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Fri May 5, 2017, 05:16 PM

 

I don't usually like joe Manchin but...

this quote is great:

West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin said Thursday at a POLITICO Playbook event that 172,000 people in his deep-red state got insurance for the first time under Obamacare.

“They don’t know how they got it, they don’t know who gave it to them,” he said he told Trump, before warning, “They’re going to know who took it away from them.”

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Reply I don't usually like joe Manchin but... (Original post)
bagelsforbreakfast May 2017 OP
Proud liberal 80 May 2017 #1
elleng May 2017 #8
wildeyed May 2017 #9
elleng May 2017 #10
tecelote May 2017 #19
Ilsa May 2017 #23
wildeyed May 2017 #26
EffieBlack May 2017 #32
loyalsister May 2017 #57
Texin May 2017 #12
elleng May 2017 #14
Amaryllis May 2017 #37
elleng May 2017 #38
Amaryllis May 2017 #40
elleng May 2017 #41
Amaryllis May 2017 #42
Proud liberal 80 May 2017 #17
wildeyed May 2017 #22
hatrack May 2017 #43
wildeyed May 2017 #45
hatrack May 2017 #48
wildeyed May 2017 #49
hatrack May 2017 #50
EffieBlack May 2017 #33
BannonsLiver May 2017 #31
elleng May 2017 #39
PA Democrat May 2017 #2
KeepItReal May 2017 #3
regnaD kciN May 2017 #4
JI7 May 2017 #5
Cha May 2017 #30
FenwayDonkey May 2017 #6
mountain grammy May 2017 #7
BigDemVoter May 2017 #11
47of74 May 2017 #27
EffieBlack May 2017 #34
onecaliberal May 2017 #52
wildeyed May 2017 #13
elleng May 2017 #15
wildeyed May 2017 #16
elleng May 2017 #18
elleng May 2017 #20
EffieBlack May 2017 #35
wildeyed May 2017 #44
Tanuki May 2017 #21
elleng May 2017 #24
SJMULE May 2017 #25
Staph May 2017 #28
Proud liberal 80 May 2017 #36
k8conant May 2017 #53
SMC22307 May 2017 #54
wildeyed May 2017 #46
Cha May 2017 #29
bigtree May 2017 #47
Bucky May 2017 #51
SMC22307 May 2017 #55
SMC22307 May 2017 #56

Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 05:37 PM

1. His constituents are pretty dumb

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #1)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:29 PM

8. 'Ignorant' is better than 'dumb,' imo.

We sure won't go far if we refer to voters as DUMB.

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:35 PM

9. I would refrain from making judgmental comments about their mental capacity altogether.

It is not a highly educated state and they are fed a steady diet of Fox News and RW Christianity. They are relatively poor and life can be hard. It's a very different culture.

I actually take time to talk to people from rural areas with a red state mentality. You know one of the main reasons they say they don't vote Dem? Because Democrats make fun of them. I wish I could say they were wrong.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #9)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:40 PM

10. Yes.

Right. And mental 'capacity' > DUMB. 'Ignorant' > education and how informed.

This is why I so enjoyed, and hope Dems make use of Senator Sanders' 'recent' visit to WV. Much of what you mention was apparent there.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #9)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:31 PM

19. Absolutely.

We don't have to look very far to see your point proven.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #9)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:40 PM

23. It really bothers me that they can't acknowledge

That Democrats and a Democratic president got them healthcare, but would rather believe the garbage on fux news.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #23)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:50 PM

26. Yep.

But we need their votes, at least some of them. Democracy is hard like that

And again, if you went to an underfunded rural high schools that didn't offer AP or calculus and Fox News and evangelical Christian preachers were your main sources of information, you might be a bit confused too.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #23)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:37 PM

32. I don't think his party affiliation is the problem . . .

They can't acknowledge that a black president did something for them.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #9)

Sat May 6, 2017, 04:13 PM

57. Unfortunately true

I have a hard time taking time to talk with some people about politics. I've taken a lesson in that recently, though. I realized that if I accuse people of being willfully ignorant because they won't listen to me, I should also admit to my own willful ignorance in not listening to them.

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:41 PM

12. They are willfully dumb.

And, THAT constitutes true dumb. Truly intelligent people are curious and skeptical about everything that's being flogged for them to consume or buy (into). The rethugs have been slut shaming Democrats and democratic-progressive programs and ideas as 'communist', ' socialist', 'elitist', etc., etc., etc. since the New Deal and the Great Society. Most of these folks gladly who are eligible willingly partake of Social Security and Medicare and will be very, very sorry and very, very fucked when they're taken away (and I do believe these shitstain rethugs are going to gun for those programs next in some iteration or other). These folks willingly drink at the socialist troughs of SS and Medicare without so much as a thought about it. And they gladly partook of O-Care though it was packaged up in a different moniker. As Manchin said, they didn't know they were blessedly grateful for the gift the ACA gave them and that the ACA is otherwise called pejoratively, Obamacare, but they'll know that it was Ryan-Trumpcare that took it away from them endangering their lives, their families lives if not outright killing them. They'll remember that.

That said. These fuckers have a short attention span and even shorter memories. When Trump starts up some foreign shit misadventure in the near future, they'll forget all about this and put these Trump cocksuckers back in office. Plan on it.

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Response to Texin (Reply #12)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:43 PM

14. Please stay away from any you perceive as such,

and don't assume you speak for me and/or others like me. It only HURTS our cause.

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Response to elleng (Reply #14)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:38 PM

37. Thank you. You speak for me as well.

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Response to Amaryllis (Reply #37)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:40 PM

38. You're welcome, Amaryllis.

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Response to elleng (Reply #38)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:53 PM

40. It really bothers me when people say all Trump voters are either stupid or racist. Some are, but

there are myriads of reasons who people vote the way they do. And I am not saying we should try to change their minds!

Additionally, I know a number of people who are very intelligent who have been brainwashed / hypnotized by right wing media. It is very hard for me to understand them, but what I do know is that they think I am just as brainwashed as I think they are. They think the "liberal media" I consume is just as off base as I think theirs is. My very own brother, a very intelligent person, is in this category. We simply cannot talk politics because he lives in an alternative universe that does not ever intersect with mine, so there is no ground for discussion.

I have said this over and over on DU...that this is not the same thing as being stupid or racist, sexist, etc.

I believe right wing media is responsible for the intense polarization we have today. I grew up during the advent of TV, and we had three networks and that was it. No cable news. No internet. No parallel universes that never intersected.

And let's not forget that Russia did a masterful job of creating the narrative that Hillary was more of a threat than Trump, which we learned from the cyber guys who testified at the House Intel hearings recently.

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Response to Amaryllis (Reply #40)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:56 PM

41. Lots of the baloney 'reasons' for thus and so on this thread.

I'm kind of discouraged. Maybe the weekend will help.

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Response to elleng (Reply #41)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:01 PM

42. This has really been going on since the election, though. People who insist all Trump voters are

stupid and sexist and those who see it as less black and white and think it's important to look at a bigger picture. In a way, it is another version of living in parallel universes that don't intersect.

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:26 PM

17. its useless trying to reach these voters

Dems are better off trying to get voters to actually vote. That is the problem, we need to get people who would vote Dem excited and engaged to vote. Stop trying to reach people who have no intention of ever voting for you, all it does is turn off people who would vote for you.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #17)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:37 PM

22. They vote for Manchin.

They voted for FDR, Robert Byrd and LBJ.

If Dems only plan to win in states dominated by large, urban areas, we will never hold power again. Electoral College and the way Senate seats are apportioned demand that we win some in rural, culturally conservative areas too. So either we uselessly try to reach a few of these red state voters or we can plan to be the minority party forever.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #22)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:07 PM

43. This is from the journalist who took pictures of empty seats at Dump's latest pep rally

Read the comments, and then tell me again about how we need to "reach" these people.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/Trump-Harrisburg-Pennsylvania-rally-crowd-count-Twitter-tweet-Tamari.html

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Response to hatrack (Reply #43)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:43 AM

45. How are comments on an online article representative of an entire state?

Also, the rally happened in PA, not WV and most of the top comments were anti-Trump

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #45)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:11 AM

48. Did you read the whole thread? The screeching, the crazy, the rabid - 100s of posts . . .

I would also argue that PA and WV voter demographics aren't that different, setting aside Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

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Response to hatrack (Reply #48)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:09 AM

49. Of course I didn't read it all.

It doesn't interest me and has no bearing on the current discussion. Random anonymous Disqus posts on a news article do not reflect the character and beliefs of an entire state. We have no idea who those people are or where they came from.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #49)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:35 PM

50. Well, you keep on "reaching out" . . .

Maybe we can all pass the hat for prosthetics when you draw back a couple of bloody stumps.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Reply #17)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:39 PM

33. I agree

I'm tired of trying to convince them. And even if Dems get them to vote Democratic the next time, these folks are so fickle and gullible, we'd have to jump through hoops to keep them in the tent.

I'm sick of them. We need to leave them over there with Trump and the Republicans and focus our attention on building the party wit people who will actually stay and strengthen us if they're just given the chance.

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Response to elleng (Reply #8)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:34 PM

31. Where's does willfully ignorant fall on the scale?

I actually believe that is the real issue in a lot of these states -- proud, willful ignorance.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #31)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:43 PM

39. Repugs have spent years dumbing down public (and private) education,

so we can't hand over the country to them by not trying to inform. Be gentle while doing so; it can work.

For example: Gov. Bullock (D. Montana): How Democrats Can Win in the West

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/opinion/steve-bullock-democrats-montana.html?ref=opinion

On the night that Hillary Clinton got 36 percent of the vote in Montana, I won re-election comfortably, running on progressive ideas and against an extremely wealthy Republican opponent. Ever since, national reporters have asked me whether Montana Democrats have some secret recipe, given that we’ve won the last four elections for governor, that might be used in national campaigns. I tell them yes, we do.

Above all, spend time in places where people disagree with you. Reach out. Show up and make your argument. People will appreciate it, even if they are not inclined to vote for you. As a Democrat in a red state, I often spend days among crowds where there are almost no Democratic voters in sight. I listen to them, work with them and try to persuade them.

Democrats as a national party have ceased doing this. This has to change. They should take a more expansive view of the America that exists beyond the confines of the Eastern Seaboard.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016184509

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 05:44 PM

2. 184,000 West Virginians are projected to lose insurance if the ACA is repealed

making WV one of the states most negatively impacted by the Republican's plan.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news-politics/20170105/expert-says-aca-repeal-would-hurt-wv-medicaid-recipients

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 05:47 PM

3. Hey Manchin, they'd know who got 'em ACA plans if you hadn't taken shots at it. Literally.

Eom

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:07 PM

4. Hmm...wasn't Manchin the DINO who expressed his opposition to the ACA upon taking office?

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:13 PM

5. i don't think it's that they don't know how they got it

It's more likely they don't want to give credit and acknowledge the person that gave it to them.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #5)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:27 PM

30. Yeah, it's ACA.. NOT Obamacares.

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:15 PM

6. They don't care. Pissing off "the liberals" is more important than medical care.*

 

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:16 PM

7. Nah..they'll blame Obama

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:41 PM

11. That's what they voted for.

As far as I'm concerned, those who put that motherfucker in office (like 70% of WV) should be first in line to have their coverage either yanked or jacked up in price as to make it inaccessible.

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Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #11)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:52 PM

27. That's where I am too.

 

Fornicate them. And their apologists too. I am done with having any degree of tolerance and understanding. My life is at stake and anyone who thinks I'm supposed to bend over kiss the asses of the Trump voter can go fornicate themselves.

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Response to 47of74 (Reply #27)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:41 PM

34. This

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Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #11)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:42 PM

52. Exactly just what the pukes said they promised they would do it.

Anyone who voted for that orange piece of maggot shit deserves what they get. Unfortunately the rest of us will also suffer.

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:42 PM

13. Dems might have a better shot at WV soon.

They loved FDR and sent Robert Byrd to the Senate for years. They were richly rewarded too. It is weird to me that they ever switch to GOP since GOP never did shit for them. I guess that racist innuendo, guns and god is a potent mix for a certain subset of white people in this country. Maybe they will hit bottom with that soon and start making better decisions. Sigh...

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #13)

Fri May 5, 2017, 06:45 PM

15. and Jay Rockefeller.

Senator Sanders spoke with them 'recently,' and they appeared to appreciate it. He learned a lot there too. I HOPE the Dem party does the same.

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Response to elleng (Reply #15)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:24 PM

16. Manchin is from there and wins.

He seems to understand his state and they like him well enough to send him to Washington, despite their addiction to guns, conservative social views and Fox News.

I suspect that Sanders would be a useful surrogate there, but I don't know much about any visits he made.

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #16)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:30 PM

18. Yes, Manchin does well there.

There's a video of a Sanders/Chris Hayes 'town hall' meeting a while ago. Will look for it. Very interesting (and problematic in some aspects.)

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Response to wildeyed (Reply #16)

Fri May 5, 2017, 09:42 PM

35. Until they find out he's a Jewish Socialist

I have a feeling they wouldn't be so interested in what he has to say once they learn that.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #35)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:06 AM

44. Maybe.

I dunno. It wasn't actually my idea to send him there. I'm not that interested in Bernie Sanders.

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Response to elleng (Reply #15)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:37 PM

21. They even voted for Mike Dukakis! They are not beyond our reach.

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Response to Tanuki (Reply #21)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:43 PM

24. Right, not at ALL beyond our reach.

And seen this, from Montana?

Gov. Bullock (D. Montana): How Democrats Can Win in the West

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/opinion/steve-bullock-democrats-montana.html?ref=opinion

On the night that Hillary Clinton got 36 percent of the vote in Montana, I won re-election comfortably, running on progressive ideas and against an extremely wealthy Republican opponent. Ever since, national reporters have asked me whether Montana Democrats have some secret recipe, given that we’ve won the last four elections for governor, that might be used in national campaigns. I tell them yes, we do.

Above all, spend time in places where people disagree with you. Reach out. Show up and make your argument. People will appreciate it, even if they are not inclined to vote for you. As a Democrat in a red state, I often spend days among crowds where there are almost no Democratic voters in sight. I listen to them, work with them and try to persuade them.

Democrats as a national party have ceased doing this. This has to change. They should take a more expansive view of the America that exists beyond the confines of the Eastern Seaboard.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016184509

With a GOOD outreach effort, we can do it, I have little doubt.

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 07:49 PM

25. Is it A CHICKEN OR EGG THING?

 

They are made fun of because they continue to believe GOP Bullshit and vote against their own economic interests, OR they vote GOP because the left makes fun off them for something else?

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Response to SJMULE (Reply #25)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:49 PM

28. Thank you!

I am so fucking tired of defending my people to the smug folk of Democratic Underground! The coal miners have always been employed by outsiders, who pay minimal wages for a dangerous, deadly job, that ends up destroying the land we love.

In the 1960s, Johnson's War on Poverty sent more outsiders into the state, who told us how backward and ignorant we were. Yes, there were good results, like the Appalachian Regional Commission, that helped to build highways to some of the more remote sections of the state.

The only reason outsider Jay Rockefeller got elected was that he paid his dues. He started as a VISTA volunteer in the coal fields, before running for the state House of Delegates. He still maintains a residence in West Virginia, long after retiring from public office.

And so now you outsiders want to tell us how to run our state, how to elect Democrats. We're the state that voted for Hubert Humphrey (against Richard Nixon), for Jimmy Carter - twice!, for Michael Dukakis, for Bill Clinton - twice!. Our state economy has fallen to shreds while outsiders extract our minerals and take the profits, our people are in drowning in drug overdoses due to Big Pharma dumping opioids in every little town (the town of Kermit - population 392 -- had a pharmacy that received shipments of over nine million hydrocodone pills in two years!).

So, yeah, West Virginia has problems. But those problems are not going to be solved by you assholes calling us dumb and racist and ignorant. Back off!

(SJMULE -- this rant was not intended for you! Your question of the chicken or egg set me off, after all of the rude and condescending remarks above.)


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Response to Staph (Reply #28)

Fri May 5, 2017, 10:37 PM

36. Not calling you dumb

I am calling the people on Obamacare dumb, who don't realize that Obama and the Dems did that for them, all the while they voted for Trump and an all republican house delegation who want to take their healthcare away

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Response to Staph (Reply #28)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:13 PM

53. and Thank You, Staph

I, as a "new" West Virginian (having only lived here since 1983), agree that folks should back off on West Virginia! We will certainly get more votes with honey than with vinegar and denigration.

WV progressives are rising up now to turn our state blue again.

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Response to Staph (Reply #28)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:43 PM

54. God, what a breath of fresh air... thank you.

I'm sick of DU's anti-labor contingent and its West Virginia bashing, coal miner bashing, steel worker bashing, rural America bashing, etc. The Bashers NEVER answer how they plan on winning back the White House without PA, MI and WI. Hillary won the popular vote? Big Fucking Deal. It didn't put her in the White House. And thank God for Bernie Sanders (and Chris Hayes!) for going into deep red areas with local politicians to actually talk -- and listen -- to voters. Democrats fully control only SIX states. Just how many more voters do the Bashers think they can alienate?

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Response to SJMULE (Reply #25)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:57 AM

46. My guess, they are conservative on social issues, not so much on economic.

People ALWAYS vote values over economics, at least to a point. So when the Dems became the party of social change, we lost them. This is exacerbated by Fox News and gerrymandering. The general intolerance/cluelessness of many white urban Dems for groups outside of their culture does not help.

The key to getting them back is to let leaders from the area do the messaging, IMO. People here get so mad at Manchin, but he needs to convince THEM, not us, to vote for him. And we NEED his seat if we want any chance at talking the majority back. Dems are not in a position to throw that away right now.

BTW, *I* proudly vote against my own economic interest pretty much every time I vote for a Democrat. I vote to pay higher taxes even though I make more than the average amount of money. I support immigrants, POC and LGBT rights, even when it is against my own self interest. I live in Charlotte. Ask me about what the HB2 boycott does to my bottom line and if I supported continuing (spoiler: It hurt my income and I did support continuing.) All of this is against my self interest, but everyone here EXPECTS that I would do these things. Because it is part of our shared values as liberals. So why is it hard to grasp that other groups have different values and are ALSO willing to sacrifice income to support them?

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 08:56 PM

29. Yep..

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:00 AM

47. so true

...thinking of my conservative friend in WVa. who was without health care, insurance for decades before moving there. Had a gall bladder operation with Obamacare, would likely have perished without it. Always gave WVa. credit, not Obama. I didn't argue it.

He's sure going to know who took that care away from him though...

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:41 PM

51. For everyone making sweeping negative generalizations about all West Virginians... fuck off

You're supposed to be liberals. You're supposed to care about poor people and the uneducated. You're supposed to be in favor of helping the needy and destitute.

You're not supposed to help them because they vote the way you vote, you're supposed to help them because they're people who need help. That's what liberalism, that's what decency and compassion, is all about.

If people don't know stuff, do a better job educating them and spend less time insulting them. Spend more time acting like Martin Luther King jr. And spend less time talking like Sean Hannity.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #51)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:52 PM

55. Another breath-of-fresh-air post.



Whose fault is it that "they" didn't know where their healthcare came from? Obama and the Democratic Party for not singing it from the fucking rooftops. But, chill out everyone... "He's got this!" And for those who were paying attention, we let Sarah "Death Panels" Palin define it.

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Response to bagelsforbreakfast (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:58 PM

56. It's the fault of Obama and the Democratic Party...

for not clearing this up for them:

'“They don’t know how they got it, they don’t know who gave it to them,”


There was a lot of criticism on this board of Democrats not pushing Obamacare more, for letting Republicans define it. And here we are ... two thousand fucking seventeen ... with Republicans running amok.

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