Are You a Tesla Fan? Count the People in this Assembly Video.

[MineralMan]

You might change your mind.

[yallerdawg]

1. Henry Ford decimated the 'buggy whip' industry.

We can't fight the future - which actually makes all of our lives 'better.'

But - when we get replaced by automation, technology and robots - we have to also receive the 'financial benefit.' We have to claw back the money the elites have been accumulating, since robots don't really enjoy "riding around in my automobile."

Henry Ford knew - you have to create your customers, too!

[wasupaloopa]

47. The model T bodies were made by buggy companies.

There many car companies at the time but Henry Ford wanted to make a sr that his employees could

[Jacoby365]

2. 160 robots. 3000 factory employees.

Yes, I am a Tesla fan.

[TheBlackAdder]

38. I like Teslas too. I know their sales process is far better than the American dealerships I got mine

[TCJ70]

3. Automation isn't bad. It's the future.

Our response to it is what matters.

[Foamfollower]

4. Factory jobs are never coming back.

Last edited Fri May 5, 2017, 12:27 PM - Edit history (1)

They are going to become rarer and rarer, globally.

The thing about technology is, it always advances and it always allows more work to be done with fewer man-hours.

[Warpy]

43. I don't think people miss the jobs so much

The work was mind numbing, repetitive, soul crushing, and wrecked the body. Nobody's going to miss that.

What people miss are the camaraderie at work and the living wages.

The next century is going to be interesting as the rich find the population dispossable and the population reacts.

[PsychoBabble]

55. THAT might be the understatement of ....

.. the century!

"The next century is going to be interesting as the rich find the population dispossable ... and the population reacts."

Like saying a nuclear device makes a little "pop."

[TheBlackAdder]

46. I attended a symposium on future income,taking my son. In the US-the future is Intellectual Property

[FLPanhandle]

5. A quick look at other car manufactuers

Nissan


Ford


GM


Mercedes



Robots are an integral part of all manufacturers and they produce a more consistent and better quality product in most cases.

[DrDan]

6. so we should strive for inefficiency?

[Sailor65x1]

7. Do you enjoy your children and grandchildren

riding in much safer vehicles?

Do you want environmentally sound vehicles with high energy efficiency?

Do you enjoy vehicles that work better and last far longer than a relatively short time ago?

We all do, and human beings are incapable of the level of precision, quality, and repeatability that automation and robotics bring to the process.

It's human nature to fear/hate what we don't understand, but technology is not always your enemy.

[PsychoBabble]

59. Our "enemy" is our current inability/refusal to ...

... engage in serious cultural/economic discussions about an automated future in which there are NOT enough jobs to support a Consumer economy.

This has never existed.

It will require deep thinking, and significant changes.

Old cultural ideologies, such as "traditional work-ethic," will be a millstone around our necks.

[rollin74]

8. looks like a modern assembly line

[lunasun]

9. Yes & others can't depend on what's gone when there is so much need in the future

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/desperately-seeking-workers-the-looming-job-crunch/

No ther won't be a lot of coal jobs or low level assembly in a multitude of areas, but there will be jobs .
May not be what your daddy and granddaddy did and their company clout not as important as job training but there are trade jobs in the future.


Education is where we are losing right now IMO not automation

[Foamfollower]

10. Hammer. Nail. Head.

There is no problem faced by any nation in which the solution does not contain some level of education.

[HughBeaumont]

22. Awesome.

Where do they get the 5-6 digit COST that piece of paper requires - in the money tree out back, or their asses?

Meanwhile, how do they feed/clothe/shelter themselves while getting this piece of paper?

[Bradical79]

27. Like Lunasun said

we're losing when it comes to education.

[okieinpain]

11. but, but, but this is what i keep saying when

people say bring the jobs back. what freakin jobs. WAKE DA FUCC UP!. great post love tesla.

[Blue_Tires]

12. Looks like any other modern auto assembly plant?

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. It's really simple, MineralMan

If liberals like it, all is forgiven.

Liberals tend to love Teslas, so automation is fine. Workers be damned.

Liberals also tend to prefer Apple products, so Apple is free to park billions overseas to avoid taxes.

Just put the liberal stamp of approval on it, and all is forgiven.

[DanTex]

18. It's even more simple that that. Automation is a good thing.

[BannonsLiver]

20. +1 It's always interesting to me

When people advocate for regression in technology.

[DanTex]

21. Well, I will say, technology and automation are different things.

Automation is a subset of technology.

And I don't necessarily believe that technology is always good. For example, was the development of nuclear weapons good? Or even, is Facebook overall a good thing for society or bad? I'm not saying it's bad (or good), just that there can be legitimate arguments there.

But I don't see any real argument against automation. Basically, it means we can have more stuff with the same or less amount of work. Yes, there will be people who lose jobs, and those people need to be taken care of, but for society overall, having machines that can do stuff is a good thing.

[JoeStuckInOH]

24. I've read positive arguments for nuclear weapons...

On a short timeline, it's estimated that the development of nuclear weapons has greatly curtailed the number of casualties in war. When large powerful nations are forced to fight each other in conventional direct battlefield combat ... hundreds of thousands of people will die each year and entire cities are destroyed or occupied along the war march. With mutual assured destruction, post-nuclear conflicts tend to subsist of third-world proxy wars involving much fewer casualties, by comparison.

Despite the astronomical human population and military sizes compared to the pre-nuclear eras, there have been fewer battle deaths over the last decade than any other 10-year average since World War II.


In the long run however... just hope everyone doesn't decide use them. Cause then everyone dies.

[DanTex]

25. I have too.

Arguably, the existence of nuclear weapons is one of the things that prevented a WW3. On the other hand, like you said, with nuclear weapons, if there is a WW3, it could be the end of the human race.

My point in my last post was that there are instances of technological advancement where the benefit to humanity is arguable. But I don't think that factory robotics is one of those instances.

[onenote]

57. Someone builds the robots

And if robots start building the robots, then someone will be building the robots that build the robots. Automation doesn't mean all jobs go away; in some instances, it creates new jobs.

Overall, it may mean fewer people in the manufacturing workforce, but that's hardly a new trend.

[ksoze]

14. Be more worried about the manufacturer name on the robots

It the technology gap that will hurt us - as other nations excel in math and engineering, our lead will diminish as we relay on the tech devices designed elsewhere.

[BannonsLiver]

15. It is what it is.

Automation is here to stay. We can pretend boycotting Tesla or other companies that are heavy into automation will change things but it won't. I'd at least listen to the salesman's pitch on one, but I'm more of a Honda guy. And they use a helluva lot of automation as well in their production.

Automation:

[DanTex]

16. Why would that change anyone's mind?

Is efficient manufacturing a bad thing?

[oasis]

17. Interesting eye opener.. For me it has the feel of a sci-fi movie trailer.

I have no technology expertise whatsoever, but I can't see much hope for those looking to find work on assembly lines.

[HughBeaumont]

23. This thread's hilarious.

"Adapt or die" is something a Republican would say.

Are OUR party's economic solutions going to be "Thoughts and Prayers", gofundmes, "bootstraps!", mortgage-expensive colleges or "Gee, hope your gamble pans out!"??

Because if they are, keep on yelling "PONIES!!!" and wonder why you lose elections.

[DanTex]

26. What's funny is that nobody in this thread said "adapt or die".

Seriously, do you think people should dislike Tesla because they have a highly automated manufacturing process?

[HughBeaumont]

33. Not the exact phrase, but the tone is implied.

People shouldn't pretend Automation isn't a hot-button issue; especially since, short of expensive technical degrees and years of applied experience, it promises to eliminate great swaths of moderately skilled-to-HS-educated labor out of the picture completely. America having next to no solution in dealing with this displacement other than cute buzzwords, "thoughts and prayers" and hoping whatever crapshoot the displaced choose on their own pans out . . . doesn't make the problem go away.

Tesla is considered a "company of the future"; one that apparently expects people to buy their product but laughs at the expectation that they're gainfully employed enough TO buy it.

I'm far from a Luddite . . . quite the contrary, I thought America would have been smart enough to see this problem coming, but I guess I was wrong.

[DanTex]

42. Nobody said "thoughts and prayers" either.

The OP was suggesting that maybe seeing Tesla's highly automated factory floor would make people dislike Tesla. Why should it?

Yes, you are right that automation will eliminate many jobs. Yes, you are right that as a nation we need a solution to that. What does that have to do with Tesla?

[HughBeaumont]

45. THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. THE. OP.

It's about the responses TO the OP.

[Ezior]

30. The left's answer to automation still needs to be found

This is an international issue, it affects every country.

A few years ago, the left's answer to automation was "MORE EDUCATION!". Of course, after robots took over more and more production jobs, you could still get a job in some office as some kind of clerk if you could use a computer.

But those jobs are now mostly going away, too. Everything is self-service, algorithm-based, pure software, etc.

Looks like the number of jobs for people who are not very skilled (and/or not very talented) will decline even more in the future. A few will remain, like nursing and child care. The number of jobs for highly skilled workers is not unlimited, either. We only need a limited number of rocket scientists, robot engineers, journalists or software developers.

Thinking that we can employ 7 billion people in the future is pretty dumb, in my opinion.



Now the big problem is: LABOR used to be the main method to extract money out of the people who, through some way or other, have that money in their possession. Naturally, money flows from poor people to rich people through interest payments and ROI. Everyone else then needs some way to get some money back from those who have too much of it. Labor worked great, because it helped both sides. Now that labor is less and less useful, we need other ways to take money from those who have it and give it to those who need it (but can't find a reasonable job). That means TAXES! Yep. Wellfare state. Basic income grant. Socialist/communist policies. How do we get these things? I don't know. Once unemployment rates go up and labor can no longer be used to sustain a normal live, "something gotta give".

[HughBeaumont]

36. "Something" is likely going to be bloodshed.

Theirs and/or ours.

Wealthy people never get the point unless they're running for their lives. Americans keep continually finding them safe spaces and finish lines.

[joshcryer]

62. We're going to need a universial basic income.

And it's going to suck because the people we keep electing don't really see it, they believe in their antiquated "work ethic," and selfishness not morality or compassion. Everyone is being erased form the productive work force. And there is nothing that can stop it.

[physioex]

32. Hilarious....

I don't understand this fascination in both parties for mind numbing hard physical labor. One side supposedly supports coal miners the other supposedly supports lug nut installers (a lot for the next generation to aspire). However the one thing they both have in common is the delusion these occupations will sustain the typical American middle class standard of living.

[HughBeaumont]

40. Because the hard physical labor used to PAY well?

That's the difference between the FDR-Nixon era and this one - Our union forefathers fought to make these bad jobs good, with benefits.

The NEW "bad/dirty jobs" DON'T pay well and have lousy benefits. Retail (where shut-out former blue collar workers go now) is following the same path their well-paying blue collar work did - automating them out of existence.

Small wonder where you're going to extract the spending needed to keep Re-Branded Feudalism breathing, but it's not likely going to be unemployed workers or the robots that permanently displaced them.

[JHan]

34. It depends on your future outlook.

I want menial factory labor jobs to disappear. I see zero benefits to having people work in high-risk conditions or doing back breaking work. I yearn for the day when we have a universal basic income, universal healthcare, and economics powered by green energy.

This trend of advanced tech making jobs redundant started in the 70's, was masked by jobs switching over to the service sector in the 90's thereabouts, and got an uptick in the 00's. We don't help people if we deny what is happening around us, so yes we do have to adapt. Labor participation rates are falling, field work is scarce even on oil rigs which are automated. The technology that makes automation possible is the same technology that makes computers more efficient and has scientists pursuing projects and goals designed to improve the quality of human life, ideas deemed unthinkable or impossible just 2 decades ago. You cannot change the problem if we can call it that, but you can provide better solutions to the problem and this is where we differ from republicans - in problem-solving. The social dividend is more critical than it ever has been, yet Americans rewarded a man who said wages are too high to the Presidency.

We can't deny the singularity anymore. Exponential progress will happen whether we want it to or not. You cannot stop the development of intelligent systems, and the resistance to this reality means we end up focusing less on adapting and instead sow seeds of doubt and discord almost guaranteeing terrible outcomes because of obstinacy. In so doing we may even stymy developments that could solve difficult problems caused by our own follies. We must take control of our evolution not deny ourselves its promise.

[physioex]

39. Continuous evolution of the workforce...

Take that back further and 95% of use would be working Agriculture. Now I think it is less than 5%.

[JHan]

41. Exactly. +++

[HughBeaumont]

44. That's all fine and dandy, were it not for the suited Satans running us.

Yet . . . .

* College remains ridiculously expensive.
* 401ks are not panning out (if one even has one).
* The upper middle classes and above (and many below) would never ever EVER consider giving up one red CENT of their tax dollars to fund a Universal Basic Income.
* Neither party has much of a plan to aid displaced workers.
* Neither party is proposing a Universal Basic Income.
* Neither party is proposing a health care plan that isn't chain-tethered to how gainfully they're employed.
* "Green, green, green" all you want . . . it's simply not being invested in ENOUGH. It's not widespread enough to make any kind of impact to replace destructive fossil fuels.
* Displaced workers don't have TIME to "evolve or get left behind" . . . there is only NOW and these skyrocketing bills in front of them that aren't going away.
* Technical training, like a second language, takes YEARS to fully master, especially if one isn't already math-inclined.

Saying "Beware, you can't stop it!" . . . it's nothing but abject cruelty in the face of a reality that refuses to help. We're just not doing ENOUGH and it's looking like America keeps on choosing "future hellscape" over "nice things".

[JHan]

50. We have to create better memes and we have to understand the terrain.

Who are our enemies? What methods have they used to shape narratives?

The Kochs and their allies have poured billions into turning people's cognitive errors against themselves, where they say nonsense like "take government out of my Medicaid" . They have successfully managed to demonize Government, and our response must be to focus on the virtues of government.

I know that I won't get any of what I want unless we win these arguments, which will require we make better effective memes because the social contract is already baked in democratic policy. We need greater focus on causes and outcomes, not personalities

As for personalities, there's even a ray of light here - follow Ro Khanna: He comes from the tech industry and already wants to bring a bill to Congress that will be the first of its kind that makes a case for a UBI.

You cannot honestly say nothing has been done by Democrats in these areas. Under the Obama Administration there was an investment in renewable technologies, the status quo as it existed just a year ago, acknowledged climate change, acknowledged the threat of automation, heck Obama talked about it in his final address. Clinton articulated the challenges several times in her speeches. You need leadership that is aware of the problem, will work on solutions, but presidential leadership is impotent without congressional support, especially if there are no moderate republicans willing to work with democrats but wish to cut the social safety net. This is what democrats need to understand on the ground. What we don't do is stick our heads in the sand and pretend it's not happening, hoping the mess will all go away.

These things will not happen overnight, they will require incremental change. What you don't do is sabotage that progress.

[hunter]

67. I'd much rather see robots paint cars than people paint cars.

That was not a safe environment to work in, and it was one of the first assembly line processes given over to robots.

Workers who painted ANYTHING in the pre-OSHA pre-EPA world didn't live as long as their peers.

[WePurrsevere]

28. It's not just Tesla... "Robots & AI To Wipe Out 5.1 Million Jobs By 2020"....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/01/22/world-economic-forum-robots-and-artificial-intelligence-to-wipe-out-51-million-jobs-by-2020_n_9047988.html

5.1 million by 2020... less then 3 yrs now... and as each year passes an increasing amount of human jobs will disappear.

Assembly lines, automation and computerized have been around for decades now. I hate the idea of so many jobs lost but I also don't see how we can realistically put that genie back in the bottle unless we make robots and AI illegal and I don't see that happening unless we have a cataclysmic event of some sort do you?

As a solution to what is going to increasingly become a huge unemployment problem, if things continue moving along on the same course, the idea of a universal living wage looks like it might eventually be something governments will need to seriously consider...
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-universal-basic-income-2017-2

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. It takes a lot of people in the background to keep a line like that running. It's interesting to see

that level of automation at a plant that makes so few cars.

[MindPilot]

51. yeah that's the thing

Behind those 3000 people on the factory floor, are probably 10,000 coders, programmers, and technicians keeping it all running.

[HughBeaumont]

53. i.e. "not the people their product displaced"*.

*Unless they were somehow already math-inclined and could afford the training (easier done in the 1990s than now).

THAT'S the problem.

[GoCubsGo]

31. Who builds the robots?

[Bradical79]

68. Robots -nt

[Orrex]

35. Silly me...

I thought that a team of trained artists personally carved each and every Tesla out of living rock, hand-quarried from fair trade property and assembled with only 100% recyclable non-GMO gluten-free vegan-friendly materials.

[BannonsLiver]

37. Zing!

[MindPilot]

48. What about Nichole, who used to staff the Fotomat booth in the corner of the 7-11 parking lot?

Here is the big elephant in the room that everyone ignores. It used to be that someone with lower than average intelligence could find a good job at the car plant or the steel mill, work there for most of their life and then retire.

Those kinds of jobs are now few and far between, and our economy can no longer absorb the less intellectually gifted among us.

That is the problem that needs to be solved. Improving education will go a long way to helping, but we really need to consider something like a universal minimum income as well as government jobs programs.

[PsychoBabble]

60. Eugenics, anyone?

I am just waiting for a party to start overtly pushing THAT one in the USA as this trend steamrolls our economy. Guessing it will NOT be the Dems, either.

MindPilot makes a good practical point. I AM an educator -- but Education will not make THIS particular challenge go away.

[HAB911]

49. To paraphrase a heartless Rethuglican

Automation and AI is a lot like rape

You just need to relax and enjoy it (you can't stop it)





Like the coal miners in WV need to learn solar and wind technologies, factory workers need to learn how to program robots

I spent 45 years installing telephone circuit switched central offices across the nation, today those offices are being retired out of service and replaced with a server somewhere. Nothing stays the same.

[Adrahil]

52. Why would I change my mind?

Perhaps we should try to order the tide not to come in too. Automation is happening. It cannot be stopped. We can only affect how we react to it.

[brooklynite]

54. When was the last time an Operator placed your phone call?

[MineralMan]

69. 1963. That was the year my little home town

finally got dial phones. That same year I took my first computer programming class as a freshman in college.

[oberliner]

56. More people than most car companies

All auto factories are automated in that way.

[Tiggeroshii]

58. Automation is not the enemy here

Governments and companies using it as an excuse to not give people any kind of living wage, is.

[joshcryer]

61. All the major manufacturerers have similar processes.

Tesla may be ahead of the curve as far as near total automation is concerned (I can easily see the entire stamping factory needing 15 people to run the thing and it could stamp out a thousand vehicles an hour).

[GeorgeGist]

63. Maybe you shouldn't be a KIA fan.

[Inkfreak]

64. Musk is brilliant and his ideas will change our world.

I've zero issue with him or his production.

[A HERETIC I AM]

65. Not just a fan, but a shareholder

[RandySF]

66. Hate to break it to you

But automation has been a fact of manufacturing life for decades. Tesla may have issue, but this is a straw man.

[Shandris]

70. ...I am not pleased by this misleading headline!

I expected more Love.

Specifically...