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Tue May 23, 2017, 10:40 PM

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution


Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution gives the president the power to “grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”


Is this implying Benedict Donald cannot pardon a co-conspirator ?

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Arrow 10 replies Author Time Post
Reply Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution (Original post)
Pluvious May 2017 OP
Takket May 2017 #1
Massacure May 2017 #2
PatrickforO May 2017 #3
Pluvious May 2017 #9
yodermon May 2017 #4
longship May 2017 #5
yodermon May 2017 #6
H2O Man May 2017 #7
longship May 2017 #8
Pluvious May 2017 #10

Response to Pluvious (Original post)

Tue May 23, 2017, 10:42 PM

1. no. it means you can't pardon a person who has been impeached

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Response to Pluvious (Original post)

Tue May 23, 2017, 10:49 PM

2. He can pardon almost anyone he wants

As long as that person charged and/or convicted in a federal court. If someone is charged by the House of Representatives (impeached) and/or convicted by the Senate, Trump cannot pardon them for that offense.

The only punishment the Senate can dole out is removing people from federal offices and barring them from future service.

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Response to Massacure (Reply #2)

Tue May 23, 2017, 11:37 PM

3. This is why I have a running bet in my office that Trump will

be forced to resign as soon as he knows the House has the votes to impeach him. He won't risk either impeachment or subsequent trial by the Senate. Instead, he will make a deal with Pence to pardon him, and then resign.

His resignation will come by December 31, 2017.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #3)

Thu May 25, 2017, 03:59 PM

9. Or like Bush Sr. did on xmas eve - #sad

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Response to Pluvious (Original post)

Wed May 24, 2017, 01:12 AM

4. not a lawyer, but my understanding is that Potus can't pardon *an impeachment* itself.

as in, if congress impeaches Pence first, Trump can't turn around and un-impeach him via a pardon.

It is very broadly phrased however, and I don't know if the courts have ever interpreted its meaning regarding co-conspirators in criminal cases for which he is currently being impeached.

EDIT to add: Also in the Pence example, suppose he's impeached, removed, and then convicted of a crime. Does the constitution mean POTUS cannot pardon *that* crime either?

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Response to yodermon (Reply #4)

Wed May 24, 2017, 03:03 AM

5. Well, Gerald Ford preemptively pardoned Nixon.

So, POTUS pardoning powers are mostly unbridled.

FYI.

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Response to longship (Reply #5)

Wed May 24, 2017, 09:46 AM

6. good point. So i don't know if that "exception" in Article II has ever been adjudicated. n/t

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Response to longship (Reply #5)

Wed May 24, 2017, 10:09 AM

7. Ford's action

prevented ex-president Nixon from being tried in criminal court. Nixon was not really worried about facing criminal charges, as he was convinced that he could claim he needed classified documents, etc, for his defense, that could not be made public. It can be argued that he was wrong in this belief. But if he had been impeached, the Senate would have had access to the documents that a jury very likely would not have been allowed to see (thus, a mistrial).

Impeachment is restricted to the president, vice president, and federal judges. Those in Congress cannot be impeached, but rather, face criminal charges. Thus, a president can pardon those facing impeachment, but only for the criminal charges that could follow their removal from office. If someone is pardoned for the criminal charges before impeachment, they can still be impeached -- even if they have resigned from office. In Nixon's case, the House determined that it was not necessary to follow through, which negated the possibility of the Senate trying the case.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #7)

Wed May 24, 2017, 11:47 AM

8. Technically, you are correct.

I didn't see any need to go into such detail. Thank you for your addition. It helps those who didn't live through that history, always a good idea.

My best to you.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #7)

Thu May 25, 2017, 04:04 PM

10. Many thanks for your feedback (n/t)

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