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Fri May 5, 2017, 11:42 PM

Go F*ck Yourselves: Bill Maher Goes Off on Liberal Purists Who Didnt Vote for Clinton

With President Donald Trump‘s first 100 days out of the way, Bill Maher tonight asked “liberal purists” how they feel now about decrying Hillary Clinton as “the lesser of two evils.”

“Quite a bit lesser,” he observed, “wouldn’t you say now?”

He pointed to comments made by Jill Stein and Cornel West saying that either a Trump or Clinton presidency would be a disaster. But Maher argued that a lot of the things liberals are up in arms about in the era of Trump wouldn’t have even been an issue if Clinton won (the Supreme Court, for instance).

Maher even singled out Edward Snowden‘s (since-deleted) tweet that read, “2016: a choice between Donald Trump and Goldman Sachs.” He pointed out that Trump has chosen people from Goldman for his administration.

And he followed up with this comment for people who said Clinton was “just as evil”:

“Just wait until the 5 to 4 decisions start rolling in, gutting unions, making it harder for minorities to vote, siding with polluters, overturning abortion rights. Then maybe you’ll join me in saying to the liberal purists: Go fuck yourselves with a locally-grown organic cucumber.”



http://www.mediaite.com/tv/go-fck-yourselves-bill-maher-goes-off-on-liberal-purists-who-didnt-vote-for-clinton/

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Reply Go F*ck Yourselves: Bill Maher Goes Off on Liberal Purists Who Didnt Vote for Clinton (Original post)
RandySF May 2017 OP
Stallion May 2017 #1
Hekate May 2017 #15
Littlered9560 May 2017 #76
Hortensis May 2017 #239
Stinky The Clown May 2017 #2
Alice11111 May 2017 #112
demigoddess May 2017 #150
Alice11111 May 2017 #165
BlueMTexpat May 2017 #175
Freddie May 2017 #3
iluvtennis May 2017 #53
Jno_Gilmor_ May 2017 #61
Demsrule86 May 2017 #73
Baconator May 2017 #117
Fresh_Start May 2017 #127
Baconator May 2017 #129
Alice11111 May 2017 #152
JHB May 2017 #86
Freddie May 2017 #90
cstanleytech May 2017 #203
Name removed May 2017 #4
Freddie May 2017 #5
RandySF May 2017 #6
dalton99a May 2017 #12
demosincebirth May 2017 #13
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Hekate May 2017 #19
Alice11111 May 2017 #115
B Stieg May 2017 #25
nocalflea May 2017 #59
Bengus81 May 2017 #89
susanna May 2017 #221
50 Shades Of Blue May 2017 #7
RandySF May 2017 #11
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Alice11111 May 2017 #119
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Upthevibe May 2017 #44
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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:45 PM

1. You Own It!

Bill Mahrer says exactly what I think. I thought this was Democratic Underground-maybe not

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Response to Stallion (Reply #1)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:11 AM

15. 'Scuse me? Are you having some heartburn over there?

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Response to Stallion (Reply #1)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:21 AM

76. Same here.

 

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Response to Stallion (Reply #1)

Sun May 7, 2017, 04:14 PM

239. Maher wants to identify as a liberal, and he is not.

He's probably a left-ward leaning libertarian, progressive subtype. He holds many positions that liberals also do, but then I also support some goals radicals and libertarians claim belong to them exclusively. Maher's behavior and attitudes toward others is decidedly NOT liberal, though, and that's always a far better indicator than the labels people slap on themselves for respectability. In this case, he's busily covering his ass with criticisms of other radicals. Them, not me!

Everyone else should learn what Maher knows. Ultimately a good 90% of Sanders primary voters moved to Clinton, 80% happily enough to downright pleased to have two candidates they were happy with.

Of that other 10%-ish he's deliberately mislabeling (funny how MANY do that, a real indicator of where those people are coming from), few are liberals. Most were radicals, some reactionary conservatives, some libertarians who despise liberals.

Liberal and conservative, and probably libertarian, are BASIC PERSONALITY TYPES. We literally have different moral codes, different definitions of what is moral. We even process new information in different ways.

Maybe go read about liberal personality characteristics and the same for radicals, reactionaries and outright extremists, left and right, and see who he's really talking about.

Understand basic personality characteristics, and a big light will come on illuminating political attitudes.

One thing that will be learned is liberals are VERY DIFFERENT from all those others, far left, far right, mainstream conservatives, and libertarians right and left (most of whom are reactionary). Liberal thought dominated when our nation was founded and it dominates the Democratic Party now.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:50 PM

2. Tell.It.Bill.

On balance, I'm not that much of a Maher fan, but this spot on.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #2)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:28 PM

112. Same here. This was spot on!! No longer a fan- he lost me

w his misogynist jokes of the handicapped. He hit it on all notes in this though. I'm saving it to send to people who voted for DT because they couldn't stand Hillary.
They and the purists elected DT.

Has anyone else wondered about that photo of not just Michael Flynn dining w Putin, but Jill Stein sitting there too. Putin's friends. She certainly helped defeat Clinton too.

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Response to Alice11111 (Reply #112)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:50 PM

150. that was her purpose in running. IMHO

Bill Maher is right, everything they said about her was propaganda to keep people from voting democratic.

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Response to demigoddess (Reply #150)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:01 PM

165. Yeah, another Putin Puppet

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #2)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:41 PM

175. Same here!

But with this, I agree absolutely.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:51 PM

3. Completely agree!

Like it or not we have a two-party system, folks. Unless we changed our voting method to runoff voting or similar, a third-party vote is a vote for the other guy. Plain and simple. Ralph Nader really wasn't that long ago and here we are AGAIN.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #3)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:29 AM

53. +++ agree

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Response to Freddie (Reply #3)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:21 AM

61. I'm a big proponent of Instant Runoff Voting, but I agree, until we get it, a third party

vote helps elect the guy or gal you like less.

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Response to Jno_Gilmor_ (Reply #61)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:05 AM

73. There will never be a third party under our system...not now not ever.

And if you look at Europe...they don't help all the much anyway.

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Response to Jno_Gilmor_ (Reply #61)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:44 PM

117. But a third party will never arise without votes...

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Response to Baconator (Reply #117)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:01 PM

127. Our Constitution doesn't allow coalition governments so all a 3rd party does

is strengthen the party which didn't lose the most voters to the 3rd party.

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #127)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:05 PM

129. I often wonder if both parties would ever split...

Dems and Republicans would remain the largest but with decent chunks lost at the ends of the political spectrum or even a libertarian style middle party pulled from left and right.

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Response to Jno_Gilmor_ (Reply #61)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:54 PM

152. !!!

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Response to Freddie (Reply #3)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:57 AM

86. The way I like to put it is that the Greens want to be the lefty party in parliament...

...in a country that doesn't have a parliamentary system.

And that's on the days when they have their shit together, not the more usual death-spiraling egotist collection.

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Response to JHB (Reply #86)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:46 AM

90. Good point

If only we had a parliamentary system. Although I asked my English cousin to explain it and it's a lot more complicated than ours. It's a good way to get all voices heard.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #3)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:09 PM

203. Aye we are a two party system unless of course there is a constitutional amendment that bars

any party from controlling more than x% of the seats for the Senate and the House which I personally wouldnt object to but I dont see having a snowballs chance in hell of ever being passed.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #4)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:57 PM

5. Just my personal opinion

The time to be a purist is the primary. After that, ANY Dem is better then any Repug, period.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:58 PM

6. Exactly.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:07 AM

12. +1

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:07 AM

13. I've been a yellow dog dem all of my life. Any dem over any repug, anytime!

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #13)

Mon May 8, 2017, 09:14 AM

252. a yellow Labrador is better than Raul Labrador

(the congressman who said nobody dies from lack of health care).

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:11 AM

16. Yes. Exactly.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:20 AM

19. Amen, Freddie. Since 1968 I vote left in the primaries and for the DEMOCRAT thereafter...

From Nixon onward, God help us all, I cannot support a single Republican at the ballot box.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #19)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:42 PM

115. That makes sense. Vote for whomever you want until it's

Clear that your candidate has less than a 4 pc chance and voting for that candidate will elect an extreme RWer.
If your 3 party candidate has a good chance, go for it. If there is no chance, make your vote count.

Why, especially after Nader, do libs not get this?
They will argue to the death that it is the only way to get away from a 2 party system, which they believe is the cause of all ills to society. Not the sharpest, for sure. Like the far right, they wind up voting against their own self intetest.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:37 AM

25. It really is this simple!

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:42 AM

59. I always thought that this was just a given.

Lesson learned.

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Response to nocalflea (Reply #59)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:08 AM

89. Yeah me too. If your Dem primary choice doesn't get to go to the big dance....

then GDammit,SUPPORT the one who does. This SHIT storm that we and other innocent Americans are in now because of this Cabal is proof positive.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #5)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:13 AM

221. This is what I have learned as well.

Go crazy in the primary, vote for anyone you like. Vote for the least disastrous in the general, understanding that at its foundation, our system is and remains binary; we don't have a parliament, as someone upthread mentioned.

We have the system we have. If you try to change it, expect a lot more Circus Peanuts before you get your unicorn.


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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:59 PM

7. The election was stolen by Russia for Trump.

But more people STILL were counted as voting for Clinton than for Trump, so shut the fuck up, Maher, unless you start putting the blame where it belongs.

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:06 AM

11. Stein was also a factor in key states.

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:24 AM

38. And who else likes the Russians a whole lot?

Oh that's right, Jill Stein. https://goo.gl/images/HwnOgJ

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/308353-trump-won-by-smaller-margin-than-stein-votes-in-all-three

In two key states that President-elect Donald Trump won, his margin of victory was smaller than the total number of votes for Green Party nominee Jill Stein.

In Michigan, Trump defeated Democrat Hillary Clinton by 10,704 votes, while Stein got 51,463 votes, according to current totals on the state’s official website.

And in Wisconsin, Trump’s margin over Clinton was 22,177, while Stein garnered 31,006 votes.

In Pennsylvania, meanwhile, Stein’s total of 49,485 votes was just slightly smaller than Trump’s victory margin of 67,416 votes, according to the state’s latest numbers.


I think we can spare a little blame for Jill Stein and her enablers.

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Response to Chellee (Reply #38)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:47 PM

119. Keep pointing it out! I did above too. She should also be

Investigated for her ties. You don't see anyone from Hillary or Bernie's camp sitting at that table. Just Putin helpers

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Response to Alice11111 (Reply #119)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:27 PM

142. +1

nt

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:47 AM

44. STEIN TOOK VOTES FROM KEY STATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU TELL 'EM BILL! For those of you

who STILL don't get it, tell me about the 2000 election and (may he rot in Hell) Ralph Nader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #44)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:24 AM

50. Thank you for the REALITY CHECK, Upthevibe!

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #44)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:08 PM

131. Both of them rot in hell...Nader and Stein...that is what

they gave to their countries.

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #44)

Sun May 7, 2017, 03:14 AM

224. As for me,

I've watched this Electoral College shitshow play out twice. In 2000, it gave us GWB who gave us Afghanistan/Iraq Wars - and ISIS as a result.

Who knows what this unfettered/all branches of government dipshit will bring?

Elections have consequences. Learn that early and learn it often.

And vote as if your (or others') lives depended on it, because it does. It isn't just about you; never has been and never will be.

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:20 AM

94. They had a lots of help.....

both during and after the primary. Lots.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #94)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:13 PM

134. No doubt, there were many factors. Nonetheless, somehow

I expect More patriotism from liberal political candidates than I do Putin and RW fake newsters.

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:33 AM

106. +1000000!

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:32 PM

114. it wasn't the russians. the only reason trump was acceptable and

even close is the incredible stupidity of the left in ignoring rw talk radio for 30 years.

most of the russian crap piggybacked years of anti hillary BS only possible if democrats ignored talk radio.

so while the left whines about their principles and democrats not being liberal enough and money and media they let a few hundred assholes on 1200 coordinated radio stations kick their ass, distort their principles, attack their candidates, and stop media and campaign finance reform.

until the left figures that out bernie and e warren and wellstone will be exceptions rather than the rule.

and ignorant lying flat earther sacks like ryan and trump and palin and bush will stay close to the white house. and the other major party will be led by the limbaughs and will be able to continue to deny global warming.

and progressive orgs and the dem party will continue to waste our donations and efforts, with dumbass purists pounding away about 'principles' on their computers made with slave labor..

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Response to certainot (Reply #114)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:58 PM

125. You're right, of course.

But what exactly to do about these stations besides writing/boycotting the Universities that support the RW by allowing them to broadcast their games?

Clear Channel and the rest own the airwaves, unfortunately.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #125)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:12 PM

133. at minimum rw radio/trump connection needs to get polled

it needs to be singled out of other media so analysts who ignore it start factoring it in.

dems need to put a RUSH tattoo on the heads of every republican and trump

a software combo could allow automated monitoring and searching for studying and responding in real time

all rw radio stations and all their advertisers can be 'thanked' for repealing obamacare, global warming denial, racism and sexism excuses, etc

i just listened to a few minutes of the local asshole's show ('concerned' about community and children after years of helping repeal obamacare), got some company names, called and emailed for 15 minutes - feels good

but protesting those universities could jump start a lot of that and spread quickly - just needs a progressive group or two to start it

[img][/img]

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Response to certainot (Reply #133)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:14 PM

178. We need to be careful making a big deal about right wing

 

radio. They have been losing listeners steadily for years, and most that remain are older white religious males, who will vote republican anyway.
I think starting protests against rw radio will only give it attention again. Ever hear the phrase "all publicity is good publicity"
Your barking up the wrong tree.

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Response to frankieallen (Reply #178)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:35 AM

223. ignoring it has been the biggest political mistake in history

the buzz from 1200 coordinated radio stations dominates 40 states with 80 senators.

trump is the talk radio president- that's how they beat the establishment money.

if the billionaires would pay $1000/hour for a radio infomercial selling trump, global warming denial, and attack iraq/iran, x 15 hrs/day 1200 stations are worth $5bil/year FREE FOR FUCKING BILLIONAIRES!

so you live in the city...


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Response to frankieallen (Reply #178)

Mon May 8, 2017, 09:10 AM

250. You have a point there

I'm in my mid 30s. Most of my peers don't listen to the radio (AUX cables connect their phone to the car stereo system)

Even on the rare occasions i do listen to the radio, it is FM. RW talking heads are on AM radio.

The only person I know who uses AM radio at all is my dad.

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:04 PM

128. There were MANY factors. You cite one, though a huge one.

IMO, Comey was the biggest factor, and the tipping point. Hillary agrees.

Maher makes an excellent point, and I'm usually a critic.

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Response to 50 Shades Of Blue (Reply #7)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:08 AM

219. Those who LIED and got Suckers to Vote 3rd Party own

own a big chunk of trump, too.

It was comey, Russian hackers, and the assholes who LIED about Hillary.. and Voter Suppression.

Maher is Exactly right.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Fri May 5, 2017, 11:59 PM

8. Do you think they actually care?

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Response to nycbos (Reply #8)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:33 AM

41. Do you think they actually care?

NO Stein doesn't, because she's still taking shots at Hillary.

Hey Stein. Hope you enjoyed all that ruskie food you traitor.

?1479834100

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Response to LenaBaby61 (Reply #41)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:17 PM

136. !!! They don't care one whit. Yes, Stein gobble up for Putin

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Response to nycbos (Reply #8)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:34 AM

58. Good point.

Maybe they'll grow up and get real when they personally start to suffer.Hard lesson for the hard- headed.

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Response to nycbos (Reply #8)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:09 AM

220. No they don't give a shit if the Planet is going to hell.. it's

all about them.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:01 AM

9. Maher certainly nailed that one. Good for him for saying it.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:04 AM

10. Good for you, Bill Maher!

It can't be said often enough.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:09 AM

14. I'm usually luke warm over Maher

I don't know if it's his delivery, tone, or facial expressions. Something just doesn't make me take him seriously at all.

But reading this, it is EXACTLY what I am thinking.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #14)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:00 AM

80. He's a comedian

 

So you should take him exactly as seriously as you would take any other comedian.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #80)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:06 PM

109. Like Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, etc.?

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Response to maddiemom (Reply #109)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:36 PM

160. Exactly

 

To quote John Stewart: "You're on CNN. The show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls. What is wrong with you?"

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Response to oberliner (Reply #160)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:57 PM

163. If you're missing

 

Jon Stewart and the Daily Show, a few are reunited on Tuesday night's Colbert show:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/jon-stewart-stephen-colbert-late-show-1202408513/

“The Daily Show” alumni Jon Stewart, Samantha Bee, John Oliver, Ed Helms, and Rob Corddry will reunite May 9 with Stephen Colbert on “The Late Show.”

Bee, Oliver, Helms, Corddry and Colbert were all correspondents on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show” at various points during Stewart’s tenure as host, which lasted from 1999 to 2015. Each went on succeed elsewhere in television and film after leaving — Bee as host TBS’ “Full Frontal; Oliver on his HBO show “Last Week Tonight”; Helms in “The Office” and “The Hangover”; and Corddry as creator and star of Adult Swim’s “Children’s Hospital.”

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #163)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:10 PM

168. Samantha Bee is a new favorite of mine

 

I've really enjoyed her material.

I do think it's important to remember, though, that these are comedians, and their primarily goal is to be funny (which they usually are) and to get people to watch their programs.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #168)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:19 PM

211. Your trying too hard to make an incorrect point.

 

From its very beginning performance arts used satire and other entertaining but either funny, sad, or other artistic devices to make political points.

The fact that it is funny or sad or is aimed at creating other emotional responses in the audience doesn't mean the message is irrelevant.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #211)

Sun May 7, 2017, 05:54 AM

225. Watch the John Stewart clip on Crossfire

 

It might help you understand.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #225)

Sun May 7, 2017, 01:57 PM

231. I've watched it dozens of times over the years. I know what he said.

 

As good as Stewart is, he does not speak for the entire industry of performing arts. He also doth protest too much if he says his comments are only comedy.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #231)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:09 AM

244. So you are on the Tucker Carlson side of that particular debate

 

Because that was the same argument that he made with respect to Stewart's comments.

Personally I'm with Stewart. Comedians tell jokes and try to be funny. Sometimes political figures provide good source material for the comedy. But in the end, it's still comedy.

Bill Maher probably fancies himself a political commentator at this point, though he is still a smarmy comedian in my book.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #244)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:53 AM

248. Nope, I'm not. You're on the discounting Stewart side of the debate. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #248)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:00 PM

255. You wrote this: "He also doth protest too much if he says his comments are only comedy."

 

That was pretty much exactly what Tucker Carlson said.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #255)

Mon May 8, 2017, 11:33 PM

258. Nope, it's not what Carlson said or implied at all. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #258)

Tue May 9, 2017, 09:44 AM

265. It is nearly verbatim what he said

 

Last edited Tue May 9, 2017, 10:55 AM - Edit history (1)

In fact, he elaborated on that point in several interviews thereafter, arguing that obviously Jon Stewart is doing more than just comedy and has a partisan agenda.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #244)

Mon May 8, 2017, 09:04 AM

249. I can empathize with your desire to minimize and trivialize the accuracy of satire.

I can empathize with your desire to minimize and trivialize the accuracy of satire.

Many have said the same in regards to Horace, Vonnegut, Orwell, Twain, and Dickens; though it would seem, time has eventually illustrated those critics as both short-sighted and narrow-minded.

Horatian satire requires insight, and thus, may be difficult for many people to perceive as anything other than 'comedy.'

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #249)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:00 PM

256. Thank you

 

I appreciate your empathy.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #256)

Tue May 9, 2017, 07:59 AM

262. Shoot, if all you wanted was empathy for being wrong we could have cut this convo short. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #262)

Tue May 9, 2017, 09:39 AM

264. Everyone is entitled to their opinion

 

Mine is that comedians are comedians, not political analysts. I think that is a reasonable position.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #168)

Mon May 8, 2017, 05:40 AM

243. I think it's important to remember

 

these are the people who reach the youth. If they can make me laugh (and they all do) at the same time, even better.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #243)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:10 AM

245. If the youth are getting their political analysis from comedians than we are in trouble

 

Although I'm not sure getting it from Chris Matthews or Joe Scarborough is any better.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #245)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:28 AM

247. If those are my choices

 

Bring on Stewart, Colbert, Bee and the rest. NONE of those people are journalists so I may as well have some humor with my analysis. Whatever gets the young people engaged is fine with me. The newest group of voters is alarmingly disengaged.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #168)

Mon May 8, 2017, 09:10 AM

251. But it's not funny if it's not true.

That's why comedy is more accurate than the news these days.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #14)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:22 PM

139. Maher nailed it here. Well said. You are right, Maher has problems

He makes fun of the handicapped, makes misogynist statements.... He can be hysterical, but he doesn't have the class, or smarts, of Jon Stewart or Colbert. Being a comedian doesn't give you a license to be cruel, and sometimes Maher is.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:15 AM

17. If you did not vote at all you are to blame just as much as if you voted for tRump!

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #17)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:23 PM

140. Definitely a factor, but I bet almost all people here voted.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:17 AM

18. K&R. Not a Maher fan, but he hit it out of the park with this one

I don't know whom I despise more...the trumpsters or the purists. They are all despicable, self-centered, stupid moronic deplorables.

They are all equally guilty of the tragedy that this government is and all the lives (millions) destroyed by it.

SHAME, SHAME ON THEM ALL!!!

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #18)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:32 AM

22. +1000

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #18)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:25 PM

141. !!!

I started reading this, and at first, I thought I wrote it. I looked up and saw your name.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:24 AM

20. It's a righteous, fact-filled rant--everyone should view this clip.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:25 AM

21. Purism in politics never works.

 

Life is complicated.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:32 AM

23. I Don't Understand Why a Self Proclaimed Liberal Would Have a Problem with HRC

From the time of WJC's first run for president, I had great respect for her. I heard or read about the work she did for women and children. Her hard work in getting people health care. It was obvious that she was a stellar, wonderful person being smeared by rethugs. She has been the most admired woman in the world around the world - except for her own country that she served so well.

Of course they had to try to tear her down. If people know the truth, she would be an unstoppable force against the rethugs. The propaganda, persecution, and vicious attacks worked. Many people hate her for no good reason. How many of those haters have children who have health care because of Hilary?

Maher is right.

About the only good thing about not having Hilary as our president is that we don't have to go through the daily catapults of shit that they would throw at her. She has had enough and so have we. I wish her a happy, long, and peaceful life with her family and friends. I bet she is just about the most awesome grandma a kid could hope for.

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Response to Leith (Reply #23)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:46 AM

84. I can explain how I feel about Hillary.

For me, the Iraq War vote was key. I was very much against the invasion and I was upset that any Democrat would vote to support it. Only a few Senators voted against it, and they were called traitors and unpatriotic for it. It was obvious to me and many other Americans that the Bush administration wanted to invade Iraq for all the wrong reasons, and it would be a disaster, which it was. I felt like any Democrat who voted for it was cowardly and bowing to right wing pressure. So that is a big reason I have preferred Bernie over Hillary. That being said, I voted for Hillary in the presidential election. I think she would have been an excellent president.

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #84)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:58 AM

108. I Didn't Like That Vote, Either

It was bad judgment to trust the Bush regime to give out true and accurate information. Whenever I hear this argument, though, the person making it never says a word about the rethugs giving out that pack of lies. They don't say a word about the rethugs or other Democrats who voted for the Iraq invasion. They never mention that HRC's was only 1% of the total number of votes in the Senate.

Nope. It looks like we would rather harp on her one small part of the debacle 15 years ago.

Never mind the millions of children who have health care because of her work. Never mind everything she accomplished in office, as First Lady of the nation and Arkansas, as Secretary of State, and as a private citizen. Never mind the considerable and impressive good she has ever done in the past 3+ decades. Let's just rake her over the coals for that one thing. While we're at it, let's whine that she doesn't bake cookies.

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Response to Leith (Reply #108)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:19 PM

110. You aren't speaking for me, I don't whine about anything.

I appreciate all the good things Hillary has done and, as I said in my reply, I voted for her and I think she would have been a great president.
In my opinion, the Iraq invasion was the largest political blunder in my lifetime. I am entitled to my opinions, and in my opinion, the Democrats who voted for the invasion were cowardly and were bowing to right wing pressure. Please don't put words in my mouth.

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #110)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:54 PM

122. I Wasn't Speaking for You

For you to claim that I was is shifting the conversation. Nice try, but I don't deflect.


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Response to Leith (Reply #122)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:21 PM

138. You asked why any liberal would have a problem with Hillary Clinton.

I gave you my thoughts on why I have my misgivings about her. Then you became very defensive and started talking about whiners and baking cookies.
If you don't want to have a thoughtful discussion about other points of view, don't ask for them.

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Response to Bluepinky (Reply #138)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:21 PM

179. Congratulations.

You got exactly what you wanted. We don't have a Democrat who voted for the Iraq war in the White House. I'm sure you're very pleased with yourself.

I don't want to hear any justifications from someone who, even today, can't help attacking Hillary Clinton and calling her names. You are going directly to my ignore list. Enjoy the next 4-8 years.

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Response to athena (Reply #179)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:34 PM

195. I did vote for Hillary, can't you read?

And if you read my post, you would see that I wasn't attacking anyone.
A little thin skinned are you?

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Response to Leith (Reply #23)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:54 PM

121. There was a motivated group of people...

... Who really hated her for whatever reason.

Exact percentage of the voting population? Dunno

I think the larger issue was an enthusiasm gap for people who didn't hate her but weren't motivated to go out of their way to vote for her either.

Trump came across, IMHO, as more genuine. Even if that genuine personality was that of an asshole.

Add to that some campaign mismanagement and both sides being perceived as 'the lesser of two evils' and this is what we get.

Little things and big things but certainly not one thing.

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Response to Leith (Reply #23)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:34 PM

144. Yeah, the RW had already written Articles of Impeachment

& Hypocrite Chaffetz had 200 things planned to investigate her for. She is one tough cookie though.

Like someone said above, one reason they hate her is they have listened to 30 years of RW talk radio lies. Also, she shares the shit out of them! She had the guts to call out Putin for assisting with genocide, for his corrupt elections, for his corrupt business deals....

It would be painful to watch the RW disembowel her, but it's much worse to watch them disembowel our country.

Good job Maher. Often, he gets it right. The problem is he has a missing screw when it comes to empathy.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:32 AM

24. And as usual......

As long as Maher agrees with our own opinions, he's a fucking hero.

P. S. I love Bill, even when I disagree with him.

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Response to Glamrock (Reply #24)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:17 AM

75. I do, to. I like his style of acerbic wit. It's why I love Russell Brand,

 

as well.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:40 AM

26. Spot on

But this is what we get when there were so many assumptions made and things taken for granted. Now we have to learn and move forward. We have to fight. We have to stop being butt hurt about everything, stop with the purity tests for the party and unite. Everyone has to vote. We have to mobilize for midterms. I think that they should use the lesser of 2 evils in the campaigns somehow. Maybe it will make the spiteful get up off their asses and vote. There is so much material for campaign ads in this 100 days alone. I love Bill Maher.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #26)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:19 AM

37. I don't think

"Lesser of two evils" should ever be mentioned in campaigns.

It just gives hipster asshats the window of opportunity to pontificate "Lesser evil is still evil, that's why I'm with the Green Party/staying home!"

The alternative to right-wing fuckery is NOT evil at all. That's the point.

I do agree that the last 100 days will make good material though.

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Response to Manly_Scream (Reply #37)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:10 AM

45. Welcome to DU, Manly_Scream!

There's one reason why I'll never look at Susan Sarandon again. Not ever. And I will not be looking at any of her movies from now on. Just not interested anymore. I learned a similar lesson during the post-Watergate era, when all Nixon's felons were finishing up their prison sentences and writing memoirs and hitting the speaker's and talk show circuits and cashing in: "don't buy books by crooks."

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Response to Manly_Scream (Reply #37)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:03 AM

71. Well they can sit home knowing if they get sick or have an accident as my cousing did,

they will die as my cousin did just before Obama when he had a boating accident...you vote party when faced with an evil as great as the Republicans or you pay the consequences ...sometime you with you life

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:45 AM

27. Mahar endorsed Nader over Gore in 2000.

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Response to John1956PA (Reply #27)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:54 AM

31. That was a shit for brains move

Maybe he's grown up and gets how that was a bad idea.

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Response to John1956PA (Reply #27)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:27 AM

39. He apologized directly to Gore.

And said he was wrong to do that.
https://m.

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Response to VOX (Reply #39)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:52 AM

78. Thanks for the link, but Maher should have made a strong apology to Gore voters.

Maher may have cost Gore the Florida vote, and thus the White House. As I recall, Bill Clinton was reported to be outraged by Nader's significant showing in Florida.

In his Politically Incorrect days, and at beginning of the era of his ABC show, Maher appealed to me. However, I lost my respect for him after I watched a 2000 episode of his ABC show in which he went on a rant about Bush being a worthless pretender who landed on the national stage only because of his powerful father, and then said "GORE, YOU'RE JUST AS BAD!" Maher then proceeded to endorse Nader.

As for the apology in the video, I think it was weak. I think that Maher owed us Gore voters a heartfelt, sincere apology after the 2000 election. I feel that he should have gone on his ABC show and spent as much time voicing an articulate apology as he did in his pre-election rant which may have soured enough voters on Gore to cost him the Florida vote.


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Response to John1956PA (Reply #78)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:28 PM

159. He said "I was wrong" and "I fucked up". You really need more of an apology?

What else could he do? Denounce third-party purist voting? Use his public position to warn people against splitting the liberal vote?

No, wait, he's already doing that too. What will ever make it good enough?

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Response to Bucky (Reply #159)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:56 PM

207. Apparently he should have crawled naked over over broken glass...

before tugging on Gore's pant legs, and spit-shining his shoes with tears of soul-deep regret.

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Response to VOX (Reply #207)

Sun May 7, 2017, 01:07 AM

215. Maher never apologized to those of us who voted for Gore.

Maher is gaining popularity, and adding to his wealth, by means of his "organic cucumber rant" without acknowledging to his current audience the occurrence of his 2000 rant which was just much against Gore it was against Bush. To the best of my memory, Maher's 2000 rant included his exclamation, "Bush, you suck! And Gore, you are just as bad." I do not think that Maher would want a video of that rant to be uncovered and shown to his current audience.

As for your question about what self-inflicted contrition pains Maher should offer to Gore, I am not focused on what apology Maher has offered to Gore, although I will say that the apology in the above video clip (if it can be termed an apology) appears rather weak. What I would like to see is Maher looking into the camera lens and offering a heartfelt apology to those of us who voted for Gore only to see our hopes dashed possibly because Maher exhorted his 2000 audience to vote for Nader.



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Response to John1956PA (Reply #215)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:07 PM

234. You'll be alright

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:45 AM

28. Couldn't agree more!

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Response to Mickju (Reply #28)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:24 AM

49. Welcome to DU, Mickju!

I have thought ALL those things that Bill Maher said in this clip.

What I want to see now is more newsfolk and talking heads openly speculating about the comparisons. What if this were Hillary? What would you do about all this in-bed-with-Russia stuff if this were Hillary? What if Hillary was keeping her income tax returns hidden? What if Hillary had nominated an international money-launderer for her cabinet? What if Hillary sent her daughter to international gatherings and speaking officially for the White House with no such experience or on-the-books accountability? What if Hillary took off one weekend out of every two, to play golf at her fancy country club which she owned and immediately doubled the price of membership? What if she announced foreign policy offensives for her dinner guests' amusements? How come she's held to account for lies she never told, while he lies like normal people breathe and few people even care about bringing it up anymore?

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:47 AM

29. The candidate barely matters at all

 

The votes are a party line avalanche either way. Will the president sign it? That's what you're choosing, along with big ticket decisions like Supreme Court.

My aunt has no clue. She has no idea what either party stands for. So she watches the primaries and the debates and aligns with anything that attracts her. Last year she quickly sided with Donald Trump so naturally she devoured the fake news and everything else. To this day she believes Hillary Clinton called Russia and asked them if they wanted all of our uranium. Hand delivered.

I wish I were kidding. I love my aunt but in political terms she is a moron. Bill Maher is one of the few who understands how many morons are out there, and what they are capable of. It's tragic and laughable that he is viewed as objectionable while we hitch our hopes to a paperweight like Rachel Maddow, who may still be touting favorable polls for Hillary in South Carolina.

It doesn't help when Oprah Winfrey says you don't have to like Hillary. That was the masochistic attitude that seemed to attach to Democratic circles in general last year. It was like the most ardent Obama supporters were reluctant to throw full support to Hillary in some sort of stupid fear that she would eclipse him in popularity or accomplishment or whatever. I'm a handicapper and it was unmistakable.

Meanwhile, somehow we forgot or devalued what it was like to have a Republican in office. People like Susan Sarandon should be muzzled in presidential election years. There's no such thing as a place or show payoff, unlike tomorrow's Kentucky Derby. It's 4 years of hell and likely 8 years of hell. Presidents whose party has been in power only one term are re-elected almost without exception. That's the horror we face right now.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:51 AM

30. I have often wondered myself...

why they maligned Hillary so....sorry but I happen to agree with Maher

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:57 AM

32. Hell yes.

Sad how many of those type comments were said by more than a few right here on this site.

I wonder if those who tore her down are happy now.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #32)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:01 AM

33. If anyone was advocating voting 3rd party or not voting for Hillary in the general, they were

breaking the rules in a big way.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #33)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:27 AM

52. Yes they did break the rules and hence

no longer here.

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Response to Cha (Reply #52)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:23 AM

105. At least one said she wrote in Bernie's name, and she is still here. n/t

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:02 AM

34. He's right, of course.

I don't know anyone who admits voting for Jill Stein this past time around, although I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people I fought with 17 years ago over Ralph Nader did so.

The vast majority of people I know voted for HRC, whether they were thrilled with her as the nominee, or not.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #34)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:38 PM

145. The Other Side Of The Coin

Is the people that didn't vote because Hillary wasn't their first choice. They did not nullify a Trump vote and they hurt the down ballot races as well. People have to be practical on this and vote. While not smart in a contested State, a vote for Stein did not harm the down ballot races. Jill Stein is a smart lady with good ideas but zero chance of winning. Vote for her in the primary if you wish but not in the general.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #145)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:09 PM

177. Are we talking about the same Jill Stein?



The Anti-Vaccination apologist who had the weird dinner with Putin and Flynn??

No, sorry, she sucks, pure and simple, and the Green Party is less than useless.

Vote for her in the primary if you wish but not in the general.


Your statement might make sense if she had been running as a Democrat, but she wasn't.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:09 AM

35. There are NO Liberal Purists

there are trolls and those looking to profit off a republican president.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #35)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:29 AM

54. Yeah, that's a misnomer.. profiteers. Those who looked

to profit off a Democratic President, too

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:18 AM

36. Nearly 45% didn't bother to vote.

The blame can be spread over the purists, the lazy, the disengaged.

Lots of blame to go around. But I agree with Maher that the purists blew it. They bothered to show up. Their protest vote gave us Trump.

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Response to Mz Pip (Reply #36)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:30 AM

63. "Purism," I agree was a big problem, but I actually think apathy and disengament probably played a

bigger role in Hillary's defeat. At the same time because Trump's "victory" was so narrow, the purists probably could have pushed her over the edge.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:31 AM

40. Maher was absolutely right

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:42 AM

42. I am so glad Maher can say in public what so many feel in private

...but don't dare say so on camera because it's not PC.

(Right, so what we have now IS PC?)

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:47 AM

43. The DNC should never have put Cornel West on the platform

committee. Bonehead move, yielded no positive results.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #43)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:00 AM

87. Amen! Thank you! He was very damaging. I can't stand his smugness...

... and before I stopped watching Maher entirely, his presence on the Real Time show panel meant that I would NOT be watching.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:19 AM

46. how come Purists never support anyone who is Pure ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #46)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:22 AM

48. Really! Damn Good question... about the furthest

thing from "pure".. Why do they have to LIE if they're so PURE?

To get SUCKERS.. that's WHY.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #46)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:02 AM

67. Amen!!!

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Response to JI7 (Reply #46)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:05 AM

68. +1

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:20 AM

47. Ed Snowden was stupid to tweet that.. is that why he

DELETED?

Good on Maher.. that's what an OP around here was saying.. same thing.

Mahalo RandySF

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:26 AM

51. K&R nt

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:32 AM

55. Is it just me or...

 

Does Bill always use the "lesser of two evils" phrase wrong? He claims people wouldn't vote for Hillary because she was the lesser of two evils. But the lesser of two evils is the better person, and thus the one you want to vote for as they're less evil than the other option.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #55)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:34 AM

56. no, bill is right.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #55)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:38 AM

65. "Purists" won't go for "lesser of two evils"

"They have to EARN my vote"
"I need a reason to vote FOR someone"
No you fucking idiots sometimes voting AGAINST someone is all the reason you need.
I loved HRC and have shed many tears thinking what a great President she would have been and how all the current bullshit didn't have to be. But for those who were lukewarm about her, is what we got really better?? As John Lennon said, "How do you sleep."

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Response to Freddie (Reply #65)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:24 PM

180. Exactly.

All those who felt their vote was too good for Hillary Clinton got exactly what they wanted. I hope they are pleased with themselves and enjoy the next 4-8 years. They make me sick.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #55)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:58 AM

66. No, it means that the two choices you have are both evil.

Think of two people you hate and then decide which one you'd invite to dinner if you had to. You'd still hate the one you had dinner with. Not a compliment. Duterte or Kim Jong un: which murderous dictator would you choose? You wouldn't compare someone you like with someone you hate and then say that you'd invite the one you like to dinner because they're the "lesser of two evils," that wouldn't make any sense. I don't know why this idiom is misunderstood, but it seems some people don't get it right.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #66)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:09 AM

74. In this case with Trump's position, he was clearly the worst choice...and those who voted for him

have the blood of their fellow Americans on their hands...I consider them entitled assholes. It is not unusual not to like a presidential candidate...but you vote party or you lose policy..by the fall, the GOP will have a two vote majority on SCOTUS. This is a disaster for progressives...and when you find a candidate you like and he/she wins the presidential election you have in effect clipped his/her wings with a right wing court. God knows what else we will lose before this is over.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #74)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:25 AM

77. Anyone using "the lesser of two evils" in the last election is out of their minds, as Maher said.

I was so optimistic about the U.S. the last couple of years, and now that's gone. I expect the exact same bullshit things to happen in future elections, have given up hope. Maybe some blue states will be okay, but the massive loss of human potential and life on a national scale will be tragic.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #77)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:56 PM

123. No we can fix this...our kids are counting on us...they want us demoralized but we will not be.

We will resist and persist with everything we have.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #55)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:29 AM

95. I've heard the 'lesser of two evils' argument for years

 

During the primaries last year is said countless time by Bernie supporters who refused to support Clinton.

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Response to OliverQ (Reply #55)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:38 PM

146. No. He's referring to the bullshit false equivalency

 

People who put Clinton and Trump in the same category, as if they were comparable. Just check out JPR.

And most of those people called themselves "progressives." I won't say more right now.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:34 AM

57. Exactly what I think

Thank you, Maher, for telling it like it is. I can't stand any of those purists--how absolutely arrogant of them to fight against Hillary harder than they fought against tRump and all the while claiming to be progressives. They had no regard at all for those who would lose their insurance, face discrimination, etc. And they still insist on purity, arguing against Dems taking any "corporate money" while the rich Repugs just sit back and hope we face the next election with limited funds for advertising and will sit there dumbfounded while they flood the airwaves/media outlets with their propaganda funded by their Citizens United $billions.

It has been so distressing this week to have Facebook friends who claim to be progressives post "I wish she would shut up and go away" after Hillary finally spoke out on the realities of the election. Here is a woman acting with dignity after being totally screwed over and should be held up as a hero for that. Instead, they treat her with disdain equal or greater than they have for tRump and his sleazy cronies. Makes me very uneasy about our ability to make gains in 2018. These "purists" will still be griping about the Democratic party "stealing" the primary from Bernie (who they think would have won the general--he wouldn't have) and making the less informed voter suspicious of the Dems. We ALL need to be laser focused on the Repugs!!!

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 04:03 AM

60. + 1000 Thanks Bill

What a fucking mess this country is in now.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:24 AM

62. Thinking a Democratic president in 2017 would be a "neoliberal disaster"

about the same as a Republican "fascist disaster": Bill is right, "Have you people lost your fucking minds?"

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:33 AM

64. Noam Chomsky was right, "Progressives who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton made a bad mistake"

“I think they [made] a bad mistake,” said Chomsky, who reiterated that it’s important to keep a “greater evil” from obtaining power, even if you’re not thrilled with the alternative. “I didn’t like Clinton at all, but her positions are much better than Trump’s on every issue I can think of.”

Chomsky also attacked the arguments made by philosopher Slavoj Zizek, who argued that Trump’s election would at least shake up the system and provide a real rallying point for the left.

“[Zizek makes a] terrible point,” Chomsky told Hasan. “It was the same point that people like him said about Hitler in the early ’30s… he’ll shake up the system in bad ways.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/noam-chomsky-progressives-who-refused-to-vote-for-hillary-clinton-made-a-bad-mistake/

and unless this can be reversed in 2018, it is only going to get worse.

What is happening should not surprise anyone

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:34 AM

69. maher is 100% correct...those who wouldn't support the lesser of 2 evils GAVE AMERICA REAL EVIL

 

it wasn't the trump voter...we expect THEIR ignorance

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:57 AM

70. BOB idiots, JPR idiots and Stein supporters helped to elect trump

These voters need to be happy with the SCOTUS being taken over by right wing nut jobs

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #70)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:04 AM

72. In fact they were Trump supporters...and we saw Jilly all cozy with Putin...bet she took money from

the Russians.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #70)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:03 AM

82. The only good thing about JPR

is that it cleared out some of the jackals skulking around here. Of course, some have since skulked back.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #70)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:39 AM

98. +1, I looked at that site the other day and they are pointing fingers at each other for

being impure. They can't even decide amongst themselves who is the purest of them all.

And they sure did help to elect him. There were only about 75,000 voters who decided this election. When you look at the margins, the BOB and Stein idiots account for it.


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Response to R B Garr (Reply #98)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:59 PM

237. OMG

Mirror on the wall who's the purest of us all?

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:58 AM

79. Thank you Bill Maher

nt

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:02 AM

81. Jill Stein and Cornel West are still speaking out against HRC and Democrats

 

They were never on our side.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:45 AM

83. So do you folks really think

 

there were more disgruntled leftists who didn't vote for Secretary Clinton than there were formerly Democrat white suburban women (who were the primary target of post primary campaigning) who voted for Trump?

I wondering because I see a lot of blame being thrown on a couple of groups (liberals and working class voters) WHO VOTED FOR CLINTON and I seem to be missing the posts about the 55% of suburban white women (one of the largest voting blocks) who actually pulled the lever for Trump?

Example: In Michigan, white women made up 40% of voters (higher than white men) and voted for Trump by an 8% margin. (a -18% swing from 2008)

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #83)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:31 AM

96. There were both.

 

But that doesn't mean that either side is without blame and shouldn't be called out on it.

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #96)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:10 AM

103. That is true

 

But there seems to be a lot more focus on a small number of disloyal lefties than there is on a huge number of disloyal suburban white women.

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #103)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:20 PM

111. The fact is that the disloyal lefties had organized campaigns that promoted boycotting

the election, and they called themselves Bernie or Bust. That is a simple fact.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #111)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:45 PM

118. Regardless

 

It is also a simple fact that, notwithstanding this "organized campaign" of a handful of self-centered nutcases (Yes, Ms. Sarandon, it is easy to talk about "burning it all down" when you aren't he one who has Jeff Sessions' goon squad shooting down your black sons and daughters in the streets), leftists OVERWHELMINGLY stuck with OUR candidate.

(Extrapolating from Michigan numbers) White suburban women (women whom we heavily targeted in the post-primary campaign), HOWEVER, were disloyal to the "n"th degree. 18% of this, the largest demographic group of voters in the election, stabbed us in the back and left the 2008 coalition to vote for Trump..

That is a simple fact as well.

Where are the thousand broad-brushed OP's directing comments like Maher's to that group? Where are the posts questioning why "they" are "hanging around" DU? Where are the posts saying that "they" need to either get behind every candidate with a "D" behind their name or find another party?

Why are leftists, why are working class voters, both of which voted in a majority for OUR candidate, the ones being vilified in the face of this simple fact?

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #118)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:47 PM

120. Because they had an ORGANIZED CAMPAIGN to BOYCOTT. And it was all for vanity

purposes that they were too pure to vote for Hillary. THAT'S WHY. And none of the housewives had ORGANIZED CAMPAIGNS to vilify our own candidate.

Jeebus, this isn't hard.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #120)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:15 PM

135. Are you being serious?

 

A handful of privileged clowns like Sarandon (and a bunch of Russia-bots who weren't leftists at all) say reprehensible shit that basically EVERYONE on the left ignored and YOU think that's justification for attacking the "leftists" who voted OVERWHELMINGLY for OUR candidate?

BUT white women living in the suburbs don't deserve the same kind of condemnation because they didn't say bad shit before they silently slid the knife in Hillary Clinton's back?

Yea, you're right, it isn't hard at all to see what is going on here and it has nothing to do with the last election.

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #135)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:21 PM

137. It looks like you are the one not being serious. There were only

70,000 to 80,000 voters who decided this election. There were ORGANIZED CAMPAIGNS of bitter holdouts and a fleet of whiners criticizing our candidate at every turn.

I see you are really hot to blame women, though. Welcome to DU.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #137)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:03 PM

153. I was expecting that straw man earlier

 

This constant attack on "leftists" has nothing to do the last election.

Because of the close margins you mentioned, there are dozens of factors that "cost us the election." The 1.1% (in Michigan) who voted for Stein, Comey (X2, btw, because not only was that a BS move regarding the Abedin emails, he should have told us about ONGOING Russian interference REGARDLESS of whether there was coordination), election day voter suppression, pre-election voter registration/ID barriers, and many more. Quite frankly, given the margin in Michigan, you could say that people like myself, black males, cost Hillary the election because, even though not as many of us flipped as white women and even though we still voted heavily for her, there were enough who flipped to change the outcome. Even though working class voters also voted in a majority for OUR candidate, enough flipped from Democrat in 2008 to Republican in 2016 to make a difference. And, of course, as I have shown to you already, white women stabbed us in the back too. No one can deny any of that any one of these factors, standing alone, cost us the election. In fact, the only demographic to come through as strong in 2016 as in 2008 were black women.

This FACT notwithstanding, the ONLY groups which get attacked here, and they get attacked multiple times a day, are the two groups which cost us the fewest votes. I bring up white women in the suburbs and the even greater impact of their abandonment of our party on the outcome of this election NOT to blame them the same way YOU and others blame "leftists;" not to suggest that they should leave the party the same way many have suggested "leftists" leave the party; not to suggest that they must ALWAYS vote for the candidate with a "D" behind their name eschew the title "loyal Democrat" in the same way many have suggested "leftists" must do . . .

BUT

to point out that the incessant attacks on "leftists" are not being leveled because "they cost us the election" (because based on the math so did other groups -- like women and even black men like me -- who none of us want out of the party) but because the folks making these attacks want leftists and their influence out of the party because they do not want the party moving left.

Of course, we never have that argument because we are too busy having 400 post strings about the Jill Stein straw man.

Thanks for the welcome. Glad to be here.

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #153)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:11 PM

154. There were 70,000 to 80,000 people who decided this election. It's obvious you're

trying to spam some excuses as to why badmouthing our Democratic nominee was okay with a swath of bitter holdouts who had an ORGANIZED CAMPAIGN to BOYCOTT voting for our nominee.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #154)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:13 PM

155. Whatever

 

I have condemned those clowns in every post I have made in this string.

Spin away

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #155)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:36 PM

161. Read what Bill Maher said*. It's on this thread you're posting on.

And it's not "spin". It's a fact -- there were boycott groups. Fact.

*one highlight. Maher said, "learning the difference between an imperfect friend and a deadly enemy." Relating to the false equivalence that Hillary was the lesser of two evils that is now completely shown for the trash statement that it always was.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #161)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:06 PM

166. Absolutely

 

There were indeed such groups and what they said wasn't just stupid beyond belief, it was damaging. I don't know how many times I can repeat that.

BUT

Acting like Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon, and Cornell West or the "leftists" for which Maher uses them as shorthand are any more responsible for what happened than, yes, black men like me, white suburban women, and the other demographics that went for Trump in FAR greater numbers than leftists is just looking for an excuse to attack leftist.

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #166)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:22 PM

169. Those people and their followers are the exact target of Maher's diatribe,

and they should be. They are the ones who put on the vulgar displays against Hillary for no good reason, so they are blamed, yes. None of the other groups you mention had organized campaigns against Hillary and absolutely ignorant talking points about Democrats (notwithstanding the outright bigots and RW racists, etc.). Maher is talking about the leftists, one quote, "are you out of your fucking mind?*"

*You should view his comments about that. It illustrated how completely irrational the gibberish about neoliberalism is that the "leftists" were spouting, i.e., Maher's comment, "what does that even mean."

Seriously, you should view Maher's comments.

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #83)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:59 AM

101. In Michigan Jill Stein got 51,643 votes. Hillary lost by 10,614.

So using your example - yeah, the 'disgruntled leftists' did make a difference.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #101)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:06 AM

102. See post 99 n/t

 

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #83)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:58 PM

185. I never understood why the "but but but others were also at fault" argument is ever taken seriously.

If five people rob a bank, an argument along the lines of "but but but there were four others" would be laughed out of the room.

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Response to BzaDem (Reply #185)

Sun May 7, 2017, 07:25 AM

227. Do you wonder why the

 

"But it's only the guy driving the get a way who needs to be punished" argument is ever taken seriously?

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 08:50 AM

85. By the way

 

I wonder who helped Trump more, a fringe candidate like Stein, or a wildly popular "liberal" comedian who preached week after week about the evil of Islam at the same time OUR CANDIDATE was CORRECTLY going after Trump for saying the same thing?

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:04 AM

88. Ratfucker Snowden, ratfucker Stein, the BoBs can all go to hell.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:59 AM

91. I wish the ones who "hang out" here would leave. Seriously... why are they here?

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #91)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:27 PM

143. They need a break from Twitter

 

for all the harassment they give to Democratic officials, POC and women. I often ask other users on Twitter why do you even engage with them after all they could be Russian trolls but on the other hand they could be those SOBs who booed John Lewis and other black leaders at convention. So we are at a point now where you don't know who is doing the harassing online is an American or a paid foreign troll. And who is using who's talking points first?

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:07 AM

92. Maher is Right

Sometimes doing it your way has dire consequences. We are only just beginning to live the Trump presidency nightmare!

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:13 AM

93. +1

[link:|

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:33 AM

97. Maher nailed this one.

 

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:50 AM

99. As long as the blame game is so popular

 

Let's do the math on whether fringe Stein voters or white women hurt OUR candidate worse. As I mentioned before, 40% of the total votes in Michigan were cast by white women and OUR candidate got 18% less of that demographic than OUR candidate did in 2008. That means that we lost 7.2% of the total vote as a result of white women who voted with us in 2008 voting for Trump in 2016. Now let's see what percentage of the vote we lost from lefties voting for Stein. Oh yea, 1.1%.

Now ask yourself, why do we have hundreds, if not thousands, of posts calling for the ouster of lefties from the Democratic Party after 98.9% of them voted with us in Michigan and nary a word about the 18% of Michigan white women who abandoned us to vote for a monster?

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Response to WellDarn (Reply #99)

Sat May 6, 2017, 04:00 PM

170. An assertion that one can identify other parties with guilt does not make one innocent.

Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon - and that paranoid idiot Ralph Nader before them - worked to attack the only person who could realistically prevent Trumpism from prevailing.

Their stupidity was obviously criminal, and remains criminal.

In any case, no one here, I believe, is calling for the "ouster" of anyone. They are simply pointing out that there are a subset of people on the far left who are complete assholes.

And they are...

...complete assholes.

I'm not a big Maher fan, but I certainly agree with his sentiment here. Ms. Clinton is more accomplished, smarter, and more ethical than these mindless self absorbed people could ever hope to be, but for some reason, there are people who think that they should still be defended, despite the consequences of their actions which Maher correctly pointed out.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:57 AM

100. I'm with Maher on this.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #100)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:42 PM

149. I'm with Maher on this.

I generally run hot and cold with Maher, but am in total agreement with him on this.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:14 AM

104. While we're at it, let's not let the "responsible" Republicans off the hook...

Last edited Sat May 6, 2017, 10:26 PM - Edit history (1)

...because, jeebus krismas, they're responsible for Trump too.

Both the Greens a Libertarians got about three times as many votes in 2016 as in 2012. However, the Libertarian vote continued to be about three times that of the Goobers.

Most of the Greenie boost is assumed, with good reason, to be from lefty purists who refused to vote for Hillary.

But what about the Libertarian boost? Who suddenly decided to switch to them? Why, another set who absolutely refused to vote for Hillary, but this bunch wasn't a pack of "purists". Nooooo, these people were supposedly "responsible" people, despite the fact that they had spent years snorting just as much conservative axe-grinding dust about the Clintons and Obama as the MAGAts. They wouldn't vote for Trump because he was too crass for them, but they weren't so concerned about it that they would take actual action to defeat him. What was important to them was not voting for That Woman.

In 1964 plenty of Republicans voted for Johnson because Goldwater was beyond the pale for them. In 2016, they voted for a different Johnson because to them, Trump was merely distasteful.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:35 AM

107. K & r. This hit all my anger and rage buttons. N/t

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:31 PM

113. I like the "organically grown cucumber." I'll steal that line. I have felt this way going back...

...to the days of that fucking psycho idiot Ralph Nader; and it goes on and on and on.

These people, the "liberal purists" in general, are not very bright, not every well educated, not very ethical, and don't know what the fuck is going on in the world.

In other words, they're defacto Republicans, and all their self serving bullshit excuses will not change that fact.

A special "Go fuck yourself" should be extended to that defacto repuke Susan Sarandon.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:43 PM

116. Oh yay more liberal bashing from Maher

I don't watch his show at all because I can't stand him.

I voted for Hillary Clinton myself but I understand the complaints of all politicians (they are not looking out for us) but I always vote D in the general election. Cornell West I have no idea who he voted for but I think the world is fucked but please blame the Republicans. The Republican party which is somehow a major political party consistently push climate denial (honestly, they know its the oil companies), big business, deregulation, tax cuts (for the rich but they fool their base as low taxes for working people), privatization, not to mention the insane bizarre conspiracy theories pushed on talk radio.

I'm getting sick of all the blame directed at liberals (who Bill Maher literally said he hates liberals when the audience groaned at his joke) but for some reason we don't blame the conservative voters even after Hoover or Bush (the great recession caused by GOP goodies).

A lot of people are a political by far out of most people I meet, they may technically be a registered to a party but outside of Presidential elections most people generally don't care about politics and you know most people I came across felt like they didn't like either one. It is difficult to explain what I mean but people have jobs or hobbies and even when politics are brought up a lot of people are badly misinformed, buy into stuff like Free Masons or New World Order, One world government, one world currency. I can reasonably highlight the fallacies whenever I'm in a discussion. Outside of that most people simply repeat talking points or whatever storylines are pushed by the news media or politicians. Hillary Clinton being in the news regarding the private e-mail survey likely had an impact on mostly neutral people. I think there are far bigger scandals but the Republicans are best at ignoring real scandals (because it would reflect back at them) while manufacturing outrage.

Unless we do something about GOP tactics and their policies are easy to tear down going back over 100 years regarding economic policies but there is so much propaganda out there. Plus how many voters were barred from voting? How many more faced increasingly confusing obstacles to voting. Only going by what we do know..

On to Bill Maher ever since the election he's been looking for lefty groups to scapegoat Usually on his personal segments he takes the opportunity to find a target and there is no debate on these things but I think one example was millennial or something making a blanket statement even though they weren't the only group to have a turnout shortfall it is more acceptable to make generalizations -- looking for anyone to scold except for the Republicans which the common mentality for some reason we don't blame them for backing the party that has done all of the above & more "“Just wait until the 5 to 4 decisions start rolling in, gutting unions, making it harder for minorities to vote, siding with polluters, overturning abortion rights". My point is if there was someone that fits the shoe considering he choose a very devisive approach where his smug "I'm the smartest guy in the room" would actually probably push them away.

On a similar related issue Maher seems to prefer the racist Republicans because he cries "political correctness" for saying something that either isn't funny or something about the response he disapproves of. Every comedian occasionally receives groans or much worse, it isn't a big deal but when the audience groaned at a joke not to long ago he looked at his panel and said, "I hate Liberals".

He has a national TV show, he could do a lot to inform on policy and so many things but of course he isn't as smart as he thinks he is.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #116)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:08 PM

235. Sometimes the truth makes people uncomfortable

That is the case here.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #235)

Sun May 7, 2017, 03:26 PM

238. I really have no idea who these people

So called liberals but shit people vote or not vote for all sorts of reasons. I knew someone that hasn't cast a vote since the 60s (last I eaw him was '05).

Myself I voted for every Democratic President but so far the Republican won Arizona so it isn't like it had meaning one way or the other since winner takes all of the electoral votes. The Congressional elections and state wide races probably matter more as far as my vote is concerned.

In Arizona registered Independents make up a third of the party registrations (All three parties make up about 33 percent each) just to give a referrence of where I'm coming from.

I actually quit watching his show awhile ago but I was more speaking to the mindset where people have reasonable criticisms or concerns (not like the GOP with manufactured outrage over something far from reality).

For some reason quite a few people do more to attack the party's base or like minded individuals while we excuse the Republicans for actually voting them in like it's not their fault.

Does it bother them as much as it does Maher? He's in a position with a TV show to airwhatever personal grievences he has in a way the debate is one sided so he puts on a show in a way where while he does whoever the other people (I'm referencing a lot of other issues or controversies like the Berkeley thing for one) so as feeling comfortable so the reason they're trashing those voters is because if they did vote they likely would have voted for the D but honestly I think they feel entitled to their support (ironically since Bill Maher was Independent on the Libertarian side before but everyone has their own policies or ideas that they favored which he himself said there wasn't a lot of difference between the two parties before Bush took office(who he also criticized for not being tough enough on Muslims. It took him awhile to realize that Republicans are as terrible as they really are. However, he expects other people that aren't Republicans to draw lines over anything or just didn't have a high opinion of either of the candidates which both had high unapproval ratings. Whatever the case they should be trying to win over their vote but instead they blame them over being upset about policy choices aimed for those who may or may not join us.

gain the word "purist" thrown around and which is ridiculous because aren't we all purists? Isn't therew a reason why we don't vote for Republicans? It must have something to do with policies which we disapprove of.

The one thing Republicans generally don't do these days is anger the base and while we generally blame the no show voters the GOP is actively hatching up schemes to make voting as difficult and confusing as possible not to mention the misinformation and removing people from the voting rolls.

Sorry for the long post but if there was anything to cause me to permanently leave the party it is this attitude going back to the whole "pony" thing in the early Obama years. This has nothing to do with me personally just expressing my reasons why I think this approach will backfire.

You know there were Republicans who didn't attention much or even why they voted Republican (usually something that is inherited starting but when Bush lead a campaign to go into Iraq where the reasons were obviously phony brought a lot of people over to ourside and never left since then. They didn't have anyone telling them to go fuck themselves for voting for Bush in the first place because they didn't know any better but if we want to look forward and not back think about the future elections as I think they are better ways which include ways of understanding on how they feel which obviously Maher has no interest in doing himself.

On edit : I don't know exactly what he said on his politics before the Bush years that he could have voted either eay as he was more impressed with Republicans before he began favoring the party nominee since the Bush years. This was based on a Colin Powell interview who endorsed Obama over McCain & Romney and probably favored Clinton over Trump. I wanted to make sure to elaborate as he saw the Republicans as a more credible party before the Bush years rather than inadvertently quote Nader.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 12:58 PM

124. Well, yeah, you can blame the voters if you want . .

 

but a decent HRC campaign would have helped a lot.

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #124)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:14 PM

156. Really???

What would have helped a lot is not having to continue to contend with an attention hound all the way to the convention.

There was nothing wrong with Hillary's campaign. Millions more people voted for her than for Trump. But somebody continued to spout about economic injustice as if it were the only kind, and Trump, with the help of the Russians, was able to leverage that into just enough votes in depressed manufacturing communities to steal the presidency.

Continuing the attacks on Hillary, in the guise of "constructive criticism" about her campaign needs to stop. Can you honestly say that Trump ran a better campaign?

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Response to missingthebigdog (Reply #156)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:20 PM

158. The establishment Dems lost everywhere . .

 

not just the presidency.

That should tell you something, but probably won't.

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #158)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:48 PM

162. So if Hillary had campaigned better

The "establishment dems" wouldn't have lost? Tell me more.

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Response to missingthebigdog (Reply #162)

Sat May 6, 2017, 04:04 PM

171. I'll be glad to tell you more . .

 

I was very involved in HRC's Ohio campaign, and Bernie's during the primaries.

My family made thousands of dollars worth of in-kind donations to the HRC campaign.
(We housed two of her field workers for more than two months)

All during the campaign, many of us took every opportunity to advise them
that Trump was really exploiting the trade issue - especially the TPP and NAFTA.
And why are the Dems now coming around on Single Payer, but rejected it during
the campaign when it might have mattered? And in Ohio predatory lending, including
that from scam for-profit so-called universities is a big issue on which the Dems
are silent.

I could go on.

Anything else you want to know?

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #171)

Sat May 6, 2017, 04:19 PM

172. It appears that your issue is not with the HRC campaign,

But with her platform.

You seem to believe that if she had changed her position on NAFTA, TPP, Single Payer, and private universities, she would have gotten more votes in Ohio.

You disagree with her positions, yet you are criticizing the way she campaigned.

The point of the OP is that some people (clearly not you, as it appears you voted for her) decided that her stance on these issues was not pure enough, or not liberal enough, and voted instead for Bernie, or Jill. That "logic," which you are relying on for your argument, got Trump elected.

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #171)

Sat May 6, 2017, 04:48 PM

174. you would have rather she lied?

Tearing up a trade agreement or demonizing the TPP would not improve the situation, in fact, we may pay the price, literally, for the latter. Barriers against protectionism, which helped lower cost of living, are now in vogue again thanks to the rise of nationalism (and its sister protectionism) which will not help consumers. What she should have done better was point out Trump's lies but many on the left agreed with Trump's take on trade.

Insane.

Selling the false idea that tearing up a trade deal would bring back jobs, or the scaremongering about the TPP, harmed even Obama -Why would any voter resentful about the economy, vote for someone who allied herself so closely to a President who defended a trade deal they were told would make their lives a living hell - and which was a lie?

The poor arguments of the far left poisoned the well. These arguments were anti-globalist in nature - how many times do we hear of wicked "globalist bankers", "globalist corporations", "globalist" once a word signifying a belief that global cooperation is necessary to solve global problems, has become a smear. All these arguments served to do was feed Trumpian rhetoric.

We do have a problem with the 1% accumulating assets in excess of GDP, and their risk behavior, and hatred of taxation but what enabled that risk behavior and hoarding of wealth were policies from the right, like Reaganomics , tax cuts, "invisible hand of the market" nonsense and trickle down economics.Yet, the far left was too busy screaming "neo-liberal!" at "establishment" democrats and many on the right were only too happy to join in, probably laughing their asses off while they did it.

Hillary is an incrementalist on Healthcare, she should be. Why is that punished? Wouldn't the smarter thing be to fix the ACA and work on convincing voters who don't want "socialized medicine" that a more robust form of universal healthcare is worth it? Instead, what did we get? Both left and right hated on the ACA, not on the fact that Republicans blocked fixing it - but the ACA itself, the flagship legislation of the Obama Administration, was criticized as trash which in turn reflected poorly on the legacy of Obama, making it all the more difficult for a Democrat to succeed a two-term Democratic President.

No matter how you look at it, the far left and liberal purists enabled Trump into office. They wanted "change", they got it.

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #171)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:29 PM

194. but feingold who is opposed to free trade got less support than hillary

And feingolds opponent openly supported trade .

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #158)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:59 PM

186. Like Russ Feingold? n/t

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Response to BzaDem (Reply #186)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:28 PM

193. feingold got less votes than hillary

And the guy feingold was running against was openly pro free trade pro big business etc type.

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Response to missingthebigdog (Reply #156)

Sun May 7, 2017, 06:25 AM

226. +1

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #124)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:59 PM

164. LOL!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #164)

Sun May 7, 2017, 12:24 PM

228. You folks do understand that you are engaging in . .

 

magical thinking, right?

You shower progressives, most of whom are on your side,
with obscenities and denunciations . .

And you think that the result will be different next time?

Really?

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #228)

Sun May 7, 2017, 01:20 PM

230. It is magical thinking to conclude that progressives who didn't vote HRC are on our side

You are basically saying that these particular "progressives" will continue to vote against their own best interests, and the best interests of the rest of us, unless we are nice to them and turn a blind eye to the damage that has been done.

Threatening to continue to allow the Trumps of the world to be voted in if we don't see things the same way is no way to build a progressive coalition.

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Response to missingthebigdog (Reply #230)

Sun May 7, 2017, 01:59 PM

232. I'm not sure what to make of people who vote (or don't vote) based on...

... how they were treated by anonymous strangers on an internet discussion forum.

You are basically saying that these particular "progressives" will continue to vote against their own best interests, and the best interests of the rest of us, unless we are nice to them and turn a blind eye to the damage that has been done.
Yep... that's exactly right. There are some who are motivated only by vanity and ego. Others who are motivated by seeking revenge, sabotage, and/or being able to say "told-ya-so".

#Sad #HashtagSad


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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #232)

Sun May 7, 2017, 05:12 PM

240. Thank You.

For whatever reason, I don't feel like this gets called out enough. There's still an awful lot of people attempting to take the party hostage.

How do we fix that?

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #228)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:01 PM

233. ROFL

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #233)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:46 PM

236. So it never crosses your mind . .

 

to emphasize issues that appeal to average Americans,
or to organize more effective campaigns?

Based on what I saw of the campaign here in Ohio, and talking
daily to HRC field workers . .

I was shocked at how little they did on turnout.

Very, very different from the Obama campaigns.

(And so if Bernie supporters back him because of single payer, does
that mean HRC supporters were voting against their own interests?)

The Dem Party establishment seems to want to blame everybody
(Russia, Bernie, Jill, Comey, FOX, progressives, etc.) but themselves.

I am not saying I have all the answers by any means, but I am saying
that we need to have a discussion about the future of the party - in
which I have fifty years invested.

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #228)

Sun May 7, 2017, 09:46 PM

242. You don't seem to understand.. the FUs are to the

LIARS like the ratfucker Elites ssarandan and stein and those they brainwashed so bad they're not ever coming back to reality.

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #124)

Mon May 8, 2017, 05:31 PM

254. What would you have done differently?

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:00 PM

126. He went to far last night re Ivanka

It was appalling what that he implied Ivanka is sexually involved with her father.

Great last segment, but I thought Maher went too far.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #126)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:11 PM

132. Yeah, how would anyone get that impression?

?w=640

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #126)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:40 PM

148. "It was appalling what that he implied Ivanka is sexually involved with her father."

I dunno...

tRumputin hitting on that pre-teen during an escalator ride, describing himself as a sexually assaulting "pussy grabber," and talking in the manner he did about his daughter's body is past appalling IMHO.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #126)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:13 PM

189. As Steve Martin once said...

...Comedy is not pretty.

Bill Maher is first and foremost a stand up comedian. His source material, like many other comedians, is based on current events. In fact, if you go back several years and watch some of his routines, they're not really funny anymore because the references are dated.

Besides, with Donald Trump, anything goes.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #189)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:50 PM

197. Sorry

He was talking about the daughter of the President masturbating him. That was degrading to her and to women.

Humor is fine, and the Trumps are dispicable trash, but that crosses the line IMO and hurts our side.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #197)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:22 PM

205. And yet Donald Trump took us there

During an interview, Ivanka was asked what she had in common with her father and she replied, "real estate and golf." When Trump was asked the same question, he said, "I was going to say sex."

So, we'll have to agree to disagree. Among his many horrible attributes, Donald Trump is also a pig and there is no level too low to describe how despicable he is.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #197)

Sun May 7, 2017, 01:24 AM

217. it was Trump himself who talked about how hot his daughter is and dating her

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:05 PM

130. Maher nailed it! It is time for the "purists" to own it then do something about it.

Solidarity wins elections.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:40 PM

147. K&R!! n/t

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 01:53 PM

151. I wish he would invite Susan Sarandon on to tell her this.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 02:14 PM

157. He's right. I call it the "Ralph Nader Syndrome."

The "I am so right on everything and will not vote for anyone who doesn't agree with my positions 100%, and anyone who isn't in agreement with me is 100% wrong, with no degrees of distinguishability. They are all equally bad. Clinton = Gore = Trump = Bush."

It makes no sense.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #157)

Sat May 6, 2017, 03:07 PM

167. Just the other day I was arguing with someone... right HERE... who still believes that.

Oh, I'm sure you've seen them... they always begin nearly every post with a half-hearted disclaimer of "I voted for Hillary, but..." and then they proceed to denigrate Hillary and Democrats and the Democratic Party.

Sometimes the MIRT team spots them... other times not. But eventually they get what's coming to them.

Sadly, there's a lot of celebrity-SYNDROMES around here. Nader isn't the only one with a cult following and perpetual defenders who SWEAR they "voted for Hillary" (but).

I'm sick of the whole lot of them!

Don't they have their "alt" web site or someplace else to hang out?

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 04:47 PM

173. Disagree 100%

 

Put me down as one who completely disagrees with Bill Maher and everyone who supports him on this thread. Smh at how many flaws were in his presentation.

Anyway, though we disagree I'm still on all your sides even if when you completely mischaracterize me and my positions and then tell me to F*#k off.

Republicans control the White House
Republicans control the Senate
Republicans control the House of Representatives
Republicans control the Supreme Court
Republicans control the majority of Federal Judge seats
Republicans control the majority of Governorships
Republicans control the majority of State Senates
Republicans control the majority of State Houses

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 05:51 PM

176. Agree 100%

They sat home and pouted or voted for Quack Stien because Clinton was not pure enough. Those "liberals" disgust me and they can burn in hell.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:26 PM

181. Very few situations in life are black and white binary issues, this is one of them

If you didn't get your ass out to vote for Hillary Clinton on Election Day, not only are you are a fucking moron, but you are the reason Trump is in the White House.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #182)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:04 PM

187. " But really doesn't matter. And here's why. It doesn't matter which party occupies the presidency."

Are you fucking serious? You surely must not be a democrat!

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 06:50 PM

183. Missed the gravity...

Once the gravity of the election if trump won was known. who to vote for was a no brainer. I don't care how someone's vote is spun. Lack of understanding what was at stake was part of why trump won.

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Response to DownriverDem (Reply #183)


Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:07 PM

188. Nice way to unite liberal and centrist dems together...Not

 

did you ever realize it is condescending attitude of centrists like you that alienates the liberals?

go fuck yourself Bill.




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Response to gyroscope (Reply #188)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:14 PM

190. People who didn't vote for Clinton are not liberals.

They are idiots.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #190)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:19 PM

191. Clinton didn't do herself any favors by constantly insulting them

 

and saying she didn't need their vote. that's what I call idiocy.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #191)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:26 PM

192. Where is the link to back up this assertion.

Until it is provided, I believe it to be a lie.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #191)

Sat May 6, 2017, 07:46 PM

196. Clinton didn't insult anyone except for racist right-wingers.

But Bill Maher did, and he was absolutely spot on. The Green Party, the Bernie-or-Bust, and anyone else who didn't vote for Hillary because she wasn't pure enough are the GOP's best friends.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #196)


Response to Post removed (Reply #198)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:06 PM

200. I Voted For Hillary

I am a Sanders Progressive but I voted whole-heartedly for Hillary. She has a great resume, a great record, and was qualified in so many ways to be President.

That said, I think she made a serious mistake by not campaigning more in the Rust Belt, in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio.

Yes, part of the reason Hilary lost was the Russia Hacks, Comey, unrealistic Third Party Candidacies, Media Focus on Trump. That said, the election was close in those States anyway.

The Election could have been won if the Clinton Campaign did not take those States for granted as "safe" Blue States. Michael Moore, a life-long Michiganer, saw this coming and we should have listened closer.

Hilary herself recognized that she was a better Policy Wonk than Campaigner. She and her Campaign Team should have left nothing to chance and put more resources into those States. It was a tactical miscalculation, in my opinion.

I point this out not as sour grapes, but because we need to be honest with ourselves about why we lost. Russia, Comey, Jill Stein were all factors in the loss, but we might have overcome those obstacles if we had put more effort into the Rust Belt in the first place. Just my opinion.

I don't think that we will make the same mistake twice. We need to pay attention to the disgruntled people in the Rust Belt, not exclusively, of course, but as part of an overall strategy for defeating the Republicans, locally, state-wide, and nationally.

So, hopefully next time around, the Democrats will be victorious.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #198)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:07 PM

202. if they didn't vote then they must be basement dwellers and not progressive

or liberal.

black vote was high for clinton. nothing was going to match the obama turnout but it was close and in the primary they came out largely for her.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #198)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:14 PM

204. That's a lie. As the article said, she expressed sympathy for millenials who still live with their

parents because they couldn't find jobs. In fact, that was the first sentence of the article, I don't know how you could have missed it unless your intention was to spread lies.

And also, that wasn't a campaign statement, it was a from an internal email that was hacked by Russian intelligence in order to help Trump win the election. So before you attack Democrats for Russian hacked emails, I suggest you first publish your entire email history on the internet and let a bunch of trolls take it all out of context.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #204)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:36 PM

206. She could have simply said that due to the recession

 

more young people are living with their parents.

there was no need to embellish with the phrase "living in their parents basement" which can certainly be interpreted as an insult. Hillary is not stupid she knows very well the term is commonly used as an insult.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #206)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:21 PM

212. That was in a private email. Which was hacked by Russia.

I'm sure if she knew that Russia was going to hack her and people like you would try to twist her words out of context, then she would have phrased it differently.

Really the most surprising thing about the Russia hacks is how little was there. If hardened Hillary-haters like yourself can only come up with something like this, it paints her in an extremely good light.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #206)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:26 PM

214. Are you fucking serious?

Wtf is it with Clinton and what people want to hear....she was expressing fucking sympathy and expressing a truth. Many of my peers cannot afford property, cannot afford to even rent...yes some are living in their parents' basement. I was not offended because she stressed that more must be done to lift the prospects of young people out there. You're going to tone police the woman over a private conversation after the fact?

To quote maher " are you out of your fucking mind?"

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #188)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:04 AM

218. No Maher has it right.. those who LIED to get

the suckers to vote 3rd party are the ones who own a chunk of trump.

This isn't on Maher.

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Response to gyroscope (Reply #188)

Sun May 7, 2017, 02:25 AM

222. You're actually calling Bill Maher a centrist? Now that's funny.

I know exactly what he'd say about that.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:01 PM

199. Bill is 100% correct.n/t

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 09:06 PM

201. Maher is correct.

Trump is an abomination and there's no excuse for anyone from our side who willingly helped to elect this man by either voting third party or staying home because Hillary was not progressive enough for their delicate palates.

Personally, knowing what a POS Trump is as a person (not even going into his politics), I can't understand people like Susan Sarandon and others who thought that there was little difference between Hillary and Trump. I would have voted for any Democrat over Trump, he's that bad.

To quote Maher, "go f*ck yourselves."

P.S. That's one of the reasons why I barely come to this site anymore. I'm still beyond angry.


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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:03 PM

208. Okay, so in going forward, because that's all we can do, what good is the blame game?

 

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sat May 6, 2017, 10:36 PM

209. Sorry not gonna pile on a rec...

am married to one. We (my kids and I) argue with her about it but we can't exactly disown her over it. FYI, she hates Trump.

I don't know what the situation will be next time but at sometime in the future we will need these voters. That's just a fact.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #210)

Sat May 6, 2017, 11:25 PM

213. Uh huh

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sun May 7, 2017, 01:22 AM

216. Hillary is like the ACA -

Not perfect, but a step in the right direction, a logically sound transition and a million times better than a Dickensian hellscape.

I voted for her not because I'm a fan, but because I like Presidents to have some modicum of governmental experience . . . and well, because I'm not a blithering fucking idiot who would pull a dismissive hilarity such as "Trump is a bumbler who would be neutered by his own party" from a mile-deep hole of idiocy.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Sun May 7, 2017, 01:03 PM

229. Agree with Bill 1,000%

I'm usually lukewarm about him; sometimes angry at him; sometimes, like now, applauding him.

As I told some of the whiney brats after the primaries were over, get over yourselves. BTW, I don't CARE if you have to "hold your nose;" just be sure to vote before you pass out or die from lack of oxygen. I have no time for entitled, immature assholes, then or now.

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Response to NastyRiffraff (Reply #229)

Sun May 7, 2017, 05:37 PM

241. Same here. We need to tell the purist to go away and stay away.

Let them start their own party, they are never here at crunch time anyway. They have done grievous damage to the progressive cause.

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 08:22 AM

246. Greenwald ain't gonna like this...

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:29 PM

253. Maher is making sense here

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Response to RandySF (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 09:50 PM

257. Bill Maher is entirely welcome to go fuck himself with a cactus...

....we need to work towards bringing people together, not perpetuating the divisiveness...

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #257)

Mon May 8, 2017, 11:39 PM

259. Yeah, it's not as funny when you try to repeat someone else's joke that we have been discussing. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #259)

Tue May 9, 2017, 07:59 AM

261. I'm sorry, is that directed at me, or at the part-time liberal Bill Maher...

...

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #261)

Tue May 9, 2017, 08:00 AM

263. Since he said it first and you said it second, you do the math. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #263)

Tue May 9, 2017, 09:51 AM

266. You should write things more clearly so people can understand

No idea what I've done to upset you, but you're more than welcome to join Mr. Maher on his organically grown cucumber.

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #266)

Tue May 9, 2017, 11:23 AM

267. You are the only one who has ever had an issue. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #267)

Tue May 9, 2017, 12:25 PM

268. I highly doubt that! Thank goodness you don't do it professionally!!

Being that vague would be a liability!!

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Response to WoonTars (Reply #257)

Tue May 9, 2017, 05:50 AM

260. Or with the gearshift from a Corvair, since he endorsed Nader over Gore in 2000. n/t



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