Not everyone in the party respects a woman's right to choose? And we are supposed to respect that?

[LexVegas]

Fuck that noise. Are we expected to respect those that don't respect the civil rights of LGBTQ citizens? How about the civil rights of racial minorities? We respect them too?

Not me. I don't respect any of those fuckers. I ain't trying to reach out to them, and I sure as hell ain't voting for them. Not in this day and age. Not gonna happen.

[boston bean]

1. I am pissed at Warren and her offices will hear from me.

Why are we splitting the party one these lines??

Is Northam a bad democrat? Is he so bad that an anti choice candidate is better??

[LexVegas]

2. I can't even believe this shit I am reading. nt

[ismnotwasm]

3. This is some fucked up damage control

I get what she's doing from a political standpoint. I am furious that she feels the need.

[Demsrule86]

5. I called should call Schumer too and other Dem leaders ...explain to them how abortion rights

are not negotiable.

[Me.]

14. Good Luck With Calling Schumer

You will never ever get through, to any of his offices

[Demsrule86]

20. I will send an email then.

[boston bean]

44. I got through to his dc office late last week.

[Me.]

60. Congrats...You Are The Winner In This Pool

As he's my senator I have his and Senator Gillibrand's number permanently on my computer. Dozens and dozens of calls have never gotten me in so I am glad he heard your voice

[snooper2]

4. Shocking Footage of Dead United Airlines Bunny

[ismnotwasm]

8. .

[asiliveandbreathe]

6. We let this slide..and then what? - What else are we expected to just

suck it up??? For what? - So they keep their seat in congress?? Screw that...

[leftstreet]

9. Gays shouldn't get healthcare! Minorities shouldn't marry whites!

The possibilities are fucking endless!!

Hope I don't need this:

[Demsrule86]

26. If fucking sucks that we have have this fight in 2017...

I am beyond furious...anybody else turn into a curse machine after Trump was elected? My son ( young adult) actually called me on my abysmal language..

[Demsrule86]

7. Damn right...Democrats should not normalize anti-choice in the Democratic Party.

It is the reason I am a Democrat...sure I agree with the platform...but pro-choice rights are a deal breaker for me...endanger them at your peril.

[DURHAM D]

10. I guess the 19th Amendment will be up next for

the Democrats to reconsider.

[Starry Messenger]

11. k&r

[Orrex]

12. Can't just declare women "chattel" once and for all and move on?

[mopinko]

13. with women so in the forefront of the resistance?

oh hell no.

"pro-life" has been a litmus test on the other side of the aisle for decades. it's about time choice was on our side of aisle. past time.

[world wide wally]

15. Once again Democrats shoot for 100% when all you need is 51

[bitterross]

59. I get your point and agree.

If we have to wait for candidates that are pure and 100% in all their views we're going to keep on losing the whole frigging country by "winning" little battles.

[zipplewrath]

16. Have before

I understand your point, but we were expected to support and vote for a recent presidential candidate that did not support gay marriage and in fact had to "evolve" on the subject. We were expected to support and vote for a presidential candidate that signed the "Defense of Marriage Act". I guess it just boils down to how many turds are you gonna fish out of the soup before you decide you can't eat it.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Thank you!

How soon some forget!

[boston bean]

22. Can we live in thos decade please.

[zipplewrath]

36. Sure

How do you define that? 2007-2017? That's the period to which I referred in part.

[boston bean]

38. The decade where the law expanded those rights.

Just like choice is the law.

[zipplewrath]

40. So you mean

So by "decade" you mean "the last two years".

[boston bean]

42. I mean find me a democrat running in a primary against legal gay marriage that is supported

by democrats.

[zipplewrath]

43. So you mean "now"

This "decade" is getting shorter by the minute.

[boston bean]

45. Choice has been law of the land for multiple decades.

[zipplewrath]

75. And Marriage equality has been two years

But yet you made some comment about "living in this decade".

[boston bean]

78. Yah I did.

[ismnotwasm]

23. If the recent candidate held those views while running

I would in no way, shape or form support them.

[boston bean]

37. Gay marriage is the law of the land. So isn't choice.

Damn.

[ismnotwasm]

39. Precisely

This is the elephant in the room. While GBLQ rights are by no means complete or secure, the right to choose is under flagrent attack. I will support "negotiating" the human rights of no one.

[Demsrule86]

46. she did support it. Now because some did not support her...all gays are endangered.

And if we support anti choice Democrats...the same will happen to women...And apparently, it is just fine to throw woman's rights under the bus.

[zipplewrath]

48. "She"

When did I mention a "she"?

[Demsrule86]

54. It was clear you meant Hillary...not a mystery to me.

[zipplewrath]

73. I referred to two people

I made reference to two people, one was Bill Clinton and one was Barack Obama. I'm not sure how that means I "clearly meant Hillary".

[herding cats]

65. If this were the early 1970's I'd agree with you.

It's not, it's 2017 and a right to choose has been established law since 1973. Yet here we are still having to re fight the same old battles every damn election. I don't want this trend to continue for GLBT, minority or women's rights. Which it will, and it will get worse if we normalize it further.

Dismissing established law for regressive beliefs is ridiculous. Especially in the case where it's a primary candidate. If it's a personally held belief, and they go on to say they'll vote to uphold the law I would reconsider. If it's a deep red district and it's our only hope to possibly win, I could take that into consideration as well. That doesn't mean it should ever be our first choice, or that we shouldn't ever passionately complain about their regressive mindset. However, we should always work to try and get the best candidate in first during the primary. If we don't, then, and only then, do we consider compromise.

[progressoid]

70. Early 70s ?

How about earlier in this decade when most "liberal" democrats either opposed or ignored marriage equality. Of course now we celebrate them as leaders for civil rights.
Sometimes we have to hold our nose, vote, and hope we can pressure them into doing the right thing.

[herding cats]

79. Yeah, that sucked too, my point was it's now law (finally) as is a right to choose for 44yrs.

Reread my post, I agree there are some rare instances or places where it can be necessary. It depends on other factors though, and should always be a last resort.

I don't respect mealy mouthed antics when it comes to civil rights issues by our politicians, and I never have. Yet, like you, I have found myself in a position in the past where they were my only choice and I voted for them. If it were a Dem who supported eliminating or reversing any of our basic and hard fought civil rights accomplishments, voting protections, etc., I can't say I would do the same though. Which was something I've come to realize as these conversations have been ongoing.

[7962]

67. I gotta remember that soup. Wow thats a good one nt

[beam me up scottie]

92. +1!

That is an apt analogy. Well said.

[Jim Lane]

17. Would you have voted for Hillary when she ran for the Senate and opposed marriage equality?

I did. I voted for a candidate who didn't respect the civil rights of LGBTQ citizens. I disagreed with her on that issue, and others, but overall she was better than the alternative.

ETA: Let me make clear this is a generalization. I don't know enough about Northam and Perriello to know who's better overall. If Northam is better on reproductive rights, that would certainly be a factor in his favor.

[ismnotwasm]

24. No.

[comradebillyboy]

27. Which prominent democrat publicly supported marriage equality

in 2000 or even 2008. Not even Obama did until Joe Biden forced his hand.

[Stryst]

57. This.

As a queer person, I made a choice every time I went to the ballot... do I vote for the candidate who will take my money and votes and then throw me under the bus, or the candidate who will take my money and then light me on fire before the bus leaves.

And now we have Trump.

There are f**king lines in the sand. On one side is right, on the other, evil and oppression.

No more compromises. No more support for candidates who hem and haw about human rights in order to not offend a bunch of christofascist assholes who weren't going to vote for them anyway.

I have been a registered Democrat since the day after my 18th birthday, and I want them to be good.

[LostOne4Ever]

69. Carol Braun, Al Sharpton, Kucinich, and Gravel nt

[NewDealProgressive]

84. Prominent was the criteria.

None of these are or were.


Sadly. They're all the kind of people we need in prominent positions.

[LostOne4Ever]

85. Al Sharpton wasn't prominent? Regardless, I agree they are the kind of people we need. nt

[Rilgin]

29. I dont know the Northam Perriello fight either but

It seems to be a split between National Democrats (for Perriello) and Local Democrats (for Northam). Perriello is supported by John Podesta and some other prominent Hillary Aides and Perriello has an endorsement letter from 30 Prominent Obama aides (see article). The article also says that Obama campaigned with Perriello in the end few weeks of the last election and was the only congressman given a personal campaign support.

I do not really understand what is going on but it has to be something that is dividing support in this manner and explains why he had the relationship with the Obama administration.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/obama-staff-tom-perriello-virginia-236367

[bettyellen]

32. We are talking about rolling back rights as opposed to how exactly to go about expanding them....

Huge difference there.

[stopbush]

18. Ever notice how choice is a bad thing according to the Christianistas

when it comes to a woman's right to choose, or to a non-straight person "choosing" their sexual identity, while choice is a good thing when it comes to picking your religion (as long as it's Christian)?

[Jim Lane]

31. Not to mention the Hobby Lobby decision

Choice is also a good thing when it's a corporate employer's choice to restrict the employee's choice under the company's health plan, if the employee's choice contradicts the employer's version of Christianity.

Calling them "Christianistas" is a new one on me. I've usually gone with "Christofascists" but "Talibornagain" also gets the point across.

[Raster]

19. I can respect that a Democrat may personally not believe in abortion...

...as long as they believe that every woman has the right to make that choice for herself. If you don't like abortion, then don't have one. It really is that simple. It's a free country, and you get to make the best decisions for YOU. Just you. You don't get to decide what's right for me or what's best for anyone else other than yourself. And if you're willing to support or pass laws that do try and decide what's best for anyone else against their wishes, you're not a Democrat, you're not a progressive, you're not a liberal. You're an asshole. And yes, it really is that simple.

[old guy]

61. Exactly.

[demigoddess]

68. don't hold your breath. If men could get pregnant,

there would be a tax break so you could deduct the cost of an abortion from your taxes, but women, we will think about giving you the right to decide, maybe.

[davsand]

25. Gonna get a lot further lobbying a Dem than I will a Republican.

Eyes on the prize.

They might not be pro-choice, but if they are a Dem surely they are gonna be better on a lot of other issues than some Republican will be. Does it piss me off that people don't share my opinions? Yeah, of course it does. BUT, I learned a LONG time ago that when I'm out trying to organize it is a lot better to take the half loaf I'm offered then come back the next day to ask for the rest. Taking nothing just because you want it all is a rookie mistake. Never quit fighting for what you want, and never turn down any gains you can make.

Fight this kind of fight in the Primary, but it sure needs to be put on hold afterward.


Laura

[boston bean]

47. The primary is where support person who represent our values.

Wow. I can't believe how easy it is formsome to just say oh well.

Lets see what happens when dems cave on this and the parties politicos are anti choice.

What a lovely day that will be. <sarcasm>

[Demsrule86]

50. I would hold my nose and vote for the Dem in an election if the other choice was a republican

but not in a primary...and our leaders should damn well not try to normalize anti-choice by endorsing anti-choice candidates period. Mello did some serious damage to women's rights in Nebraska with his votes-denial of insurance coverage and a 20 week ban... Perriello almost cost us the ACA and permanently damaged insurance for abortion both in the private and employee markets with his vote for the infamous Stupak amendment.

[MuseRider]

28. It is certainly a line in the sand for me.

This is just not all about the "baybeee". <--- the last thing one of my anti choice relatives said to me, what about Jesus's precious baby?

[CrispyQ]

30. Abortion & the 13th Amendment

2010
Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth Amendment and Abortion
Andrew Koppelman
Northwestern University School of Law, [e-mail]

http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=facultyworkingpapers

snip...

I. The basic argument

The Thirteenth Amendment reads as follows:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

My claim is that the amendment is violated by laws that prohibit abortion. When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to "involuntary servitude" in violation of the amendment. Abortion prohibitions violate the Amendment's guarantee of personal liberty, because forced pregnancy and childbirth, by compelling the woman to serve the fetus, creates "that control by which the personal service of one man [sic] is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit which is the essence of involuntary servitude."6

Such laws violate the amendment's guarantee of equality, because forcing women to be mothers makes them into a servant caste, a group which, by virtue of a status of birth, is held subject to a special duty to serve others and not themselves.

It's an interesting paper.

[Phoenix61]

34. Very interesting

I had never thought of it that way but it does make sense.

[More_Cowbell]

58. In law school the example was, carry someone on your back for 9 months: he's more important than you

So the example was, there's a world-famous violinist and you're the only person who has the same rare blood type. While we're waiting to see if we can find someone who can donate an organ to him, you will be surgically attached to him and you'll give up your life so that he can pursue his violin career all over the world. Another interesting way to think of it.

[cheapdate]

33. The Party is big and can easily encompass a range of opinions

on different questions without losing its soul. In a deep red state like mine that's completely dominated by lunatic Republicans and Tea Partiers the alternatives are starkly defined and the consequences immediate and severe. It's terribly important to get some power and control back by any means possible to stop their agenda.

[leftstreet]

35. How many people in your state sit out elections?

Are we certain the Democrats are offering viable alternatives for nonvoters, independents and Democratic voters - or do they just chase after the GOP candidate by being a little less red?

[cheapdate]

41. I came to know just about all of the candidates in my area personally

over the course of the last campaign season. I can tell you 100% that these were wonderful, intelligent, informed, engaged, compassionate individuals who could not have been more committed and openly supportive of solidly progressive positions on just about every important question. I canvassed for Laura Bohling, a union member and fiercely independent champion of public education, civil rights, environmental protection, etc. I went to fundraisers for Brandon Thomas, a passionate and intelligent, young, gay, African-American. Brandon worked tirelessly (the energy of the young) to engage the community at every possible opportunity. I first met Gayle Jordan, a beautiful and engaging attorney, when she attended a community event that my local environmental group organized. I met her again at a Muslim Youth Potluck dinner. She is very outspoken and engaged in a very direct way on issues of equality and women's rights.

So, I'm certain that the Democrats in my area were offering clear alternatives to the regressive Republican agenda. Every one of them came up short. Turnout was fairly high at around 70% of registered voters.

[Demsrule86]

51. No, the party can not normalize anti-choice candidates by endorsing them...it is a dealbreaker for

me. That is not big tent...no endorsements, no rallies and for fuck's sake don't endorse an anti-choice candidate to in a primary when a pro-choice candidate is also running (Virginia)

[cheapdate]

76. I know next to nothing about Virginia politics.

But I do know that abortion is just one of many very important issues, such as criminal justice, church/state, education, environment, immigration, health care, transportation, affordable housing, etc.

I don't know any of the politicians that all of this recent discussion is about -- they're not in my state and we have our own pressing concerns here in TN. I don't know, but I suspect, that their so-called "anti-choice" positions aren't nearly as extreme as they've been painted by some. Maybe they are, I don't know. But the Party as a whole is overwhelming supportive of women's right to control their own bodies and a Mayor's race in Nebraska, or wherever we're talking about, isn't going to change that.

[BadgerMom]

71. "Any means possible"

is dangerous territory, Republican territory. What else is on the table then? Voting rights? Support for ICE raids? Equal rights? Gay rights? I'm sorry. There ARE lines in the sand. There ARE things that make me a Democrat. Areas that are deep red now weren't so deep red in 2008 or 2012. We can find other areas to win them over. We can find a candidate that speaks to them. Take away reproductive rights for me, my daughters and granddaughters? I'm gone. I'll find another candidate. I'll run myself. Sorry. I'm am steamed. FUCK THAT!

[ecstatic]

49. Perspective: opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.

Try to make a distinction between one's opinion and one's actions. Try to make a distinction between people who have a lot to say, but don't do anything, and people who actually can do something. Right now, our priority needs to be replacing all the republicans in the Senate/Congress and replacing the president. Don't get caught up on the opinions of people who, at the end of the day, don't really matter.

[Demsrule86]

52. Actions speak louder than words...

[berksdem]

63. +1...

[Jazes]

53. Honestly

No one in either party has a gun control policy I think is worth a damn.

By the logic of the OP I shouldn't vote.

I'll just stay home I guess.

[Orrex]

55. Hell, who needs them?

Women are only the majority of the population, after all. We don't need the majority, right?

[perdita9]

56. I support the rights of the individual to make decisions about their own body

If you don't want to get an abortion, I will fight the government which is forcing you too.

How's that for compromise?

[Binkie The Clown]

62. Hypothetical: Candidate 'A' agrees with me on 99% of issues,

but because of that 1% disagreement, I'll let the guy who disagrees with me on everything win.

Oh yeah, I'm so damn righteous my shit doesn't stink.

[NobodyHere]

93. I agree

[HopeAgain]

64. Can't love every Democrat, it's just interesting

how people pick and choose on when one should support a Democrat no matter what, and when they shouldn't.

[boston bean]

66. David Duke was once a democrat. He was also imperial wizard of the KKK and ran for president in 1988

as a democrat.

Should have black people supported him in the primary. Or are they allowed to draw a line in the sand when it comes to their human rights.

[HopeAgain]

87. Your singing to the choir here

But all the blame that's been thrown at people who couldn't, according to their own conscience, vote Democratic and how some are holding left independents as the sole cause of the Presidential fiasco is what I'm referring to.

I didn't vote Independent, never have, but I know some good people who did... still respect them.

[Solly Mack]

72. I don't respect the anti-choice opinion period.

Anti-choice is just another way of saying anti-woman.

A person can hold the personal opinion of wanting to never have an abortion. Because choice includes having or not having an abortion - as well as carrying it to term and putting the infant up for adoption or raising it yourself (duh). But you can't hold an anti-choice opinion and claim to respect women.

You don't have to respect my choice but you don't get to deny me that choice either.

[MuseRider]

82. Perfect.

It could not be stated any more clearly than that.

[LAS14]

74. Tolerate, not respect. For the sake of controlling congressional committees, etc.

[murielm99]

77. I think we all know what this is about.

Bernie supported Mello. Bernie's followers are trying to split hairs over this. It is an attempt to create divisions in our party.

Our party's platform is pro-choice. Get on board with that, support the party platform, or go away and run as an independent.

When I look around and see how much of the work is done by Democratic women, most of it unpaid and unheralded, this makes me ill.

[Nevernose]

81. Pelosi, Schumer, and Warren all came out

With support for anti-choice Democrats this weekend. It's not Bernie, it's politics at its grossest.

[DefenseLawyer]

80. I am 100% opposed to the Death Penalty

Utterly, completely, in all circumstances, without exception. I feel very strongly about that. Does that mean I must oppose Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton and Al Gore and John Kerry and Joe Biden and Barack Obama? The 2016 platform called the abolition of the death penalty yet death penalty supporter Hillary Clinton was our nominee. How is that possible?

[shenmue]

83. Aw hell naw

[50 Shades Of Blue]

86. K & R!!!!!!!!!!!

[yurbud]

88. what happened to the "no purity tests" stuff?

I support abortion rights, but I'm more pissed off about Democrats who go off the reservation on economic issues or the war du jour.

And your abortion isn't going to help you pursue opportunities if there are none to pursue.

[NastyRiffraff]

89. A Democrat can hold whatever PERSONAL views he or she wants

as long as they KEEP it personal and out of the voting Congress. This shouldn't be something that's even up for debate; yet we see not only many DU members and more importantly, people like Elizabeth Warren, saying that it's "understandable" for a Democrat to be anti-choice. The fact that this is STILL a controversy is abhorrent.

It's evidently hard for some people to believe, but women are capable of making the choice of whether or not to have an abortion. That SHOULD be a medical decision; for some people possibly a religious one. But it DEFINITELY shouldn't be a government decision.

[ismnotwasm]

91. +100,000,000

[Starry Messenger]

94. +1000

[treestar]

90. When they are a state or local candidate

We would not have to support them.

We need input from the Democrats who live in those states/cities.

There are red state DUers and we need to listen to them on this subject.