Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
Tue May 9, 2017, 04:04 PM May 2017

NYT didn't pull any punches: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality

A longform article on how mortgage deductions are a HUGE entitlement program for the wealthiest of Americans. Which I knew in my logical mind already. But this article does a great job putting the narrative pieces of the puzzle together by profiling a bunch of different families on various rungs of the housing and economic ladder. And there is a deep dive into the GI Bill and the history of redlining that entrench inequality along racial lines.

Once your family gets on the escalator of homeownership, it's much easier to move up in the world. I know people who work hard but CANNOT catch a break, moving from eviction to couch surfing to slum housing. We need to stop the huge entitlements paid out to the wealthiest by capping MIDs and divert some of that money toward solving our affordable housing crisis. And yeah, that means I would be voting against my own economic self interest, but this is the right thing for everyone.


An enormous entitlement in the tax code props up home prices — and overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy and the upper middle class.

Almost a decade removed from the foreclosure crisis that began in 2008, the nation is facing one of the worst affordable-housing shortages in generations. The standard of “affordable” housing is that which costs roughly 30 percent or less of a family’s income. Because of rising housing costs and stagnant wages, slightly more than half of all poor renting families in the country spend more than 50 percent of their income on housing costs, and at least one in four spends more than 70 percent. Yet America’s national housing policy gives affluent homeowners large benefits; middle-class homeowners, smaller benefits; and most renters, who are disproportionately poor, nothing. It is difficult to think of another social policy that more successfully multiplies America’s inequality in such a sweeping fashion.

snip....

The owner-renter divide is as salient as any other in this nation, and this divide is a historical result of statecraft designed to protect and promote inequality. Ours was not always a nation of homeowners; the New Deal fashioned it so, particularly through the G.I. Bill of Rights. The G.I. Bill was enormous, consuming 15 percent of the federal budget in 1948, and remains unmatched by any other single social policy in the scope and depth of its provisions, which included things like college tuition benefits and small-business loans. The G.I. Bill brought a rollout of veterans’ mortgages, padded with modest interest rates and down payments waived for loans up to 30 years. Returning soldiers lined up and bought new homes by the millions. In the years immediately following World War II, veterans’ mortgages accounted for over 40 percent of all home loans.

But both in its design and its application, the G.I. Bill excluded a large number of citizens. To get the New Deal through Congress, Franklin Roosevelt needed to appease the Southern arm of the Democratic Party. So he acquiesced when Congress blocked many nonwhites, particularly African-Americans, from accessing his newly created ladders of opportunity. Farm work, housekeeping and other jobs disproportionately staffed by African-Americans were omitted from programs like Social Security and unemployment insurance. Local Veterans Affairs centers and other entities loyal to Jim Crow did their parts as well, systematically denying nonwhite veterans access to the G.I. Bill. If those veterans got past the V.A., they still had to contend with the banks, which denied loan applications in nonwhite neighborhoods because the Federal Housing Administration refused to insure mortgages there. From 1934 to 1968, the official F.H.A. policy of redlining made homeownership virtually impossible in black communities. “The consequences proved profound,” writes the historian Ira Katznelson in his perfectly titled book, “When Affirmative Action Was White.” “By 1984, when G.I. Bill mortgages had mainly matured, the median white household had a net worth of $39,135; the comparable figure for black households was only $3,397, or just 9 percent of white holdings. Most of this difference was accounted for by the absence of homeownership.”

snip...

And yet we continue to give the most help to those who least need it — affluent homeowners — while providing nothing to most rent-burdened tenants. If this is our design, our social contract, then we should at least own up to it; we should at least stand up and profess, “Yes, this is the kind of nation we want.” Before us, there are two honest choices: We can endorse this inequality-maximizing arrangement, or we can reject it. What we cannot do is look a mother like Diaz in the face and say, “We’d love to help you, but we just can’t afford to.” Because that is, quite simply, a lie.

Link

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
NYT didn't pull any punches: How Homeownership Became the Engine of American Inequality (Original Post) wildeyed May 2017 OP
It's a very divisive topic- owners want their tax breaks. bettyellen May 2017 #1
We don't want to look at where they come from, that's for sure. wildeyed May 2017 #3
Kills me when I hear local pols say renters dont pay taxes- the taxes come from our damned rent. bettyellen May 2017 #6
Working the polls for a Dem candidate, I overheard one of my fricking neighbors wildeyed May 2017 #9
oh wow, that is rough. as a woman, i have had bosses explain to me over and over agin why they paid bettyellen May 2017 #10
GOOD article ismnotwasm May 2017 #2
Reminds me of this post. muntrv May 2017 #4
I am not really understanding this. frankieallen May 2017 #5
80% of the tax relief goes to people making six figures or more. housing prices are propped up bettyellen May 2017 #7
families making six figures are far far from the "wealthiest Americans", two completely different frankieallen May 2017 #18
Wealthier/ wealthiest... If you have to make six figures to benefit, it's not for "working families" bettyellen May 2017 #23
30 year mortgages are front end loaded, meaning the MID helps with making those first years frankieallen May 2017 #24
I am saying that mythical family you mention doesnt deserve 80% more than the working class who make bettyellen May 2017 #27
I don't benifit from it, my home is paid for, I spent 22 years making payments and it was frankieallen May 2017 #29
you DID benefit, and it helped you get a leg up. A leg up offered to very few earners under 100K bettyellen May 2017 #30
I didn't make anything near 100K when i bought my home, or for the first 15 years frankieallen May 2017 #32
you never read the article, and celebrating when so many others were excluded from assistance- ugly bettyellen May 2017 #34
Ha, ok, I'm celebrating. Your just baiting me. frankieallen May 2017 #36
ahh, it;s fake news because you don;t like admitting it benefits the upperclasss. bettyellen May 2017 #37
I'm not understanding your not understanding dumbcat May 2017 #8
the bigger the mortgage, the bigger the tax break- 80% of this tax relief goes to people bettyellen May 2017 #11
I agree dumbcat May 2017 #13
oh sorry- I misunderstood you! Thanks. bettyellen May 2017 #14
An elimination of the mortgage interest deduction would simply lead to lower home prices taught_me_patience May 2017 #12
And it encourages people to purchase the largest, most expensive home they can afford. wildeyed May 2017 #15
30K of mortgage interest in a year? what do you live in a castle? frankieallen May 2017 #22
"The wealthiest of Americans do not pay mortgage interest, or very little. " NCTraveler May 2017 #17
Fine, cap it then. frankieallen May 2017 #20
One of the things discussed in the article. NCTraveler May 2017 #26
The article suggests capping the deduction, not getting rid of it altogether. wildeyed May 2017 #19
And i totally agree with capping it. frankieallen May 2017 #21
Sorry I mis-typed slightly. wildeyed May 2017 #28
In metropolitan areas, 600k is not much for a home, radius777 May 2017 #31
I'm a homeowner and business owner. wildeyed May 2017 #33
the deductions help to offset many of the costs and fees radius777 May 2017 #38
Agree completely, as do most actual Dem voters, radius777 May 2017 #35
"We need to stop the huge entitlements paid out to the wealthiest" NCTraveler May 2017 #16
And that's one of the reasons why California has Renter's Credit. haele May 2017 #25

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
3. We don't want to look at where they come from, that's for sure.
Tue May 9, 2017, 04:15 PM
May 2017

Ouch. I knew all of this already, and my face is flushed with shame.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
6. Kills me when I hear local pols say renters dont pay taxes- the taxes come from our damned rent.
Tue May 9, 2017, 04:30 PM
May 2017

and the reason I never bought a house? One third of my career I did not have adequate healthcare insurance. Didn't want to lose what I could barely afford.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
9. Working the polls for a Dem candidate, I overheard one of my fricking neighbors
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:06 PM
May 2017

say that only people who own property should be allowed to vote since they are the only ones who have skin in the game. Out loud. Where people could hear him Me and the only other Dem started inching away from him after that. What a crazy ass. His candidate (Robert Pittenger, who else) showed up later and I trash talked him pretty good about how all the Republican women I knew were voting for the female Dem

Good times, good times....

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
10. oh wow, that is rough. as a woman, i have had bosses explain to me over and over agin why they paid
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:17 PM
May 2017

men more- guys "gotta pay the bills"... literally one said that of course all my meals and entertainment was paid for by men! The New Deal was great in theory, but in practice many of us were shut out. We have to confront the truth that many wanted it to do just that. We're still seeing this today. That DT's people would even feel safe quoting the court allowing those pools t be closed instead of segregated is horrendous. But it's all out in the open now, I guess.

ismnotwasm

(41,976 posts)
2. GOOD article
Tue May 9, 2017, 04:13 PM
May 2017
Racial exclusion was Roosevelt’s first concession to pass the New Deal; his second, to avoid a tax revolt, was to rely on regressive and largely hidden payroll taxes to fund generous social-welfare programs. A result, the historian Michelmore observes, is that we “never asked ordinary taxpayers to pay for the economic security many soon came to expect as a matter of right.” In providing millions of middle-class families stealth benefits, the American government rendered itself invisible to those families, who soon came to see their success as wholly self-made. We forgot because we were not meant to remember.
 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
5. I am not really understanding this.
Tue May 9, 2017, 04:29 PM
May 2017

Last edited Tue May 9, 2017, 05:48 PM - Edit history (1)

"mortgage deductions are a HUGE entitlement program for the wealthiest of Americans"

Without the MID, many young families that are living week to week and just getting by could not afford to purchase a home without the deduction. 30 year mortgages are so front end loaded with interest that the deduction allows for affordability of first homes, I know it was the case for me.

The solution is to help poorer families realize home ownership, not make the cost more prohibitive.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
7. 80% of the tax relief goes to people making six figures or more. housing prices are propped up
Tue May 9, 2017, 04:47 PM
May 2017

putting them out of reach for the working lower class in urban areas. Did you read the article? It explains it pretty well.

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
18. families making six figures are far far from the "wealthiest Americans", two completely different
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:37 PM
May 2017

things. I have not problem with capping the deduction, none at all, but I would not want to see it go away.
What proof is there that by eliminating the MID, home prices would suddenly drop and become within the reach of the working lower class in urban areas??
I call bullshit on that "theory"
Just like when we have a sales tax holiday in Mass, and prices suddenly rise by %6 for that weekend. ( I tried to buy a new couch last time we had a tax holiday, the "always available" %10 discount became %5 for the weekend)
We are talking about a tax deduction here to make mortgages more affordable to working families, the fact that rents are going up, and there is no assistance available for low income to pay these rents is not the fault of MID. You could as easily blame the government for building another air craft carrier we don't need, or providing taxpayer provided
cadillac health insurance FOR LIFE to elected officials while the rest of us pound sand.

Cap it, by all means, but do not eliminate it.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
23. Wealthier/ wealthiest... If you have to make six figures to benefit, it's not for "working families"
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:44 PM
May 2017

It helped cause the big divide in wealth in this country by shutting out so many. Unless the benefit programs are reshaped so that 80% of the tax money is going to people who already have economic stability, I have amoral problem with it.

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
24. 30 year mortgages are front end loaded, meaning the MID helps with making those first years
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:54 PM
May 2017

of mortgage payments more affordable for working families. How the hell is this all of a sudden some kind of windfall for the wealthiest people in the country??

Cap it then, I am totally on board with that.

So you are saying a husband and wife a few years out of college, with 2 young children, who both have $60,000 a year jobs are somehow not a "working family" ?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
27. I am saying that mythical family you mention doesnt deserve 80% more than the working class who make
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:03 PM
May 2017

less money. You seem to be leaving out the vast majority of American workers to favor the well off. I'm guessing it because you benefit from it.

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
29. I don't benifit from it, my home is paid for, I spent 22 years making payments and it was
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:16 PM
May 2017

not easy in the beginning, when i was paying all the interest and very little principle, the MID was critical to my wife and I purchasing a home.
The hardest part of home ownership is the initial purchase, and coming up with the payments.
You are throwing around the %80 percent like it means something to what i'm talking about.

Care to explain, in detail, what you mean by my example get's %80 of more something? I seriously doubt you can.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
30. you DID benefit, and it helped you get a leg up. A leg up offered to very few earners under 100K
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:34 PM
May 2017

because 80% of thos tax breaks go to people earning over 100K. The working poor is not "given the boost" that you got.
Did you read the article?

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
32. I didn't make anything near 100K when i bought my home, or for the first 15 years
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:53 PM
May 2017

I owned it. by the time I hit that kind of income I was getting no benefit from MID, as the bulk of the interest was already paid on my mortgage.

So I guess I was the working poor, you should be happy i got a tax break.
Thanks!

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
36. Ha, ok, I'm celebrating. Your just baiting me.
Tue May 9, 2017, 07:08 PM
May 2017

The difference here, with this pointless conversation, is I am sharing from personal experience, you are just quoting from an article you read. It's quite clear you can read and parrot someone else's thoughts.
I read the article, unlike some people, I don't take everything i read as gospel because i have nothing to compare it to.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
8. I'm not understanding your not understanding
Tue May 9, 2017, 04:59 PM
May 2017
The wealthiest of Americans do not pay mortgage interest, or very little.


Where do you get this? You don't think wealthy people finance their multi-million dollar homes with a mortgage? What is your basis for that belief?
 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
11. the bigger the mortgage, the bigger the tax break- 80% of this tax relief goes to people
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:21 PM
May 2017

making over 100,000. a year- so its doing jack shit for the poor- except raising the cost of all housing. You didn't read the article? Wealthy is relative, but they tend to itemize and benfit more from this.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
12. An elimination of the mortgage interest deduction would simply lead to lower home prices
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:23 PM
May 2017

so that the "effective" payment is the same.

Mortgage interest deduction disproportionately benefits the rich. My wife and I write off $30k in mortgage interest... a huge tax break for us.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
15. And it encourages people to purchase the largest, most expensive home they can afford.
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:29 PM
May 2017

Why not if it appreciates madly and is a write-off? We should let people write off investments in affordable rental units instead. It would encourage people to purchase smaller homes while growing the rental home market. But of course someone would figure out how to game that system too. Sigh.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
17. "The wealthiest of Americans do not pay mortgage interest, or very little. "
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:34 PM
May 2017

That is highly inaccurate.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
19. The article suggests capping the deduction, not getting rid of it altogether.
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:38 PM
May 2017

I thought that was obvious in the article.

Capping the MID at $500,000 would have virtually no effect on homeownership rates. And according to the economist Glaeser, it would have only “modest effects on home prices” in supply-constrained cities like San Francisco and virtually no effect in cities with plenty of available land, like Houston. “Most homeowners wouldn’t even feel it,” Glaeser says, pointing out further that encouraging homeownership typically means moving people from multifamily buildings to single-family homes, which increases traffic congestion and pollution. But capping the MID at half a million dollars could cause properties in the $625,000 to $1.25 million range to drop in value.

Would we be O.K. with that? Would we support reform that provided desperately needed housing relief to millions of low-income Americans if it meant that the net worth of those who owned expensive homes took a hit? The answer is almost certainly no, at least for owners of houses valued north of $500,000. Wealth granted by a bizarre government subsidy is still wealth, and once people have it, they’d prefer to keep it. When it comes to public housing for the rich, it becomes hard to break the cycle of welfare dependency. It’s why some Democratic leaders who represent districts with high housing prices, like Representative Nancy Pelosi (San Francisco) and Senator Chuck Schumer (New York), have been outspoken critics of MID reform, even if they are consistent backers of other equality-promoting initiatives.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
28. Sorry I mis-typed slightly.
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:08 PM
May 2017

It's a long, complicated article and I was going fast. I thought it was obvious FROM THE ARTICLE that capping or some sort of alternative tax credit that gave more benefits to low and medium income owners was preferable. The entire gist of the article is that rich people buy extravagant houses and the federal government underwrites that while ignoring the GLARING need at the bottom of the ladder. I was expressing support for that idea.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
31. In metropolitan areas, 600k is not much for a home,
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:48 PM
May 2017

even in middle and working class neighborhoods, so Schumer and Pelosi are correct that eliminating such tax breaks would hurt many regular (including immigrant and PoC) families struggling to make it.

Democrats will never win by moving socialist/far left on these issues, because many actual Democrats are home owners, business owners, etc who also don't want too many taxes/regs/govt - it's why center-left Clinton/Obama style Dems are the best type, as they seek to strike a balance that works for the the middle class.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
33. I'm a homeowner and business owner.
Tue May 9, 2017, 06:54 PM
May 2017

I would like the government to stop subsidizing extravagant homes while half our population is close to homeless. There are only a few metropolitan areas where costs are over 600k, San Fran and NYC.

There is nothing 'socialist' about this. Did you read the article? The subsidies are the antithesis of free market.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
38. the deductions help to offset many of the costs and fees
Tue May 9, 2017, 07:09 PM
May 2017

homeowners have, such as mortgage interest, property taxes, school taxes, water, heating, etc - which themselves can be exorbitant in metro/surrounding areas, the voting base of the modern Dem party.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
35. Agree completely, as do most actual Dem voters,
Tue May 9, 2017, 07:01 PM
May 2017

who are much more center-left/Clinton/Obama style Dems than far-left.

The Dem party in America (unlike socialist parties in Europe) has always been about helping families achieve the middle-class American dream, i.e. the 'house with the white picket fence', or modern day equivalents (including condo/apt ownership), iow, home/business/capital ownership, which has all types of positive effects on stabilizing and growing communities.

And as anyone who has ever lived in an around metro areas (the vote-getting base of the modern Dem party, which includes all types of neighborhoods, from working/middle class neighborhoods, to immigrant enclaves, to the trendier areas to the near suburbs) home ownership is expensive, and families rely upon tax breaks to survive. 500k-1m is not that much for a home, especially multi-family homes that are common in many working class neighborhoods.

haele

(12,649 posts)
25. And that's one of the reasons why California has Renter's Credit.
Tue May 9, 2017, 05:55 PM
May 2017

True, you're stuck during the year paying your taxes, but most renters in the lower to middle incomes will typically get all their income tax back at the end of the year for being renters.
Helps a little, at least.

I've rented for most of my life. I expect the rent I paid was equivalent to a mortgage; sometimes, it seems as if it was even higher than a mortgage would be for the place I was living in. I certainly wouldn't be able to save to buy a house while I was renting; we were living in an ever-narrowing paycheck to paycheck spiral, and it took a windfall for us to be able to purchase the double-wide we live in with the lot rental that is 1/2 the average rent of a 1 bedroom apartment.

Haele

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»NYT didn't pull any punch...