HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Trump DIDN'T DECLASSIFY! ...

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:07 PM

Trump DIDN'T DECLASSIFY! He passed secrets on to a foreign adversary!!!

Had he really been attempting to desclassify the intel he gave the Russians - it would all be available to us now - and it isn't!

If Trump continues to pass our most sensitive intelligence to the Russians, will the GOP continue to defend the practice as just something a President is allowed to do??

Imagine if FDR had been caught passing on locations of American forces to the Japanese or the Germans, do you think there would have been a defense made for him that "the President can declassify anything he wants to" - and that would have been an end to it?

Not in a million years! The outrage would have been deafening, and he would have been universally declared what Trump clearly is...

A DESPICABLE FUCKING TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


45 replies, 11672 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply Trump DIDN'T DECLASSIFY! He passed secrets on to a foreign adversary!!! (Original post)
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 OP
Achilleaze May 2017 #1
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #3
physioex May 2017 #2
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #4
L. Coyote May 2017 #38
WinkyDink May 2017 #25
mr_lebowski May 2017 #32
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #33
Madam45for2923 May 2017 #5
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #6
Achilleaze May 2017 #23
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #31
onenote May 2017 #7
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #8
Akamai May 2017 #24
Igel May 2017 #9
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #10
WinkyDink May 2017 #26
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #30
Bernardo de La Paz May 2017 #11
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #12
WinkyDink May 2017 #28
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #29
SunSeeker May 2017 #13
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #14
bluedigger May 2017 #15
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #17
BSdetect May 2017 #16
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #19
kentuck May 2017 #18
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #20
triron May 2017 #21
treestar May 2017 #22
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #27
BSdetect May 2017 #34
Towlie May 2017 #35
NewJeffCT May 2017 #36
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #39
dchill May 2017 #37
Progressive dog May 2017 #40
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #41
Progressive dog May 2017 #44
tiptonic May 2017 #42
ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #43
LaydeeBug May 2017 #45

Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:10 PM

1. republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief* pisses all over America's security

...and the security of America's allies.

Deplorable.

* Comrade Casino (R)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Achilleaze (Reply #1)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:13 PM

3. Indeed he does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:13 PM

2. Speaking as an outsider....

Doesn't declassification occur well past the end of an operations shelf life, to serve a greater purpose, and after consulting the original source?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to physioex (Reply #2)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:14 PM

4. There's a whole procedure that wasn't followed...

Because that wasn't what he was doing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #4)

Mon May 22, 2017, 11:00 AM

38. Indeed, you don't declassify by spilling the beans. You follow a defined process.

Which Trump DID NOT do and likely has no notion about it as a rank amateur at government and at following pesky rules in general.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to physioex (Reply #2)

Sun May 21, 2017, 06:01 PM

25. Uh, no.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #25)

Sun May 21, 2017, 07:11 PM

32. Uh, yes ... what the poster said is generally 'how stuff goes down' ... in a normal scenario ...

It's highly unusual (and dare i say, highly improper) for a POTUS to 'declassify' highly sensitive material by means of blurting it out to officials from freakin' Russia, visiting the Oval Office, with the US media kept out, and only Russian media present ... ESPECIALLY without getting permission from the ally that provided said Top Secret info.

I'd go so far as to say it's 'unprecedented', because as the poster you're responding to said, there's normally a declassification 'process', one which is not done when the intel involves still-active concerns like ISIS.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #32)

Mon May 22, 2017, 12:19 AM

33. Unprecedented.

Like all things Trump.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:15 PM

5. Yes! He passed ANOTHER country's secrets on to a foreign adversary!!!

 

He undermined and endangered our own intelligence community. They rely on other countries trusts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #5)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:19 PM

6. Right. Which made it even worse.

It's just that we're constantly hit by a barrage of Trump scandals - any one of which could bring any administration down... But this is one that if tolerated - truly means the end of this republic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Madam45for2923 (Reply #5)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:43 PM

23. republican Draft Dodger also be endangering our troops

thoughtless, careless republican shirker & russian-bankrolled, casino sharpie that he is...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Achilleaze (Reply #23)

Sun May 21, 2017, 07:08 PM

31. He's endangered with several actions already,

And he could give a shit!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:24 PM

7. Don't hold your breath waiting for legal action based on the disclosure

I doubt that the administration would argue that Trump declassified the information. What he did he share classified information with a foreign government -- something that happens regularly. indeed, the information he shared was provided to us by a foreign government and I doubt anyone would argue that when a country, such as Israel, shares information with the US (or vice versa), that information is automatically available to the public in either or both country.

The issue with Trump's loose lips isn't whether it was illegal, it is whether it was a bad decision that harmed our interests.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onenote (Reply #7)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:29 PM

8. Thanks for the info. But the defense the GOP members kept making

was that the President can declassify anything he wants. Which isn't what really happened here. Further - it's going to be the court of public opinion which is ultimately going to decide these things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #8)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:52 PM

24. Great point Penguin! Have not heard anyone pointing this out!!!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:36 PM

9. Here's something to consider.

The US and Russia have an exchange of information system set up in Syria and Afghanistan to keep from attacking each other's forces.

Is the operational information--when missions are going to be conducted, where they'll be conducted, what their purposes and extent are--classified or not?

If not, then publishing what the sorties the US will fly over the next week and where their operatives on the ground will be should be published in the NYT, in the interest of the public's right to know.

If it is classified, how dare we share this information with Russia?

Publishing the information is contrary to US interests; it would get US citizens killed. Not sharing the information is contrary to US interests; it would get US citizens killed. Those are apparently the only two moral choices, and both end in ideologically straitjacketed deaths. You may consider this an example of "reduction to the absurd." The classification system and the loopholes in it are old, very old, and both the system and loopholes exist for good reasons.

Now, this particular op-sharing system isn't Trump's. It was set up under President Obama's tenure. Which really means, Do we think that Obama set up a routine system to commit treason or not? Those, again, are the two choices you have, boiling down to, "Obama should have let US soldiers die or he's a traitor." More silliness.


We'll leave aside that there are different levels of classification and that all executive power originates, for good or for bad, with the president (at least until we change the Constitution or redefine "president" in some way that momentarily suits us).

As for passing info to the Russians, it's something FDR did. Routinely. In spite of the fact that Stalin's attitude to the US really hadn't changed. It suited FDR and his goals for US policy to cooperate with the Soviets who, even as the war was being conducted in Europe, had spies in the US to steal secrets, information that FDR didn't authorize sharing with them, and possibly be a position to resume hostilities against us after the Nazis had been defeated.

Now, Trump's bragging was unseemly. It's a sucky reason, if it's really the reason, for sharing information. Yet it's what he is.

And as for Russia's being our adversary, sorry. I rued the day Putin was elected, and did so on the very day he was elected. That was a long, long time ago, and the only time DU didn't allow near admiration for Putin was when Bush II said favorable things about him. DUers' attitudes to Putin are, overall, more based on who's in the White House than anything outside the US, which is sad. I also thought it ridiculous when Romney was ridiculed for calling Russia a "foe" and DU was in an uproar because President Obama was still busy trying his "reset". It was a stupid, idiotic strategy at the time but to say so was not proper politics. The only thing that's changed between then and now is that a lot of there are a lot of johnny-come-lately folk who are anti-Putin not because of new information but because what Russia did finally hurt them domestically. And the only real action they can come up with is to sow dissent and contempt for the US political process and play with discrediting domestic politics (which as the security agencies themselves said in the report whose first page is regularly reported as "...", is their first goal).

Twain said it's easier to trick people than to convince them they've been tricked. Russia's been successful enough that the rumor is they're even concerned about the chaos in US politics. They want to win, but they also value stability. "Win" means "have the US be isolationist and leave Russia to do what they want where they want it." They want to be #1 in a stable world, not #1 in a chaotic world, so it's not a completely implausible rumor. (And, yes, attributing our definition to them is foolishness; in psychology, a reward isn't what the experimenter or boss or teacher says it is, it's what the subject says it is. "I offered them a reward and they turned it down" means "I offered them something they didn't value but I did, why can't they be like me!?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:46 PM

10. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed

For allegedly passing on secrets to the Soviet Union (and of course war was never declared during the cold war time period). A peace treaty was never signed between the U.S. and Russia, after the Soviet Union was reduced to today's Russia. But as almost all of our nuclear weapons are still aimed at them - and there's at us, there is no question that they remain an adversary of ours - and I would suggest they are even more dangerous as a fascist government then they were as a communist one. Lastly, time and time again, U.S. public officials still refer to Russia and Putin as adversaries (admittedly, this the weakest part of the argument).

But thanks for sharing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Igel (Reply #9)

Sun May 21, 2017, 06:03 PM

26. FDR is irrelevant. Russia became our ally DURING WWII, and our enemy POST-WWII. The latter status

 

has not been, to my knowledge, revoked.

RUSSIA IS NOT AN ALLY. SHE* IS AN ADVERSARY.

*Common parlance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #26)

Sun May 21, 2017, 06:59 PM

30. Winky, I think you're missing my point about FDR.

It was just an analogy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:51 PM

11. Your thread title says truth precisely & accurately. Next up: the Israel he betrayed. . . nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #11)

Sun May 21, 2017, 04:55 PM

12. That's going to be interesting - and extremely awkward.

Dictator Netan-yahoo may still love him - but the people and many intelligence officials despise him!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #12)

Sun May 21, 2017, 06:05 PM

28. Israel is a democracy. To call Netanyahu a dictator is not only crass; it is not correct.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #28)

Sun May 21, 2017, 06:10 PM

29. I believe Netanyahu stole the last election, but...

Rather than go into that, I'll correct myself for you.

Netanyahu is not a dictator, (he's just a war mongering asshole). IMO, of course.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:00 PM

13. Exactly. Afterwards, the Shart House told the press not to print the info Shitler gave the Ruskies.

So it was at all times and still is highly classified.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SunSeeker (Reply #13)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:06 PM

14. I know. Why isn't more being made of this??

Rhetorical question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:15 PM

15. Maybe he just gave them the pertinent clearance.

You and I don't have a need to know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluedigger (Reply #15)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:28 PM

17. To drumpf - you and I don't need to know ANYTHING!

What an ugly, fascist clown!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:16 PM

16. Exactly, he just blurted it out like the total shit he is.

It was another felony. Imprison this moron.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BSdetect (Reply #16)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:29 PM

19. Lock.

Him. Up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:29 PM

18. Excellent point!

If he "de-classified" information, we should have access to that information immediately. He can't "de-classify" the info for the Russians and keep it secret from the American people. It is still top secret.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kentuck (Reply #18)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:31 PM

20. Precisely, Kentuck...

Guess they thought we wouldn't notice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:32 PM

21. kick for visibility

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Sun May 21, 2017, 05:35 PM

22. Good point

If it is declassified the. We can all see it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #22)

Sun May 21, 2017, 06:05 PM

27. ...but we can't.

Hmm. Declassified for Russian viewing only. WTF?

Traitor. Fucking traitor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Mon May 22, 2017, 08:06 AM

34. k&r

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Mon May 22, 2017, 09:15 AM

35. So he declassified what he told the Russians but we can't know what it was because it's classified.

.. makes sense, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Towlie (Reply #35)

Mon May 22, 2017, 10:33 AM

36. Gentlemen, there's no fighting in here

it's the War Room.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Towlie (Reply #35)

Mon May 22, 2017, 11:51 AM

39. Trumpeteers accept this without questioning...

But we can't let this be perceived to be acceptable - or all is truly lost (which I don't for a moment believe that it is!).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Mon May 22, 2017, 10:38 AM

37. K&R.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Mon May 22, 2017, 12:09 PM

40. Trump probably reclassified the secrets

after he gave them to the Russians. So, that's OK--probably even smart, to his supporters and enablers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Progressive dog (Reply #40)

Mon May 22, 2017, 01:37 PM

41. That would magnify the crime, actually.

And what would stop him from continually doing this - until he's essentially handed over to the Russians ALL sensitive U.S. intelligence?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Reply #41)

Tue May 23, 2017, 08:14 AM

44. Per his spokespeople

there is nothing that would stop him from continuously handing sensitive intelligence to the Russians or anyone else. The only legal remedy is his impeachment. That is a nonstarter because of the GOP majorities in Congress.
At some point, Trump might go to far, even for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Mon May 22, 2017, 02:16 PM

42. Hence

So true. Hence the term 'Benedict donald'.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tiptonic (Reply #42)

Mon May 22, 2017, 04:03 PM

43. Benedict Donald!

By God - that's a perfect name for him. I don't know how I've avoided hearing it - others must be using it. Just perfect!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ElementaryPenguin (Original post)

Tue May 23, 2017, 09:33 AM

45. knr

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread