Tell Me Again Why Higgs Boson is Earth Shattering?

[Iggy]

wondering if this should be in the pseudo science thread?

this "particle" which BTW, the announcement was that a "Higgs-like" particle was discovered, not the "actual"
Higgs particle.. this particle is observable for one-billionth of a second.

????

Interesting take:

GIVE it a few decades and scientists will admit that Higgs Boson is not fundamental after all. Eventually they will realize that Higgs-Boson doesn’t give matter it’s mass. Mass is the effect of motion. Densification is an effect not a cause. Therefore this is not a God particle. The Higgs-Boson particle is just another effect of motion. It is not the cause of anything any more than any other particle is. Quantum physics is a theory that seems correct because it predicts effects. But it is wrong because it treats effects (particles) as causes.

Only pre-physical motion is fundamental. What ancient cultures called forces or urges in motion are the cause of all matter.
Since Democritus misunderstanding of the Ancient Egyption concept of Atum, western thinkers and scientist have been stuck on the notion of particles.

Quantum physics is nothing but an contemporary form of ancient Greek atomism. As such it provides the a psuedo-scientific underpinning to a political structure based on materialism. It is widely used to give scientific cover to the agenda of materialism. Materialism and Quantum physics are two sides of the same socio/scientific coin. The scientist have to say they have found the God particle to justify the role they are paid to play, in the system of scientific materialism. All they have found is something a bit smaller than what was known about before. Woohoo !

http://gigaom.com/2012/07/04/what-the-web-is-saying-about-the-god-particle/

[hobbit709]

1. ?????

[MattBaggins]

2. Derp duh Derp?

The LHC and particle physics is just a grand scheme for some boogey man known as Materialism?

Walk away real slow like.

[Marrah_G]

3. Because it is actual science?

Because most important things aren't solved in an hour?

I'm not sure what has happened in this country that has made people turn away from science, research and exploration.

It's sad.

[Iggy]

6. "Sorry", Criticism isn't Science

you've not explained why Higgs-Boson, which the scientists involved admitted they did not discover--
explain why it's earth shattering-- worthy of the attention its getting.

I'm waiting...

and I guess replication doesn't apply here-- since I doubt anyone is going to pony up $100 Billion to
build a second LHC.

[hobbit709]

10. First you will have to learn a higher order of mathematics than counting on your fingers

Then you will need to get an idea of both subatomic and astrophysics.

Or do you believe in the Phlogiston Theory?

[kestrel91316]

42. [phone] for the reference to Phlogiston Theory.

[Iggy]

58. One More Time...

Criticism isn't science.

The problem is, you have nothing.

The discovery of a "Higgs-like" particle is not the same as discovering THE particle, and frankly sounds
suspicious. remember, this is science, where ostensibly certain fundamental rules apply; things like
replication and so forth.

To make a BIG, dramatic deal out of "maybe" discovering something is again-- suspicious.

I've thoughs as to why this is.. but will save them for now.

[hobbit709]

59. And the woo you cite is science?

[Kablooie]

68. It's 'higgs-like' because of the 5 sigma rule.

You can't officially state you've discovered something new until it has been independently verified 5 times which lowers the odds of error to an an accepted level.

So far they only have 3 verifications so they will need more to confidently declare that they have found it.

[Marrah_G]

17. It's the what keeps matter solid, what made our universe possible

They now know it is there from the impact it had on it's surroundings. We don't know yet what advances this will have for humanity. This is what science and research is all about. Discovery, curiosity, experiments.. these are all very important things.

There already is more then one.

[sharp_stick]

20. They had two groups with two separate

detectors find the same thing. The chances of this happening by coincidence is something like 3 in 10 million.

Of course they didn't say they found "it", they're still looking at the data. Unlike a bunch of metaphysical bullshit, they can't claim it's some form of ancient whatever.

[Democracyinkind]

4. This must be the stupidest, most uneducated, most anti-intellectual...

thing that I have read on DU ever since the establishment of "creative speculation" (I stopped reading CT stuff on DU then).

There's so many things wrong with this, I don't even know where to start.

"Mass comes from motion"

BWAHAHAHAHA! WTF???? WTF````??????

And yeah, no one except pseudo intellectual people in the publishing business conceive of the Higgs Boson as "the god particle". It is a pun, nothing more. Learn to google.

And in future, keep this woo off Du. It's much more worthy of freeperland or above top secret...

You know.. What with the whole "materialist conspiracy in traditional science".. OMG.. The degree to which uneducated people think of themselves as superior to people who actually spent some time researching a topic never fails to astound me. I used to think of it as a purely american phenomenon, but I'm glad to report that it isn't. There's been quite allot of this anti-intellectualism going round as a reaction to yesterday's announcement.

[RKP5637]

27. +1, n/t

[Coexist]

39. +1

[COLGATE4]

45. +1000 K&R

This post is worth of FR, not DU

[redqueen]

5. WTF...

Find an actual scientist who understands what they're talking about. This is nonsense.

[RKP5637]

28. +1, n/t

[trumad]

7. Tell Me Again Why Climate Warming is Earth Shattering?

Hey---might as well.......

[bowens43]

8. talk about mindless drivel....

[DocMac]

9. If Steven Hawkings was impressed, so am I.

Besides, it's hard to impress the world with something they can't see or understand.

[Lawlbringer]

11. There's only one of him

Stephen Hawking, singular.




If the world had Hawkings to spare, we'd be in a much better place.

[DocMac]

15. lol. It wasn't even a typo.

For some reason I was thinking his last name was Hawkings. I must have CRS.

Can't Remember Shit

[Marrah_G]

18. SO true

[KatyMan]

12. This new learning amazes me...

King Arthur: This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes...

[myrna minx]

14. LOL - next we'll be building bridges out of witches.

[4lbs]

13. Several things

1.) The "God" Particle is a misnomer. It was originally called "That goddamn particle" in a newspaper article, but the editor didn't like using that word, so it was truncated to "God".

2.) The Higgs Boson gives atoms and everything in the universe it's mass because of the interaction with the Higgs field.

3.) If the Higgs Boson was found to not exist, then the entire Standard Model of Physics, which includes things such as oh... galaxies, black holes, gravity, electromagnetism, and classical mechanics, would have to be rewritten. To a lesser extent it also would affect chemistry and chemical reactions and how they are dealth with because those depend on subatomic particles such as neutrons, electrons, and protons, which are explained by the Standard Model.

4.) Because Higgs Boson exists, as the evidence right now shows, then it further cements the Standard Model as being correct, compared to other theories and models that have been postulated. Therefore, future research time and dollars can be focused in this direction, instead of the others.

[thucythucy]

25. Thank you for this post.

In four neat paragraphs (some of them one sentence long!) you've offered a cogent, clearly understandable explanation of the importance of this discovery.

Best wishes, and keep posting!

[FarCenter]

30. What 4lbs said, plus it may or may not open the door to supersymmetry models.

If the Higgs boson turns out to have the properties as predicted by Higgs and other theorists, then it completes the Standard Model and creates difficulties for the various Supersymmetry Models.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersymmetry

How the Discovery of the Higgs Boson Could Break Physics

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/07/higgs-boson-breaks-physics/

[mmonk]

60. No future much for supersymmetry or more determination

for it due to still seeking the stop squark?

[redqueen]

31. Pity this isn't the OP, and the nonsense hidden in the comments. nt

[MineralMan]

16. Well, that is a singularly uninformed excerpt you posted.

Materialism? Really. Unscientific nonsense cannot argue with science. Sorry.

[MNBrewer]

19. Riiiiight. The ancient Egyptians got it right, not the modern scientists....

[Marrah_G]

21. and the writer could not spell Egyptian or Atom

Last edited Thu Jul 5, 2012, 10:50 AM - Edit history (1)

I am beginning to think the OP is just an ignorant fundy who also believes Jesus had a pet T-Rex.

[hifiguy]

33. Actually there was an Egyptian god called "Atum"

IIRC.

[Marrah_G]

36. I did not know that.

[hifiguy]

37. There would be no logical reason for anyone to know that

unless they were a full-out Ancient Egypt geek like me. It was one of my teenage Asperger's obsessions.

[Marrah_G]

48. Well......

I'm actually pretty well schooled in Gods and Goddesses from around the world. That one I didn't know at all. Now I have to go look them up. I love learning so thank you for giving me something to research.

[MNBrewer]

62. I thought it was Aton.

Hmm.

[Ohio Joe]

22. Yay! Right wing anti-science bullshit

[99Forever]

23. Wow.

The uninformed drivel some people will post.

Amazing.

[ananda]

24. This discovery has multi-layered dimensions.

Here is an article called "A Closer Look at the Higgs Boson" -- http://apnews.excite.com/article/20120704/D9VQ7AL82.html


Of course, there is more to life than practicality for some people. Somehow there is a way that math and science move into pure poetry and at some point pure source. Calling it the "God particle" provides a kind of mystical dimension to the mystery and the search for ultimate answers to our existence and that of the universe and the way it works. But of course that doesn't help the people living in cars worrying about police harassment, or those wondering how long they'll see a paycheck or whether they can even get healthcare, much less "proton therapy." And of course the mental dimensions of studies like these seem like another world entirely from our little legislative and schoolboard fights over science texts, what and how to teach, even to the point of wanting to ban the teaching of critical thinking skills. Our smallminded, materialistic, oversimplified religious fearmongering really look so petty in comparison to high mental and scientific achievements. But there are many many billions of dollars enough sunk in the kind of pettiness that can and do destroy worlds; so it's nice now and then to see achievements that soar above it all if only for a little while.

[Ian David]

26. Teh Stoopid is strong in that one. n/t

[Xyzse]

29. That is an interesting take

So, this is positing that rather than considering weight as a function of a particle, it is instead a functional effect of motion.

However, I am not sure if that take makes sense when trying to explain Higgs Boson.

From what I've been trying to figure in regards to this is that what they found is not actually a particle but a force.

We can both agree that motion is a "force" right?

If that is the case, what they found is the basics of a "force" which then translates to weight.
Stating that the Higgs Boson is a particle can be misleading since they explain that things are made up of Fermions and Bosons. Fermions are matter while Bosons are forces, where a force can be considered a particle.

As such, if they have found something that provides proof of such a boson, then that is what the original post means as motion. Which then kinda turns around the OP position, since the Higgs Boson is pretty much a force or a measure of motion.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

32. You and George W Bush....feelin' stuff in your gut

Impressive.

[FarCenter]

34. The blog comment you've posted goes on to say that the physical world is the product of conciousness

Which is a metaphysical position that some philosophers and theologians have taken.

Based on advances in neurophilosophy, neurological science, information theory and computer science, it is becoming much more plausible that conciousness is the product of electrochemical information processing in the brain.

[1-Old-Man]

35. I now know what it means to be "flabbergasted"

[yellowcanine]

38. Give it up. Just the notion of something named "Higgs Bosun" is cool. Don't poop on the party.

Anyhow, it is a nice break from "The mandate IS a tax!" "No it isn't!" in my book.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Science is NOT speculation

this is what makes your table feel solid, for example... which is not...

And yes, that is a mind bender of a concept in modern physics. Most of YOU is empty space... the world is MOSTLY empty space. The Bosson matters, it is what makes YOU feel solid, or your table.

I guess we should also put into creative speculation that there is gravity, or for that matter that the earth is round.

[RC]

56. Actually the earth is not round

It is pear shaped. All that land mass in the upper hemisphere.
[hr width="400"]
So does mean dirt and rocks are lighter than water, since they are floating to the top?

[kestrel91316]

41. Ummmm, you probably don't want to accuse the world's preeminent

atomic and quantum physicists of pseudoscience.

Where and when did YOU get your PhD in quantum physics? And what was your thesis topic? And where are you employed now?

"My mother's basement" is not an acceptable answer to any of the above, BTW.

[snooper2]

43. Go do some research on what happened within the first second of the big bang

And maybe it will expand your understand of time and space just a little...

[Swede]

44. Crack a book.

nt

[etherealtruth]

46. If physics is pseudo science ....

.... oh, this is hopeless.

Take a couple physics courses at a local university ... or a community college. You still won't fully understand (I don't claim to have a full understanding) ....but, you won't post anything as willfully ignorant as this

[Bake]

47. I'm thrilled that they may have found the key to the universe.

Meanwhile, I'm still looking for a job and the rent comes due in two weeks.

Nobody's too worried about that.

Bake

[CanSocDem]

49. Goodness...!!!!

The fundamentalists are in a tizzy today. Absolutely full of righteous indignation and contempt for a different point of view.

"As such it provides the a psuedo-scientific underpinning to a political structure based on materialism."

Who are these people who think "materialism" serves the public interest?

.

[FarCenter]

51. "Idealism" works well in the rectory or university study; "materialism" works better elsewhere

Quotes because they identify schools of metaphysics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idealism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism

[Odin2005]

65. No use arguing with that poster.

She believes in "The Secret" crap.

[Marr]

50. LOL-- I love it when mystical nitwits try to claim science just hasn't "caught up" to them.

[ryan_cats]

52. Maybe they're looking for an even more fundamental and hard to detect particle.

Maybe they're looking for an even more fundamental and hard to detect particle.

Funding!

BTW, whoever wrote what you're quoting sounds like Joseph Newman's explanation for everything based on the gyroscopic particle he says he discovered. I'm serious, he's a big time whackjob who thinks he's found free energy with his energy machines. He keeps having demonstrations and burning through tons of cash but I've yet to see him connect the output to the input and let it self power itself.

Sorry for the thread hijack but it reminded me of him. He's an interesting read.

[WilliamPitt]

53. ...

[no_hypocrisy]

54. The silence from the rightwingnuts is deafening.

Not since Darwin has a scientific theory threatened their version of how the earth was created. It totally destroys the other part of Genesis that Darwin didn't go into.

C'mon! Crickets from Romney, Bachmann, Pat Robertson, etc.

[Posteritatis]

55. I suppose a few "I don't understand this therefore it's wrong" posts were inevitable.. (nt)

[derby378]

57. Motion can INCREASE mass, but not CREATE it

Anything that tells us we've either discovered the Higgs boson or something really close a big effin' deal.

No Higgs boson, no Higgs field. No Higgs field, no particles with mass. No particles with mass, no stars, no planets, no galaxies, no us. The entire universe would be a gigantic ghost.

That help any?

[DirkGently]

63. Sure. How can an invisible field that surrounds & affects everything

... be important?

I think this person's off base trying to undercut particle physics on the basis they don't like materialism. Even if you want to conceptualize what's being examined as something other than particles, the physics implications have meaning.

[Odin2005]

64. What a bunch of anti-science gobbly-gok.

Whenever some idiot starts ranting about the "evils" of "scientific materialism" I feel the urge to knock the shit out of them.

[Kablooie]

66. It's not earth shattering.

It's earth enabling.
If there were no higgs to give mass to earth's particle they would not have glommed together to create the earth.

So there.

[Tsiyu]

67. It was no big deal when they figured out how to split the atom either, y'know?

Nothing "earth-shattering" about that scientific silliness either

....oh...wait.

Thanks for the lols

[Avalux]

69. Wow. Ridiculous nonsense, meant to discredit a major scientific breakthrough.

I could write a long post explaining what a "boson" is, how its apparent discovery confirms the Standard Model of particle physics, how it explains the Higgs mechanism, and how 'seeing' this boson in TWO separate, independent experiments, each with at least a 5 sigma signal, verifies its probable existence.

But somehow, I'm not sure you'd find the information useful.