Bernie Sanders Is Building An Army To Stop Trumpcare Dead In Its Tracks In The Senate

[Hassin Bin Sober]

Bernie Sanders Is Building An Army To Stop Trumpcare Dead In Its Tracks In The Senate

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/05/04/bernie-sanders-building-army-stop-trumpcare-dead-tracks-senate.html

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) wasted no time in immediately mobilizing the opposition that will be needed to kill Trumpcare in the US Senate.

In a statement provided to PoliticusUSA, Sen. Sanders said, “The bill that Republicans passed today is an absolute disaster. It really has nothing to do with health care. It has everything to do with an enormous shift of wealth from working people to the richest Americans. This bill would throw 24 million people off of health insurance – including thousands of Vermonters – cut Medicaid by $880 billion, defund Planned Parenthood and substantially increase premiums on older Americans. Meanwhile, it would provide a $300 billion tax break to the top 2 percent and hundreds of billions more to the big drug and insurance companies that are ripping off the American people. Our job now is to rally millions of Americans against this cruel bill to make sure that it does not pass the Senate. Instead of throwing tens of millions of people off of health insurance, we must guarantee health care as a right to all.”

Senate Republicans are already pronouncing the House version of the bill dead on arrival. The Senate version of the legislation will have to be more moderate, but once the Senate changes the House bill, it will require 60 votes to pass.

Whatever more moderate bill the Senate passes is likely to fail when it goes back to the House.

[JoeOtterbein]

1. BERNIE!!!!

[Demsrule86]

5. Not being snarky really want to know what is he doing so that I can get involved...anyone

know? The article was short on detail any other info?

[beam me up scottie]

2. Excellent!

The rallies Chuck and Bernie organized inspired thousands in opposition to the last Don'tCare bill and it never even made it to the floor.

Go Bernie!

[Ninsianna]

22. The last bill was opposed by people inspired by the Resistance movement,

I don't think the rallies had much to do with it. Thousands were activated in November when their votes were brushed aside as if they didn't count.

The senators are busy doing other things to deal with their colleagues who seem determined to push bad laws, the Resistance is doing the work, can we credit them?

They're actually even more inspired after the past week or so when things like the commitment to safeguarding human rights was threatened by Senator Sanders. Especially after today, when we learned that simply being female is a preexisting condition, we need Bernie to confirm his commitment to fighting the right wing and their attacks on women, and not help them by endorsing wolves in sheep's clothing.

We can do somersaults and shake our pom-poms AFTER he helps the Dems do the will of the party's constituents and takes a leadership role in fighting our enemy not giving in on issues that are important to us.

I hope that the outcry over what was approved today will teach Bernie how wrong he was to endorse people who agree with these Republicans, this is what happens when we are not rigid on choice.

[countryjake]

26. Do you think House Minority Leader Pelosi threatens our rights?

If you listened to her interview with the Washington Post, she actually says that pro-choice is fading as an issue, that it's not as important to Democrats as it once was.

After she surely must have received thousands of phone calls, she later came out with a "clarification", with her spokesperson saying, "House Democrats recognize, while there are differences in the closest of families about deeply held personal beliefs, legislating those beliefs onto others is a complete non-starter"

Pelosi: Democratic candidates should not be forced to toe party line on abortion

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pelosi-democratic-candidates-should-not-be-forced-to-toe-party-line-on-abortion/2017/05/02/9cbc9bc6-2f68-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html


The Democratic Party should not impose support for abortion rights as a litmus test on its candidates, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Tuesday, because it needs a broad and inclusive agenda to win back the socially conservative voters who helped elect President Trump.

“This is the Democratic Party. This is not a rubber-stamp party,” Pelosi said in an interview with Washington Post reporters.

~snip~

“In our caucus, one thing unifies us: our values about working families,” Pelosi said. “Some people are more or less enthusiastic about this issue or that issue or that issue. They’ll go along with the program, but their enthusiasm is about America’s working families.”

She also suggested that the party’s presumed rigidity on social issues is one reason that Democrats were unable to appeal to segments of the electorate that might otherwise have been in tune with their broader agenda.

“You know what? That’s why Donald Trump is president of the United States — the evangelicals and the Catholics, anti-marriage equality, anti-choice. That’s how he got to be president,” she said. “Everything was trumped, literally and figuratively by that.”

[Ninsianna]

29. I do not, and I don't think anyone who actually listened to all of her words would

think so either.

She didn't actually say that it was unimportant to Democrats, she also stated that she didn't think anyone could get an nomination if they were anti-choice. It's in the part that was snipped out, and you can hear it in the video.

The reason it was fading as an issue is that we were united on that question, until a few weeks ago, no one imagined that anyone would endorse a candidate that was proposing abortion bans. THAT is not what our party is about, it's why the outcry and the blowback was so hard and why people are still so angry at Bernie Sanders for what he said and the man he and his Revolution endorsed. That man was also pro-Keystone, and signed a letter begging for Kerry to approve it for the 30 jobs it would bring.

Her words were spun by people who didn't listen very well and who seem to enjoy attacking female Democratic leaders when they deliberately misunderstand her words.

She didn't say we should promote anti-choice ideology or candidates that sponsor bills that seek to violate women's basic human rights, or that this was okay, or that this made them "true progressives".

She said that she didn't think such people would get the nomination, but the party itself should not have purity test, from her words in the video in your link, she seems pretty confident that the voters wouldn't nominate or support such a candidate themselves.

Note that the Mello is a candidate for mayor Omaha, that's not exactly highly visible, high priority office. I wonder how many people in that city actually were paying attention to the race at all until Bernie and the Our Revolution person, who was anti-choice herself, and who felt she could overlook her own previous anti-Keystone activism to ask Bernie to come down to shine a huge spotlight onto a deeply offensive candidate whose record is worse than many Republicans.

Until people started digging into who Mello was, who knew what he was trying to legislate? I'm guessing Bernie did not, if he did and still endorsed this guy, then that's a whole lot more problematic.

I think that people who seek to push these types of candidates who violate our POLICY positions with their legislative records threaten our rights. It's why all that deflection about Manchin and Kaine were such poor arguments to excuse the endorsement of Mello, THEY never tried to propose a 20 week ban, they never tried to keep insurance from covering elective procedures, they never tried to prevent women in rural areas from accessing care via telemedicine. Mello did.

Pelsosi didn't suggest that people like Mello should be embraced, she pointed out that Democrats would raise their voices and not nominate such people. A more prominent position that would draw more attention would not have allowed a person with the legislative record of a Mello to get that far.

In the current atmosphere, women are angry, we are activated, and we're paying very close attention to which men are saying what, now that being a woman is a pre-existing condition, you can bet that people like Mello and those who are "soft" on such things as abortion, will be getting some close scrutiny.

As to the issue of Choice as a political concern, it's the dying old farts on the right who seem to still use it as a wedge issue. Catholics use contraception, they understand that pregnancies go wrong and they know the danger they're exposed to in Catholic hospitals. It's "fading" as an issue because more and more people are against the right wing movement to ban abortion, attack planned parenthood, and force pregnancies. That's why the anti-choice groups need to bus in bodies from their religious schools, with kids eager for a field trip and time off school and why those same kids don't apply those beliefs to their own bodies, and why by the time they get to college, they're no longer so interested in the "cause" that was so fun in high school.

The backlash you're seeing right now is what happens when it's assumed that women have the right to access safe, affordable abortion. We're the generation that only heard about the women dying in back allies, and who know the names and the faces of the women who are dying around the world when they're denied this access.

[countryjake]

61. You & I must be listening to a different Leader Pelosi...

And I'll certainly not argue over this with you for I have no desire to see a rehash of what transpired on this Forum during the past two years.

Our Leader in the House walked back the most excellent declaration made by Democratic National Committee chairman Tom Perez:

"Every Democrat, like every American, should support a woman’s right to make her own choices about her body and her health. That is not negotiable and should not change city by city or state by state.

At a time when women’s rights are under assault from the White House, the Republican Congress, and in states across the country, we must speak up for this principle as loudly as ever and with one voice.

I fundamentally disagree with Heath Mello's personal beliefs about women's reproductive health. It is a promising step that the candidate now shares the Democratic Party's position on women's fundamental rights. Each candidate who runs as a Democrat should do the same. Because every woman should be able to make her own health choices, period."

His statement came out Friday, April 21. Senator Schumer practically immediately answered questions about what Perez had said, on the cable news networks, talking about how of course the Democratic Party was strongly Pro-Choice, but we're also a "big tent" (and he did put that "but" in there).

So now, jump to Sunday morning's Meet The Press, and Chuck Todd asks Leader Nancy Pelosi, "Can you be a Democrat and get the support of the Democratic Party if you're pro-life?"

She responded with, "Of course. I have served many years in Congress with members who have not shared my very positive, my family would say aggressive, position on promoting a woman's right to choose."

So, please, don't try to imply that I'm spinning anything or enjoy "attacking female Democratic leaders". I, too, pay very close attention to who is saying what, and more importantly, why they are saying such things. You may excuse it when a leading woman lifts up a flap of that tent to those who might take away our Right to Abortion. Not me.

[beam me up scottie]

66. + 1,000,000

[Ninsianna]

104. I listened to the link you provided, not sure why the words did not come through when you

clicked on it. I joined here a few days ago, so I have no idea what you were rehashing for years, but the link in the video is pretty clear, if you choose to listen to ALL the words and not exclude ones that you don't like.

She actually didn't. Again the words are pretty clear, if the goal is to actually pay attention to what she said, if it's about attacking yet another female Democratic leader, then one must ignore what she actually said and what she clarified when her words were twisted.

I'm merely suggesting that you did not hear properly, since the characterization of what was said does not match what she actually said in the video in the link you provided.

Except you did not here, and please don't state directly that I'm somehow biased because I followed the link you provided and heard the words you chose to ignore. She didn't state that, that was you. The video has her actual words, so I'm not sure why the need to put that unpleasant and incorrect spin and the ad hominems.

That seems to be a common thread here among a certain group, who don't seem to enjoy being challenged and cannot handle the slightest disagreement without enacting scenes out of old Lyndsey Lohan movies.

I'm sorry that the video and the words spoken contradict your claims, but they are what they are and no amount of spin or personal attacks will change them or excuse what Bernie did or the mistake made with Mello. The desperation to deflect, deny, divide and denigrate seems to be the order of the day here, guess that's the how the Plastics work here.

[countryjake]

108. Welcome to DU!

[Ninsianna]

109. Thank you, but that doesn't really answer the question of why certain words

seem to have escaped your notice on a link you provided but chose not to listen to.

[beam me up scottie]

30. Good point!

I don't think either Pelosi, Sanders or Warren are threatening our rights. As long as a candidate agrees to support the civil rights in our platform I don't have a problem with them being endorsed by other Democrats.

[beam me up scottie]

28. My goodness, you wrote all of that in response to my positive post?

The last bill was opposed by people inspired by the Resistance movement,
I don't think the rallies had much to do with it.

Is that what you think? Those thousands of people who attended the rallies weren't inspired to call senators' offices and flood social media with their opposition? That they all went home after and that was the extent of their involvement? That they're not part of the Resistance? Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't share it. Schumer and Sanders had the right idea and they deserve credit for organizing the rallies and inspiring people to protest.

The senators are busy doing other things to deal with their colleagues who seem determined to push bad laws, the Resistance is doing the work, can we credit them?

You can credit whomever you like. Personally I am fully capable of crediting our senators, our congresspeople and those of us in the resistance all at the same time. But since this thread was about BERNIE I decided to give him a shout out.

You see we like to support our progressive senators on DU and you'll find Bernie is quite popular here along with Elizabeth Warren, Al Franken and many others.

They're actually even more inspired after the past week or so when things like the commitment to safeguarding human rights were threatened by Senator Sanders.

That's odd, I don't recall Bernie threatening my rights or anyone else's but if you can show me where he did such a despicable thing I'll be more than happy to call his office and give him a piece of my mind.

we need Bernie to confirm his commitment to fighting the right wing and their attacks on women

I don't need Bernie to reconfirm his commitment to my rights since he's never wavered from it. In fact Bernie's lifetime record on abortion rights is second to none and that's one of the reasons I still admire and support him. Bernie never once said he would be willing to compromise with Republicans or supported any restrictions on abortion - in fact his unwavering support for abortion rights often make him a target of right wing nutjobs who label him an extremist. If he ever decides to support abortion restrictions he'll lose me forever but I'm not at all worried about that since he's been committed to fighting for my rights for decades.

We can do somersaults and shake our pom-poms AFTER he helps the Dems do the will of the party's constituents and takes a leadership role in fighting our enemy not giving in on issues that are important to us.

Good for you! You can do somersaults and shake your pom poms whenever you like. As for me I'm going to give credit where it's due by simply expressing my appreciation for Bernie's efforts to save the ACA in this thread. Go Bernie!

I hope that the outcry over what was approved today will teach Bernie how wrong he was to endorse people who agree with these Republicans, this is what happens when we are not rigid on choice.

Why would Bernie think it's wrong to support a Democratic mayoral candidate over a Republican one in Nebraska? Isn't the goal to defeat Republicans in all 50 states? I may have to hold my nose to vote for someone with a mixed record but when you live in a red state you kind of get used to it. Where I live we don't have the luxury of sitting out elections waiting for someone with a perfect record.

And why shouldn't he endorse one pro-choice candidate over another in Virginia? Obama campaigned for Periello in 2010 and many of his staffers also recently endorsed him - I doubt they would have given him their blessing if he was a right wing extremist. I also doubt that NARAL would have given Tom a 100% rating if he was anti-choice. Both Northam and Periello are good candidates and no matter which one wins I'm sure either will be far preferable to their Republican opponent.

[arthritisR_US]

36. Well done!

[beam me up scottie]

41. Thank you!

[Ninsianna]

37. My goodness, you wrote all of that with quotes in response to my pointing out that

the positive work is being done by people other than a single Senator?

Yes, that is what I think. I guess you have not been paying attention to the groups that are actually engaged in activism? The indivisible groups organized by district, the Resistance groups, the various groups that splintered off from Pantsuit Nation who didn't need "rallies" to get them organized and making calls?

You actually think it was all Bernie and his rallies? Millions of people organized their own rallies literally all over the world, Bernie attended some, along with other Senators, they were behind us, they were not leading us and we didn't need their inspiration, we found that with each other. Most of us found each other DURING the election, when we saw what was happening and understood it for what it was. We also saw where the attacks were coming from, many of us were attacked ourselves not only by the obvious Right wingers, but people who were supposedly on the left. It opened our eyes and we shared our experiences, and we made our connections, we went in and worked our rears off to make phone calls and knock on doors.

We commiserated in that shock that followed. We saw the savagery and we knew what it was, and when we stopped grieving the loss, we organized. That's what we do. We didn't wait around for Bernie to get off his book tour to give us orders, we found each other, we planned, we knitted and we marched. We're the ones who inspired the Democrats, Bernie and Angus.

That was us. We deserve the credit for the work we do everyday. The calls we make, the messages WE spread the Town Halls we organize even when the Reps are too terrified to show up. WE are who terrify them. We're used to our work being ignored and that some are desperate to give credit for it to old white men who don't do much of it.

I prefer to credit the people doing the work not any single man who didn't do it, not even BERNIE with the pom poms agoing and the breathlessness. That's a lot of work put into disparaging someone for pointing out that people didn't need Bernie or Chuck or any other Senator to inspire us or give us orders, it's as if cheerleading is more important than giving the shout out to the women who make up the backbone of this party and this resistance, which is not affiliated with any branded PAC, and isn't devoted to singing the praises of just one man, in caps and underlined, no less.

Opinions are nice and all, but when they're about making false assertions to divert credit from the people doing the actual work, to the guy who just pissed them off, it feels a little less unifying, ya know? I mean, why do a song and dance about Bernie in a thread that makes some vague claim about him marshaling some army (who is he marshaling, where, how exactly?)

The soldiers fighting this battle aren't waiting around for Bernie to come tell us what to do, we're a little miffed that he thinks our rights are expendable. This isn't about Bernie. I don't know why people keep trying to make it into some cult of personality, when it's the party, the actual base that's doing all the work, and its leaders who are taking the lead here, Bernie is one of them, but this constant need to pretend it's all about him, while he says dumb stuff and does things without thinking them through ... it's pointless.

I can see that the DEMOCRATIC underground likes it's Democrats, it's why we're here after all, we like our Independents too, but we're also out there and we've been out there doing the damned work, without any of those people giving us orders or "inspiring" us. We're pretty damned inspired, we're angry and we're not going to let anyone get away with saying or doing things that piss us off. That goes for those in the Senate and House who we're cheering on in their jobs, on the floor. That's why we're miffed at Liz, and pissed off at Bernie and we do give credit where credit is due, Nancy, Chuck, the various Johns who have stepped up, Elijah, and Amy and Al!

I'm glad Bernie didn't do anything to your rights, he did however endorse a guy who violated the rights of the women who make up this party. He said this after he said we should not be rigid on choice, that's something that the women of this party do not appreciate. Yours might not have been negligible to Bernie, but for those of us women of reproductive age, OURS were. It's why you keep hearing so many of us expressing our anger at him. That loud din, of all those pink hatted women, we weren't out there for Bernie, we were out there for OUR rights. We were inspired by Hillary and Cecile Richards and Planned Parenthood, and our own anger at having an election stolen from us.

I'll leave the cheer leading to you, I'm busy with the rest of the women out on the filed fighting, and cheering Bernie on seems to be important to you, and if cheering on a single man is how you do your thing, go for it! I personally prefer to give credit to the ones doing the work, and to be out there working rather than sitting on the sidelines, but that's just me, thankfully I'm in good company with the millions of women who don't have the time for acrobatics.

Oh and the thing that Bernie did was make comments on Morning Joe and the trip he made to Omaha, where he endorsed a guy who was pro Keystone and introduced some terrible legislation, so please do give him a call and tell him that while he didn't do anything to harm you, the women in your life who heard him were not pleased, in case he didn't hear our voices.

He attacked a pro-choice House candidate, a vote against Trump while wasting time and money on a mayoral race. The goal is to prioritize where our resources go, and these were very different races, one with national impact, replacing a Republican with a pro-choice, progressive Democrat, and the other a local mayor that doesn't have any national impact, but whose record doesn't bode well for his city. His record was worse than the Republican he was running against, in such cases, that's an odd race to expend resources on.

If you're voting for someone who is actively working to deny you live saving medical care, holding your nose doesn't fly. Omaha, by the way, isn't a state. Congressional seat over a mayoral one. Some clear headed reasoning is needed here, Bernie wasn't engaging in that. He's a man, he makes mistakes, and he needs to be held accountable, ALL politicians do.

I didn't mention Virginia, so I'm unsure where that came from. Not everything is an attack, and some deep breaths and some calm is called for here. Nothing wrong with the pom poms but dial down the hyper-reactivity a bit, that's all that's called for.

Also, what exactly is Bernie doing to defend the ACA? I'd like to know, all I see is vague allusions to something, no actual specifics. Also, medicare for all is a nice catch phrase, but it's not really the best form of Single Payer, I think we can get there but we need to fix what's wrong right now with the ACA, actually defend it, and then do what the Republicans have failed to do: come up with a workable, well thought out plan to get to Single Payer.

Medicare as it is doesn't work well for the limited population it covers. So do we go with a Canada type plan, an UK NHS type, something better and different? This needs discussion, the pom poms and the somersaults get in the way of an actual reasoned debate, that shouldn't be about personalities, and we need the actual experts in the field to sit down with our electeds, any and all that will do it, to hash this out.

In the meantime, how about joining us in the Indivisible groups, the Resistance, and the numerous other groups that don't attend rallies and don't need to be "inspired" by a rehashed campaign speech. We don't have birds landing on us, and we're better groomed AND we're out there effecting change. If you're in or near a red district, find out when and where we're meeting tomorrow and join us!

[beam me up scottie]

39. That's a real nice collection of straw men! It looks oddly familiar...

Last edited Sat May 6, 2017, 06:07 AM - Edit history (1)

You actually think it was all Bernie and his rallies?

Can you point out where I said that? I just re-read my post and I don't see it.

Thanks in advance.

He attacked a pro-choice House candidate

Except Bernie didn't attack anyone. He simply said he didn't know if the house candidate was a progressive. Unless you define attack differently than I do that doesn't qualify.

If you want to see Bernie actually attack someone check out what he has to say about Trump. He doesn't exactly mince words.

If you're voting for someone who is actively working to deny you live saving medical care, holding your nose doesn't fly.

I wouldn't vote for someone like that, I specifically referred to a person with a mixed record so that's another straw man. I also wasn't aware that the candidate he endorsed was ACTIVELY working to deny me lifesaving care. In fact I believe Mello vowed to support our right to choose. He's not ideal but yes, I would vote for him over the Republican.

Also, what exactly is Bernie doing to defend the ACA? I'd like to know, all I see is vague allusions to something, no actual specifics.

You're free to Google his name and the ACA, there's plenty of articles available for those who haven't been keeping up. He's doing as much as anyone on our side can do at this point.

Also, medicare for all is a nice catch phrase, but it's not really the best form of Single Payer, I think we can get there but we need to fix what's wrong right now with the ACA, actually defend it, and then do what the Republicans have failed to do: come up with a workable, well thought out plan to get to Single Payer.

Actually it is the best form and many in the House and Senate finally agree with us. It's also possible to fight for the ACA and propose something better at the same time - like Medicare for all. Just ask Bernie or John Conyers.

This needs discussion, the pom poms and the somersaults get in the way

What is this strange obsession with pom poms and somersaults? Are you a cheerleader or something?

In the meantime, how about joining us in the Indivisible groups, the Resistance, and the numerous other groups that don't attend rallies and don't need to be "inspired" by a rehashed campaign speech.

I've probably been a member of the Resistance longer than you have, and since I've been a member longer I can assure you that's another straw man.

We don't need anyone to inspire us but it certainly doesn't hurt to have a loud progressive firebrand shouting encouragement and leading the way.

Thanks Bernie! Keep your comfortable shoes on, we're going to need them!

We don't have birds landing on us, and we're better groomed

Personally I'm a big fan of Einstein and others whose 'grooming' wasn't quite up to some folks' high standards either but then again I prefer substance over style. Frumpy suits and messy hair don't bother me in the least.

And the bird incident was kind of cool although I had forgotten all about it until just now. I really wish people would get over the primaries.

[Ninsianna]

43. Nope, no strawmen at all. But why so much animosity?

And is this yet more ad hominems with the allusions to trolls? More subtle than some of the others with the paranoid "All who disagree with me on Bernie are Russians!!!!11!".

Yes, actually I do have my priorities in order, and I can see that you do too. Mine are in the bits you chose to not put into a little gray box, your choices are telling.

Personally, I'm a big fan of what Einstein and his fellow scientists actually did in the lab, and not so concerned with his hair, or cheering (pom-poms or smelly socks, or whatever the popular accoutrements of the clique might be) about the one thing most people know about him.

Also, my high standards include focusing and responding to substance not making comments on the "style" by failing to catch an obvious joke, but people have different definitions about what is substantial, I suppose.

Not everyone is equipped to go on the field, so one must do one's best, even if it's not exactly helpful.

I'm pretty sure you've nothing to base any comparison about "whose been a member longer" of the resistance, you seem to have been quite busy here, with such detailed and extensively edited posts such as the two you've addressed to me and the others not so direct. However do you have the time?

Interesting what people find substantive and how little people understand rhetorical fallacies. Throwing around terms works for some people, but it's terrible argument, especially when your opponent has an actual understanding of them, as my debate coaches told me in high school.

So, my comfortable walking shoes are on the ready, and on behalf of all the women who haven't been busy talking hairstyles and competing about whose been on the team the longest, you're welcome, and stop calling us Bernie.

Oh and it's in your first paragraph, a very strong and unmistakable implication rife with deniability, but still quite clear. You're welcome again.

[beam me up scottie]

47. What animosity?

Last edited Fri May 5, 2017, 10:52 AM - Edit history (1)

Can you point out the animosity in my post or is it this another attempt to deflect?

And is this yet more ad hominems with the allusions to trolls? More subtle than some of the others with the paranoid "All who disagree with me on Bernie are Russians!!!!11!".

What are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure you've nothing to base any comparison about "whose been a member longer" of the resistance, you seem to have been quite busy here, with such detailed and extensively edited posts such as the two you've addressed to me and the others not so direct. However do you have the time?

How do I have the time? Since I originally only posted one sentence and you responded with quite a lengthy post that's a little ironic, isn't it? I was simply addressing your claims one at a time.

Throwing around terms works for some people, but it's terrible argument, especially when your opponent has an actual understanding of them, as my debate coaches told me in high school.

In a debate we are required to back up our claims with evidence and we're also supposed to avoid using fallacies like straw man arguments.

Speaking of straw men, did you locate the part of my post where I said I "actually think it was all Bernie and his rallies" yet? I'm still waiting for you to point that out to me.

So, my comfortable walking shoes are on the ready.

Well good for you! I welcome you to the Resistance and I'm sure Bernie will be happy to see you as well. He's had his comfortable shoes on for decades (not the same ones of course - they do wear out).

[Ninsianna]

56. Nope, the ad hominems here were most certainly not mine.

They weren't well concealed at all. Can I point to a tone, no.

I don't know what deflection is being attempted here, but I used no strawmen, so their creator should probably be consulted. False accusations of ad hominems are a part of that animosity though. A familiar tactic actually, ran into quite a lot of people on the Intertubes doing just this very thing. It's called projection and it's a favorite tactic among a certain set of internet denizens.

Indeed, in fact one should really stop using words one doesn't understand and can't back up, making such accusations falsely is in and of itself a fallacy and tends to generate that animosity I mentioned. Generally, if it can't be backed up, don't bring it up, don't insinuate it, don't backhandedly reference it, the judges don't like it. It's poor debate, and will cost you points.

Well, mine wasn't a novella, and the irony is not lost on me that the author of a novel length is complaining about length. Oh, I already explained about how the fallacy of vauge insinuations is used for deniability. Also a poor argument, where the message is clearly implied, and then the debater can then try to demand that the exact quoted terms are required as back up. Again, this is not a good tactic and tends to annoy the judges, lose points and alienate the audience, it comes off as a bit cheap and desperate. In policy debate, which is timed, wasting time on these types of antics proves that one has a poor case. Sometimes you don't have an option, if you have no argument, you can't refute a citation and your opponent has defeated you on a point, you have to fill those 8 minutes with something ya know? If you're prepared, know your stuff and understand the topic though, you don't have to fall back on these tactics, our coach would have had our hide if we pulled something like this even once. Just poor sportsmanship, ya know?

I don't really entertain strawmen, I also don't create them, I address point by point, so while I indulged you this time with yours, don't expect that to become a habit.

Gee, thanks for the welcome, but as I've explained, I'm not new to the resistance, Bernie hasn't been around much, but we'd welcome you both if you'd like to join us. As I said, we've got stuff planned tomorrow and you can come even if Bernie is busy shoe shopping or whatever, we've only been around for a few months, not decades.

Is that where the confusion is coming from? Nah, this isn't Bernie's thing, but you can come join us, leave the smelly socks at home though, there are usually a lot of us at our events, and well, smelly socks being waved around by confused people ... just kind of produces a toxic environment, you know?

Do join us, we do welcome everyone, even cheerleaders. We have lots of people who are fond of Bernie too, but Bernie himself isn't really out there with us, he's a Senator and is sort of busy on the Hill. I hope you're not disappointed if you come out tomorrow, I know people were all excited about Bernie, but hopefully they can be just as excited as joining us in our fight for progressive ideals, even if there isn't a headliner.

Please seek out these facebook groups that you didn't seem to know about, it's how we find, organize and inspire each other, we don't need "rallies" for that like the Trump folks do, nor someone giving us marching orders, we do that ourselves.

Seeking out like minded people in real life is an excellent way to deal with the pressures and stresses, and it seems like that relief valve is much needed.

It's all right, you'll be fine, this isn't a sprint, you don't need to exhaust yourself with the hippity hoppity emojis, the prickliness is only natural. We'll help you settle in for the long haul, this is a marathon, and lashing out isn't healthy, though I know we're all provoked. I'm not the enemy after all, there is no need for the poorly veiled animosity.



These smilies are fun, no wonder you're so fond of them. There are less agitated ones, ya know? Check them out, so much better for the blood pressure than the bouncy ones you seem drawn to.

[beam me up scottie]

62. So there was no animosity in the post.

I didn't read the rest because as much fun as this has been I simply don't have time to refute any more logical fallacies. The op is about Bernie trying to save the ACA and this sub-thread is completely off topic.

You're more than welcome to join us in the Resistance. We've been out here for years although we were known by other names in the past.


And go Bernie!

[countryjake]

64. Glimmering

[beam me up scottie]

65. Fabulous!

[stevenleser]

101. Well said and well debated throughout this thread!

[R B Garr]

75. Awesome post. To pick this apart and desperately change

the subject is just cowardly. Thanks for distinguishing the actual women's armies who organized themselves in response to the threat of Trump's presidency. No one man told them what to do -- I saw an army of women in that march and they managed that feat all by themselves through the Resistance because of what you said:
"We were inspired by Hillary and Cecile Richards and Planned Parenthood, and our own anger at having an election stolen from us." I remember the "Revolution" was more interested in promoting one man, but thanks to all the groups, anyway.

Great post!

[Nanjeanne]

92. +1000 and also -- oy vay. 😁

[delisen]

3. Golly, that Bernie is everywhere! He is 1-Man Army!

Have any action figures for sale?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

7. .

[Heartstrings]

78. I'd buy one of these Bernie Bears!

[delisen]

9. Very cute!

[stevenleser]

102. Well said. Those actually leading the charge here are Schumer, Schneiderman, Gillibrand

Barbara Lee among others.

[Trial_By_Fire]

4. Nothing more important than your health...

My depression era father always said that to me....

[Dream Girl]

6. I thought it was DOA in the Senate anyway...

[elleng]

8. No such thing. Listen to Senator VanHollen on Lawrence show tonight;

he has concerns.

[JI7]

10. things can always change

[GulfCoast66]

11. Glad Bernie is doing so...

Along with every single Democratic Party Senators. The leader which is a Democrat.

[smirkymonkey]

12. Go Bernie!

Let them have it!

[Motownman78]

13. I am beginning to think they should pass it.

And that is from my perspective as having a pre-existing condition. The only way to get the rural voters head out of their backside is if they actually feel how disastrous Republican Health Care is to them personally.

[Ninsianna]

23. This is a dangerous mindset, it's the one that people who were

encouraging third party voters, like Susan Sarandon were doing. I understand the impulse, but it's going to be torture for many people if this thing should pass. I'm not sure what your pre-existing condition is, but for many who are already diagnosed, it's not something they might survive. I also don't trust these people to put the blame in the proper place, they tend to not be so willing to accept facts and are easily led.

I worry even more so about the people who have been putting off doctor's appointments and screening tests to avoid being labelled as having a preexisting condition. They might not survive the undetected cancers, the soaring blood sugar levels etc. that they are afraid to get diagnosis and treatment for.

[JNelson6563]

14. Here's how we can help

Senators will watch and see what happens to House members after this vote. Today's word is blow-back.

[G_j]

21. that's right

[countryjake]

27. Exactly! Carpe Diem! n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

93. Fast and Hard. Absolutely right

Here is an example. If anyone lives within an hour or two of NY's Mid Hudson Valley. This is something you can do this Sunday afternoon to help oust a first time Republican Congressman in NY's 19 CD:

https://actionnetwork.org/events/ny-19-votes-spring-canvass

Training is offered, out of district canvassers are welcome. Pre-screened voter addresses and canvass routes are provided.

[JNelson6563]

98. This is great!

We're all getting organized and busy!

Good to see you Tom.

[Tom Rinaldo]

100. Yes we are. Good to see you too Julie n/t

[dalton99a]

15. We need millions in the streets

[Wounded Bear]

20. We need millions in the voting booth...

FIFY

[Ninsianna]

24. Well, those won't be set up for some time, execept in places like Georgia and a few others

so, those of us not registered to vote in those districts can get out into the streets, the town halls, the congressional offices and set up camp on the phone lines.

Oh and get started with the canvassing, the voter registration, making sure everyone has the necessary IDs and are involved in the process NOW.

Sound good?

[Wounded Bear]

94. Yep, have at it...exactly what is needed...

especially in districts that have been ignored by the DNC/DCCC. I live in a VBM state, so less of the "set-up" costs here.

I may need to help out in a neighboring red didstrict. Mine is pretty blue, and probably not in danger.

[frazzled]

16. I think Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin have got this one

But knock yourselves out.

[stevenleser]

103. Yep. nt

[pnwmom]

17. Okay, so I read the whole thing and

I didn't see anything about how he was building the army.

[Nevernose]

25. I'm sure he's trying to activate his voter base

Because Sanders' base is louder and more active than most, but you are absolutely right: the article headline said "building an army" and then proceeded with a fluff piece about how Sanders feels about Tumpcare.

I'm glad if he's out there getting people riled up to save our health coverage, but the article itself is kind of a piece of shit.

[sammythecat]

96. Poor headline, seen all the time

on the internet.

The abomination passed by the House now goes to the Senate. Let's just hope for all the help we can get and hope like hell they're successful. This is life or death for a lot of people.

[Binkie The Clown]

18. Who cares? He's not ideologically pure, so he's our enemy.

(Or so many here would say.)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

42. I'm with you. Bernie is a true leader... gotta love him! Go Bernie!!!

[beam me up scottie]

50. +1

[AgadorSparticus]

19. Whatever. It. Takes......Git er done!!

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Kick and Rec for SENATOR BERINE SANDERS! FIGHTING FOR US!

So glad we have Bernie Sanders, a true progressive hero, standing up for what is right!

[beam me up scottie]

32. Bartender, a round of pom poms for everyone!

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Dammit, and wouldn't you know it--- I left mine at home!

Think these would work, instead?

[beam me up scottie]

34. Why yes, I believe those will do just fine!

Although that drawer must be getting pretty empty by now.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. You know, I can't figure out how it works

but there just seems to be an endless supply of them!

[beam me up scottie]

40. Isn't that weird?

And they're all so much alike.

[Ninsianna]

38. Or just not wave around smelly things? That might be nice too.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. But if they didnt smell

They wouldnt be so easy to find in the dark!

[Ninsianna]

45. That's an odd way to avoid turning on a light. Plus, if you're simply

sniffing around for some foul smell, and your drawer is empty, how would you differentiate or locate anything? Wouldn't the stench just render you effectively blind?

Laundry and a light bulb, are my suggestions for you Fewer toxic fumes and bruised shins.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. they turn up in odd places, thats the issue.

If they would just stay in the dryer, it would be a different story. But someone taught these fuckers how to drive, go to the library, what have you.

[beam me up scottie]

48. THEY LIVE!!!

[Ninsianna]

49. Your smelly socks can drive and go to the library?

See, if you washed them more, they'd not be teeming with life and being taught by someone in your house to do stuff.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Oh, They're definitely not mine

Thats what makes it even worse!

[Ninsianna]

52. I can only hope you don't live alone. Do they photoshop creepy photos of themselves?

[Warren DeMontague]

53. Fortunately for me, I try to find the humor in most things.

Can be difficult, these days.

Sometimes I watch the news and think we're in a horror movie, sometimes its a bad tom clancy novel, but mostly it seems to be a Washington DC version of "dude wheres my car"

[Ninsianna]

58. I think you're maligning the dudes in that movie (which I've also thankfully not seen)

they're not as dumb as this bunch. I've often thought that one needed to lobotomize oneself to be a right winger, just based on what the were saying. Since Pence and Mccarthy started getting media attention, I'm starting to wonder if there is an actual procedure that's done.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Yeah, someone's gonna need to invent a new idiom to replace "lowering the bar"

They've, like, raised the bar on lowering the bar.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. Maybe we all ARE the same person.

Anyway, I wasn't calling anyone anything, I was making a general observation based upon (among other things) my multiple terms on MIRT- and yeah, socks and zombies are just as real as snarks and grumpkins and white walkers beyond the wall, Tyrion Lannister.

Beyond that, while I salute and certainly don't doubt your excellent memory, I've been here 13 years and I've been called everything from a right-wing troll to a russian bot (although, admittedly, that's a newer one)

I'm neither of those things, but, hey, what do I fucking care. There are certainly folks here who obsessively want to control what goes on inside other peoples' heads, but I'm not one of the ones who gets off on that.

Not my bag.

[betsuni]

57. I've deleted my post because I don't want another removed post.

Wrong is wrong.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. It is.

Im usually right, though.

Not always, but pretty frequently.

[beam me up scottie]

63. Yep.

You usually are. I think it comes from years of experience.

[beam me up scottie]

69. You think Hello Cthulhu is Hello Kitty?

Oh my dog I needed that laugh, thanks!

[beam me up scottie]

72. Yeah you might want to Google that before you continue.

It was a good webcomic but I don't want to ruin it for you.

[beam me up scottie]

74. Unless she's green, has wings and tentacles instead of whiskers - then she's Hello Cthulhu.

Kitty:





Cthulhu:

[beam me up scottie]

77. Hello Cthulhu eats that kind for breakfast. Then she picks her teeth with their bones.

Hello Kitty... I wish Modem Butterfly was here to appreciate this.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. vitamin B and water.

You'll thank yourself, tomorrow.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. You're damn right.

I'm an expert on all manner of things, unfortunately most of them useless.

I wish that my borderline psychic abilities could be put to some shit like gleaning the powerball numbers, instead of ... well, you know.

But I'm like dogs and babies- an excellent judge of character!

[betsuni]

91. Unfortunately, this is incorrect.

Last edited Fri May 5, 2017, 10:00 AM - Edit history (1)

You are not a dog or a baby. You're calling me a drunk. Why? Threatened? Because I'm creative? Because I don't spew out buzzwords and think for myself and am funny? Sad!

[Warren DeMontague]

99. I didn't call you anything.

I did think it a bit odd the way you dropped into this thread like Batman spoiling for fights on weird stuff like Hello Kitty, but whatever. I was kind of enjoying the back and forth, there.

[beam me up scottie]

86. She's the reason I've had Hello Cthulhu in my sig line for almost 12 years, it's a tribute.

Those sure were good times.

Hee hee. Thanks for the giggles but I have to feed some hungry horses before they stage a revolt.

At least you know who Hello Cthulhu is now.

[Warren DeMontague]

81. For someone so oddly obsessed with that topic, you should at least get your facts right.

In 2014 it was all about the butts. You couldnt even see their boobs.

Dont believe me? Google it. You'll see that, once again, I'm correct.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Yeah it was, that absolutely was the one that set off the great DU Sports Illustrated war of 2014.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10024498713

[HoneyBadger]

67. Thank you Bernie

He is always on the front lines

[Luciferous]

79. Go Bernie!

[MuseRider]

83. All hands on deck!

I am so glad we do not have to wait for one person or one organization to be out there talking about this. Any and all on our side. I bet a Republican speaking out about this would get a cheer, a short one just for this but WITH pom poms.

Keep on keeping on Bernie. Another loud voice for our side!

[demmiblue]

90. Well, this has been an interesting thread!

Anyway, Go Bernie!

[heaven05]

95. anyone fighting

for poor and minorities right to life, in that house of snakes called 'leaders', is a plus.

[disillusioned73]

97. K&R..

an army is needed..

[George II]

105. Chuck Schumer was already organizing the Democrats against the not-yet-written bill.

Is Sanders organizing against the House bill? That's not even going to be considered by the Senate.

[Trial_By_Fire]

107. Keep up the great work Senator Sanders!

As always, Sanders is doing is job and fighting for all Americans...