The Civil War never ended

[Cyrano]

The media recently focused on Trump's spewing out his ignorance about the Civil War, his Andrew Jackson crap, etc.

But one issue that the media never focuses on is that the Civil War never really ended.

The main issue of the Civil War was states rights vs federalism. After all, states rights was an argument that states, in which it was okay to own slaves, could continue to hold slaves.

The North "won," sorta. The cannons stopped, but institutionalized racism continues to oppress America's black population till this very day. Call it what you will. But to me, it's nothing more but slavery "lite."

(Don't believe it? Do a count of how many white cops have been exonerated of murdering black human beings. Do a count of the number of blacks incarcerated in prison, for insanely long sentences, for possessing an ounce of weed.)

And the Republican Party, the party of today's South, and of most of the rest of rural America, are the major protectors and enforcers of institutional slavery.

Like it or not, it's the reason they keep winning elections and are today in charge of all branches of government.

I believe that the majority of Americans are not racists. And I also believe that those who are have found tactics that include gerrymandering, phony voter ID schemes, fixed voting machines, and other methods that we are not even aware of to use sleazy, gangster-like schemes to hold onto power.

So if the Civil War was about doing away with slavery, the Union lost. And so did every black human being in America.

Let me say it once again. The Civil War never ended.

[CanonRay]

1. The minute they seceeded, the Confederate government

started dismantling states rights. Taxes, the draft, etc. It didn't work during the Articles of Confederation, it didn't work during the Confederacy, it doesn't work now.

[heaven05]

2. truth

[Orrex]

3. I agree, and I am gratified to see this post

I made a similar point here about two years ago but was shouted down. It's a lot harder to deny the reality of it now.

[Cyrano]

7. Yes. Deniers will always exist

But looking at Trump's crowds of admirers, it's virtually impossible to not recognize that he's appealing to hatred, xenophobia, and racism. He's made it obvious that despising the "OTHER," gets votes.

Does he really believe in it himself? Who knows? Trump is an empty man who will present himself in any way he needs to in order to make himself adored. The reality that his admirers include neo-Nazis, the KKK, and every demented creature looking for some sick cause to cling to, either escapes him, or he just doesn't care.

The real danger, however, is that he appeals to a much larger segment of Americans than just the crazies mentioned above.

Unfortunately, far too many Americans have bought into what he's selling. They're guzzling down his snake oil of mindlessness, racism and hatred.

[The Polack MSgt]

4. K&R nt

[KT2000]

5. Absolutely correct

and am glad you stated it so well.
Faux fed the divide with success to the point we are now. They took away the need to learn and make progress for a better country and replaced it with the rigid hate that we see now.

[Cyrano]

6. I can't adjust to the existence of this denial

The Republicans have a powerful propaganda machine. We Dems don't even come close to matching them in this area and it's probably one of the reasons we lose so often.

Nonetheless, I'm constantly astounded by the ignorance of most people when it comes to American history and how we got to where we are now.

I know that history is taught differently in many parts of the country: e.g. "The War of Northern Aggression," vs "The Civil War." But you'd think that at some point, people would read, learn, see, grasp, understand ... get it.

Perhaps I'm asking too much in a society in which books are becoming obsolete and "fake news" has become a mighty force for deception. I guess I have only one reaction to this. Sigh.

[oasis]

8. Strom Thurmond, Attn. Gen. Jeff Sessions, Haley Barbour, Jesse Helms

George Wallace. All 20th and 21st century politicians who grew up with hopes that "The South Shall Rise Again".

[Cyrano]

9. The fact that these men spent their lives in power

tells me that the South never actually fell.

Lincoln, Grant, Sherman, et.al. were able to defeat them in war. But they never won their hearts and minds, or those of their followers.

Thurmond, Sessions, Barbour, Helms, Wallace, are/were symbols of everything that decent, forward thinking human beings abhor. They are relics who are "heroes" to those clinging to a sick, inhumane past.

I don't know if any of us will live long enough to see humanity become a sane, unified entity dedicated to the common good. And as much as I'd love to be around to see this, I doubt most of us will see it in our lifetimes.

We're in a dark period right now. But this too shall pass.

[byronius]

10. One can reasonably extend the conflict back to tribal primitivism.

That's where it starts. Fear and Hatred of the Other.

Great post.

[zipplewrath]

11. I get your point but...

War, especially the American Civil War, was beyond hideous. War is really ugly. Roughly a half a million people died. The dislocation was horrendous. Disease, the loss of limbs, the dead fathers, brothers, whole families torn apart. Trust me, the "War" is over.

Racism, bigotry and bias existed before the war and after the war. That doesn't mean that the war never ended. To suggest so suggests it never "started" but always existed.

There is potentially no war as awful as a "civil" war. Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Ireland, England, Vietnam, French Revolution and on and on are some of the many examples of how awful it is when people turn upon themselves. Truth is, look at WWII Germany to see what happens during a war when a country turns on its own citizens. Look at the Russian Revolution as well.

It what makes Trump and the whole Tea Party gang so frightening. They seem so ready to turn violently inward upon other citizens. It seems like we're one McVeigh or Bundy away from a violent battle between ourselves. And if you think the current situation is bad, wait until "Sherman" is marching through your town.

You're right, bigotry, racism, and bias, never went away, especially to any meaningful degree. Neither did misogyny. Mostly it got dressed up in a kind of hidden/acceptable/coded language where it could hide among a general politeness. And I think we may be learning that it never will. Around the world in just about every major culture, the evidence re-exposes the degree to which these traits ultimately sustain themselves.

[SunSeeker]

12. Excellent post. nt

[Cyrano]

14. The causes of the Civil War are here - Now - Today

The canons have stopped. The muskets are hanging on the walls. Six hundred thousand Americans died in that horrible fucking war. More than all of our wars put together. The cause of the war was slavery. Slavery "lite" still exists today in America, both in the South and much of rural (and parts of urban) America.

But I'm really having trouble figuring out what you're getting at. So let me restate where I stand.

America is a divided country. Racism is rampant and is at the core of virtually every issue you can name.

The Republican Party plays to bigots. They use racism to win elections.

The Democratic Party welcomes all people and hates racists.

Please, zipplewrath, tell me exactly what it is I'm saying that you are taking issue with.

[zipplewrath]

25. The war is over

This isn't war.

[countryjake]

17. Our system of racial inequality & white supremacy...

is every bit as "hideous" as any civil war.

The deaths, dislocation, disease, loss of limbs, the dead fathers, brothers, whole families torn apart and, adding to your list, the Injustice System, ie. school-to-prison pipeline and the constant cop murders of minorities in our streets and police brutality against people of color...all occur under this continuing system of oppression, just as they did before the Civil War and after, so tell me, what was, is, and will be the exact tally of all that ugliness?

[mountain grammy]

24. I get what the OP is saying

but your post is more accurate. The war never did end for the south.. monuments to the glorious confederacy are everywhere, but, finally, that is being addressed.

I used to believe America would finally move beyond racism. There's been huge advances since I was a child, but I'm beginning to think we won't last long enough.

[calimary]

13. Sure feels like it, my friend.

Sure feels like it.

Feels like we've never stopped fighting it. I remember on the night of Barack Obama's first election victory, feeling as though we'd FINALLY turned the page. We FINALLY got there, as a country. We FINALLY grew up, as a nation. We FINALLY got past most of that racial shit. FINALLY!

MAN-OH-MAN was I wrong.

[oldcynic]

15. "The main issue of the Civil War was states rights vs federalism"...

...is, I'm afraid, exactly the argument of Dixiecrats who love to claim the "War Between the States" had nothing to do with slavery. It was not a 'civil war' but an invasion prompted by northern jealousy of southern prosperity and refinement.

The 'states rights' idea is still being learned in southern schools and homes, producing generations of Jeff Sessions types who argue if everybody just knew their 'place', the war would never have happened. BULL SHIT.

The Union was not lost, but when Lincoln died the chance of reconciliation vanished. I like the fantasy that, if Lincoln had lived, the entire country would not have reverted to racial hatred which, ultimately, led to the fascist/racist government now in power.

Skin color has its own anthropological basis for behavior but racism is a learned concept. It is taught by family, pubic institutions, unfair governance. It is possible to raise children who find racism repugnant. It's not possible to ignore the fact that people have different melanin content in skin but that has nothing to do with the "content of their character". For human survival, it is essential that we learn to actively reject racism.

[Cyrano]

16. I don't know if we agree about your

reasons for the Civil War.

But we agree 100% about racism.

Perhaps, Oscar Hammerstein put it best in his lyics in the song from "South Pacific," "You've got to be taught."

Here's the link:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=song+you've+got+to+be+taught

[kydo]

18. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[Cyrano]

20. kydo, you said "slavery was about money"

True enough. Originally, slaves meant wealth.

But somewhere along the way, especially in America, slaves/blacks become something that went beyond money. Slaves/black people were considered less than human.

Slave owners, and then others came to believe that black people were something "lesser." They were something sub-human. They were something that were objects rather than people. They didn't deserve to be treated as human beings. They were items to be bought, traded, used, abused, and/or items to be degraded, cast off, spit upon, and tossed aside.

Reread that last paragraph. I can only hope it horrifies you as it does me.

Slaves were things, not people. That was the mentality of many slave holders. And I fear it is the mentality of too many today. I hope/wish I'm wrong about this, but I've seen and heard too much in my lifetime to change my mind about this.

Racism in America is a unique sickness. I haven't been to enough places in the world to know where else this exists. But I know it's a reality here. And it's one that must be cleansed before we can truly call ourselves a "civilized" country.

[kydo]

21. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[Archae]

19. The South won the propaganda war.

To this day, the South and it's sympathizers like Ted Nugent say the North was "picking on" the South, even though the government of the South was so corrupt they stank on ice, and couldn't govern their own states.

It was by finally getting rid of incompetent military leaders like Burnsides and McClellan that the North started winning.

[malaise]

22. Good post

Rec

[HughBeaumont]

23. I just watched "Mississippi Burning" . . .

. . . I deduced something about why I hate watching portrayals and real life displays of human sewers and their racism moreso than that of Nazism.

Modern Germany revisits their sins and has evolved into a greater country for all of it's people because of a vow to their youth never to return to such a historical abomination.

America never wants to revisit its horrors because it seems they want to keep committing the sin and horror over and over and over again. The wars. The institutionalized racism. The reviving of slavery via the prison-for-profit system. The rampant misogyny and societal gender disparity. The income disparity. The way the wealthy are worshiped as immortal. The continuing attempts to meld church and state. The infallibility of winner-stomp-everything Capitalism. The refusal of many, many Americans to even see ONE police officer, no matter how corrupt or unfit for the job, as a criminal. The treatment of our LGBTQI Citizens.

Keep committing the sins and wonder why you'll no longer have a country.

[Yavin4]

26. No Civil War on the planet ever ends

Unless there's a complete genocide.

[Cyrano]

29. Yes. Exactly.

I just saw your post today, Yavin, but I couldn't agree more. Your statement is true concerning virtually every civil war that has ever existed on this planet.

It seems that forgiveness and/or compromise are rare among our species.

[Yavin4]

30. It's driven by the need for vengance

Every group of humans has experienced some sort of genocide at the hands of another group of humans since the dawn of man. Our ability to move past the need for vengeance is a sign of evolution. Conversely, our inability to move past this need is a sign of regression.

[sweetloukillbot]

27. I read a commentary a few years ago to the same affect

It went further in saying that the War changed to guerilla terrorism and insurgency, and that organizations like the KKK were the equivalents of Al Quaeda. And while the North won the initial war, the "south" was winning the drawn out insurgency.

[still_one]

28. That actually became apparent when Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act. Many of thel Southern

Democrats were racist as hell up to then. Those Southern Democrats changed their party affiliation to republican, and the racist Southern Strategy of Richard Nixon was born.

[BSdetect]

31. The dependence on cheap labor is also a remnant of slavery surely?

Not to belittle the horror of slavery in any way.

I detest both forms of exploitation.