooks and servers. I don't really want to think too much more about it.

[athena]

74. To err is human. To empathize is also human.

My point was that most servers don't make the regular minimum wage. This is a problem is with the law. The law really should mandate that everyone, including tipped staff, get a minimum wage, and that this minimum wage is a living wage. When you undertip a server because you're unhappy with the level of service you got, you are taking away what should rightfully be theirs, which is a proper wage.

If you lived in France rather than in the United States, what you wrote would be completely reasonable. In France, servers earn a proper wage, so that the tip is really a way of rewarding them for excellent service. In the United States, however, the tip is part of a server's basic salary.

Just because you did a great job as a server does not mean everyone else must do as great a job or should be punished. That is Republican-style thinking. According to liberal thought, the fact that you did a great job or worked hard while someone else made mistakes or didn't work as hard doesn't mean that person should starve or not get health care, etc. It is by pitting us against each other that the Republican Party wins. The server who didn't provide excellent service is not the enemy. It is the hedge-fund CEO who makes $400,000 an hour (yes, an hour), and those who want to reduce his taxes while underpaying servers, who are the enemy.

[pnwest]

102. Everything you said - right here. I have 18 years in the

restaurant industry. I, too, know when a bad restaurant experience is the server's fault or due to circumstances out of his/her control, and tip accordingly. I start with the assumption that good service will get 20%. But I have NO problem with stiffing a server if they completely muck up the whole experience, especially when it's clear they just don't care. Sometimes when I got stiffed, I'd wonder if they just plain forgot to tip. So, to make it clear I meant to stiff 'em, I'll leave a quarter on the table.

And, sometimes, even if the server is responsible for the muck-up, if they are apologetic and own up to it and seem genuinely concerned, I'll still tip them 10-15% for their effort at making it right. But if they screw up and don't give a damn about it, they'll get zero money from me. They won't learn that actually caring about a customer's dining experience is what matters, if they get tipped for shitty service.

I know whether my food is late because the kitchen messed up, or the server is so in the weeds they can't get to the kitchen to pick up my food, or if they're out back smoking while my food is dying in the window. And I tip accordingly.

Everyone who gets into waiting tables knows the pay is shitty, so blaming the law is not really helpful. Waiting tables is about providing a certain dining experience. And the server either understands that or they don't. If the server just wants to take orders and be paid minimum wage, they need to work at a fast food joint. If a server understands that selling food is just PART of the job, they can make serious bank. I did, cause I was entertaining, genuinely gave a shit whether people enjoyed their evening, and have mad skillz at upselling.

When you go to a travel agency, or computer store, you want a salesperson who is knowledgable, skilled at listening to your needs, and steers you in the right direction for the best purchase to meet your needs. You want a food server to do the same thing - be knowledgeable about the menu, about wines, and whether you want an evening of fun, lively banter - or to be served quietly because you're having a romantic evening...you want a skilled, knowledgable server. And if the server has taken the time to learn how to be skilled, they deserve highest compensation for it. Lackadaisical, uninformed computer salesmen will lead me to go elsewhere to buy, and shitty service will do the same.

[athena]

107. I think you meant to reply to the post I replied to, not to my post.

We disagree on this. I don't believe it's right to underpay workers for making mistakes or not being exceptionally good. If a worker is not competent enough to do the job, they should be let go, and that is up to the management. Keeping them on, but not paying them, is not an option and should be illegal. And that is what you're doing when you stiff a server.

[anneboleyn]

93. I was a waitress, and we never leave less then 25% (post above). Most customers blame

the servers for problems that are out of our control. You may know better but the majority of the customers do not and people tend to abuse and undertip.

[kcr]

155. Just about every other job, people get paid even when they make mistakes and have bad days.

Because bills still need to get paid. Kids still need to be fed and have a roof over their heads. If everyone got their pay docked every time they took a smoke break when they shouldn't have, or had a bad day because their wife left them and struggled through the day, or had a migraine. etc. Then this country never could have built the middle class it did. No sector should have to be singled out the way wait staff are.

I appreciate your points because I can sense the pride you took in your job. I believe you when you say you did a good job and yu should be proud. But that pride stands on its own. It doesn't need an outdated and punishing pay system to back it up. Wait staff need a living wage just like everyone else. That's why the OP is right. People should tip well every time because that's the wait staff's paycheck.

[athena]

53. If you're not a voter and don't care about politics, DU is not the place for you.

This is Democratic Underground. It is a forum for Democrats. You seem to be in the wrong place. I think you will eventually realize that.

[mac56]

56. Do enjoy your stay here.

[Orrex]

60. I look forward to years of positive contributions by that poster.

[tammywammy]

73. If you google the username and tipping

This is apparently their shtick. I swear I've seen the copy & paste list above before.

[hrmjustin]

54. I rarely go out to eat but I think it is the law to tip 15% in NYC.

[former9thward]

195. There is no law in NYC on tipping.

[matt819]

57. Done

I tip 20%. Maybe 15% if there are issues with the service. Never less than that. More than 20% if the bill is low, like just eggs and coffee at a diner kind of thing.

[airplaneman]

61. My rule is $5 or 20% whatever is more.

And I tip at Hometown Buffet - which most people do not.
-Airplane

[Grown2Hate]

65. Ah, good point. If I get one beer at a bar, I'm not going to leave JUST 20%. EOM

[crazycatlady]

115. I tip at least $1 per drink at the bar

More if it is a fancy cocktail. But for a beer, $1 each.

[Grown2Hate]

62. 100% agreed. I do hate to see that business get away with paying a paltry $2.13 an hour for

their labor, but, if I'm going to a restaurant/bar, I'm buying into the premise. 20% is my bare minimum if you are a LOUSY server (the ONLY thing that would change this for me is blatant racism or far-right political rants, which I've yet to encounter from a server luckily).

If you can't afford to figure this in to your bill, don't bother going out to a restaurant for food (IMHO, anyhow).

[usedtobedemgurl]

64. By the way, I always used to note when our kitchen ran slow.....

That was usually on Saturday afternoons at T.G.I.Friday's. And when I knew we were running slow, I would greet the tables with, "Hi! My name is ______, and welcome to T.G.I.Friday's. We are busy and running a little behind today. The food is coming out after approximately 45 minutes. I thought this was something you should know. If you are in a hurry, I can point you towards things that would facilitate you getting out faster. I can make salads and the soups are ready made. Can I get you a Coke or Sprite to start off you meal?" They always made us suggest actual drinks because that suggestion got more orders and sometimes changes folks mind from ordering water.

Even if some things seem to be out of the wait person's control, there are things they can do to still help the customer and a LOT of my customers were thankful that I disclosed things such as that to them.

[askyagerz]

67. Sorry but if a waiter or waitress can't do the simplest things

I'm not giving them %15. If someone comes take my order with an attitude then I don't see them for the rest of the meal while my glass sits empty on the side of the table then sorry its just not happening. My girlfriend was a waitress for years and she agrees. They need to do their damn job at least halfway right just like everyone else.

[Luciferous]

68. I tip 20-30 percent depending on the service. I've done a lot of work in food service

and sympathize with anyone who has to work with customers

[matt819]

75. Actually, tipping is political in some ways

Actually, tipping is political in some ways we've all seen accounts on the Internet of diners stiffing servers because of their political association or their sexual orientation or for something they have no control over. And in many cases we eventually learn that the stiffers are more often than not Republicans.

Republicans have a fairly well documented attitude of contempt for those less fortunate and for those in the service industry. Republicans are not pushing for $15 an hour minimum wage. The attitude by Republicans is that if you're going to work a serving job well, that's your problem. If you want to pay more, get a better job. Democrats do in fact have more empathy for those on the lower end of the economic spectrum. So, yes, tipping is kind of political. But that's kind of the point of the OP. If you just go ahead with 20%, with a minimum of 15%, you will have done the right thing and you really don't have to get political and you don't really have to think much more about your meal.

[athena]

90. That is very well explained!

Tipping is political, in that tipping generously is something liberals will tend to believe in, and something conservatives will tend to disagree with. As liberals, we believe everyone who works deserves to make a respectable living. We also believe everyone is equal and that the diner is not more important or more valuable than the server: both are human and have the right to be treated with respect, dignity, and fairness.

But on DU, it's not political because we're all Democrats. Regardless of our small disagreements, we can all agree that tipping well is the right thing to do.

[redstatebluegirl]

80. I used to wait tables in college so we tip a minimum of 20 percent.

However, I want eating and drinking establishments to pay a living wage without tips. So many douchebags don't tip it makes waiting tables a horrible way to make a living. the best dressed customers I had tipped the worst and treated me the worst.

Pay a living wage, get rid of tips.

[LittleGirl]

81. When I was a waitress

the pay was 2.01 an hour + tips. I did this for nearly 5 yrs and some of the restaurants I worked at made us tip the bus boys out of those tips and they made minimum wage! That really hurt the bottom line for me. My weekly paychecks after tax deductions and medical was 0. Sometimes, it was in the minus column.

One couple I waited on, bolted and didn't pay for their meal and the manager nearly had my neck for it. I was so upset that I went to the hotel behind the restaurant and asked if this couple were staying there like they told me. They were not so the manager let me go on paying for their meal. It was a week night and would have cleaned me out and more to pay for their meal. I suggested that the manager not have the closing waitress have the station for their customers furthest away from the kitchen and also that maybe not give us so many clean up chores before we could punch out (also on 2.01 an hour). At the time, the minimum wage was 3.35 an hour and that was 30 yrs ago.

In fact, that's where I learned my team worker attitude and can-do service provider levels that I come to expect.

[athena]

94. What a horrible story!

I saw servers talking about $0 paychecks elsewhere online, and I didn't know what they were referring to. Now I get it. It sounds like your restaurant was one of the ones that break the 83.8% that break the law. They are supposed to make up the difference so that you get minimum wage after the tips, but as you've attested, most don't.

[LittleGirl]

143. Well, that was 30 yrs AGO

so it may have changed since then. When they speak of 0 paychecks that's because we REPORT our tips based on the sales of the day/night shift you worked. So everyday you had to get a total of what you "sold" and report 8% in tips whether you made that much or NOT. That's how it worked back then. I don't know about now.

I had to literally live off the cash/tips I got. I would go to the bank with wads of money (I hate carrying cash now) and pay my bills that way. I wrote checks for everything. My rent was 200 a month for a one room studio and I had a car to pay for. I scraped by and medical co-pays were non-existent back then. But who could afford to go to the doctor? You don't work, you don't get paid. Every weekend of my life from 16-25 were working weekends. I rarely got a vacation and if I did, I didn't get paid for it. That life is rough and I'll never forget how hard it was. I'm very grateful for not having to do that now.

[Warpy]

82. Service has to be downright hostile and it has to be clearly the server's fault

before I lower the tip from 20%.

However, many years ago, 10% was standard. It has gone upward as purchasing power from wages has declined. Servers can no longer survive on 10% tips. They're barely hanging on at 20%.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

84. K & R

[mountain grammy]

87. Went out to dinner last evening..

one of the loveliest servers I've ever encountered.. the bar was slow, but we left a 50% tip

[aikoaiko]

88. I tip 10% when its takeout.

I do have a Black female co-worker who tips 10% or less if she thinks the waitstaff acted differently toward me (white male). We trade off paying for lunch. I'm not going to tell her she needs to tip 15% in those situations.

[Runningdawg]

89. Both my husband and I, at times have depended on tips

and we are both in agreement on tipping. 10% minimum, thats for REALLY bad service. 15% for average service and 20% and up for above average service. We went out to eat last weekend for a special occasion at a fine dining establishment, where we have previously had outstanding service. Within the first 10 minutes we had drinks, appetizers, bread and salads on the table! 5 minutes later our entrees arrived. At that point the atmosphere was ruined. We asked for the check and to go boxes and ate our meal at home. Its our shared opinion that giving a diner the bums rush is as bad as waiting 20 minutes to see a server.

[OnlinePoker]

97. I wish I could afford to eat out more than once a year.

I factor 15% into how much I can spend.

[lame54]

101. $5 dollar minimum...

a waitress who serves you your $10 breakfast works as hard as one who works at a fancy expensive restaurant

15% of $10 is only $1.50

[YOHABLO]

104. The one thing I do know with my 20+years experience in waiting. Dealing with the public

is a very difficult job. People shouldn't have to rely on tips to make a living. It's a crap shoot every day/night. You just can't count on making $100 or $50 each day/night. I worked in the high end restaurants. One of which I worked for 17 years. A lot of politics are at play between the Maitre d' and the waiters. If he likes you, you get seated, or seated with the ''high rollers'', if he has a problem with you, it's grandma and grandpa or a couple with an obnoxious kid. Although kids are uncommon in high end restaurants. I know some waiters who actually pay the Maitre d' to seat them with the creme de la creme customers. It can be a very unfair system, you see. So remember that the next time you saunter in to Le Cirque or the Russian Tea Room, you're being profiled. So dress well.

[athena]

111. My spouse and I don't dress well, but we tip well.

I kind of like the idea of frustrating the efforts of a Maitre d' who is trying to bully a server. We rarely go to the really high-end places, though. It's usually all incredibly pretentious and makes us uncomfortable on top of just being too expensive.

I didn't know about this phenomenon, but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing.

[liberal N proud]

106. The expression on the waitress face yesterday spoke volumes

We were in a popular restaurant and it was quite busy.
I saw the waitress face as she picked up the signed check at the next table. The only thing I could think from the look on her face was that she either was stiffed on the tip or it was really bad one.
She was also our server and there was nothing about her service that didn't warrant anything below 20%

People don't realize what those tip mean for these people.

[bitterross]

110. I generally tip 20% Even at Lunch

I know those are low paid workers. Unless the server does something egregious they're going to get 20% from me.

[JI7]

113. how about in California where minimum wage is required ?

[athena]

114. I don't know. I wonder if there are DUers who work as servers in California?

It would be interesting to find out how they feel.

[athena]

118. I'm supposed to believe a man's personal opinion over actual statistics?

What you claim about men being likely to tip female servers better is not only wrong, but it is incredibly naive. Did you even bother to read the OP? Or do I have to repeat it for you?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2014/02/17/tipping-system-exacerbates-unfairness-restaurant-pay/XqPSy4UgwgYjhoMWWufzsO/story.html

Women, who make up about 73 percent of tipped workers, are disproportionately harmed. Waitresses in some gritty bars and grills say they feel compelled to flirt with customers and laugh at offensive jokes just to preserve their income. Even then, they earn an average of $0.50 less per hour than male tipped workers, government statistics show. Doing away with the tipped minimum and giving these women a steadier paycheck would be the quickest way to restore their dignity.

Sexual harassment is a great thing, isn't it? Especially when you refer to it as "sex appeal" and argue that it's only the natural order of things.

Tipping is not going to be eliminated until the restaurant lobby decides it wants it eliminated -- i.e., never.

[athena]

126. Not all statistics are manipulated.

Statistics is a branch of mathematics. Without it, we wouldn't have science. In fact, we wouldn't be able to know anything without statistics. When statistics indicate that waitresses make less than waiters, I see no reason to suspect manipulation. It's a simple statement.

As for servers not paying tax on their tip income, once again this is anecdotal. Although I strongly believe in taxes and do not condone tax evasion, this is precisely why tipping should be abolished and servers should be paid at least the regular minimum wage. I am not going to undertip a server because I have heard from someone that they don't pay taxes on their tip income. Whether they obey the law is their business, not mine.

Finally, it is counterproductive to aim one's ire at poorly-paid servers when the top hedge-fund managers are making $400,000 an hour and taking advantage of huge tax breaks. If you want to be upset about people evading taxes, read Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston. Hint: it is not the poor who are engaging in the worst forms of tax evasion; it is the wealthy.

[NobodyHere]

117. I'll probably get flak for this

But I'm not a big fan of the tipping business model and will avoid any business where I am expected to tip.

[athena]

119. What?

I think you forgot a "not" somewhere.

[NobodyHere]

120. Doh!

Apparently I'm not a fan of coherent posts either

[athena]

122. LOL.

I hear you, but it's a little difficult to avoid restaurants, hotels, taxicabs, and hairdressers. If it were easy, we could all boycott such establishments until they got rid of tipping and instituted a fair wage.

[madokie]

124. We're a 20% tipper

at the least. Years ago I worked a couple jobs where my income depended on tips and I've never forgotten that.

[Freethinker65]

125. We tip a minimum of 15% of bill before alcohol and taxes

That is for subpar service (usually neglect when the place is not even busy). We hardly ever order drinks, but the bar tab can be super-inflated here. We always tip at least a few dollars per order (for 2) at the bar. Normally we tip between 18 and 20% of the final bill including the tax (which can be over 10% in the Chicago area).

[Mosby]

127. I dont like the tipping system

I think restaurant owners should pay the employees, not the customers.

[athena]

132. No argument there. But the system is the way it is, and we have to live with that.

I don't think anyone likes to tip. But not tipping, or undertipping, is not the way to deal with that.

There are some restaurants that are trying to abolish tips by paying all their workers a fair wage. One can try to change the system by choosing such restaurants. But if you're at a regular restaurant, you have to tip, or you're taking away someone's income.

[still_one]

135. Exactly.

[Major Nikon]

193. The way to not just live with it is to go elsewhere

Such as the other choices you mentioned or just cook at home. Pretty much everywhere else in the world it doesn't work that way. Furthermore in some restaurants tips go to almost all employees rather than just the waitstaff, which means the other workers also get screwed. Lots of people just don't ever tip at all which means responsible people are effectively subsidizing the psychopaths' service. More people should be aware of just how flawed the system is and that it just doesn't have to be that way. I don't tip my airline pilot or doctor. Neither should I bear the burden of paying my server directly. Waitservice is a profession and the workers should be treated as professionals. Nobody should have to rely on tips for income.

[taught_me_patience]

130. When minimum wage goes to $15 in 2021, I'll stop tipping n/t

[still_one]

134. you are being sarcastic, right?

[samnsara]

131. i always tip generously.. once i forgot.....

...to even leave a tip ( I was going to leave it at the front counter on the way out)...I got distracted. Anyway I thought of that poor waitress for a long time after. We were traveling so I didn't even remember the name of the restaurant...nor the waitress so I couldn't even mail it in.

[athena]

147. Everyone makes mistakes.

That's how we learn to do better or be more careful, etc. See post #24 above for my own horrible mistake that taught me to do better.

[Hoyt]

136. Having worked for tips, I almost always tip more than 20%. Although, don't eat out often.

Would never penalize server for poor food, etc. If the restaurant sucks, it's probably even worse on the server. Even if it is clearly servers fault, I usually figure it's just a bad day.

[janlyn]

138. I worked many years

in food service,I know when something is or is not the servers fault. I will not tip minimum of 15% if the server is at fault. That is rewarding them for bad service. Very rarely have I not tipped,most servers work very hard.

[fescuerescue]

148. Appreciate the spirit of this post but I reject absoutes

I almost always tip at least 20%. I do it because I feel good giving back, I like helping and it I'm fortunate enough to note notice an impact in my budget.

But there are exceptions. Just last week I had dinner with my mom and her sister and the waitress as downright rude, incompetent and beligerent. I did not tip her. She was even given a chance to improve her service midway after we made a minor complaint. Instead the service got worse.

[athena]

149. This is what I disagree with.

If you find that a server is rude, incompetent and belligerent, the thing to do is to speak with the manager, and if the manager is unhelpful, stop frequenting the restaurant. If a restaurant cannot make sure their staff are respectful, they deserve to lose the business. But not tipping is stealing the person's wages. It is wrong. You don't get to do this with any other service: you don't get to not pay your airfare because a flight attendant was incompetent, or not pay for gas because the gas-station attendant was rude, or not pay for groceries because the checkout clerk was belligerent or because the people working at the store didn't help you find what you were looking for. This is why tips should really be abolished. People should not be allowed to steal a server's wages just because they feel entitled to it.

Moreover, just as in the professional world women are seen as belligerent or incompetent even when they behave the same way and produce the same results as men who do the same level of work, a waitress will tend to be seen in a much more negative light than a waiter doing the same thing. Punishing the server for perceived deficiencies therefore allows the salaries of servers to be much too dependent on our society's prejudices.

I pay a 15% tip when the service is less than satisfactory. And I am completely comfortable with my position. The fact that some people feel entitled to steal servers' wages only strengthens my belief in my own position.

[Egnever]

161. Oh I disagree

Last edited Mon Apr 24, 2017, 02:38 AM - Edit history (1)

There are a multitude of occupations that are tipped positions. And a tip despite the IRS expecting a portion of it is not a wage .

Valet's, card dealers, cab drivers, bellmen...The list is long.

Some of them are actually taxed some are not. Tipping is intended to be a reward for good service and in a way works to weed people out of the field that perform poorly.

I think the real problem is the minimum wages and not what people are tipping if the minimum is sufficient the tip again becomes what it is intended to be.

[fescuerescue]

165. Oh I did talk to the management

And the service remained poor. Continuing to tip after management intervention and continued poor service would have sent a message that the issue was rectified. It wasn't.

Sure I could have spent another 30 minutes summoning a manager again, but my time is valuable and my parents and aunt were already very frustrated.

And I didn't steal a wage (seriously now), I don't pay wages, I pay for service which was non-rendered. If this mean that she lost her job or was chastised then so be it. The hope to calm down and enjoy a meal was ruined on top of what was already an extremely bad day.

This was a pretty rare event, last time was several years ago. My conscious is quite clear as I went well beyond the call of duty to give her a chance to save the day. This was a pretty rare event, last time was several years ago.

fwiw, I have complained to airlines and other services for bad service and received a total refund.

[RhodeIslandOne]

175. And then they might get fired

I'd like to think a bad tip might send a message before they lose their source of income.

[AgadorSparticus]

150. I hate this system. Just pay people right and get rid of tipping altogether

I always tip...even when the service is less than stellar. But, I don't know...I made GREAT money waiting tables in college. Even when I did seasonal work at Shoney's (not sure anyone remembers that place), but I averaged $20+ /hr...and that was back in the late 80's, in a tiny town, rocking a burnt orange/hunter green plaid polyester monstrosity of a uniform. Maybe I got pity tips for wearing that uniform?

[RhodeIslandOne]

176. Why not both? n/m

[AgadorSparticus]

184. Because tipping is a pain in the butt. Most places around the world don't tip like we do.

In other places, it is a job. That is what people are paid to do. There is no tipping. Here, we are obsessed with it. I would just rather do away with the entire system altogether. I don't want to be subsidizing people's jobs. They should be paid properly. I would rather we tip for exceptional service only.

[kcr]

152. The OP is absolutely correct and here's why:

The tip is their wage. Just about everyone else who can afford to eat out can count on their wage being the amount they expect it to be. And they don't have to worry about their boss capriciously docking them for arbitrary amounts just because, or maybe not even paying them at all. Imagine your boss at Initech can just say "Hey! You didn't smile enough today! I don't like your attitude. I'm docking you 300 bucks".

It's simply amazing that we've come to expect protections for just about every other sector when it comes to wages except for wait staff. The excuse that they are service oriented doesn't hack it either. They aren't the only service-oriented workforce. It should be unacceptable for any workers to be treated this way.

[Adrahil]

169. That seems reasonable, mostly....

I've RARELY had an issue. But once in a while, I've had servers that were rude, or clearly neglectful. My favorite was the one that told me they didn't have time to refill my drink because it didn't add to the check and wouldn't affect their tip. Oh yes, it WILL affect your tip....

[kcr]

171. Great. Then they don't get paid. But they're still employed, at their job serving you.

You didn't fire them or penalize them in any other way, the way it normally works for everyone else who can afford to eat out. Because you can't do that. You just didn't pay them. Imagine if that was your job. Your boss determined you didn't fulfill your duty. And he/she may be right. So they just decided not to pay you. Your rent/mortgage is still due, right? Imagine that your paycheck fluctuates in that way. That's my point. Everyone who can afford to eat out knows that when they screw up, they arent just going to get their pay docked. But that's what you're doing when you decide "Oh yes, it WILL affect your tip"

[Adrahil]

172. Here's the thing...

I typically tip at least 20%. I do not expect exceptional service. That's my baseline. I do not penalize for someone overloaded, a slow kitchen or even honest server mistakes. I do, however penalize for deliberately poor service. And I do tip them. I tip them 10% instead of my usual 20+. I don't expect much.

[kcr]

185. Okay then. Points for honesty that you're ok with withholding wages n/t

[Adrahil]

188. Sure I am if....

The person I am paying refuses to do the work. I also refused to pay a painter who did not paint the room the way we agreed in writing.

Why the hell would I pay someone full rate for not doing the job the entire job? Your attitude mystifies me.

[argyl]

153. 20% is standard for me.

If the service is exceptional or the waitperson is obviously new and is really giving it their all I'll leave 25% at least.

[Volstagg]

154. Of course

We need to change our wage system for servers, but, until then, 15% is a bare minimum.

[Adrahil]

156. Usually tip 20%, but....

A shitty attitude will result in a lower tip. It's rarely a problem, but occasioanlly....

[rainbow4321]

162. And when the servers get "side jobs" delegated to them...their pay is the 2-something an hour only

My daughter worked in the service industry for a while and would tell me how they all dreaded the side jobs---like stocking things or rolling napkins/silverware or other non-serving tasks. Because they knew that they were at their flat 2-something an hour instead of that hourly rate AND tips.

I do make a point of doing 20% but I will admit that I have given much less when this happens:

Bring me my food, return literally a minute later to ask how it is...and then wait til I'm DONE to swing by and ask if I want a soda refill. Um, no..I'm DONE eating. I shouldn't have to flag down another restaurant worker or get up and go to the bar to get my refill. Especially since I have pushed my empty glass to the end of the table so it can easily be seen as being empty.

Sounds petty but this happens frequently. I don't know if it's because I'm a lone diner (travel for work) and they know my bill (and then tip) will be lower than the parties of 3 or 4+ people so I'm not very high on their to do list.

But I've also been known to walk out of a place when they ask "how many", I say "one" and they try repeatedly to convince me to sit at the bar for my meal because they don't want to seat me at a table..not even a "2 top" (i.e. 2 person table). I don't appreciate being made to feel like I am an inconvenience. Me and my money can go on to the next place.

[maxsolomon]

168. I tip 3000% regardless of service

I win.

[Texasgal]

170. Why is does being

a supporter of Hillary Or Bernie have anything to do with tipping?

Is there something I am missing?

[Gothmog]

173. Agreed

[RhodeIslandOne]

174. I am a generous tipper

However, I know the difference between the kitchen being bad, short staffing, and just a bad/rude server. I had one waitress once who spent half the night behind the bar on the phone and then proceeded to send out the wrong orders, and just shrug and disappear for twenty minutes again. She got a bad tip.

[tonyt53]

177. 20% - 25% usually. Will go down to 15% for truly bad service, but no lower.

I do recognize when the server is truly doing a bad job and when the restaurant is doing a bad job. My wife and I both feel that with the minimum wage for a server being so low, that it isn't fair to give less than 15%. I will add that it is very rare that it is less than 20%.

[TlalocW]

178. I'm a balloon twister

It has become my main income, and an important part of it is restaurant work. It's a way to hand out cards for parties, but also a way to make some extra money through tips. I see how hard it is to be waitstaff in a restaurant. For the most part, after I've made a table whatever sculptures they want, I'm done with them - I don't have to keep remembering to check on their drink levels, ask them to check their steaks by cutting into them, come up and ask them how everything tastes right when they take a bite of something (kidding). Knowing how unorganized I am in real life, I can't even fathom how to take orders pass them off to the kitchen and then get the correct food back and then trying to efficiently correct any mistakes that may have occurred. All while being happy campers. It's truly amazing.

TlalocW

[Lisa0825]

179. I usually tip over 20%, but I was a waitress long enough to know when it's bad service or just

someone have a bad day or being in the weeds.

I have only left without tipping twice in my life (I am 48), and I felt completely justified both times. It was not about late food or wrong orders. It was about being completely ignored and then being treated with anger and rudeness when I politely complained. In one case, the server was actually fired when I and nearby customers told the manager what had happened.

So I agree with most of your post, but like another post up-thread, I don't agree with absolutes.

[get the red out]

180. We do

Or more, generally.

[nadine_mn]

181. I start at 20% and will only go to 15% if the server does something

like have a really bitchy attitude or rudeness (some servers - just like anyone else - can be jerks). And I don't mean rude as in they won't kiss my ass and treat me like I am the only customer ever or if they professional but not overly friendly. I mean they have to do something pretty awful - and if that happens, we would probably just leave.

My start at 20% (and I'll go up to 30%) is for various reasons
1) I briefly worked as a waitress in college at Pizza Hut where people don't think they have to tip a pizza place even when dining in. I SUCKED as a waitress - I have no idea how anyone can handle it for years!

2) My first job was a dishwasher in a small town diner- horrid conditions but I would take that any day over waitressing. I often saw the waitresses take the brunt of abuse from cheap ass locals, rude tourists who thought everything was "quaint", and temperamental cooks. But always they had a smile for me and were super nice to a 15 yr old covered in lutefisk.

3) More and more I hear about how servers have to share tips with everyone else - fuck that.

4) I am also trying to make up for assholes I know don't tip or are shitty tippers.

5) I grew up shit poor and we are still barely making ends meet. So if we go out, we build in tip to our budget. So if it means we can't afford dessert so we can leave a good tip, so be it. Nothing makes my eyes twitch more than reading when people say they saved up for a nice dinner and can't afford to tip. TIP IS PART OF YOUR MEAL


Non-tip things I do that I hope make a difference: I always make eye contact (not like in a creepy way) with my server, say hi ask how they are doing. None of this mumbling into my menu like they aren't even there. Stop conversation and put phones away (well do that anyway usually unless I am fact checking my husband because I have to be right) - I give the server my full attention.

I say please and thank you like a fucking normal person when asking for something or when they bring out food or refill. I apologize if I forget to ask for something and have to make them make another trip. Some assholes think it's cute to see how many times they can run a server ragged.

If service was exceptional - I will tip 25% and above and if I can write a little to the server about how awesome they are.

If a restaurant is busy or you can see that a server is having an off day, or if I am having an off day - I do not let that influence tipping.

I hate the tipping system - ooooh I so fucking hate it. Because I have see so many women servers being told by creepy men that they have "earn the tip" or being told to "smile honey". Because its demeaning. Because it is unfair.

sorry for the rant

[a kennedy]

182. My husband worked as a bus boy when he was young, we ALWAYS tip 20% or more now.

He always has been a great tipper because of that experience. We even tip the hostess at times. We also no not write a tip on our charge slip.....we draw a line in the tip area and then leave cash in the folder so the server gets the money themselves and doesn't have to share with other servers.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

183. k$R

They should join a union too.

[ecstatic]

186. At least 20% rounded up because it's easy to calculate

I won't necessarily round up for the rare awful waiter, and excellent waiters may get a little more.

[qdouble]

187. Tipping just pushes the burden of paying the workers a livable salary on the customer

and gives people a guilt trip when they should be out dining. I tip whatever I feel like tipping. It's silly that this is political.

[athena]

189. That is not only facile and self-serving but also illogical.

Who do you think is paying for the food, the kitchen, the management, the advertising, and part of the service, if not the customer? Who do you think would be paying the additional charge if tips were abolished and servers made the regular minimum wage?

It is facile, self-serving, illogical, and incredibly selfish to steal a worker's wages because the law happens to be what it is. If I were you, I would not go to the same restaurant more than once.

[qdouble]

190. Then they should charge the appropriate prices for their products. It's called false advertising.

When I buy clothes, I don't tip the cashier because she's underpaid. It's the employer's job to pay the workers salary, not guilt tripping consumers.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

191. I always tip at least 15% for the exact reasons you outlined. n/t

[BigDemVoter]

192. I START tipping @ 15%. . . Service workers make SHITTY money, and it's criminal

to not leave anything. . . Somebody would have to REALLY do something awful for me not to leave a tip.

In fact, the ONLY time I an recall not leaving a tip in my LONG life was at a Greek restaurant in Memphis, TN many, many years ago. I was there with my partner, and obviously the management had a problem with gay people, as they were rude as fucking hell with both of us. I left NO tip, and I spoke rudely with the management prior to leaving. THAT is about the only excuse I can think of for not leaving one.

Hell, even poor service generally merits 15%. . .

[alphafemale]

194. As others have mentioned I also tip pizza delivery drivers well.

I get my pizzas very quickly.

[Drahthaardogs]

196. I tip 20% for almost everything BUT

If the wait staff is standing in the corner talking and not checking on me, they get less. If they are doing their best that is one thing. If they are talking or playing with their phone it's different