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Sat May 20, 2017, 08:43 PM

Messages from the other side

Last edited Sat May 20, 2017, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Reading some of the conservative sites, I am realizing that there is a big gap between their world view and mine. I thought there was a gap initially but it is bigger than I thought. They talk about feeling like strangers in their own country, that they need to take their country back. And I am reading this going what the hell are you talking about? As a Mexican American woman, I am thinking can't we all live in harmony. Don't we all have the right to be here? My parents worked in the fields all day in the hot sun for a better life for me. It wasn't just handed to us. It's my country too.

They talk negatively about race mixing and immigration. Also about hearing different languages spoken as if it's a bad thing. They speak of commercials with mixed couples with disdain and beauty magazines full of "brown" (their word) people. And they mention Rush Limbaugh as gospel and speak of white genocide and forced interbreeding.

They speak negatively about gays and lesbians as well as transgender people. And a deep fear of becoming the minority. I know conservatives that aren't this hateful and divisive but this group is a whole other level. I am just wondering how much of the conservative base is radical and fanatic. There is no understanding them. Not the ones that are that far gone. At least not for me.

It's two different Americas. I don't want the America that loves diversity and embraces equality to lose out. I don't understand how women, minorities, lgbt and the poor are considered the enemy. But that's still where we are. And if it's a fight they want, it's a fight they will get. There is no going back to 1950. There will never be an all white United States again. And even that romanticized version of reality never existed. Hopefully we learn the lessons and move forward.

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Messages from the other side (Original post)
Lotusflower70 May 2017 OP
ailsagirl May 2017 #1
Lotusflower70 May 2017 #4
ailsagirl May 2017 #6
Lotusflower70 May 2017 #8
ailsagirl May 2017 #9
Lotusflower70 May 2017 #14
ailsagirl May 2017 #15
GulfCoast66 May 2017 #17
elleng May 2017 #2
Lotusflower70 May 2017 #5
blueinredohio May 2017 #3
ailsagirl May 2017 #7
SonofDonald May 2017 #10
sharedvalues May 2017 #12
SonofDonald May 2017 #20
sharedvalues May 2017 #21
ailsagirl May 2017 #13
sharedvalues May 2017 #11
Buckeye_Democrat May 2017 #19
DavidDvorkin May 2017 #16
Lotusflower70 May 2017 #18
lindysalsagal May 2017 #22

Response to Lotusflower70 (Original post)

Sat May 20, 2017, 08:45 PM

1. I honestly believe they're a fading breed

They also have gross cognitive dissonance

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Response to ailsagirl (Reply #1)

Sat May 20, 2017, 08:56 PM

4. I want to believe that

But they have children and some will grow up with the same mindset.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #4)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:14 PM

6. True-- but they'll effectively be "left behind"

The country has moved on-- we haven't gotten there yet but we're making progress

(I miss President Obama so much!!)

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Response to ailsagirl (Reply #6)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:19 PM

8. Hoping for the best

Because this shit show right now sucks. I miss President Obama as well. Compassion, intelligence and humor as well as strength and integrity. He fought through so much adversity, we have to fight on. Thankfully there are still sane judges.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #8)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:20 PM

9. I'm with you, Lotusflower70

We must never give up

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Response to ailsagirl (Reply #9)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:27 PM

14. Aw thanks

Back at ya ailsagirl. This place keeps me sane in the midst of the storm.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #14)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:28 PM

15. You bet it does!!

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Reply #4)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:48 PM

17. But more will fall in love with and marry

Beautiful brown men and women further isolating the fearful.

Had it not been for evil foresighted gerrymandering in 2010 it would already have been said and done.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Original post)

Sat May 20, 2017, 08:46 PM

2. It surely is.

Read Lakoff.

Back up for a second and explain what you mean by the strict father and nurturant parent frameworks.
https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

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Response to elleng (Reply #2)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:01 PM

5. Interesting observations

There is a lot of truth in that article. The power of language has been used to frame the narrative and the different approaches show what works and what doesn't.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Original post)

Sat May 20, 2017, 08:54 PM

3. It's never going to be a white America

there's too many people that are tolerant of other races, LGBTQ, etc. there's also too many people who have married different races and have children. So they're going to have to live with it.

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Response to blueinredohio (Reply #3)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:18 PM

7. YES-- this is the so-called "new normal"

And also the environment!! Most people care deeply about it-- teachers, bless their souls, have been teaching our kids about it for ages and it has caught on.

I still have faith that our convictions will prevail.

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Response to blueinredohio (Reply #3)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:21 PM

10. I can't imagine where the hate comes from.

I went to a high school and graduated in 1977, we had maybe 8 people of color due to where we live in Washington state, two were well liked cheerleaders, one was class president, they were all great people.

Fast forward to now, I know of at least 15-20 people in my class who have a public dislike of minority's and are quite vocal about it, not blatant white power but close enough as when a conversation about the election was had last year at a local function I overheard such nastiness directed towards people of color it floored me.

I dont understand as I've know these people for over 40 years now, this behavior was never even suspected by me until I overheard the conversation they were having, I'm not prejudice in any way ( well, I don't like bigots/racists ) so I had never known that side of them.

At least the next few generations seem quite at home with each other thank goodness, I hope these cave people don't breed to pass on the hate, thing is a lot of these people know my children are 1/2 Alaska Native, explains why I've never been involved in these discussions before I'd think.

Some of the things I heard that night have made me drop some people from my life.

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Response to SonofDonald (Reply #10)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:25 PM

12. It comes from right wing media

Check the video below.

It's more the fault of right wing media and the ten billionaire families that fund them than it is the fault of citizens.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #12)

Sun May 21, 2017, 09:23 AM

20. Correct

I've always thought it's obvious that faux news & such have done more to create the huge division between the parties and the absolute inability to talk between them.

Someone had to creat this atmosphere of hate and derision, it did not appear out of the ether fully formed, it had to be taught.

The sick part is that there were such willing pupils, the message of hate was designed to find those and tailored to boost those thoughts, disgusting in the extreme.

I have tried to watch faux news a few times over the years to see what the carefully created message is.

But as soon as I see the robots spewing crap I change the channel, I just can't do it, I feel unclean trying.

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Response to SonofDonald (Reply #20)

Sun May 21, 2017, 01:04 PM

21. Others do that for you --

check mmfa.org and Carlos Maza's work - I posted one video below.

Any ideas on how grassroots efforts could help change this?

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Response to SonofDonald (Reply #10)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:25 PM

13. I live in California and there is such diversity

I love it

It's hard for me to believe how much racism there is because I don't personally encounter it

But, realistically, I know I live in a progressive bastion (Bay Area) and that it's not representative of our country's beliefs

But we have to keep at it-- giving up is anathema

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Original post)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:24 PM

11. They are propagandized

Right wing media makes money from fear.

This video shows great examples.


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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #11)

Sun May 21, 2017, 12:14 AM

19. They've certainly been instigators! It also comes from individuals on YouTube...

... who compile videos that try to portray the "others" in the most negative light.

It sometimes comes from people who focus on the worst behavior of African Americans to promote their racist narrative. Sometimes people focus of the worst behavior of Muslims. Other times, people focus on the worst behavior of police officers.

Instead of looking at data across a broad scale to get a better mental picture of reality, lots of people focus on anecdotes. If they're shown a flurry of anecdotes in succession, generalizations can become more entrenched in their minds.

I've seen the same kind of behavior here, to be honest. A thread sharing a personal story to help bolster the poster's narrative often gets many replies and recommendations, especially if the narrative is a pro-Democratic one. Unfortunately, those kinds of anecdotes frequently don't mean very much on a broad scale as they tried to imply.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Original post)

Sat May 20, 2017, 09:41 PM

16. In one sense, I understand their feelings

Not in relation to race or sexual preference or any of the other things they complain about.

What I'm referring to is the experience of growing old and feeling increasingly like a stranger because of social changes, changes in music, clothing styles, etc. It's not even that I disapprove of any of it. It's just that the changes make me feel more like an outsider every day.

(On the other hand, I understand that it's the way it always has been and always will be, and it doesn't influence how I vote. I'm as leftie as ever.)

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #16)

Sat May 20, 2017, 10:54 PM

18. Good points

Change is scary when it's outside of their comfort zone and it seems forced on them. It is out of their control and the only control they have is their response to it.

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Response to Lotusflower70 (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 03:23 PM

22. Just as the eduardian service jobs died off, industrialization

Has been replaced with technology and globalization. It's never going to sink in that the un-educated will never have a living wage. Blame whoever you want.

Factory work is mostly gone, along with coal mining and lumberjacks. But people cling to what they know, even when it no longer works.

Choosing to blame minorites is the refuge of the dinosaurs. It's handy, as long as you have someone who wants to hear you bellyache. After that, does't help one bit.

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