Post here if buried power lines would have prevented a power outage for you sometime in the last 10

[hedgehog]

years:

Me : Upstate New York - ice storm

[Drunken Irishman]

1. Probably...but then again, I hear people out in the burbs losing power all the time...

And they have buried lines. So...

We do have a huge pole in my backyard that gave us trouble years ago, but it's fine now.

[hedgehog]

2. I think if we had more buried lines, we'd find out how many

people manage to cut them while digging!

[Drunken Irishman]

5. I'm guessing they're not as easily accessible, either...

[hedgehog]

6. Of course, it is harder to run your car into a buried line

as opposed to a telephone pole!

[TexasProgresive]

57. But running into a transformer cabinet is easier.

This is a small one:

My guess if you knock this thing off its pad with your car when you try to get out you are DEAD.

[slor]

23. When I lived as a child in Cincinnati...

the spring rains would knock the underground transformer on my street out constantly.

[dflprincess]

36. Not all 'burbs have buried lines

The one I live in does not - except in the newer areas on the far west side.

[bullimiami]

3. at least a few times.

[hedgehog]

4. I'm trying to find out where people think they need buried lines;

can you give us a general notion of where you are?

[mnhtnbb]

25. Anyplace with LOTS of trees. In our case, Chapel Hill, NC.

[HillWilliam]

62. That would be us, too, up in Caswell County

I'm between the Gamelands and the boy scout reservation. In other words, out in the middle of nowhere. When the power goes out, we're about the end of the line.

[tinymontgomery]

68. 1st other caswell cty person

I've seen on this board.

[HillWilliam]

71. Hey Neighbor!!

We'll have to grab a bite some time. I had no idea anyone else on DU lived in Caswell. My partner and I moved in a little over 5 years ago (I'm from Buncombe Co originally).

[tinymontgomery]

73. Yea, we can go to one of

the 3 restaurants that aren't fast food in the county. I've finally moved to civilization (Burlington) after 3 years. I still work up there.

[HillWilliam]

75. I was surprised to pieces

to find a decent Mexican restaurant in town. I remember growing up thinking that Taco Bell was exotic

[tinymontgomery]

84. That was my wife's and mine

Sunday dinner out since it is the only thing open. Now we have lots of choices.

[Still Sensible]

7. Absolutely, Oklahoma two different times. n/t

[a la izquierda]

50. Yep, I was going to say Oklahoma Ice Storm 2007 nt

[Broken_Hero]

99. Ditto that

I'm on the SW MO side, that storm in Jan of 07 was a rough one...buried lines would've helped greatly. I heard that folks in NE OK were without power for over 20 days, we suffered 10 on the MO side.

[LiberalFighter]

72. Oklahoma has trees?

[cynatnite]

74. One or two...they're mostly on the eastern part of the state. n/t

[a la izquierda]

106. The town I lived in-Norman-

Has tons of very old trees. They come down only in the worst of storms.

[tularetom]

8. Transformer blowed up and dropped hot oil on the dry grass

which then caught fire and burned the pole. Pole then fell over bringing down the line.

Happened twice - 2 different transformers on the same line.

[justabob]

15. effing transformers

There is one a block or so away that blows almost every time we have a decent storm. The power usually gets turned back on/rerouted pretty quick, but it is still a nuisance.

Other than that, yes, my neighborhood has lost power from downed lines. Both ice storms and wind/thunderstorm damage have brought lines down.

[KatyMan]

64. they can be pretty loud when they blow

scares the crap out of me when it happens...loud like a nearby lightning strike.

[Edweird]

80. Padmounts blow up, too. Only they are at ground level.

Oh, and since the line actually passes through the transformer instead of just being 'tapped off' like overhead, you stand a much greater chance of it taking out everyone else as well.

[HopeHoops]

9. We rarely lose power. All underground local lines and a substation in a valley.

[Siwsan]

10. I spent 14 straight hours bailing out my sump crock, 2 years ago, because of an outage

The problem was the line behind my back lot. It was February but we were in the middle of a thaw. So, up and down the basement stairs from about 4 in the afternoon until after 6am, carrying buckets of water. While they were repairing the line, the power company tore up my back lot and broke my fence.

Needless to say, I now have an emergency back up pump.

They did say that buried lines aren't a solution because it's more difficult to find the problem. And, the reason they put the utility poles between the house lots, instead of by the street, was due to Lady Bird's beautification initiative. Hmmmmm......

[Warren Stupidity]

11. Three multi day outages in five years.

Our region has spent tens of millions replacing the fucking stupid power lines instead of burying them. 2nd world infrastructure headed for third.

[thucythucy]

55. In our region the power companies

are cutting down trees pre-emptively, instead of burying the lines.

Burying power lines is one of those things that makes too much sense to ever happen, at least in current day America (no pun intended).

And yes, we lost power here for three days and a half days last year, entirely because of downed lines.

[COLGATE4]

60. Burying power lines is not the simple option you

think it is. First of all, is is tremendously expensive. Secondly, it involves all kind of land/real estate legal issues which can take forever to be resolved. Third, if there is damage, it is incredibly more difficult to locate and takes much more time to repair. And lastly, (as pointed out by another poster on this thread), underground lines are very susceptible to being cut or damaged by all kinds of workers using excavating equipment. They're not the unmixed blessing that many think they are.

[thucythucy]

82. All these issues can be addressed.

1. Expense. Over time the cost of burying at least the major lines (the ones on the massive towers that cut across the landscape on utility owned land) will be less than the cost of continually repairing and re-repairing and re-re-re-re-repairing lines and towers that are continually under assault from the elements;

2.) I'm assuming, since the power companies are able to, at will, construct these enormous and unsightly towers, spray the land with herbicides to cut down underbrush, and, in this case, cut down trees without any public input at all, burying the lines would not present any great legal obstacles;

3.) Even second tier lines that are buried generally have warnings to workers about cutting into them. We bury sewers, water mains, gas lines as well. Yes, there are accidents. No system or structure is infallible. But oddly enough, even when my power has gone off (several times in the past several years) my water, sewer, and natural gas connections manage to hold. What's the difference? Power lines are mostly above ground, the other systems are mostly below.

Nothing is an "unmixed blessing." But some forms of infrastructure work better than others. In the long run, burying as much of the power grid as we can would seem to make a good deal of sense.

[COLGATE4]

85. I worked as in house counsel for a major Michigan

utility for over 20 years, and, unfortunately the points you express are incorrect:

1 - You cannot bury transmission lines (the ones you describe as with "ones on the massive towers that cut across the landscape on utility owned land) because, among other things you'd wind up eletrocuting your customer base. Only lower voltage distribution lines are the ones that can be buried. And utilities typically cut and trim on a 7 or 10 year cycle - cost is nowhere near the cost of acquiring land rights, etc.

2- Although underground lines are buriedy they do not carry warnings. Most states require contractors to contact the utility for location of buried lines before starting (called "Miss Dig&quot but many do not. When they are cut it's much more of a hassle and it takes a lot longer to repair them. Then customers aren't happy.

Unfortunately, the cost and technical problems of undergrounding distribution lines is prohibitive unless done at the time the lines are first installed. Fact, nor opinion.

[thucythucy]

88. I defer to your expertise on retrofitting

existing grids.

We should however be burying new lines as new communities are built. To some extent this is already happening. Maryland, for example, has required all new lines to be laid underground since 1969. And the Europeans seem for some reason to have less problems with all the issues you raise. I know from traveling to Europe (especially Germany) that one seems to see far fewer above ground lines than in the US. This seems to be the way the Europeans at least are trending, as in:

http://www.leonardo-energy.org/underground-high-voltage-cables-wiring-europe-future

Anyway, I'll grant that the issue is more complex than I first thought.

[COLGATE4]

89. You're right. Newer communities are now being built

with mandatory undergrounding of distribution lines (I just bought into such a community in Fla) and that's a good thing, aesthetically. However, I just personally had the experience with a contractor digging into and hitting my supply line - out of juice for 24 hours. I was not a happy camper. In Europe they have been pushing undergrounding much more vigorously and, so long as the cost is built into the rate basis utilitities are happy to do it. The problem in the US is going back and asking for more $$ from the regulators in order to retrofit. Then it comes as an electric rate increase and users aren't happy. But the pendulum is moving in that direction.

[thucythucy]

90. Sorry to hear about your contractor problem.

I would think that the contractor in a case like that would eat whatever the outage cost you, but I understand if often doesn't work that way. I'd also hope that contractors would take special care to know what they're digging into, if only for safety's sake, but obviously accidents happen.

I was walking around my neighborhood not too long ago (all the lines are above ground) and saw a neighbor up on a ladder, attempting to prune one of his trees. He had one of those extendable pruning things with a metal hook on the end, and from time to time would swing the thing without looking, coming awfully close to clipping his power line, which ran directly through the branches. He was actually pissed when I pointed out the potential danger.

So I guess there are drawbacks to all the options, though I'd still like to see more of the grid underground where, presumably, only professionals can get at it.

[COLGATE4]

97. While I was at the utility in question we usually had

2-3 cases a year where an individual was either electrocuted or severely hurt by either contacting or coming close enough to a principal line to get shocked. More often than using pruning hooks it's people using aluminum ladders, working on the roof or whatever and moving them around without looking up. You don't necessarily even have to hit it to get a lethal jolt. Even if you're not killed outright the damage done by electricity passing through your body is so graphic and usually horrible that I won't go into details. Your neighbor may have been pissed at you, but believe you, he wouldn't have been if he had seen some of the photos I've seen.

Unfortunately the law does not usually allow us to collect outage-related costs from the contractor, although depending on the type of damage which occurs, we may sometimes collect from their insurer. Contractors by and large try to do the right thing but they're often under time crunches to do or finish a job and it's in final analysis it's the guy/girl running the backhoe who gets to say "I thought I knew where it was".

[dbackjon]

93. Germany has managed to do it.

But you are not an unbiased opinion.

It can be done. Utilities just DON'T WANT TO.

[COLGATE4]

94. Now THAT'S a compelling argument.

[PoliticAverse]

103. Actually some high-voltage transmission lines can be buried...

Ultimately it is significantly more expensive though.
Underground high power transmission lines have cooling issues.

Some examples of underground transmission projects:
https://www.dom.com/about/electric-transmission/radnor/index.jsp
http://tdworld.com/underground_transmission_distribution/nstar-underground-transmission-line-energized/
http://www.geosyntec.com/ui/Default.aspx?m=ViewProject&p=191

Technical discussion of underground transmission issues (from the Public Service Commission of Wisconsin):
http://psc.wi.gov/thelibrary/publications/electric/electric11.pdf

[COLGATE4]

107. Thank you for that clarification. I was not aware of

that, and the utility I worked with (largest combined in Michigan) has never to my knowledge considered that as a possibility. I don't know what technical problems that presents (aside from the cooling issue you mention) although it would strike me as being prohibitively expensive. Good to know.

[Edweird]

110. Actually transmission lines can be buried.

I just left New Orleans where we replaced oil-insulated underground transmission cable with dielectric. It's insanely expensive and a real pain, but it can be done.

[COLGATE4]

112. As I told another poster, I had never heard of

that option before. We probably never considered it due to the exhborbitant cost, particularly given the length of our transmissions corridors through the State of Michigan.

[Edweird]

113. My response when I first heard about underground transmission was

"You're full of sh!t" so I understand where you're coming from. However, having seen it myself I can attest to its existence. 2 1500' runs of 63KV cable plus 12 potheads and 6 splices ran WELL into 'millions' of dollars.

[COLGATE4]

114. Imagine the costs for my former utility

in Michigan that transmission corridors which run 300+ miles.

[dbackjon]

92. That is a crock of Utiliy company BS

It is not nearly as expensive as the Utilities pretend it is

Second, use public easements - they are there for a reason

Third, new technology basically renders that argument moot.

Fourth - if properly marked, on public easements, much less of a chance

[COLGATE4]

96. Please be kind enough to

show me with some facts just how what I've written is, as you so eloquently put it, "Utility company BS".

1 -Your statement that "It is not nearly as expensive as the Utilities pretend it is" is factually incorrect. You are aware, I assume that all utilities are regulated by the State in which they operate, and their costs and profits are likewise overseen and regulated. Why would utilities not choose to do this if it's not expensive? Or is it your contention that the State regulators of utilities are part of the vast conspiracy to deny people underground distribution lines?

2. Public easements rarely exist along distribution lines. Almost all utility easements are privately acquired over the course of many, many decades. The existing easements do not give you the right to underground on them. That right must be acquired separately, at a new acquisition cost with each landowner. In extreme cases you may try and get the State to condemn the property in question but either way you're going to pay a lot and it's going to be a long legal battle to do it. Until all the easements are acquired you can't underground a line.

3. What "new technology" 'basically renders that argument moot'? I'm envious - I imagine the utilities will pay you a great deal of money for you to let them in on it.

4. What 'markings' do you find on underground electric distribution lines? I'll give you a clue - none. The only utilities required to be marked are certain gas lines. To remedy accidents many states have laws which require the contractor to call the utility 'x' number of days before an anticipated dig so that the utility can go out and stake the line so they don't hit it. Many contractors ignore this and wind up cutting the lines. Happens almost daily in a big company.

[Edweird]

111. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Kolesar]

12. Post here "if"...

Also a good argument for photovoltaics and battery back up. Good luck to you.

[hedgehog]

13. Fixed it - thanks!

[Gidney N Cloyd]

14. I have buried lines and we go thru periods of frequent outages.

It seems to have less to do with storms than demand. When it blows out they seem often to have to go underground via the manholes to get things up and running again. Other times it's an above ground switching station.

[madinmaryland]

16. We have buried power lines here, and have not had any outages that have not been scheduled in

the last six years.

[kestrel91316]

17. Los Angeles, San Fernando Valley, every summer at least twice.

It gets SOOOOO hot the wires sag along the freeway right-of-way where it's landscaped and they make contact with untrimmed tree branches. If they would keep the trees trimmed it wouldn't be such a problem, and that's cheaper than burying lines.

Besides, in earthquake country, IIRC those buried lines can be extremely problematic.

ETA: In my residential neighborhood the lines are buried and are prone to exploding underground transformers. Had it happen just feet from my bedroom wall one night last year.

[NotThisTime]

18. Ice storm NW Bos suburbs, had a generator, moved to the burbs, have lost power w/buried lines

Only now we don't have the generator... should have taken it with us.

[Strelnikov_]

19. Highly recommended that the 'service drop' from the power distribution line to the house is buried

Service drops are the last thing repaired, since each only serves one customer. Remember a derecho type event in the Twin Cities in the late 90's where some were without power for three weeks while waiting for the service drops to be repaired.

[richmwill]

20. Absolutely, also Upstate NY.

I lived in my last apartment for 9 years, and it was maddening how often my power went out with the above-ground lines. Above-ground lines surrounded by a large amount of trees made for a bad situation. At least once every 2-3 months, not even kidding. The outages would range from 90 minutes to several days. It got to be a point where if the wind even picked up to 25mph, I'd figure on the power going out. Last October was it for me- had a snow/ice storm that knocked out power on a Saturday afternoon, I was without power with only bottled water to keep me going, no heat, no car due to a prior mechanical issue, and a cell phone with a dead battery. All in a rural area. A family member came and got me on Monday (when they heard I still didn't have power at that point they knew I was in trouble), on Monday night I decided I was moving. Power ended up being out there for 5 days, thank God I got out when I did. Moved my stuff out that Thursday morning, gave the landlord my notice, and I was done. Have lived in my new apartment in a different area for 8 months now with no outages.

[sakabatou]

21. Possibly

We had an outage years ago by fire in CA, but we do get earthquakes, so I dunno if it'd fix it.

[spin]

22. A fairly strong tropical storm caused me to lose power for 5 days ...

when I lived in the Tampa Bay area of Florida. The transformer on the pole in back of my house blew its fuse and a power crew from Georgia finally went through my neighborhood and replaced it.

Buried power lines might not have stopped this outage but in the Tampa Bay area it was common for fallen trees to stop the delivery of power to an neighborhood.

[mnhtnbb]

24. Yes. Ice storm of 2004 in NC. We were lucky to spend several days in a hotel.

When we checked in, I overheard the desk clerk tell someone else there were 100 people on the waiting list.
I knew to call and get a room first thing when I got up and saw how bad the storm was-- from experience of a wet snow that caused power outage when we lived in another state (NE)--and I watched a HUGE tree go down on our lot. We couldn't drive--so many trees down. Had to walk to the vet to board the animals. Walk to the hotel in town (buried power lines).

We were without power for about 5 days, I think, in December.

[Liberty Belle]

26. Hell yes and worse - San Diego's horrific wildfires in 2007 were CAUSED by sagging unmaintained line

Two of the worst fires resulted in thousands of homes burned, several deaths, and half a million people forced to evacuate.

[MADem]

27. I live in a neighborhood with buried power lines.

It makes the 'hood look like something from a century ago, which is nice, but eventually, those lines come up above ground. It's THOSE lines that ya gotta watch out for...also, when a transformer blows, a transformer blows.

I've seen plenty of power outages in the last ten years--way more than the preceding thirty, certainly.

The buried lines haven't helped. If we have an ice storm, the region gets screwed.

[GReedDiamond]

28. Just last November 30, Los Angeles area...

...huge wind storm, the likes of which I've never seen since moving here in March of 1976.

The power was out for me for four days. Others in my same area were without power for at least a week.

Unfortunately, we cannot upgrade our electrical infrastructure, because, as patriotic Citizens, we must realize that our taxpayer dollars are needed for much more important things, like rich-fuck-1-percenter tax breaks; corporate subsidies/welfare for big energy/oil tycoons; military exploits in support of Empire; militarizing local law enforcement agencies and conducting the "war on drugs" - which lead to more privately controlled for profit prisons, propped up by the taxpayers; maintaining tax exempt status for right wing dominionist mega-churches and child molesting Catholic Dioceses...etc, etc, ya know what I mean.

Happy Independence Day!

[Historic NY]

29. NY here too but the ice took out the transfer stations which takes longer to repair....

my town requires all new developments have buried cables/utilities.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

30. Yep.

Thankfully, we are on the same section as a hospital and tend to get power back quickly.

[NewMoonTherian]

31. Northeast Oklahoma - Where should I start?

Happens to us constantly, and we've been out of power for over a week several times.

[MiniMe]

32. The last 5 days in the DC suburbs

Storm came through Friday night, just got power back this morning.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

33. foshizzle

[evilhime]

34. Without a doubt

in Rockville MD, last Friday through Sunday night - Winter before last for 3 days, summer before that for 3 days . . . What really bothers me is they are cutting down some beautiful old trees to "prevent them from hitting power lines" then other trees STILL hit power lines! The trees wouldn't be a problem if the buried the lines. I have friends in southern who never have outages - lines are all buried. They also have universal health care but I digress -

[Avis]

35. Underground not always the answer

We are in Northern Minnesota. Part of the feed to our location has been underground for 30 yrs. Much trouble in that time. Rodents, insulation breakdown, conductor corrosion. They are out of the way, but the disadvantages seem to outweigh the advantages. Many underground lines in our county have been replaced with overhead. When there is trouble, at least you can see where it is. A little harder when it is 30 below and the ground is frozen 6 feet down. Underground generally only works for the last parts of a transmission network...the very high voltage/amperage feeder sections would be virtually impossible to insulate underground. Our outages many times come from sections 150 miles away.

[madrchsod]

37. last friday into saturday night

at least once a year where i live

[Soylent Brice]

38. here in cincinnati

the power goes out every time the fucking wind blows.

[greiner3]

39. My newish neighborhood;

Has no aboveground cables. Everything is buried in the back 5 ft of everyone's property. When people first visit they say there's something different about the place and when I mention the buried cables they say, "of course, I wish my neighborhood was like this."

[kickysnana]

40. Our 1980 apt building was rewired sometime and half of our power is over, half under ground.

Of course when they were replacing the old strip mall out our front windows they cut the underground line I consider it a perk.

[FarCenter]

41. Several outages in the last decade. One about 3 days in the winter.

A rigorous program of trimming trees would be a really big help.

People should think twice about planting trees that can drop limbs or fall on a power line or structure.

[nanabugg]

42. Yes. And what a job creator!! Make power companies with poor records pay 3/4 and the Feds 1/4. nt

[emmadoggy]

43. We must be lucky.

We seldom have power outages - especially of the multi-hour or multi-day kind. Sure we have the occasional short outage. Two weeks ago, we were without power for just shy of two hours when someone hit a power line pole a few blocks away. And I do think town was without power for a while (maybe a day or day and a half for some?) 2 years ago after a nasty ice storm (but we lived 2 miles out of town at that time and never lost power.)

The longest I can remember being without power (during my adult life) was about 26 hours - back in the early 90's, we lived in Wisconsin and a major tornado ripped through, narrowly missing us. Lots of damage, 2 lives lost.

I also remember a REALLY bad ice storm 4 or 5 years ago. We weren't hit quite as bad as the area just east of here where my mom, sister and brother live. It was horrendously bad. Lots of power lines poles snapped. I know a lot of people were without power for days in that area.

I guess we have just been lucky to be in the right places at the right times. Nothing more than minor outages and not very often.

[williesgirl]

44. me -VA last Friday! Power out til Tuesday; niece in Arlington still out

[Igel]

45. Hard to say.

Ice storm in Rochester had a power outage. Buried lines might have helped there. Might not have: They'd have to have been buried everywhere between us and the interdistrict transmission line.

Very expensive to bury the line, very expensive to maintain it. And that's given the sanity that is Rochester's hydrology and geology.

Live in Houston, TX, now. Water table much of the year is determined by how deep the St. Augustine roots go--a couple of inches. The soil's vertisol.

The first means that the buried power lines would just be under water much of the year.

The second means that when the ground does dry up, it contracts and forms cracks a couple of feet deep. This is good for cracking concrete slab foundations.

We don't do basements, thank you, for the same reasons. The clay'll crack the foundation, and a couple of months later the water table'll rise to nearly ground level.

[jimlup]

46. Several times ... more than I can count. /nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

47. me here in Los Angeles. Tree hit powerlines. Power out for almost a day while they put up new line

[struggle4progress]

48. Would have prevented at least two fortnight-long power outages for me: hurricane & ice-storm

I'm at the very end of a trunk line: when the power goes out, I'll be one of the last to get it restored

[quaker bill]

49. 4 hurricanes (back to back) 2004, 1 tropical strm 2006

seperate outages in 2004 lasting 3 weeks total. City bought the utility service and is in the process of putting the lines underground.

[Scuba]

51. Burying power lines has a far bigger advantage than just preventing outages...

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/9319582.html

MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- The families of three Madison residents electrocuted by a downed power line at a flooded bus stop in 2007 are suing the power company for negligence.

The power line was carrying more than 4,000 volts on Aug. 22, 2007, when 28-year-old Lakisha Dancy tried to board a bus while holding her 2-year-old girl. They were electrocuted. When 22-year-old Demetrius Dobbs went to help, he was also killed.

Dobbs' mother, Eileen Stephens of Posen, Ill., filed a wrongful death lawsuit last week against Madison Gas and Electric. Another lawsuit has been filed on behalf of Dancy's three surviving children.

[Edweird]

66. You believe having that same voltage UNDERGROUND would somehow be better?

I see a serious flaw in your logic.

[Scuba]

69. The line wouldn't have been broken had it been underground. Three lives would have been saved.

[Edweird]

79. Those lines have to come up for connection to transformers.

Those transformers sit at ground level. Those connections often 'leak' electricity. The air acts as an insulator but one the water reaches it things change. Those transformers often fail. There is no guarantee that any life would have been saved. I personally would much rather have overhead lines in a flooded area than underground - and I work on the powerlines.

[Sherman A1]

52. Yes it would have done so

Ameren ue cut back their tree trimming budget and eventually it caught up to the customers, when the storms came. The got a PR black eye and eventually we got our power back after 4 days. Oddly during the period of not cutting the trees , executive bonuses did not seem to suffer any cut backs .

[DCKit]

53. 23 years in the same apartment in downtown DC, and I've never lost power.

Yeah, there's something to be said for putting the wires underground.

On the other hand, our solar powered house in western VA is the only one in the county with power, water and cooking. Why people who choose to live in the country choose to cook with electric is beyond me. It's why I laugh when the pro-nukkers try to convince us it can't work. It just does. We don't even have a big system (1.2Kw), and ended up with way more power than we could use last week, every single day.

But dayum, it was an epic storm. Straight line winds, my ass. We had to cut our way out... the chainsaws are sooooo going in for service this week. Hell, everything with a blade is getting sent out.

[hedgehog]

56. As someone pointed out, even if they jsut buried the lines from the pole to the house, it would be

a huge improvement! Those straight line winds and ice storms take down every line, so it's a house to house repair situation.




BTW - I'll repeat myself on this:

If you lose power due to a storm, check your connection to the power company. Usually the power is run from the pole to a connector up near the eaves of your house, then the line is run down the side of your house to the meter. If that wiring downstream of the main connector is torn loose, you'll have to get that repaired by a private contractor before the power company will restore your electricity. I've seen it more than once where a fallen tree pulled that wire right off the side of the house.

[DCKit]

58. As I said, "straight line winds, my ass"

I was there. The winds were twisted, coming from every direction.

They won't tell us, but west of Churchville VA, a tornado did touch down, took out a line of trees and tore the roof off a house. Fuck you lying liars. The definition of "tornado".

We didn't have any damage to the buildings, but the driveway was a mess. Screw it, it was worth it. I love a great storm, and that one was epic. It was a hoot. Loved it.

[emmadoggy]

86. I've experience a derecho before

also. It is crazy, scary and wild. Winds in our derecho were estimated by NWS at around 100-110 mph. I also felt that there were at least some areas where the damage looked more like tornado damage. Most areas did look like straight line wind damage, but a couple spots looked more twisted and mangled.

The cloud bank with that storm was like nothing I had ever seen before (or since). Extremely low and green/black. I also get excited about a good storm, but that one was way too scary for me. And I draw the line when it causes extensive property damage and threatens lives.

That storm and the near F4 tornado that missed us by .2 of a mile were a little too intense and scary for me!

[DCKit]

87. Generally, I'd agree with the experts or any other storm fan.

But I was there, winds coming from every direction and we saw the tornado damage in Churchville, VA and had the swirrlies coming down overhead - line of trees trashed, roof off the house. I know a good storm when I see it.. The weather service won't confirm it, but there were tornadoes.

It was an epic, messy storm. Loved it.

[DCKit]

104. you don't want me to reply to you? Itls not as if youve got anythning to br fribightened of.

Some of my neighbors remind me of the neighbors down the block.

[hedgehog]

95. I think it is the nature of the derocho to generate some tornadoes

just to keep things interesting! But yes, straight line winds of 60-100mph coming at you in a storm front traveling 65 mph can do some nasty damage! We got hit with the edge of one some years back, and the damage was rather capricious depending on local terrain; whether trees were sheltered by a hill or not, etc.

[Edweird]

65. That is your option, at least here in Florida. You can have your service underground if you want.

It is significantly more expensive, labor intensive and more difficult to maintain than overhead but nothing is stopping you. The rub is: you still have outages. The best part is that people complain about the ugly transformers and the need for us to access them. Easements and right of ways become battle lines. Repair work requires massive excavation. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[arely staircase]

59. surely. texas -hurricanes nt

[Arkana]

61. Yep. Several times.

[Edweird]

63. I actually install and repair power lines for a living.

Last edited Thu Jul 5, 2012, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Having lines buried does not prevent outages and makes restoration MUCH more difficult in many ways. They are not the panacea presented here - in fact there is no way other than baseless speculation for laypersons to determine whether having their lines buried would have prevented an outage.

[hedgehog]

67. I think the question is the comparative frequency of power outages

for the two types of installation. I suspect that this varies from location to location, but with the weather everywhere becoming increasingly violent, I think we'll be seeing more buried line.


Something else we need that few ever mention - smarted transmission systems. It's my impression that the only way the power company knows which lines are out of service now is to send someone out in a truck to look!

[Edweird]

78. The transmission and distribution lines are monitored.

The only time those monitoring systems don't perform is in the case of catastrophic system wide damage.

As far as underground goes - a few years ago we had a particularly frigid cold snap down here in South Florida. Everyone went out and bought space heaters and overloaded the system. The people that were out the longest were the ones with underground lines. Not only is it extremely time consuming (and dangerous) to 'switch out' a pad mount transformer, but you have pretty much have to replace it with what was there. You don't have much latitude when it comes to size and type of transformer - the wrong one won't connect. With overhead lines I can make just about anything work if need be - I can even open the top and change the wiring configuration. FPL went through their entire stock of padmounts and was arranging an emergency shipment from the manufacturer. Additionally, when underground fails (make no mistake it *WILL* fail eventually) there is a lot of digging involved. A wood pole replacement is much less intrusive and destructive than an underground repair.

[MineralMan]

70. It's not such a simple question, actually.

I'll give you an example from my own experience. When we first moved into our neighborhood in St. Paul, MN, we had a problem with power outages. The transformer at the end of the block was blowing fuses on a regular basis. Each time, we'd be out of power for a couple of hours, until a crew came out and replaced them. After the fourth incident, our power company upgraded the lines and transformers. Since then, we've had no outages. They did the job in three days. The problem was overloading. Since those lines were installed when the subdivision was built in the 1950s, power consumption has gone up dramatically, and the old stuff just wasn't up to the job. Most homeowners upgraded the old 60-amp services originally installed over the years, and added lots of load to the system.

Had those overloaded lines been underground, I'm not sure it would have gotten fixed that fast.

Undergrounding electrical powerlines is a very expensive proposition. Someone's going to be paying for that, and our electric bills in MN are pretty damned high already. Personally, I'm good with the poles and wires running in the easement in my back yard. If something does go wrong, it's usually easy and fast to repair.

[RockaFowler]

76. I live in Florida - so heck yeah

WE were without power for 3 weeks after Hurricane Frances hit in 2004. Then a week later Hurricane Jeanne hit and knocked us out another week. Without power we were not able to get water - we lived on a well. That also meant no toilet. So hubby and I had to go South to Ft Lauderdale in order to at least find a place that had power after the storm.

I feel for you guys that just went through the storm and no power. We have been complaining about the above-ground lines for years here. The people on Palm Beach are allowed to have all underground lines. Go to the Island - no power lines anywhere. They have always been underground. And rarely get power outages.

[DBoon]

77. Yes

Powerline "snapped" in the middle of the night.

I got up wonder WTF was going on - quite spectacular - right across the street.

CA is earthquake territory - more lines whould be undergound here

[Motown_Johnny]

81. I just went over 24 hours without power

and it started about ten minutes after I first read this thread.



Ya Jinxed Me!

[ohheckyeah]

83. Me - June 29 -

July 2. Many other times in the last 6 years.

[femmocrat]

91. Absolutely.

The newer homes across the road from us have underground power lines. We have telephone poles. Our power goes out regularly while theirs stays on.

Several years ago, our power was out for three days (blizzard). We froze in the dark, while they had on every damn light, inside and out. I bet they are repukes.

I would gladly pay for the installation of underground lines if they ever get around to us.

[AnnieBW]

98. Usually, they do

The power lines are buried in my 12-year-old neighborhood, but are connected to the main lines. Every time some idjit hits a power pole up on the main road, we lose power. Usually we're okay during storms and snows. Except for this last time, when we had 10 power poles sheared in half up on the main road on Friday night. We just got power back on Wednesday at 7 PM.

[LadyHawkAZ]

100. My old neighborhood in AZ needed more than lines

Every piece of equipment they had needed replacing. Transformers blew once a week.

[Scootaloo]

101. Very definitely; Puget Sound

Last year my island basically went a week with no power. In the middle of January. I spent more time at the corner store and hteir neverending pot of coffee than in my own unheated, lightless home.

[WCGreen]

102. here too...

[freshwest]

105. Already has. We pay for it every month in a surcharge we voted to have improvments done. Works good.

[Grammy23]

108. Underground lines in neighborhood--above ground feeder lines

In my neighborhood, the power, cable and telephone lines are all underground; however, the lines that feed them are all above ground. So even though we don't have lines that can get severed or have trees fall on them, cars crash into poles, etc. the ones a few blocks away from our house can and do get knocked out of service. Transformers on poles also go out and we can hear them from a few blocks away.

After Hurricane Ivan (2004) we were without power for 8 days and we among the lucky ones. Our area (FL Panhandle) took a direct hit so even though we were without power for over a week, we considered ourselves among the lucky ones because we knew people who went a lot longer without power.

One solution is to have a generator so you can keep your refrigerator/freezer going or have a stove and other appliances when you need them. We had a borrowed generator after Ivan and my husband kept track of what we had on so it was not too much for the generator to keep going. (Small generators cannot run the WHOLE HOUSE....only a few things at a time.) The biggest problem with a generator of that type (run on gasoline) is keeping a fuel supply. You have to have a certain amount BEFORE the outage occurs because after that you may not be able to get gasoline. The stations run out because everyone needs it to top off their cars/trucks and to get that supply for generators. Also some cannot run the pumps due to the power outage. Until THEY get a generator to run the pumps, the gasoline cannot be gotten out of the underground tanks. (

Another solution is to buy one that comes on instantly when your main power source goes down, such as Genrac or other other brand of whole house generators. Those are usually not something your "average" homeowner can afford since they tend to be very expensive for something that is only used once every few years. They frequently run off of natural gas so if you don't have a line coming into your home, you have to get that installed first before you can get the emergency generator installed. My house is all electric so we'd have to do that. That kind of generator is handy.....seamless, as they like to tell us. At the slightest blip in your power, they come on automatically and you never even know the regular power source went out. Nice, handy and expensive.

Let's face it, most people have no idea what to do when the power is out for an extended period of time. It often happens during an extreme weather event (whether cold or hot) and over a wide spread area. So the repairs can take weeks or months to complete. We take our electricity SO FOR GRANTED that when it's not there we're pretty hard pressed to figure out how to live. Funny thing but true.....after Ivan when we were sitting around unable to watch TV, rationing our use of the radio to save batteries, unable to do normal household things....cook, run the washer, no air conditioning, not even a fan running, I brightly and sincerely jumped up and said....."Well, as long as we're just sitting here, I might as well do something useful and VACUUM the carpet. " Only after the words left my lips did I realize how stupid that was. But it comes from the fact that the majority of the time, our utilities are there for us and we are not well prepared to deal with it when they are not.

[Iggo]

109. Maybe, but I live in earthquake country.

The worst power outage I've had here in Whittier was when someone took out a pole in an auto avcident and the city had to (or took the opportunity to) replace a whole street's worth of power poles. Took about 4 days. So maybe we'd've avoided that one. But I'm guessing - and this is only a guess, I'm no expert - but I'm guessing that one of the 2 or 3 good asphalt-and-sidewalk-crackers we get out here per year might've caused a power outage of its own.