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Fri May 5, 2017, 08:48 AM

At the eve of the french election le pen destroyed in the debate with macron

There was a televised debate wednesday on french tv between Le Pen and Macron. It turned into a disaster for the front national and their candidate. She was unable to articulate a coherent message on anything of importance.

Her strategy, not unlike Trump was to fling insults at Macron. This backfired as he was able to recenter the debate on issues such as the place of France in Europe and its political and economic ties. Macron, being a former economy minister was in control of the subject unlike Le Pen who was just spouting prepared slogans.

Amongst the front national there is now the perception that this election was a missed opportunity and they are focusing on trying to get to 40 % ( currently polls have it at 63 macro 37 le pen ) in order to salvage enough momentum for the legislative ( equivalent of our mid term congress elections ).


One amongst the many replies Macron used during the debate :



Vous ne proposez que du vent aux salariés, vous profitez de la détresse des gens, vous jouez avec leurs colères, vous leur mentez»



You are just making empty promise to the workers, you exploit people's distress, you play with their anger , you lie to them.


Direct, with no sugarcoating. He also dubbed her " la grande pretresse de la peur" , the high priestress of fear...

my prediction ? Macron will get over 60 % of the votes sunday.





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Reply At the eve of the french election le pen destroyed in the debate with macron (Original post)
drray23 May 2017 OP
dalton99a May 2017 #1
woodsprite May 2017 #2
drray23 May 2017 #4
Sculpin Beauregard May 2017 #11
karynnj May 2017 #16
Tommy_Carcetti May 2017 #3
woodsprite May 2017 #6
Tommy_Carcetti May 2017 #15
Ligyron May 2017 #18
world wide wally May 2017 #10
karynnj May 2017 #17
boston bean May 2017 #5
drray23 May 2017 #9
Orsino May 2017 #7
Eyeball_Kid May 2017 #8
Doreen May 2017 #12
itcfish May 2017 #13
tblue37 May 2017 #14
Ligyron May 2017 #19
tblue37 May 2017 #20

Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:51 AM

1. Excellent summary of Le Pen

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:52 AM

2. Remember, Hillary wiped the floor with Trump at every single debate.

BUT, France doesn't have anything like the electoral college, does it? Maybe that would mean that Putin would have to get so deep into messing with votes, that it wouldn't work in France.

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Response to woodsprite (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:53 AM

4. no it does not. its one person, one vote for president.nt.

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Response to woodsprite (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:12 AM

11. France also holds elections on a WEEKEND DAY. USA needs election reform in a bad, bad way.

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Response to woodsprite (Reply #2)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:18 AM

16. Hillary was never 20 points ahead and Macron does not have her high negatives

I agree that Hillary did better in all the debates - but suspect that, unlike in France, in the US, there were two "teams" that were much closer in size and a smaller number on the fence. I would bet that BOTH sides here saw polarized versions of the debates - especially the last one. Both likely saw their nominee land blows they thought worked. In the last debate, both really really went after each other.

From the various things I read (in English) of the debate, Macron - even as he called her out for lies, was described as cool and calm and very willing to give complex answers to the economic questions. Hillary was angrier than Macron -- and Le Pen, like Trump gave him plenty of reason to be angry. However, the big difference was that he always was favored to pick up the lion share of the votes of those who were for someone other than him or Le Pen.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:52 AM

3. Hillary destroyed Trump in all three debates.

Fortunately for Macron, the margin of polling is a lot higher for him so hopefully that will play out this weekend.

But it absolutely kills me how incredibly superior Hillary was to Trump in every single debate, and yet how things ended up in the end.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:56 AM

6. It makes me feel sick and queasy every single day since the election when I think of it. n/t

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Response to woodsprite (Reply #6)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:03 AM

15. As dominant as she was, it's hard to watch footage of the debates now.

Because of how much she said fell on deaf ears.

Including this:




Hillary Clinton is the American Cassandra.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #15)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:45 AM

18. By Zeus, that's the truth, isn't it?

Knows the future but can't do anything about it.

Cosmic irony.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:10 AM

10. That says a whole lot about American voters, doesn't it?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #3)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:45 AM

17. I think that debates can only do so much

In the US, many people are not going to change their "side" - no matter how weaker the debater was. Not to mention, Trump was sort of not even playing the normal role for a candidate. Here's a really nice article, written before the first 2016 GE debate that shows where the Democrat polled before the first debate versus after the third. https://www.vox.com/2016/9/12/12847632/debates-trump-clinton-polls-political-science You can see that only the Carter/Ford debate and the Dukakis/Bush (which the article ignores) showed a major shift. Obama 2008 was the next biggest shift, but the article explains that the economy was unravelling at that point and that could have been why. There was also probably had a small effect in 2004 in Kerry's favor and 1984 in Bush's favor .

I think graphing this is fascinating, but it is hard to see the actual point because of how big the two numbers are. There had to be a better way to indicate -- maybe by using a dot and adding the labels or making the font smaller and part of the grid bigger. I don't know why he took the second debate as the end point rather than the third (or last).

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:54 AM

5. sounds familiar.. they are ginning up the dumb vote.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #5)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:05 AM

9. yes it is.

however while the front national is very noisy and always in the news during elections they are never as sucessfull as our right wingers over here.


For example there are about 36000 mayor in France. Of those only 14, yes fourteen are held by the front national...


Now, because of the proportional system for the french and european assemblies they have around 30 to 40 reps, not enough to do anything of note because most major parties do not want to ally with them given how toxic they are.

This enable them however, to stay in the news and gin up their base. Lately because of brexit and us electing Trump, they have surged enough to end up at the second round of the elections. That in itself is shocking but I think that is pretty much all they can achieve.


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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:56 AM

7. She left FN to help her win the election.

You'd think the rank-and-file would take that as a betrayal, even if a few understood the nod-and-wink. She may find herself without a job very soon.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:00 AM

8. The French people, in general, pride themselves on the uniqueness of their cultural

and political identity.

That the French would support Le Pen, as a stooge of Putin, runs counter to their historical and social fabric. The French don't like to be perceived as ruled by a foreign power. That's what Le Pen offers.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:52 AM

12. If the French hate trump then they will be smart not to

vote for La Penn as she is just a trump with a vagina. I am hoping the high percentage for Macron stays and goes up. The percentage for Hillary was high until right at the very end. It was like it just switched like a light being turned off. I hope France can fair better than we did.

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:54 AM

13. Well Hillary

destroyed Trump in all the debates and look who is in the Oval office. I hope your prediction is correct and the French are a bit more enlightened than Americans

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Response to drray23 (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:57 AM

14. Hillary similarly destroyed Trump in the debates, her policy command vs. his

ignorance and incoherence, but the American voters interpreted the debate as a win for Trump each time.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #14)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:53 AM

19. They don't want a reasoned debate.

They want WWE Smackdown.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #19)

Fri May 5, 2017, 12:06 PM

20. WWE--exactly. And of course Trump performed at WWE. That is exactly his

wheelhouse.

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