Should a guy who is now 36 still serve life without parole for shooting a cop to death?

[Archae]

The guy was 17 when he shot a Manitowoc cop, 3 times in the back.

I say he should STAY in jail until he dies.

http://www.wbay.com/content/news/UW-Law-School-group-seeks-parole-for-convicted-teen-age-cop-killer-423050534.html

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. As soon as the cop who shot the guy in the back, running away, gets the same.

[Archae]

2. That cop should go to jail.

Now answer my question.

[Tiggeroshii]

14. Go to jail or die in jail?

[Archae]

23. 20 years for manslaughter.

[LanternWaste]

10. Thank you!

Thank you! The inequity and disparity of justice is an overwhelming inconvenience to so many arguments which are predicated on precedent and consistency of sentencing. Until addressed, all else becomes far too relative and subjective.

[Eliot Rosewater]

11. We are ALL capable of far more than we know. Nothing excuses what he did, nor am I doing

that.

But after 30 years of saying the right things, doing the right things, etc., maybe that is enough?

Not sure.

[uppityperson]

3. It depends.

[maxsolomon]

5. I concur

The age of the criminal is at the heart of the matter. The question is the purpose of imprisonment: punishment, or rehabilitation?

Let's ask William Shakespeare what he thinks:

The quality of mercy is not strained;
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
‘T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown:
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
When mercy seasons justice.

[Jose Garcia]

15. There is another reason for imprisonment

To keep dangerous people away from those who they may harm.

[Jake Stern]

4. Let him grow old and die a caged man

Life without parole is appropriate in this case.

[janterry]

6. I don't know this case

but in general, I'm in favor of parole at some point. People change. Justice is not served (imo) by spending your whole life in prison. Some guys (and women) that I've worked with over the years really needed to be locked up and shouldn't get out. But (frankly) they were the minority.

jmho

[GulfCoast66]

8. Get in a fight and kill someone at 17

And I will give you a small chance.

Shoot anyone in the back 3 time and you are lucky I do not believe in the death penalty.

Life with no parole. Some things are beyond the pale.

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. 17 yrs old? It would depend on the circumstances of the shooting, which appear

to be cold blooded.

It would depend on his behavour since, attitude, activities in jail.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends.

[Lee-Lee]

12. Maybe parole after 50 years- but not after 20 like they want

I get that the cop hate here is strong, but the murder of a police officer is not just a murder of a person. It is a direct assault on the legitimacy of government on top of the taking of a human beings life. Two wrongs against civil society in one act.

And if you want a strong government that has laws that are enforced, you must have a police force backing up those laws. It doesn't matter if it's laws against murder to laws saying you must pay taxes to campaign finance laws to laws governing health care to zoning ordinances- every one is eventually enforced by a law enforcement officer if people refuse to comply.

If you want a law, you must have police power backing up the enforcement of that law. Otherwise it's just a request.

So an assault on a law enforcement officer is an assault on the very core of the laws of our country and our government. As such it must be treated in a way that underscores the very serious societal effect that comes if people stop respecting the governments authority.

[liberaltrucker]

13. I don't hate cops, I understand their necessity in a civalized society

But murder is murder, no matter the occupation
of the victim.
That said, the guy should die in prison. Shooting
someone, anyone 3 times in the back is cold
blooded murder.

And thank you for your service as an LEO.

[hamsterjill]

16. Thank you. No cop hate from me.

Your post is well stated.

I live in a major metropolitan city that is seemingly fearful of the "cop hate", and perhaps with good reason, although we haven't had the same type of offenses that some other cities have.

What I'm seeing right now in my own particular neighborhood within the city are the repercussions of the "fear of doing something wrong" that many police officers feel. Many officers are simply not doing anything when they respond to calls. The common response to residents is that if the officers (themselves) do not see the crime being committed, there isn't much they can do. And the chances of the officers actually witnessing a crime is practically nil - especially since our police force is short about 200 officers because of budget crap. So when residents call the police, the police respond sooner or later, say they can't do anything (normally blame the fact that it's the "detectives" who decide what can be done), go on their merry way, and nothing gets accomplished.

Yes, I stipulate that like all professions, there will always be the bad cops who take their power too seriously and use it inappropriately. Those types should be held accountable. End of story.

But the majority of the police officers that I've encountered over my lifetime are just men and women with a job to do. When they try to do that job with the fear of getting in trouble for doing that job - the job doesn't get done and eventually the responsibilities of the job suffer. Moreover, the job doesn't get done the way the public wants and needs for it to be done.

We need police officers and those officers need to be able to do their jobs properly without having to live in fear of repercussion if they aren't doing anything wrong.

[Lee-Lee]

19. In many large cities proactive policing has ended, as well as anything with any risk

Not so much risk of the injury, but risk of it being twisted the wrong way.

I have friends in several bigger cities where they feel the leadership will hang them out to dry or where people are pushing false narratives or stories against cops just out of spite or where the in thing politically seems to be attacking police actions and they all tell me the officers have mostly reacted to it by taking the "Office Space" mentality of doing just enough to not get fired.

They are saying if you don't want us to do what we do, then we won't and enjoy the results.

So no more proactive policing. You see that person who you know has a history of burglary out at night in an area he doesn't live in acting suspiciously? Proactive would be checking on him to see what he is doing and at least letting him know your in the area and watching him. The non-proactive way is say "he's not breaking the law, not my problem" because if you approach him you might get attacked in the media or by superiors for harassing him or approaching him without reason if for some reason the situation escalates to abuse of force.

See that car with a t-shirt draped over the steering column drive by? That's a sign it's stolen and they are hiding the ripped out ignition switch. Proactive means turns after it, run the tag and see what's up. Now it's "well that doesn't match anything on the hot sheet for stolen vehicles so better leave that alone" because on the tiny chance someone just oddly draped a shirt over the steering column for no reason you get accused of profiling or being racist if it's a non-white.

See a wanted person and he runs? Well, they are probably not going to chase him hard enough to catch him if they feel like whatever force they have to use to make the arrest will be immediately second and third guessed and could cost them their career.

When you feel like you will get hung out to dry when you have to make hard decisions in a hard place because none of your leadership will back you up then what does any employee do? They avoid those circumstances.

[hamsterjill]

22. Exactly!

That is EXACTLY what is happening in my neighborhood.

Last week, a known thief in the neighborhood was photographed via a Ring doorbell taking an Amazon package from a front porch. This did not happen at my home, but it very well could have.

His photo was posted all over the community board and the police response was that they had "identified him". He hasn't been picked up, hasn't been questioned, and hasn't suffered any consequence for stealing from someone's front door.

Now, should this guy (who is white by the way - so let me just get that out of the way) get SHOT for stealing a package? Probably not. But does this homeowner have a right to have a package delivered to her home and expect it not to be stolen? Of course she should.

Now, the whole neighborhood is talking about how people need to arm themselves because nothing has been done about the theft.

Those are the types of repercussions that I and many of my neighbors are seeing when the police are fearful of getting into trouble for doing their jobs. In the past (as you illustrate), the cops would have at least visited the thief to let him know that he is being watched. You know, put a little fear into him at a minimum. But now, heck, each time he gets away with a theft, he's emboldened to try something bigger and better next time. So one of these days when he tries to steal something from the wrong person, he'll get shot for doing it, and then we'll have a discussion about how HIS rights are being trampled upon.

[WinkyDink]

17. I thought such punishment was made illegal for minors-at-the-time?

[BigDemVoter]

18. I cannot say.

I usually do have issues with juveniles being charged as adults, but this was a craven act.

[tblue37]

20. Details from the trial:

http://chippewa.com/photo/article_22fd59b6-443e-5ad3-88ee-17251dc02d98.html

"Jason pointed a gun at officer Ten Haken and fired repeated rounds from five feet away," Fitzgerald said. "The evidence shows the defendant fired those shots with the intent to take Officer Ten Haken's life."

Halda had faced a maximum of 15 years in prison for an outstanding burglary warrant and did not want to go to prison, Fitzgerald said.

From another article:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-10-13/news/9810130304_1_two-other-teens-aiding-killing

According to the criminal complaint, the teens, who were wanted concerning previous crimes, talked about killing the officer rather than going to prison.

It seems pretty darned cold-blooded. On the one hand, at 17 a person's prefrontal cortex is not full developed, and people sometimes do change. On the other hand, though, if it were my son who had been shot to death so cold-bloodedly, I suspect I would want the man to stay in prison.

Because of the extremely cold-blooded nature of the crime, I also wonder whether this Halda guy is perhaps a sociopath. A sociopath is already a sociopath at 17, and not only does a sociopath not develop a conscience over the years, but he can also fool people into believing he is all reformed.

Not sure I would trust this man.



NOTE: Apparently we still have no HTML effects for excerpts.

[sarisataka]

21. Someone willing to commit a cold-blooded execution

Is someone who should not be allowed in society. That the victim was a police officer in this case is extraneous.

[cwydro]

24. Stay in jail.

Without a doubt.

[WillowTree]

25. He should get his life back as soon as the cop he murdered gets his back.......and not until.