Democrats are falling for fake news about Russia

[applegrove]

by Zack Beauchamp at Vox

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/19/15561842/trump-russia-louise-mensch

"SNIP.............


President Donald Trump is about to resign as a result of the Russia scandal. Bernie Sanders and Sean Hannity are Russian agents. The Russians have paid off House Oversight Chair Jason Chaffetz to the tune of $10 million, using Trump as a go-between. Paul Ryan is a traitor for refusing to investigate Trump’s Russia ties. Libertarian heroine Ayn Rand was a secret Russian agent charged with discrediting the American conservative movement.

These are all claims you can find made on a new and growing sector of the internet that functions as a fake news bubble for liberals, something I’ve dubbed the Russiasphere. The mirror image of Breitbart and InfoWars on the right, it focuses nearly exclusively on real and imagined connections between Trump and Russia. The tone is breathless: full of unnamed intelligence sources, certainty that Trump will soon be imprisoned, and fever dream factual assertions that no reputable media outlet has managed to confirm.

Twitter is the Russiasphere’s native habitat. Louise Mensch, a former right-wing British parliamentarian and romance novelist, spreads the newest, punchiest, and often most unfounded Russia gossip to her 283,000 followers on Twitter. Mensch is backed up by a handful of allies, including former NSA spook John Schindler (226,000 followers) and DC-area photographer Claude Taylor (159,000 followers).

There’s also a handful of websites, like Palmer Report, that seem devoted nearly exclusively to spreading bizarre assertions like the theory that Ryan and Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell funneled Russian money to Trump — a story that spread widely among the site’s 70,000 Facebook fans.


...............SNIP"

[emulatorloo]

1. Strawman. Which Democrats on DU believe Bernie and Hannity are Russian agents?

None of us.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Louise Mensch is the one making that claim.

As well as claiming that the Ferguson protests were financed by Russia, that Black Lives Matter is a Russian-financed false front, and many other things besides. And plenty of people here seem to be willing dupes for a lot of Mensch's other bullshit.

[bettyellen]

6. Hannity? LOL that's pretty wild. I know it bugs people that Sanders campaign manager

Has also had connections but it's no reason to dismiss what we seen going on with the Trumps. Hannity though?!! That's new to me, lol.

[emulatorloo]

8. Nobody on DU is echoing those claims though.

Yes there are folks that follow and post Mensch here. But I think most folks read her w a big ole boulder of salt.

People post about what her sources say about Trump/Russia.

I have >>never<< seen a thread here that endorses those views of her's on BLM, Ferguson etc.

Have you?

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. I've seen plenty of threads defending Mensch

which I see as a tacit endorsement of those views (or an uninformed ignorance that she has them). In either case, like I said, plenty of fools and dupes around here.

[emulatorloo]

14. Sorry, 'Tacit endorsement' argument here doesn't cut it.

We're all solid in our support of BLM. People here aren't "fools" or "dupes".

Because some repeat what she said about a FISA warrant that it took the MSM 6 months to "break" later doesn't mean they embrace every viewpoint she has.

DU is focused on Trump/Russia. Yes she's a flawed messenger. People get that.

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Yeah, a lot of people here are in fact

because citing Mensch is the same thing as citing Alex Jones. She's in the same category of crank.

[emulatorloo]

18. Mensch has been correct about a lot of Trump/Russia. Jones has been correct about NOTHING.

so let's not get carried away with false equivalencies.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. She's been "correct" about maybe 2 or 3 things

and she's wrong about just about EVERYTHING ELSE. Pro-Brexit, pro-Gamergate, the list goes on and on. She is not someone you should be taking seriously.

[annabanana]

36. must have missed those

got a link?

[Spider Jerusalem]

43. Google is your friend

Link to tweet

?lang=en

See also this: https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/menschs-list?utm_term=.wu3MpKRNm#.gk7yp0go3

among other things Mensch claims that the 15-year-old girl Anthony Weiner went to prison for sending explicit photos/messages to doesn't exist except as a Kremlin psyop, that Andrew Breitbart was killed by Russian intelligence to facilitate the rise of Steve Bannon, that Bernie Sanders is a Russian agent, and quite a lot of other absolutely batshit insane nonsense.

[ATL Ebony]

46. Any link to Mensch for those claims? If not, why use such a broad brush to apply . . .

to all DU posts re Mensch as similar claims. If you don't like her then ignore posts about her but let's not use your opinion to project Mensch negativity -- just ignore her.

[Spider Jerusalem]

48. It's easy to Google.

It's very public. Here she is calling Bernie Sanders a "Russian agent of influence":

Link to tweet

?lang=en-gb

And here she is claiming Russia financed the Ferguson protests:

Link to tweet

?lang=en

She's a crackpot. I am not using a broad brush. Her insanity is well documented. She is not credible.

[ATL Ebony]

49. I'll use my own judgment, just used to reading things for myself and coming to my own conclusion.

Thanks for your opinion.

[bettyellen]

5. There's plenty of huge stories that appear to be true to make this pointless....

WaPo and the NYT new stories, Comey's defenders coming out, Nunez sneaking peaks at the investigation after pulling dirty tricks. There's so much there there I'm not worried about a few rumours being off.

[bettyellen]

2. I've seen more fake stories claiming there is nothing there.... muddy waters are Putin's playground

[emulatorloo]

3. Yeah, the "no evidence of Russian Interference" nonsense from Fox types and Greenwald types.

[bettyellen]

7. The Russians are denying things Trump didn't bother to! It's insane.

[Me.]

13. Here's What's Interesting

While I use a grain of salt with conspiracies I am beginning to wonder why there is such a sudden surge of anti-Louise threads. They become as suspect as anything else and, I also wonder, how many are done by men.

[emulatorloo]

15. I agree. The rash of "Evil Mensch" OP's seem a bit OTT and obsessive.

[ATL Ebony]

47. Great response, agree 100%

[bettyellen]

19. It's interesting yes, and nothing on Claude who backs her...

She was smeared with the nutty and slutty crap early on.

I get that people are concerned with "fake news" but I've never seen anything close to a truth and reconciliation with those who were pushing RT crap last year and yet suddenly people are so concerned.....

[Me.]

21. Exactly

Swarms always raise my suspicions and aren't they always so 'aggressive'

[bettyellen]

23. Yeah I've noticed some strange stuff too.

[emulatorloo]

50. RT crap and uncritical links to Breitbart and Fox during primary 2016

DU was full of uncritical citations to some of the most egregious right-wing propaganda sites.

Rightwing cartoons, rightwing smears, complete reverence for Fox News' "Experts" (aka liars).

I didn't notice a huge pushback on those either.

[bettyellen]

51. Exactly!

[wasupaloopa]

40. We don't believe her because she is the left's version of wing nut talk

If she were a man I would feel the same.

To bad it will take months before we all catch on.

Also too bad that on the left we can be duped just as wing nuts can

[Me.]

44. The Reason Some Give Her Pause

Is that she has had some pretty big scores starting with the British Dossier. It is also true that Claude Taylor, who agrees with her on most things, does not receive the same disbelieving treatment as Louise. In the end, truth will out so we'll see.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Uh, yeah, and in the meantime the actual news is pretty fucking bad for the Trump Administration.

If people weren't speculating about impeachment and resignation at this point, there would be something terribly wrong.

[applegrove]

27. Yes. That is real news. But i fell for the russiasphere stuff last week.

Trump and the GOP have demonstrated themselves to be so messed up that anything seemed possible. Better to put on the brakes with some sources of information as democrats.

[Turbineguy]

11. Interesting.

Stir up more chaos. Discredit that which you trust. Trust that which you cannot verify.

[lovemydogs]

12. Glad I am skeptical on both sides when it comes to sensational stories

If it sounds sensational, even silly (i.e. Hannity as russian agent) then, I blow it off. I stick with well known and proven news sources.
that's not to say I have not or will not in future fall for something but, I tend to be skeptical if it sounds a bit sensational and will double check stories at times to protect myself from fake news items

[Warpy]

22. I'm a retired RN. I disbelieve 50% of what I see

and 90% of what I'm told. I double and triple check, especially on political stories involving Republicans.

[L. Coyote]

16. The same Democrats who believe in aliens and Bigfoot maybe.

And don't knock them, we need the Aliens and Bigfoot voters.

[JNelson6563]

20. Yeah, they are getting more obvious by the day.

I am often surprised at some of the folks who follow this stuff. I like to stick with reputable sources because I don't like bullshit.

[spin]

24. The Russians did their best to interfere with our election. ...

That's what the Russians do.

At this point without any solid evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians it's my opinion that Putin expected Hilary to win in a landslide. Putin wished to taint Hillary and make her a weaker President.

Of course as the investigations go on and on solid evidence of collusion between the Russians and Trump may emerge. I do expect that there will be some evidence of wrong doing between some members of the Trump campaign and possibly some wrong doing by Micheal Flyn, Trump’s national security adviser. I feel he may well face charges and prosecution.

I welcome the investigations as I feel we need to know for sure what was going on. I am simply not getting my hopes too high at this time.

[chillfactor]

26. I do not believe that Democrats fall for fake news....

so I disagree with your assertion.

[applegrove]

28. Some of the russiasphere stuff is just wrong. I fell for it last week. Glad someone

is warning democrats about those sources.

[wasupaloopa]

41. Falling for fake news is a human thing not a political one

[FreepFryer]

29. Pot-stirring, concern trolling and deflection in one insipid article!

Of course we need to continue to exercise careful skepticism about news... that's a requirement of being an informed electorate. However, I find it much more telling that the specific 'fake news' the Vox piece identifies as problematic is "anti-Trump" fake news. However it is in fact the Jackpine Radical types of the ostensibly Democratic side who have internalized fake news - in their case, largely anti-Hillary news - and this author chooses not to address the disproportionate, vote-splitting threat that sort of Cambridge Analytica/Breitbart microtargeted fake news was for the Democrats in November 2016. Instead, he argues that excited talk and unverifiable news items that cast Trump in a vulnerable or treasonous light are an existential threat to Democrats.

We all have our own critical filters, and our own biases... but it is the undeniable facts that now has members of Congress using the I-word, has resulted in multiple investigations of Trump associates, and has seen the appointment of an 'elder scion' as Special Counsel to investigate his ties to Russia.

The flaw in the Vox piece is that it ignores the preponderance of truth, not fake news, that compels further investigation, and provokes the further vulnerability, of Trump.

[applegrove]

30. I fell for news from these sources last week. I'm glad some on the Dem side

are calling them out. Following false news hurts our case against the GOP and Trump. We need to be wicked perceptive at this juncture.

[FreepFryer]

31. What story and what source did you fall for? (N/t)

[applegrove]

33. Everyone mentioned by name in the article. I was made to look like a fool

on the Discussionist.

[FreepFryer]

39. all of them all at once? Wow, you hit the "indiscriminate parroting of rumor as fact" lottery!

[wasupaloopa]

32. I would say you are talking about the macro view and vox is

taking a micro view, that is one story at a time.

In the macro view sure a lot of stories point toward impeachment but not all the stories are true.

There is a lot of money to be made these days being the originator of stories. Not all story tellers have good intentions.

[applegrove]

35. Yes. I concur.

[FreepFryer]

38. Then it's a question of priority - is the micro issue more dangerous than the macro?

Agreed - however imho In this case there is a journalistic/editorial reason for the focus of the piece. Perhaps it's to dampen undue enthusiasm - or perhaps it's to dampen a revolution in popular interest in political journalism amidst the tragedy of the Trump administration.

That is the decision I more than question, having attitudinally denigrated it in my first reply title.

[SaschaHM]

34. Unlike Mensch, you're not telling DU'ers what they want to hear.

Prepared to called a Russian Bot.

[applegrove]

37. I have no doubt Russian bloggers would show up on this thread actually.

Where are You? Come out right now you /#€¥@!!!/*¥!

[emulatorloo]

53. Let me get this straight. Are you insinuating Mensch and Taylor are Russian operatives?

[applegrove]

54. Russians will use anyone who looks useful. Look at Stein. They like

putting their foot on the scale. Getting false narratives out there on the Russian investigation that can then be upended benefits them no?

[emulatorloo]

55. Stein got a paycheck from Putin to have dinner with him at the RT celebration.

I'm sure you've seen the photos of Stein and Flynn partying with Putin. I'm simplifying when I say she were paid to have dinner with him. But they did receive financial compensation. There's a money trail we can follow.

I think you may be comparing apples to oranges. But thanks for the clarification of your thinking.

[emulatorloo]

52. Y'all seem to have forgotten how to trash threads and trash keywords.

[JHB]

42. Potential members of the "I'm indifferent about Louise Mensch" Club are invited...

...to check in on this thread...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029094795

[Iggo]

45. Trash the word "Mensch" and you won't see 99% of that crap.