I really really really really REALLY want to believe Mensch

[Orrex]

So that makes her claims true, right?

[Thomas Hurt]

1. sure it does, for some people,

just like conservatives believe that Obama is a Muslim Nigerian cuz they want to...

[tblue37]

7. Hey! They think he's Kenyan, not Nigerian. nt

[tblue37]

8. Hey! They think he's Kenyan, not Nigerian. nt

[Cattledog]

2. I really, really wanted to believe in Santa Claus...

[Maraya1969]

3. I don't think she has been proven wrong has she?

[Orrex]

12. No one has to prove her wrong

She needs to demonstrate that she's right.

Otherwise we're taking her claims on pure faith, which is silly.

[laserhaas]

31. We'll soon see

[melman]

4. Yes

Also don't forget she's an ally no matter what she's done or written, who she works for, who she associates with...

None of that matters.




*But she might stop being one later. You never know. Still, she is one now. Because...tweets.

[Ccarmona]

5. She's an Enigma

She has been right about the Grand Juries being in place and FISA Warrents being issued.
Matt Taibbi and Glen Greenwald don't believe her, while Keith Olbermann has quoted her and used her as a source.

[wildeyed]

20. I would add that I don't consider anyone you mentioned particularly credible either.

They all have pretty distinct agendas.

[SaschaHM]

6. Remember when Jill Stein was telling DU'ers what they wanted to hear?

She was suddenly bombarded w/ cash and admiration even though she spent an entire election dragging Hillary down and boosting Trump.

[tableturner]

9. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[Charlotte Little]

10. No

The naysayers can't even read the question you wrote, let alone answer it (or if they can/do, it will be through gritted teeth). It's like they are colorblind only it's Louiseblind. She is a nasty conservative who supports Brexit, don't ya know? That's all they can see and they know she's wrong no matter what.

Seriously, I'm beginning to think we need a sub forum for the L&M camp to go post to one another without all the interruptions from those naysayers who really, really, really want us all to not to talk about L&M.

[Orrex]

17. Urging caution does not make me a "naysayer"

But believing her without question makes you... What? A yea-sayer?

As is typical of the truebeliever, you immediately attack the skeptics as "colorblind," etc. Next you'll tell me I'm "closed-minded."

I've heard it all before. Blah blah blah.

If I'm wrong--and believe me when I say that I hope that I'm wrong--then I'll admit it. If Mensch is shown to be wrong, will you simply shrug and wait for your next chance to accept her claims without question?


In the absence of corroborating evidence, the more dearly you want a thing to be true, the more you should hesitate to believe that the thing is true.

[Charlotte Little]

29. Grit those teeth any harder...

...and you might break one.

You are exactly the naysayer to whom I refer. And you aren't being attacked.

Lastly, who the shit said I'm not a skeptic?

[Orrex]

35. For one thing...

you attack those who call for corroborating evidence, so that doesn't exactly cast you as a skeptic.

You also deny that you're attacking even as you're attacking, which is interesting embrace of gaslighting, all things considered.

[Foamfollower]

11. Even though she has not been copletely accurate a single time on this subject.

[Orrex]

13. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

If she's wrong, then what will you say?

[LaydeeBug]

14. It certainly doesn't make them false, and she *bested* Flynn Jr. the other day so badly

that I'll take it with a grain of salt.

[brettdale]

15. A man just flew past my house

He had six heads.

Prove to me that Im wrong.

[LaydeeBug]

18. bizarre post, that *still* doesn't disprove Mensch.

maybe sprinkle some grains of salt on the man and it will help with this?

[brettdale]

23. hang on I mean

20 heads, his name was Taylor.

When people change their story, you know somethings up.

[Orrex]

19. You fool!

That was a pair of three-headed twins. Look closer next time.

[brettdale]

24. haha

Good one.

[Orrex]

21. Ultimately, all that anyone is asking for is skepticism

I'm struck by the eagerness with which some have accepted her assertions while rejecting suggestions that they might be inaccurate.

"With a grain of salt" is the right way to take it. Let us wait for corroboration before we declare her claims to be proven.

[Kingofalldems]

16. There could be someone trolling her for all I know.

If this turns out not to be true she must give up her sources.

[wildeyed]

25. My current theory is that she is trolling Trump.

Trump's mental health is already in decline. He is a know conspiracy nut. Mensch and her crew are probably pushing ALL his buttons. It's gotta make them NUTS. She makes any damn accusation she want and nothing they can do about it. And she is right enough of the time that they can be really nervous that some of her made up stuff is ALSO true. And she is now famous to the point that she is showing up in my Facebook feed from people who dislike Trump but are not particularly dialed into politics.

It's a HUGE dose of their own medicine. They use the same kind of unprovable Twitter propaganda to plant all kinds of nasty thoughts about Clinton in the mainstream press. Now they get a dose of their own medicine. She completely undermines Trump's credibility in this way. Personally, I don't care if it's true or not. I just warn people not to pin too much hope on her promises.

Also, she appears to be a total drama queen who loves the attention. That might also explain her motivations.

[bathroommonkey76]

22. No

It makes you like all of the people who want to bring down Trump's presidency. There are thousands on Twitter who hope her claims are right- I'm one of them. But if her claims don't pan out it won't be a big deal at all. It's not like the mainstream-media is going to do any groundbreaking journalism. They are all afraid of Trump, and aren't willing to stick their noses out. Trump intimidates ALL of them!

How about I keep retweeting Louise Mensch, Claude Taylor, Keith Olbermann, and Joy Reid for you? And if anything of substance comes from them I'll pass the information along to you, k?

[brettdale]

26. Has anyone contacted

Chuck Rhodes?

This has his fingerprints all over it.

[bathroommonkey76]

28. He's one of my favorites

Pennsylvanians were lucky to have him.

[Warpy]

27. No, it means you're being set up for disappointment

If any of this stuff is proven true, it will be in weeks to months. You'll just have to wait for confirmation because until then, they're just rumors and her rumors are no better than anyone else's rumors.

Remember Fitzmas?

My own attitude is an "oh, that's interesting" and I move on, not really believing a word of it at this point. It took two years to build a solid case against Nixon and he wasn't hiding his trail in a convoluted mess of shell companies, numbered offshore accounts, and other tricks of the rich mobsters. Unless Asshole gets frustrated enough to quit, it will take at least that long to get him out through impeachment. And that's if both the House and Senate change hands in 2018, a very tall order.

[brooklynite]

30. I don't...

I don't WANT to believe anything. I believe things for which there's supportable evidence.

[OnDoutside]

32. What's wrong with you people ???

You don't HAVE to believe her !!!

You don't HAVE to read what she writes !!!

No one is forcing you !!!

We won't think any less or more of you.

If you can't read her stuff, and take it as "nice rumour, but not proven fact yet", then you should stay clear of her and Taylor's writing.

I like it as it gives some idea of the direction law enforcement MIGHT be headed in, but I'm realistic to understand that Trump is aiming to kill all investigations into him. In any case, we know for certain that European be IC provided evidence of Trump collision to the US, so I'm hoping worst case that this info will leak from them.

The best thing about Mensch and Taylor is that Trump is reading their stuff and is losing it ! That's the bit I love ! So relax, enjoy.

[Orrex]

34. "You don't HAVE to believe her !!!"

Right, but those of us who don't believe her--that is, those who don't unquestioningly accept her pronouncements as true--are told that we're naysayers, that we're closed-minded, that we're negative, and a host of other endearing insults.

If you can't read her stuff, and take it as "nice rumour, but not proven fact yet", then you should stay clear of her and Taylor's writing.

Seriously? DU as a whole can't seem to shut up about them for the past few days, so unless you're telling me to leave DU for a while, there's no way to steer clear of her or Taylor.

[OnDoutside]

37. No, you can ignore those posts or threads, no one is forcing

you to read or respond to them. In fact the vehement rebuttals shows you and/or others are taking them way too seriously, and it's pissing everyone else off.

[Orrex]

39. The only people it's pissing off...

are the ones who for some reason can't bear the idea that anyone might question Mensch's pronouncements.

And, if it's pissing them off, then I recommend that they ignore the threads that dare to point out the reality of the situation, that Mensch's tales are as yet uncorroborated, so celebration is premature. Your vehemence here ("What's wrong with you people?&quot suggests that you are likewise taking it too seriously.

[OnDoutside]

40. So a thread with Louise Mensch in the title should only be entered

By Russian bots and far left haters of anything from the right ?

I'm just trying to explain why you're meeting with derision, neither you or I can prove any of it, yet you're trying to stop people Menschioning her name. That's the bit I'm pointing out, especially as there could be jpr, trumpists or Russian bots trying to delegitimize opposition to Trump.

[Orrex]

41. Your subject line makes no sense

And it has nothing to do with anything I've posted anywhere in the past 30 years or so.

I'm just trying to explain why you're meeting with derision, neither you or I can prove any of it, yet you're trying to stop people Menschioning her name.

First, bravo for the pun.

Second, as the one of the ones who are meeting with derision, it's because I'm saying "let's wait for corroboration." Granted, this current thread adds a touch of snark, but the underlying point is the same, as you note:

neither you nor I can prove any of it

so I'm holding out for proof.

Others are already celebrating, and they seem annoyed that anyone's calling that celebration premature.

They can mention her name all they like, but they should accept that some people will see reason to doubt.

[Leith]

33. Something About Mensch Puts Me Off

Maybe it's that Stepford Wife smile. Maybe it's the constant hype of something really juicy going down this very minute! She's jumping up and down shouting "Look at ME!" all the time. She should just report what has just happened, not blare out promises that is about to happen and to check back often to find out what it is.

[Bradical79]

36. Won't know until acted on

Or some journalists confirm. That's my stance as someone who has no control over this either way.

[OnDoutside]

38. Exactly ! Each piece is mildly interesting until MSN confirm.