HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Constitutional Limitation...

Wed May 24, 2017, 09:45 AM

Constitutional Limitations on Presidential Pardons

The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

ARTICLE II, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 1

Impeachment and removal is permanent. No pardon can reverse that. The next President may be able to pardon Trump for federal crimes he may have committed, but he can't do anything about a successful impeachment and removal. That shame would follow Trump to his grave and beyond.

8 replies, 6186 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 8 replies Author Time Post
Reply Constitutional Limitations on Presidential Pardons (Original post)
MineralMan May 2017 OP
exboyfil May 2017 #1
MineralMan May 2017 #2
exboyfil May 2017 #3
MineralMan May 2017 #5
Wounded Bear May 2017 #7
MineralMan May 2017 #8
MedusaX May 2017 #4
MineralMan May 2017 #6

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed May 24, 2017, 09:52 AM

1. Can he pardon himself?

Still would be impeached, but not in jeopardy under the legal system?

My High School Civics teacher thought the Ford pardon was garbage, and I tend to agree with him. A pardon should only apply after a conviction. It is a signaling mechanism though. Ford stating that whatever Nixon was convicted of, I will pardon him.

Because of the Ford-Nixon precedent, Trump can still do self-dealing preemptive pardons with everyone below him. I would not be surprised if he does this if he is going out the door. Heck he might do it with everyone associated with him to just muddy the waters of any further investigation.

How concerned is he with what history will make of him. It would be the bold maverick like thinking his MAGA supporters love.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Reply #1)

Wed May 24, 2017, 09:58 AM

2. That remains an open question, actually.

Common sense says no, but the Constitution is silent on that question. Personally, I doubt that the courts, including the SCOTUS would allow any person to pardon him or herself. That would make justice a moot issue, really, if it were possible for anyone, including the President, to issue a self-pardon.

The Constitution, in keeping its language simple and brief, appears to recognize common sense where it doesn't speak on an issue. I think that would hold.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Wed May 24, 2017, 10:02 AM

3. Do you think the Framers intended

the preemptive Ford pardon of Nixon?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to exboyfil (Reply #3)

Wed May 24, 2017, 10:12 AM

5. I have no idea. They did not put any restrictions

on a President's ability to pardon, though, except the ones in my quote. Ford prevented Nixon from being tried for any federal crime for actions taken during his presidency. It was a unique pardon. It wasn't tested.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Wed May 24, 2017, 10:16 AM

7. And we're still suffering because of it...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #7)

Wed May 24, 2017, 10:22 AM

8. I suppose so.

However, Nixon was a long time ago, now. He's really not relevant to today's issues. Ford's pardon of him did set a precedent, though, that may be repeated before too long. This time, however, the offences of the current President approach a level not heretofore seen, I believe.

If Trump resigns, it will be only after Pence has already signed a pardon in advance of taking office that will be issued immediately. Lacking that, Trump would probably stick it out and force a full impeachment and removal process.

While part of me would welcome that process, another part thinks it would be very destructive of our political system. On the other hand, Bill Clinton was impeached and the Senate failed to remove him from office. We seem to have survived that OK, so maybe an impeachment and removal of Trump would be salutary for our system. I'm not certain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed May 24, 2017, 10:10 AM

4. Luckily, whether by accident or by design, the check on the presidential power to pardon is held by

The states & their governors.

So, while the pre trial pardon scenario appears to be a 'ringer' of sorts, almost any 'federal' crime committed will fall under the jurisdiction of at least one of the states.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MedusaX (Reply #4)

Wed May 24, 2017, 10:15 AM

6. While that is true, I think it would be highly unlikely for

a state to try such a case, once a President resigned and if that President were given a pardon by a successor. It's not really a matter of what the states could do as much as a matter of common sense. I just don't think such a prosecution would take place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread