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NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
Tue May 9, 2017, 12:44 AM May 2017

I just heard someone on CNN say ...

... with respect to Yates’ refusal to defend Trump’s Muslim Ban, that – paraphrasing here – “When the president decides that a group of people pose a threat to the nation’s security, he should be taken seriously.” In other words, if Trump has decided that Muslims should be banned from entering the country, Yates was obligated to take his word for it and act accordingly.

That raises a myriad of obvious questions that the Republicans don’t seem to have any answers for.

How “seriously” is a president’s word to be taken when that president, along with many of his closest advisors, are under investigation for possibly colluding with an adversarial foreign power in order to undermine our election process?

What weight is to be given to the “word” of a president who has repeatedly lied about everything from the size of his inauguration crowds, to insisting that millions of illegal votes were cast for Hillary Clinton, to accusations that a former president AND our allies allegedly spied on him – all without proof, and often in spite of proof to the contrary?

How much trust is to be placed in a president whose only response to the serious allegations against his administration has been inane Tweets about “fake news”, baseless accusations levelled at anyone who so much as raises questions about his conduct, and has engaged in an endless attempt to shut down all efforts to get at the underlying facts?

How much credence is to be given to any decision made by a president who, by his own admission, signs executive orders drafted by others without reading them himself? How much credence is to be given to a president who backs legislation (e.g. the AHCA bill) apparently without knowing what that proposed legislation contains, or what its impact will be?

How seriously is a president to be taken when that president has demonstrated, over and over again, that he is ignorant of how our government operates, and is reliant on the very people under investigation for direction and advice?

There has not been a single day since Trump’s swearing-in that he and his administration have not been steeped in scandal – from his choice of advisors, to his placing of inexperienced and incompetent people in Cabinet positions, to his reliance on family members who are clearly more interested in enriching the Trump empire than they are promoting the interests of the citizenry.

To say that any president’s determination of who should be barred from entering the country must be taken seriously is to wilfully turn a blind eye to the obvious: Trump is NOT “any president”. The evidence is overwhelming that his decision-making is based on advice from people who are currently under investigation for possible collusion with Russia. The evidence is overwhelming that his own family members are advising him on how to use his office to line his pockets and theirs.

Yet again, this another attempt by Republicans to “normalize” a president who is far from normal. Normal presidents don’t act like Donald Trump. Normal presidents don’t repeatedly dismiss investigations into their administration as “fake news”. Normal presidents don’t accuse their predecessor of criminal activity without a scintilla of proof. Normal presidents don’t incessantly “Tweet” ludicrous nonsense in response to serious questions about their actions.

If you believe – as I do, and as most people with a functioning brain do – that Trump is completely abnormal by virtue of his own conduct, his own (often incoherent) words, his own bizarre statements, then you cannot point to what “a president” should or should not be taken seriously about.

It is bad enough that we, the citizenry, are being admonished by Republicans to accept a lying, self-serving Idiot as our POTUS and C-in-C. It is quite another to be told that he is “normal”, despite all evidence to the contrary, and should be given the same credence that a “normal” president would be given.

Donald Trump is going down. It may take months, it may take longer. That is the nature of investigations into those who wield political power. Just as it was with Nixon/Watergate, corruption at the highest levels of our government is not something that is proven overnight.

In the meantime, we Americans would be wise to take note of the political party that is intent on saying there’s nothing to see here, and still supports a so-called president whose every action, every decision, every statement has been crafted to distract us from the realities of what’s really going on.

I am trying to wrap my head around the idea that a major US political party is far more willing to protect a proven liar than it is willing to protect the nation, and the citizens whose interests they have sworn to serve.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I just heard someone on CNN say ... (Original Post) NanceGreggs May 2017 OP
Right on as usual, my dear Nance! CaliforniaPeggy May 2017 #1
Actually, Yates was not obligated to take his word for it J_William_Ryan May 2017 #2
Well said NanceGreggs ATL Ebony May 2017 #3
Right on! MLAA May 2017 #4
don't believe everything you hear on cnn--after all, it's fake news! orleans May 2017 #5
Taking names and kicking ass. My 2 new heroes are Clapper and Yates. Hekate May 2017 #6
All the Republicans who are supporting Trump instead of holding him accountable, mnhtnbb May 2017 #7
Excellent post malaise May 2017 #8
You are some writer, Nance! raccoon May 2017 #9
On Point Again Nance RockaFowler May 2017 #10
Well, if things uttered by Presidents "should be taken seriously" Mr. Ected May 2017 #11
Growing up in urban NJ The Wizard May 2017 #12
I listened to the oral arguments before the 4th Cir. and this issue was a key part of argument Gothmog May 2017 #13
K&R brer cat May 2017 #14

J_William_Ryan

(1,749 posts)
2. Actually, Yates was not obligated to take his word for it
Tue May 9, 2017, 01:18 AM
May 2017

and enforce Trump’s bigoted EO, as there was no doubt that Trump’s intent was to ban Muslims from coming into the country based solely on an unwarranted, baseless fear of Muslims, in violation of the Constitution, where an AG is instead obligated to refuse to enforce an executive action which is prima facia un-Constitutional:

“This problem of determining a collective body’s motives simply does not arise, however, when a single individual signs an executive order. So long as Donald Trump occupies the White House, his motivations are the only motives that matter — there’s no need for courts to engage in the admittedly quite difficult task of sorting through dozens of lawmakers’ statements to assess their motives.

Nor is it particularly difficult for judges to determine Trump’s motives in this particular case, since the man literally spent the better part of two years bragging about his desire to ban Muslims on the campaign trail.”

https://thinkprogress.org/racist-discredited-argument-trumps-doj-e1bfdbe03c09

It is obvious to any jurist of good faith that Trump’s EO was clearly intended to ban Muslims from coming to the United States for no other reason than being Muslim.

orleans

(34,043 posts)
5. don't believe everything you hear on cnn--after all, it's fake news!
Tue May 9, 2017, 01:37 AM
May 2017

and in case anyone still thinks my comment is serious:

mnhtnbb

(31,377 posts)
7. All the Republicans who are supporting Trump instead of holding him accountable,
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:41 AM
May 2017

demanding his tax returns, doing everything possible to get to the bottom of the Russia connection, are all in violation
of their oaths of office.

It is obvious that these characters do not give a wit about the nation. They are in it for their own power and own self-serving interests.

malaise

(268,844 posts)
8. Excellent post
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:58 AM
May 2017
I am trying to wrap my head around the idea that a major US political party is far more willing to protect a proven liar than it is willing to protect the nation, and the citizens whose interests they have sworn to serve.


THIS - and more than a few hacks in the media

raccoon

(31,106 posts)
9. You are some writer, Nance!
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:15 AM
May 2017
I am trying to wrap my head around the idea that a major US political party is far more willing to protect a proven liar than it is willing to protect the nation, and the citizens whose interests they have sworn to serve.


Because they have shown over and over that they put party before country. They don't even want to have townhalls to listen to what their constituents have to say if the constituents disagree with the GOP official party line.

Mr. Ected

(9,670 posts)
11. Well, if things uttered by Presidents "should be taken seriously"
Tue May 9, 2017, 07:53 AM
May 2017

Then this tidbit from the WaPo is also applicable:

Then-President-elect Trump apparently took a warning from the sitting president of the United States not to hire a specific adviser and dismissed it as partisan politics ...

The Wizard

(12,541 posts)
12. Growing up in urban NJ
Tue May 9, 2017, 08:27 AM
May 2017

we had to know when a bullshit artist was trying to con us. But Trump is far beyond a bullshit artist. He's a menace to civilization and an unrepentant con man with a slew of victims in his wake. That his delusional supporters still support him is a credit to Pox News and hate radio and cause for us to spend more on education.

Gothmog

(145,046 posts)
13. I listened to the oral arguments before the 4th Cir. and this issue was a key part of argument
Tue May 9, 2017, 09:22 AM
May 2017

The issue raised in Nance's OP was a key element in the questions by the judges. One key element is the issue of whether one can ignore trump's past statements. It is always hard to predict how a court will rule after oral arguments and this issue will be addressed in the opinion

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