Simple question: Is this crisis worse than Watergate?

[kentuck]

As a former VVAW, I followed Watergate and the events of those times very closely. In my opinion, the present crisis is worse than Watergate, primarily because it is a much more dire threat to our country and our democracy.

[Demsrule86]

1. Yes we had the Congress back then.

[L. Coyote]

55. TTBOOK, Nixon did not conspire with an adversary to steal the Executive branch!

Does thast answer your question?

[Demsrule86]

57. Nixon had all sorts of things he wanted to do ...we dodge a bullet...but nothing he actually

did is worse than Trump who is a danger our Republic...we need to stop him, but elections have consequences... 2016 was a bad year for some to sit on their hands and not vote. We will be paying for this for decades assuming we even have a republic when this is over.

[2naSalit]

2. Exponentially so....nt

[Cosmocat]

8. This

always has been ...

[lapfog_1]

3. Yes, Nixon was a paranoid crook.

Trump is a narcissistic paranoid vindictive authoritarian traitor.

[Johnny2X2X]

4. Way worse

Watergate wasn't even in the same ballpark as this is. We're talking about a foreign adversary stealing the Presidency and the possibility we have a Russian Puppet in the White House. And the murders have been ongoing for months to cover this up. Watergate was maybe 3% as serious as this is.

The American way of life is under extreme threat.

[Cosmocat]

9. YEP

nm

[frogmarch]

23. Yes! nt

[Kittycow]

29. Agreed. I was 18 then and it's still in accessible memory banks.

[Wounded Bear]

5. I think it is...

back then, we had things like moderate Repubs and some modicum of bipartisanship. Now, the Repubs are going "winner take all" on our government and society.

I don't remember following it that closely back in the day. I too was in uniform, though not in 'Nam. It was harder back then to follow these things.

Trump is a real and present danger.

[redwitch]

6. Most definitely!

Democracy is in serious trouble now.

[Orrex]

7. But not nearly as bad as a blowjob in the Oval Office.

[2naSalit]

14. Or the proverbial...

hanging chad of determining what the meaning of "is" is.

fasten yer seatbelts, kids, it's Mr. Toad's wild ride like never before. And stock upon whatever you can, it could be a thin on food summer for a lot of us.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

10. Absolutely.

The Watergate break-in really was more or less a third rate burglary. It was the cover-up that brought down Nixon.

Here, what was actually done (Michael Flynn's contact with the Russians and various other things) is the actual crime. They are trying to cover it up, but not being at all successful, unlike the Nixon White House was able to do for some months back then.

I lived in the DC area at the time, and the Washington Post was, for a very long time, the only newspaper in the country paying attention. I also recall rather vividly in about the last ten days before Nixon's resignation, the extent to which the federal government simply slowed to a halt. I worked in the private sector myself, unconnected to the government, but it was pretty obvious.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

26. The New York Times scooped the Post on occasion.

They had reporters on the case too.

It's time to watch All the President's Men again.

Apparently it's based on something called a "book," whatever that is.

Did you ever get to the parking garage where Deep Throat met Woodward? It was in Rosslyn. I think it got torn down. I finally got there right around the time that Davy Jones of the Monkees died. I was attending meetings nearby. It was a creepy setting.

The "Deep Throat" Parking Garage

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

38. No, never got to the garage.

I've read the book, and I have it on hold with my local library because it needs a reread. Also rewatched the movie recently.

I'd forgotten that the book came out a couple of months before Nixon's resignation. The movie, because it came out later, of course fills in what happens after the book.

Since I didn't read the NYTimes, my ignorance of their reporting is somewhat forgivable, I hope. But I do recall being aware in those early months that almost no other paper was covering the Watergate stuff, and the Post took a lot of heat for that. I suspect that any scoops the NYT came up with, helped the overall coverage a great deal.

I believe that once the Watergate hearings commenced, there was a lot of coverage everywhere. Again, I was living in the DC area and didn't read other papers.

[gademocrat7]

11. Yes it is much worse.

A lunatic president controlled by a foreign dictator.

[hamsterjill]

12. Yes.

Without a doubt THIS is worse than Watergate. As someone on CNN mentioned last night - where is the "Howard Baker" for THIS situation? Answer? There isn't one.

[Kittycow]

34. There's nobody to save us.

[zipplewrath]

13. Yes

As others have said, this is a case of someone working for the benefit of a hostile nation inside the federal government at the highest levels. Even more so, potentially being in positions to place other "friendly" actors within the executive branch. Even with the removal of the most "guilty" it will leave behind people who will continue to act against our interests.

[WhiteTara]

15. Yes.

[mopinko]

16. far, far worse.

an election stolen by a foreign power and a cic out of his head.
and a ruling party totally complicit.

it doesnt get any worse that this.

[The Blue Flower]

61. Exactly

nt

[dalton99a]

17. There is no doubt.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. In my estimation yes

In this case, we have a (hostile) foreign power (Russia) meddling in our elections and the sitting President's campaign team having allegedly been involved in said meddling and a President whom, by all appearances, seems to be trying to cover everything up and even, to some extent, serving the interests of Russia by way of his policies, public statements, and cabinet appointments appearing favorable to them. Plus, we have members of the majority party in Congress apparently trying to tamp down and obfuscate the investigation thereof. Hell, McConnell was briefed on this by the previous President DURING THE ELECTION and dismissed it. I'm no expert on Watergate, but this seems MUCH more serious.

[spanone]

19. it's an abomination of it's own scale.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. We don't know yet.

It could be worse because it involves the interference in our election by an adversarial foreign government, possibly (very likely) in collusion with one of the candidates. But don't forget, the reason the Watergate burglars broke into the DNC office in the first place was to plant bugs to wiretap the phones - they were trying to get information for the purpose of influencing the 1974 election in Nixon's favor. It was the same basic concept as hacking emails. There was a lot of related skullduggery as well, mainly money laundering for the purpose of paying for the illegal "ratfucking." And, of course, it all had to be covered up.

That's more or less what's happening now. It's known that the Russians hacked the DNC. What isn't known for sure is the extent of the Trump campaign's involvement - and that's what's being covered up, but IMO very clumsily. Arguably the current situation is worse than Watergate because of foreign involvement, but it's basically the same scenario. What's different is that, at least for awhile, Nixon was a lot better at it. They didn't call him Tricky Dick for nothing. Trump, however, has been completely ham-fisted from the beginning. Where Nixon really fucked up was when his paranoia got the better of him and he decided to fire the special prosecutor, Archibald Cox, which led to the Saturday Night Massacre. It was all downhill after that.

The parallel, of course, is Trump's firing of James Comey on the most flimsy and unbelievable grounds in order to throw a spanner into the FBI's gears and stop the Russia investigation. Trump, being a clueless idiot (unlike Nixon, who at least understood how the government works), was not prepared for the blowback, or for the fact that the investigations will continue, regardless. The extent to which this situation is, or will turn out to be, worse than Watergate depends on what happens next - particularly on whether there's a Howard Baker among today's GOPers. If even a few Republicans have the stones to call for a special prosecutor, we may yet see Trump leaving the White House in a helicopter.

[Kentonio]

25. Also worth noting

That when Nixon fired Cox it was totally unprecedented territory in a world with far less mass communication and public information. The Trump clown car had the Cox incident as a direct precedent. The idea that people wouldn't connect the two or even care is so nonsensical that it's almost impossible to think they actually believed it.

[WinkyDink]

50. We DO know.

[CK_John]

21. No, we don't even know if there is an issue, we think so, but.....

[WinkyDink]

49. You're kidding, right?! Flynn's ADMITTED to being a foreign agent. Manafort

is gone. Sessions perjured himself to Congress. The Trump scions are making illegal deals right and left.

And Trump has fired the investigators.

It's practically paint-by-numbers treason.

[bettyellen]

62. Speak for yourself- I trust DiFi, Waters and that Stuart Smalley and not Kellyanne or Spicer.

[ElementaryPenguin]

22. Yes. The crime is worse - and we obviously have less means today to remove this criminal President.

This is the biggest political scandal in U.S. history - one that could well lead to our demise as a nation.

[SticksnStones]

24. Simple Answer: yes. Exponentially so. nt

[Doreen]

27. YES!!!!

[nycbos]

28. I wasn't alive during Watergate but it seems worse.

At that time we had Republicans willing to but country before party.


EG Howard Baker "What did the president know and when did he know it?"

[msdogi]

30. Much much worse

Nixon was not the puppet of an adversarial power, trump is. That threatens the very fabric of our democracy. And trump seems to have the full blessing of majority in House and Senate. Truly terrifying times now.

[wryter2000]

73. Welcome to DU

[JustAnotherGen]

31. I think so

I don't recall President Nixon being kissy face buddy buddy with the Russians - but I was born in 1973. The book on it (made into the movie) doesn't reference him doing anything for Russia.

[democratisphere]

32. Damn right it is and we need to do something about it!

[jberryhill]

33. yes, much larger if you confine attention to "Watergate" itself

The attempt to bug the DNC, and then cover it up when it became clear that Watergate operatives had ties to the WH and the political apparatus was somewhat pathetic, really.

"Watergate" was a touchstone to other activities going on, such as the Ellsberg psychiatrist break-in, which were more interesting than the attempt to bug the DNC.

This is much more grave, as it apparently involves hostile action by a foreign power, and not merely domestic political shenanigans.

[FiveGoodMen]

35. M.U.C.H.

MUCH WORSE.

Dictator in White House.

Satan (AKA Ryan) running house.

US brimming with Nazis openly calling this 'their day'.

Press on side of crooked politicians.

Constitution not even an issue.

Russia may actually be the ones in charge.

Watergate? To quote from Pulp Fiction, "not in the same ballpark; not even the same sport"

[Kittycow]

40. I wonder if Weather Underground -types and other

subversive groups will be resurrected from all this to fight against our new government. But in present times, radicals would be fighting against RW militia groups and militarized police. I know the police would be ruthless.

Burn baby burn.

[WinkyDink]

45. The 60s are over. The current "subversives" are in our Executive branch.

[Kittycow]

47. So this generation just lets it go by?

I'm not being snarky.

[WinkyDink]

52. Then you are confusing protests with anarchic violence.

[Kittycow]

54. I think I have them lumped together.

I live in Portland where most protests are ruined by anarchists at the end.

[FiveGoodMen]

68. I think that whoever has the big weapons on their side wins, these days

A few groups with ordinary guns won't stand a chance.

Either the government gets fixed or things get so out of hand that a truly patriotic military coup happens ... or we're cooked.

Individuals and small groups don't hold much sway, I'm afraid.

[Kittycow]

69. That makes sense.

Yeah, a lot of sense. Sorry that I don't add much to the discussion but I'm trying to figure it out.

[FiveGoodMen]

76. No need to be sorry.

I just don't think we have much leverage against the (literal) big guns.

Hopefully, there are still a few decent people within grasping distance of the reins of power.

[Kittycow]

80. I hope the same.

[Jarqui]

37. Definitely

The GOP control congress: McConnell & Ryan are rumored to have received some Russian money. McConnell is protecting Trump with denials of a special prosecutor. Attorney General Sessions is deep within the scandal and already caught lying about it. The Supreme Court is GOP controlled/biased (due to theft of Obama's pick with McConnell's hands all over it).

That ignores Page, Stone, Manafort & Flynn and probably others - just focusing on the heads of the two bodies in congress, the President & Attorney General of the administration and the Supreme Court (who won't get to weigh in anyway with the Attorney General and to-be-named Director of the FBI in Trump/Putin's pocket).

All of the above is coming about from influence of Putin & the Russians - which is mind boggling on it's own.

The "fake" media and the American people are the only ones who can get us out of this pickle - and they may well be powerless to do so.

The threat here is a thousand times worse than Watergate and 9/11 combined because this is an assault on the control of the country and what it's stands for that could very well affect the freedoms of the people and how they will be governed in the future. David Frum's label of "coup" may not be far off.

[Initech]

39. Way worse - the whole damn party is in on it.

[Kittycow]

46. But my mom said trump was redeemable.

My whole fucking family voted for him except hubby.

[WinkyDink]

41. Treason? A coup by a foreign enemy? Why is this even a question?

[yardwork]

42. Yes, for the reasons you cite.

John Dean said that w's administration was worse than Watergate.

Trump's is ten times worse.

[tallahasseedem]

43. Yes.

It involves a foreign country, blackmail, etc.

[GoCubsGo]

44. It's numerous orders of magnitude worse.

[workinclasszero]

48. Yes infinitely worse

Trump is a traitor to his country that wants to destroy democracy and so does 90% of his damned party it seems to me, not to mention his sponsor the fascist goon Putin.

It is our great misfortune that that same party now controls the entire government.

This is not going to end well I think.

[Hekate]

51. I also followed Watergate closely. Probably still have some of the newspapers. Trump. Is. Worse. nt

[WinkyDink]

53. Thank you. Boomers are good for something: We lived through interesting

times.

[L. Coyote]

56. I was glued to the Watergate hearings, paid attention to every detail. WA POst too.

The difference is analgous to the difference between burglary and stealing the whole house, in this case, the White House.

[TreasonousBastard]

58. Infinitely worse. I'm going to get into trouble again seeming to defend Nixon, but...

for all of his faults, he was not a self-interested traitor using the office for personal gain.

Nixon truly believed he was working in the interest of the nation. He opened China and proposed universal health care. He gave us the EPA. Does that make up for the rest of it? Probably not, but he was a complex crook with a tragic flaw. Many tragic flaws.

Watergate was just a stupid petty crime he tried to cover up.

Trump has no interest in the nation at all. He is a carnival barker and flim-flam man with absolutely no interests but his own. The Presidency is not service to the nation as it has been for every one of his predecessors, but merely a way to put his name on more projects.

Trump's dealings are not simply crooked election business, but possibly treason-- selling the country out to Russia.

We have never seen this before.

[LeftInTX]

107. I agree

But, Nixon's paranoia put him on a legal slippery slope. The more he resisted, the more legal issues he had. Kinda like when a defendant does stupid things during their defense and they lose their case (Jimmy Hoffa is one I can think of. Hoffa's bad temper ruined him) On the other hand, you get notorious defendants who keep their mouth's shut and they walk: OJ and Casey Anthony.

We'll see what happens.

[old guy]

59. This is much much worse.

Foreign government interfering in our elections.

[yuiyoshida]

60. Worse than Watergate? I would say...

yes

[The Blue Flower]

63. IL drumpf has already begun the process of destruction

He's tearing down governmental structures and proposed the death by neglect of tens of millions of Americans. The fallout of Watergate never put the very existence of this nation at risk. Fortunately, we have Congress, the press, the courts, and an awakened populace to resist this coup. But damage is being done daily.

[Oneironaut]

64. Most diehard Republicans now see nothing wrong with what Nixon did.

They feel that he was a great American who was railroaded by Liberals. There's zero chance they would impeach Trump, even for the worst offenses.

[Martin Eden]

65. YES, because it involves TREASON

In this case the cover up is NOT worse than the crime.

[workinclasszero]

66. Here is one reason Russiagate is worse than Watergate

McConnell rejects calls for special prosecutor
Most Republicans give President Donald Trump a pass for the sudden firing of the FBI director.
By Burgess Everett , Austin Wright and Seung Min Kim 05/10/17 10:01 AM EDT

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029042400

No way in hell is the republican party of 2017 going to do the right thing! They have total power in Washington DC and they will not EVER willingly give it up!

[bighart]

67. If congress fails to act it is

It is potentially the most destructive crisis to hit this nation since the civil war.

[madokie]

70. Two orders of magnitude worse

[mcar]

71. Yes

[wryter2000]

72. The underlying crime is far, far worse than Watergate

A break-in versus selling out an election.

[Paladin]

74. Yes. The White House occupant is a lot crazier. (nt)

[TygrBright]

75. Don't know yet. We didn't know how "worse" Watergate was at first, either.

KIM Watergate played out over MONTHS... check some of the timelines available online, between the reporting of the burglary and the final resignation.

At the beginning, no one suspected how much "there" actually WAS there.

Media was more respectful back then, although definitely hard-nosed journalists were attempting to do their job. But without social media and the 24/7 news cycle, the methods and incentives for following and gathering information on potentially hinky behavior took more shoe leather and wood pulp review back then.

It's difficult to compare what we're seeing now with back then for other reasons, also... as many in this thread are pointing out.

I would not put money either way on them a) squeaking through with lots of help from GOPpie congresscritters; b) dragging it out for weeks/months before finally going paws-up; or c) the 'rapid devolution' scenario where a Constitutional crisis mushrooms within days.

Not a dime.

Could be any of those at this point.

FFS, these idiots thought it was a cool idea to have both the Russians AND the Prince of Darkness on display at the WH today... they could literally do ANYTHING.

gobsmackedly,
Bright

[LisaM]

77. I think it's far worse.

The only thing that makes it remotely comparable is that both of the men in office were execrable human beings.

[Koch Ebola]

78. I remember the Saturday Night Massacre in 73.

It was a year before Nixon resigned. You see...there this thing called, "Due process" and impeachment of Trump could go on and on ad- nauseam. If Nixon didn't resign in 74, impeachment could of had lasted another year. Unless Trump resigns, we are looking at 2018 for any action

[BlueJac]

79. Without a doubt!

Traitors = worse.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

81. Much worse. Nixon was going to win handily and did not sell out to foreign adversary. . . nt

[redstatebluegirl]

82. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[CanonRay]

83. Yes. Five reasons.

a) No foreign government was involved

b) Watergate did not directly effect an election

c) The GOP then was mostly honorable

d) The GOP base was not nearly as stupid/gullible.

e) There was no State Media (Fox News)

[Voltaire2]

110. Watergate was about interfering in the election

The investigation started over the break-in at the dnc hq in the watergate building. It quickly became evident that the burglars were working for the White House. The impeachment was going to be for the obstruction of that investigation.

[CanonRay]

111. Yes, but it had little or no impact

This mess, however, had a significant impact in a very close race.

[Voltaire2]

112. The Nixon administration used the executive

branch to directly interfere in the election. The break in was one of many operations. We don't know what the total effect was. Nixon obviously thought it was needed.

[world wide wally]

84. We survived Nixon and Watergate. Not so sure we will survive this with a GOP Congress

[Javaman]

85. two reasons...

one: it involves agents of a foreign government

two: it involved conspirators within the WH working with those foreign agents.

[OregonBlue]

86. Yes, Watergate was straight up dirty partisan politics. This appears to be treason for hire.

[ginnyinWI]

87. Yes. This President has no sense of decency.

At least Nixon knew enough to resign.

[Honeycombe8]

88. IMO, yes. Because the admin. may be a puppet admin. for an enemy foreign nation.

And that foreign nation interfered with our presidential election, going to the heart of the security of our democracy.

[volstork]

89. No question.

We are in uncharted waters.

[radical noodle]

90. Yes

Watergate was a botched burglary covered up by the administration. This deals with an adversary interfering with our democratic process of elections and the likely collusion of a presidential campaign with that adversary in doing so.

[LudwigPastorius]

91. Yes, it is.

Because, in this case, the President is either acting directly in the interests of a foreign enemy, or can be blackmailed into acting in the interest of a foreign enemy.

Either way, Trump is compromised, and when the President is compromised, the security of the nation is compromised.

The difference between Nixon and Trump is the difference between a common criminal and a traitor.

[LVNVblue]

92. Yes

I am old enough to remember Watergate. The cover-up there was worse than the crime--and it brought our nation to its knees. In this instance, the President of the United States, members of his family and those surrounding him throughout the campaign are linked to the Russians. It is known that Russia interfered with our democracy (as well as other democratic nations around the world) and this President is trying to stifle any investigation into Russia's proven influence on our election. Besides Flynn, we could all name at least 6 people who have some sort of relationship with Russia. Most of the republicans have been complicit in their support for Trump and this administration. Our country is currently in the absolute stranglehold by the republicans in all branches of our government. IMO this is a constitutional crisis just for that reason. We need to be able to have faith in any determination made by any entity investigating the Russian influence. This latest bombshell has destroyed any confidence the American people can have with any conclusions now, because all the investigations are either controlled by republicans or the DOJ/FBI. We need a non-partisan, independent investigation, so that we can believe whatever outcome is forthcoming.

[mnmoderatedem]

93. that's almost a rhetorical question

mega yes.

[byronius]

94. Order of magnitude worse.

Serious business. We may end up being called the Second Greatest Generation.

[Sancho]

95. No...Trump is not Nixon....

Trump is unskilled, emotional, and careless.

Trump doesn't really have lots of political support except other who are just as guilty of collusion.

Trump actually committed much worse crimes than Nixon.

Trump left obvious evidence of his crimes.

Trump has fired a bunch of people who will ultimately rat on him.

Even the repubs hate Putin and Russia.

Trump is going down.

[Bettie]

96. It is, because back then

there were ethical Republicans who put country over party.

As those people no longer exist, we're screwed and the Orange thing will get away with everything while we continue a proxy fight over a primary that is long past.

[ffr]

97. And it's another Republican created crisis.

We had the Republican depression in 1929
Republican Nixon in the 1970's
Guns for hostages during Republican Reagan
Republican Bush Sr's 1992 recession
Republican Bush Jr's deep-recession of 2007- 2009
Now we have Republican tRump's & the GOP turning our democracy into a autocracy for their looting ways.

I'm numb with fear of everything republican. They're all criminals, down to their criminal loving supporters!

[lunatica]

98. I think so because of Congress being so divided

and so are the American people.

We weren't divided between party lines back then. Now we've had decades of Rush Limbaugh and FOX spewing hatred and giving the American people who watch them a steady diet of rage against us.

Trump is the living proof that the hatred worked.

[catbyte]

99. Yes. Watergate was a 3rd rate burglary & its coverup. This is treason & the security of our

country is in jeopardy. This is much, much worse. I am also afraid that there aren't any principled Republicans who care more about their country than they care about their party/power now like there were in 1973. There are no statesmen or patriots in the Republican leadership, and I use the term "leadership" loosely. There is no leadership.

[IronLionZion]

100. Back when GOP feared an insurgent liberal from a small state

Nixon was so paranoid but his covert activities on the DNC had very little effect on the election outcome.

McGovern had dangerous ideas like reducing defense spending and giving money to every US Citizen instead of tax cuts.

[Moral Compass]

101. Yes

[MFM008]

102. yes

Nixon was corrupt, he lied but not for a foreign government, they had a democratic congress in 1973-74.
There were checks and balances.
There are none now. None.
Its worse.

[Auggie]

103. Yes

[That Guy 888]

104. Yes both the crimes and the GOP is putting Party before country.

I don't think anyone in the "party of personal responsibility" who are "strict Constitution originalists" will actually take action in defense of a nation that they only pretend to love.

[onenote]

105. That isn't a "simple" question.

We know the facts about Watergate. At the moment, we have a mixture of facts and speculation about Trump and the Russians. At some point it might be possible to have a "simple" comparison of the two, but we're not there yet. Which is why the investigation has to continue.

[Texin]

106. It's much worse, because it involves foreign collusion with an avowed enemy.

I am a mature woman born during the height of the Cold War and ante-Communist McCarthy era witch hunts. The majority of U.S. citizens have had an outright hatred, fear and eventual skepticism about the former Soviet Union and the acts and events following the installation of Putin has reenergized the growing concern over this klepto-autocrat's motives, which were only klieg-lighted during the recent U.S. election, and now, this past election in France. Most are now concerned with the upcoming elections in Germany.

Trump and the people with whom he's surrounded himself have deep ties, most of those financial ones, but also dubious allegiances to this foreign country. Trump himself egged on Putin to meddle in the election and was Julian Assange's most ardent cheerleader, who basked in the WikiLeaks revelations. Most people believe those WikiLeaks revelations were supplied by Russian hackers. It's clear that the FBI/Justice Department were investigating the ties between Trump's people (which includes his own son-in-law and perhaps his entire adult extended family for all we know) were being investigated with purported indictments having been issued and dropped on the very day he sacked the investigation's director. In my mind there is no question that this move, following a couple of weeks of public testimony by Comey, Yates and James Clapper, was predicated because the investigation was getting too close for comfort for Trump so he ham-fistedly fired the lead investigator and spokesperson in the investigation with lame excuses that seemingly were ginned up to bi-partisan support.

Nixon's Watergate crap was a case of Executive Branch (and Justice Department) overreach, and a subsequent coverup. Those things were egregious in and of themselves, but they were of a domestic nature that did not involve a longstanding adversary acting as a conduit of information, misinformation, political hacking and, perhaps, blackmailing principal members of the new government, perhaps all the way to the top of the chain in the Oval Office and members of his family.

That is why this is far, far worse than Watergate. This is outright treason at the highest level of government and of a most sinister and deeply, deeply frightening nature. This must not be allowed to continue or to stand unmet by challenge and prosecution where deemed appropriate, including but not limited to impeachment of Trump, his removal and prosecution for these acts.

I am not optimistic that it will happen and I am deeply frightened for the continuation of our constitutional government.

[DeminPennswoods]

108. Underlying crime is worse

than Nixon's dirty campaign tricks.

The abuse of power to try and stop an investigation is the same. Trump has not yet defied a court order, but that could be coming sooner rather than later with the deadline for complying with Senate Intell Cmte document requests. Right now Nixon is ahead on that score.

[tavalon]

109. Simple answer: Yes.