Black Farmer Calls Out Liberal Racism In Powerful Facebook Message

[IronLionZion]

Last edited Thu May 25, 2017, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

A black farmer has the internet talking after posting a powerful message on social media about race relations in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Chris Newman, owner of the Sylvanaqua Farms in Albemarle County, shared his thoughts on a recent “Love Trumps Hate” counter-protest on Saturday. The rally was held in response to white supremacist Richard Spencer leading a protest against the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee.

“I’d like to appreciate [the Love Trumps Hate rally],” Newman wrote in a Facebook post published on May 17. “But frankly I just don’t.”

Newman went on to call out the subtle racism of his neighbors, who purport to be progressive and inclusive but have yet to acknowledge the fact that Charlottesville is, by his estimation, “the most aggressively segregated place” he’s ever lived in.

The farmer recounted that he’s been racially profiled and questioned by police several times after receiving “strange looks from a passerby.”

“It isn’t Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black,” Newman wrote. “It’s nervous White women in yoga pants with ‘I’m with her’ and ‘Coexist’ stickers on their German SUVs.”

The farmer went on to suggest that residents of the town who are interested in racial progress should consider how to effect change in their own everyday lives.

“People are so busy going after that easy fix, going after that Confederate flag, that they’re not doing the hard thing, which is thinking, how did we get here, and how the hell do we dig out of institutional racism,” Newman wrote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-farmer-calls-out-liberal-racism-in-powerful-facebook-message_us_5925a027e4b0650cc020eb4d

The racism on our side is more subtle. It rears it's racist head in sneaky ways. Often by people who mean well and don't know or don't want to know they're doing it.
*********************************************************************************
Full Text of Chris Newman's Facebook Post:
A message to Charlottesville about Lee Park from your local Black farmer:

I know some folks are really feeling themselves about this whole Love Trumps Hate counter-rally to Richard Spencer's punch-worthy shenanigans in Lee Park. I'd like to appreciate it, but frankly I just don't.

I've lived in several cities and visited many more before Charlottesville. I like this town for its natural beauty, it's small size, the friendliness of its people, and its food. But folks, here's something else: Charlottesville is by far the most aggressively segregated place I've ever lived in or visited. And that seems a strange thing to have to say about a town that hosts a public university.

I say "aggressively" for two reasons. One, because of how assertive police (and the citizens who summon them) are here with racial profiling. It got so bad in 2014 - 2015 that I stopped renting farmland on estates where I could be easily seen from the road, and I stopped making food deliveries into wealthier neighborhoods because of how often police would "happen by" and sometimes even question me five or ten minutes after I got a strange look from a passerby (usually someone jogging, but occasionally someone in a car). I'm not a paranoid kinda guy, but this happened way too often to be a coincidence.

It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with "I'm with Her" and "Coexist" stickers on their German SUVs.

Second is the sheer degree of cultural appropriation going on with businesses in the city proper. It's little things - e.g. shops and other businesses incorporating wide swaths of hiphop culture into their branding while having not a single Black owner, partner, employee, or vendor. And those businesses are KILLING IT here. This is a town where Blackness advances White-owned brands and subjects Black-owned businesses to inspection by law enforcement.

Do you really think that problem comes from people like Richard Spencer?

Check out C'Ville Weekly's Instagram feed when you get a moment, and try not to notice that the few depictions of Black people are limited to sports, singing, criminal justice, or single parenthood. White people, meanwhile, are represented as political activists, chefs, cogs in the gig economy, musicians, dancers, people who get married, visual artists, songwriters, architects, landscapers, thespians, artistic directors, wedge-heel-wearing rugby players, dog lovers, farmers, firefighters, and people who play with their kids in cul de sacs.

Richard Spencer is not the editor of C'Ville Weekly.

Truth is, as a Black dude, I'm far less bothered by the flag wavers in this picture than this town's progressives assuming its race problem has nothing to do with them. The former is a visual inconvenience. The latter could leave my daughters without a father.

So please, put down the candles and instead ask yourself: why is my city like this? Why is life like this for Black people in my wonderful city? The answer is a lot closer to home than Richard Spencer or Lee Park.

[ExciteBike66]

1. I can just imagine

Cop: Uh, we got a report of a dark-skinned individual stealing a tractor and getting away at 15 mph...

[BlueCaliDem]

36. ROFL!! I know this is about a serious American epidemic, but your illustration had me LOL. eom

[ExciteBike66]

40. Yeah I had nothing constructive to add to the guy's experience...nt

[RobinA]

2. Agree With Him

on the "easy fix" thing. The Confederate flag is a piece of cloth with a certain pattern on it. It isn't racism. Telling me to take down my flag and statue isn't going to change my opinion one bit.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. You completely miss the point of taking down statues and flags.

It is NOT to punish, annoy or convince the flag flyer or the statue's fans.

It is to help children and young adults understand that the overtly racist elements of history that they represent have no place in the modern USA. To help prevent the propagation of hateful racist ideologies.

[Baitball Blogger]

108. +1

[Dem2]

318. Correct

How can anybody think these symbols of hate have no meaning?

[RobinA]

341. No, I Don't Miss The Point

I just don't think it is effective. In fact, I think it has the opposite effect by driving the confederate flag fliers underground, where they get to nurse their grievances in flag-festooned basement rooms and pass on to their kids how the mean old government won't allow them to express themselves.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

345. It is good to drive them underground. Keep their rotten ideology contained & marginalized. . nt

[Demsrule86]

9. It sends a message...and I really don't buy this anyway...in the middle of the Trump

administration, this person worries about 'liberal' racism...and denigrates people who want to remove artifacts of a racist past? He doesn't call out the GOP for voter suppression or unfair justice system ...no it is the liberal's fault...hmm. I promise you this will be trumpeted on the right which maybe was the intention.

[Ms. Toad]

38. Wow. So he should just sit down and shut up in the back of our bus,

because our bus is (in your perception) better than theirs?

I would never presume to tell someone living as a target of bigotry that I know better than he does about the appropriate focus of our anti-bigotry efforts. I would shut up and listen, and ask questions so I can fix the problem.

Controlling political messages should never take precedence over treating the illness in our own political house.

[Demsrule86]

173. Why give ammo to the GOP which he did...do you think that makes it better?

All the lambasting of liberals and Democrats only helps Republicans.

[HopeAgain]

256. Liberals, like everyone else, could use some self-examination.

Who gives a f*ck what the right wingers say if, in fact, this is true? The worst thing we can do as a party is silence criticism by well intending individuals.

[Ms. Toad]

268. I.e. shut up - the impact liberal racism has on your daily life is irrelevant

because acknowledging that we're not perfect might hurt us politically.

I got news for you.

People are always more important than politics, and far too many Democrats share the predominant reaction in this thread. "Who me? But the Republicans are worse."

When the knife being wielded is in the hands of your friends (1) it hurts more and (2) you kind of expect them to respond appropriately when you say - hey, can you please take that knife out of my side?

If we don't start addressing the racism in our own party, African Americans will stop voting for Democats.

[Demsrule86]

363. Well if this sort of effort made by a Republican in my opinion succeeds...how do

you suppose your life would improve under Republicans? It won't...they don't even believe in interracial marriage...get real and consider that Democrats are the only path to civil rights today.

[adigal]

301. Cause this gentleman is correct. We suffer from white privilege

I do, most whites I know do, and I really, really try to be aware of it. Good meaning people still should examine our consciences. I think it's important that we do so regularly.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

228. We don't have the right to have a different view?

His diatribe is full of speculation. He doesn't know who called or calls the cops. At least protesting is tangible and is a known quantity.

I'll take action over speculation anytime.

[Ms. Toad]

270. Take your fingers out of your ears and listen to what he's saying.

He's saying that liberal racism, denied becuase it is an unpleasant conversation, has more impact on his day-to-day life than the big showy removal of symbols of the confederacy.

It isn't that those actions are bad, but that we shouldn't be patting ourselves on our backs when we're tearing down things that have little impact on the lived experience of individuals while sticking our fingers in our ears going "la-la-la I can't hear you" when they are telling us that we, too, are standing on their toes (or worse).

Referring to his experience as speculation (so you can dismiss it as not real) is patronizing and offensive.

[kcr]

282. I think everyone is talking past each other

I don't see many in this thread denying the day to day impact that he's talking about. I think the problem is his contention that one has no significant impact on the other and therefore white people should just stop paying attention to it. He's doing a very bad job of making his point. For one thing, it's wrong to assume that there's a general consensus that there is no connection. He doesn't delve all that deeply into systemic racism to make that point for one thing. His comments and focus on women are certainly doing him no favors, either. He would have been better off focusing solely on the impact of racism in his daily life in a blue college town.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

285. Bingo!

He just wants righteous indignation.

Provide something he experienced, then we'll talk. His pontificating just serves the right-wing, which, I'm wondering if he's a part of.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

284. No, it's not.

It's speculation. He has no way of knowing who calls the cops. His diatribe is speculation and doesn't help. It's bullshit red meat for the right-wing to lap up.

Let me know when he has something tangible to back up his speculation.

And no, I don't think the left are all Saints, so don't bother asking.

[BertNEarnie]

83. I see your point, but at the same time

I see your point, and I agree with you, but at the same time, I don't really know his situation. I mean, he could be bemoaning the merits of political correctness, if his neighbors don't actually care to have anything to do with him. He could well be correct in what he is saying, and if that is case, his neighbors should try to fix that, and our party should take what he is saying seriously.

Yes, the left and especially Democrats fight for minorities, but at the same time, our primaries were drawn upon certain lines. So, if you look at New York, for instance, parts of gentrified Brooklyn voted one way, Spanish Harlem, where my wife grew up, voted another. The goals are pretty much the same, but there is a rift on the left. I mean, one side of our party is more focused one way, one side says you are not far enough left, the other says you voted on extreme principles because you have a trust fund or happen to be upper middle-class and can get away that. I think a rift exists on the left, imagined or perhaps in some areas or in some instances, very real, and I think it could really hurt us going forward.

I don't know if it is a communication problem, or if our party is so large it cannot reconcile the different causes from certain sides, but I think we got to fix, at least our image on some of this. I have no clue how to do that, but it worries me every day.

[JustAnotherGen]

113. He's actually talking about

Everyday bigotry. I ran into one on the Indivisible FB page yesterday.

If he lives in an area where people have their she persisted t shirts on while sitting in a stoplight with an indivisible sticker on the back of their car, see him, then call the popo -

That liberal is a bigot. He or she has just give those Republicans cover.

[Demsrule86]

194. He has no idea who called the popo...and the fact he assumes it is a liberal with Hillary

stickers makes me think he is conservative making trouble in an important election year.

[58Sunliner]

323. I find it interesting he assumes it is white women who are his problem.

And lots of businesses appropriate culture. Italian, french, etc....

[Demsrule86]

351. I think it is a BS article...and he is probably GOP...his memes are all GOP memes.

[yardwork]

344. I agree with your points here. I definitely see the farmer's point, but he's using stereotypes too.

Did a white woman in yoga pants with a Hillary sticker and a Coexist sticker actually call the cops on him?

Or is he making that up to illustrate a point? His point is valid but I notice that the example he gives carries a lot of cultural stereotypes itself.

We aren't going to solve the problem of

bigotry by exchanging one target for another.

You're making good points.

[Baitball Blogger]

117. I think his opinion makes sense.

I know a lot of people who might think they're liberal because of their Democratic or Independent leanings, which in some places is still pretty progressive for the places they live in, but there is a difference between good and great. In other words, they know how to stay within "socially acceptable" boundaries. They won't stick their necks out publicly to show support for someone who is being rail-roaded. Those bumper stickers are about as radical as they're going to get.

And, I think it is understandable for minorities to get exasperated with these kind of Liberals, especially when the high profiled ones in conservative areas love the label, but don't walk the line, unless there's some profit in it.

That said, I think it's a good article for thought.

[Demsrule86]

195. More exasperated than with the alt right? I find that questionable.

[Baitball Blogger]

199. I think we all can multi-task when it comes to opinions.

His opinion criticizing Liberals does not necessarily mean he absolutely trusts alt-right. It's humanly possible to hold both opinions We won't know unless we ask the question.

[tblue37]

137. Maybe we could walk and chew gum at the same time. As a black man being harassed

all the time by pervasive racism, including that which is perpetrated by white liberals, he is clearly right that both forms of racism must be confronted and dealt with.

Big feel-good gestures must not blind us to the role even liberals play in maintaining the status quo of institutionalized racism.

[Demsrule86]

231. My daughter dates a wonderful young man who is Black so I do understand.

It is getting serious ...and I am hoping for some Grand-kids! I think they may be engaged by Christmas... There are so many racist scum buckets out there...but this piece could have been written by any right winger...it is how they view democrats and race. I have been followed around in Sears when I went with my friend Elisia who had way more money and dressed better than I did ...but her color made her suspicious...I know racism exists...but attacking liberals as being worse than the alt-right...just doesn't fit. I think this guy is a GOP.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

227. I fully agree

Are we saints? No and most us don't claim to be. In my view, this guy's ire is being fired in the wrong direction.

[Demsrule86]

230. I have to wonder when he repeats GOP memes...

I am going to ask my cousin who knows who everyone around there is ...

[Progressive dog]

11. The confederate flag is a racist and traitorous symbol nt

[Bucky]

24. "a piece of cloth with a certain pattern on it. It isn't racism"

Wow. You give no weight to the message it sends that the celebration of a slavery-based culture is unamerican? These symbols aren't being stolen in the middle of the night; they're being removed at the conclusion of long and sometimes painful debate and reflection within each community that makes this transition. The fact that it's a grassroots movement means everything here. Don't underestimate the impact of that change & discussion on social attitudes.

[TheBlackAdder]

30. The problem is that most of the idiots flying them don't know they're flying the wrong one.

[IronLionZion]

35. And it's even more obvious for people up north who don't have any southern heritage

and insist on displaying the flag as much as they can.

[Wounded Bear]

71. It's not about individuals flying a flag or celebrating a Confederate icon...

It's about the government doing so. People are free to display such things, but having them in the public square and maintained with public funds is a bit much, don't you think?

[Adrahil]

103. The Nazi flag is a piece of cloth with a certain pattern on it.

It IS fucking racism.

I don't give a shit if it changes your opinion.

[IronLionZion]

170. Ironically the swastika is a Hindu symbol to ward off evil spirits

until the Nazis ruined it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

157. LOL. he's not saying overt racism is better. sad that you think a flag of treachery and racism is

your flag. lol.

[steve2470]

207. The confederates went to war to PRESERVE SLAVERY!!!!!!!

Wow. Yes, it symbolizes racism. Try telling black people your opinion, to their face.

[IronLionZion]

251. Why The Confederate Battle Flag Is Even More Racist Than You Think

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/confederate-flag-racist_n_7639788.html

Southern states only started using it frequently to protest civil rights and integration in the 1950's and 60's. It was used by the Dixiecrats to oppose Truman and mainstream Democrats' including civil rights as a plank in the party platform in 1948.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)#1956_flag

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_flag

[RobinA]

343. Actually,

I didn't say the Confederate flag wasn't racist, I said it wasn't racism. You can develop a weapon that at the press of a button would eliminate every racist symbol from the country, but it would have no effect whatsoever on racism. But have at it, take down flags and other symbols. After that doesn't work maybe we can get past symbols and talk about the real problem.

Like the man said, taking down flags is the easy part.

[IronLionZion]

348. Communication is a critical component in change

so removing symbols can seem superficial now but have a profound effect on improving the morale of future societies where children didn't grow up seeing it.

History should be taught in schools and accurately represented. The point I was making is that these symbols were put up a lot more recently than people think. And they were deliberately put up to promote hate and intimidation, rather than heritage. That history has been lost on many who use the symbols today.

Symbols have meaning and can be very powerful as that meaning varies among people who have had different experiences and perspectives and interpret them in different ways. There are entire fields of study with people who get PhDs in symbolism used by various cultures and societies.

[WellDarn]

3. K&R

[retrowire]

5. Why are we calling non liberals, liberals? Nt

[FSogol]

23. Election results Albemarle County

http://results.elections.virginia.gov/vaelections/2016%20November%20General/Site/Locality/ALBEMARLE%20COUNTY/Index.html

[ExciteBike66]

33. According to the OP, the women had Hillary stickers on their German SUVs

but the election data isn't really helpful, beyond telling us there is a 70% chance the women did not vote for Trump...

[retrowire]

44. Who you vote for doesn't make you liberal

This proves nothing.

We're miscommunicating the word "liberal" to our disadvantage.

[Demsrule86]

174. No it doesn't...those who did not vote for Hillary are not liberal...

no exceptions.

[stevenleser]

329. Those familiar with stats will note you are committing what's called an Ecological Fallacy

"An example of ecological fallacy is the assumption that a population average has a simple interpretation when considering likelihoods for an individual."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy

Even though that county went for Hillary, we can't make any statistically valid assumptions about the ideology and party membership of the individuals who may have done what the article suggests, with the possible exception of the one person who is said that they had a Hillary bumper sticker on their car.

[Caliman73]

138. You are skating close to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

The reality is that racial prejudice and institutional racism exists and affects all circles including liberals. There is no harm in looking at your own bias, even as you participate in activism against obvious targets. Unless you are saying that this man is just lying and has not experienced calls to the police from his neighbors who appear to support liberal causes, then I am not understanding the need to deny the information.

[retrowire]

141. I'm just speaking english

lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə rəl/Submit
adjective
1.
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
"they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
2.
(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
synonyms: wide-ranging, broad-based, general
"a liberal education"

Now how could one be a racist and fit any of that?

This is miscommunicating the meaning of the word. And it gives those on the right the ability to smear actual liberals with it.

[Caliman73]

148. In a perfect world yes.

So anyone that holds any traditional ideas about anything is not liberal then. Like President Obama who chooses to follow an organized religion rather than explore atheism or non traditional religions.

Again, when you challenge the assertion based on "purity" then you are engaging in the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. A liberal couldn't have certain attitudes that are not quite as liberal as other, otherwise that person is not a true liberal.

Liberalism like anything else comes in different shades and strengths. We need to be open to all possibilities correct? Even the possibility that we have have to look into and challenge our own ideas and biases. That is part of being liberal. Hopefully the people that have engaged in that behavior with this man, will look at themselves and ask what they can do to make the situation better.

[retrowire]

154. Maybe it's just best to drop labels altogether nt

[Caliman73]

191. We need lables

Labels are heuristic devices that help us to organize the world. It is impossible for humans to process every bit of information that comes in through our senses so we use categories, schemas, stereotypes, and other forms of filtering and simplification.

What we all need to do is try to be flexible, understand ourselves as best we can, and strive to be decent to our fellow human being.

I am a person of color. I have experienced racism and bigotry, have been hurt by it, and have fought against it. I also know that I was brought up with prejudiced beliefs that were present in my family. Some people say that people of color are more sensitive to racial bias and less prone to it, but that is simply not true and I can attest to that. I have to remind myself and question myself with regard to my attitudes about race, gender, sexual orientation, and other things. I try to do that regularly but sometimes I fail. What makes the difference between people who are liberal and who are conservative is that liberals, as you stated, are "open" to the idea that we need to be constantly growing. I know what is inside me, sometimes however, I get surprised by my reactions to things and I have to go back and figure out why I did, said, or thought something.

It is hard work to confront subtle things in yourself when there are blaring signs out there displayed by others. It is easy for me to see a person with a Confederate Flag and say, "that guy is straight up racist". It is harder for me to ask myself why I tensed up when I saw those two young Black men walking in my direction, or why I feel the need to help a woman who looks like she might be struggling with a bag, but not do the same for a man.

[retrowire]

204. You've made excellent points

And I'm happy to have conversed about this with you.

Damn good point about labels. It cannot be avoided.

[Caliman73]

206. the fact that we can have disagreements and converse is great

I think that it proves our point. Being liberal is not about being perfect, but about understanding that we need to be open and strive to improve, even if we know that it is hard work.

I enjoyed the discussion as well.

[retrowire]

209. Yes!

[WinkyDink]

337. Well, we don't know this man or his motives, do we?

[Caliman73]

364. No we do not

Which is why we should not assume that he is some conservative trying to damage the reputation of liberals. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt until he shows us clearly that he has sinister motives.

[Demsrule86]

6. This is a 'they all do it thread' and it is nonsense.

I fail to see why posting an article like this on a Democratic site is helpful...we may not be perfect but...we are not like the GOP and taking down those monuments sends a message...I dispute this article...you have to start somewhere.

[mountain grammy]

15. I agree.

[Demsrule86]

177. I think the most telling thing is his description of the women with Hillary stickers...

that is a GOP meme...so I think this is a hit piece against liberals written in order to help the GOP and Trump.

[kcr]

184. Yes. That and his stance on the Confederate flag. I'm with you on this one.

I suspect he's a conservative who's happy to blame things disproportionately on liberals.

[Demsrule86]

192. Even the word liberal which I wear as a brand of honor is in general a disparaging word in GOP

circles. The entire thing reads like a piece written by a GOP person.

[kcr]

210. It does.

Whatever his politics actually are, it certainly seems to read that way. I'm just not going to agree with anyone, regardless of their race or gender, who thinks that women in yoga pants are more of a problem than people like Richard Spencer. Give me a break. He actually had the seeds of a good point, because talking about issues systemically is powerful and we don't do that enough in America. But then he switches it. Women in yoga pants aren't the problem, even if they voted for Hillary. If he'd kept it at the systemic level, he would have been fine. That's a good conversation that is much needed. Instead, we got a confused mess and I think that's why it looked like GOP bothsides-are-the-same talkinpoints crap.

[Honeycombe8]

295. You know, it's the oddest thing. When I put on my yoga pants...

I have this strong urge to call the police on the first black person I see!

[Honeycombe8]

292. Oh, that hadn't occurred to me. Could be. nt

[kcr]

163. Agreed.

And this absolutely will be fodder for the Right.

[Honeycombe8]

296. +1. nt

[Kentonio]

7. Until very recently, the removal of flags and statues was far from 'easy'

The fact that it's 2017 and the supposedly easy battles are still being fought, shows there's an awfully long way still to go.

[treestar]

8. Does he have any proof about these women in

yoga pants who wear pro-Hillary t-shirts?

[Demsrule86]

10. That says repug to me...the wording and the hatred of Hillary.

[treestar]

12. Yep. Can't picture a Hillary supporter

or any liberal calling the cops seeing a black man at work. I wouldn't.

[forjusticethunders]

56. Some will. Society has conditioned people to associate "Black Men" and "scary" for a long time.

Particularly with white women, in which "Black men", "scary", and "rape" are associated.

[Demsrule86]

175. This is BS...it only serves to help the right...and no I don't believe any person

with Hillary stickers called the cops...he doesn't know that for sure either...the fact that he says it shows where is loyalties lie...guess.

[WellDarn]

182. I don't have to guess

His loyalties lie with people who look like him. His loyalties lie with his children.

Do you want us to "guess" where your loyalties lie?

[Demsrule86]

193. He won't help his kids by helping elect GOP types...I think he is a fraud....and a conservative.

My loyalties like with family, country and then party.

[WellDarn]

200. Oh good, a lecture n/t

[Demsrule86]

333. Welcome to DU...

[forjusticethunders]

331. The Right derives its power from racism.

To address it in our own ranks helps to fight the racism that gives the Right power. I agree that very, very few liberals hold the level of hatred and bigotry as conservatives. But we live in a racist society that inundates us with racist messages (I mean for real *I* think racist and anti-black thoughts at times) and at times even the most liberal "colorblind" person will get scared and jumpy around a black person without knowing why - they've been raised and conditioned to think "black man" = "scary".

[Demsrule86]

332. Baloney demonizing Democrats weakens the Democratic Party and our ability to fight the right on

racism and a whole bunch of important issues...why would anyone be proud to vote for a Democratic Party populated with 'racist liberals' ...you want to see the results of this purification look at how many don't join the Democratic party and don't bother to vote because...the parties are the same...but they are not the same. This is a bullshit they all do it article and may have been written by a GOP operative.

[Bucky]

73. sorry, but racial prejudice burrows into all corners of white society.

Being liberal doesn't magically wash away a century and a half of Jim Crow racist programming in white subculture. It's not a binary switch we turn off by voting for an Obama or a Clinton.

[Demsrule86]

178. Yeah, the parties all the same why even bother ....sarcasm.

Let's attack the only party who believes in racial equality. The Democrats are the ones who gave us civil rights...I doubt anyone but Johnson could have done it.

[treestar]

308. It's not so much voting for them

as being with them on the issues generally. The Republican party is now so attractive to racists it is hard to believe racists wouldn't go with them.

Liberals could have some racism left in them, but calling the cops upon seeing a black farmer isn't what they would do.

[IronLionZion]

82. That's exactly why someone had to share their story

things happen every day that some people just can't picture. We all have our own experiences.

[Demsrule86]

179. And we all tell our own 'lies' I don't buy this story...I really don't

I should add my family is from that area...I will ask my cousin about the author...see what she knows.

[NickB79]

238. I have family who voted for Obama AND Hillary who I'm sure would do exactly that

It's the small-town mindset you see in rural areas where most of your neighbors are white like you. You should have heard my mom and sister talking about the busload of "black city kids" that stopped at the Burger King one day on their way to a basketball conference. You'd think they had rushed into the place screaming about raping and murdering every white woman they saw by the way they described it.

Other times, they talk so much shit about the Somali's that are moving into the area for work, you'd almost expect them to put on white sheets and pointy hats any minute. Yet they still voted for Obama and Hillary.

There are racist liberals, and the numbers are not insignificant. As the farmer in the OP stated, it's not a "I'll murder your entire family", KKK-style racism, but a more subtle form that lives on stereotypes and only comes out in company that the speaker feels is safe to be themselves around. My family is perfectly nice to my non-white wife, but I have caught them from time to time giving that sideways glance and low whisper between each other from across the room, or stopping mid-sentence as they realized they were about to say something they would never say in front of a non-white person.

[treestar]

309. I agree, people can be complex

They may say things like that but still hold opinions that black people should have equal voting rights, etc.

[yardwork]

347. I've seen this kind of prejudice too. I agree with the farmer about that.

In my experience, the people who carry these types of prejudices usually vote Republican.

I'm a little bothered by the very detailed stereotypical description he gave of the people he assumes called the police on him.

[spooky3]

13. Agree--sexism is just as bad as racism, but this guy

Apparently doesn't understand that.

[WellDarn]

312. Honest question

Do you really believe that sexism is as bad as racism?

No judgment either way, just curious.

Tx

[FLPanhandle]

19. The irony is rich

His own racist and sexist attitude was on full display there.

[Demsrule86]

180. Isn't odd that this is so similar to the GOP meme about how Democrats are the real 'racists'.

[NewJeffCT]

57. I don't remember seeing many Hillary t-shirts

nor many Trump ones, for that matter, here in Connecticut. I remember some yard signs for both, but rarely any personal items.

I certainly realize that Democrats aren't 100% perfect when it comes to any social issue and I'm sure incidents like he mentions have happened - it's a big country with over 300 million people after all. However, I find it hard to believe it's all soccer moms in yoga pants and Hillary t-shirts

[La Lioness Priyanka]

159. yes, you should trust our lived experiences more than your own discomfort

at hearing the truth that liberal racism is real, it exists, and it comes from all quarters.

[joeybee12]

14. Broad brushing a group of people is ridiculous

Any good points this guy may have wanted to make are lost in his stereotypin everyone

[LovingA2andMI]

29. He's Telling The Truth....

The Brush Is "Broad" only if one believes they are a part of the wall being painted. Otherwise, they should be a part of the unpainted wall.

[joeybee12]

121. You might think what you wrote is logical but.its not

Basically you're accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of racism.

[LovingA2andMI]

124. I Do Think That....

However, what I wrote here is logical and what the African-American farmer wrote on his Facebook post about his Experiences is logical -- because African-Americans are a logical ethnic group of individuals.

[Bucky]

75. His prejudices against white liberals carry as much overreach as white prejudices do

[LovingA2andMI]

90. Really?

Have you lived his experiences in his hometown?

[Bucky]

96. Look, he's said "white liberals" not "some white liberals" are racist.

It's not that different that the sweet white ladies with Hillary stickers calling the cops on him for, as he put it, "farming while black". It's a sad fact of humanity that just about everybody carries some prejudices, including the victims of prejudice themselves. So, yes, sweeping generalizations, by definition, involve rhetorical overreach.

[LovingA2andMI]

102. Actually, it's...

Based on HIS EXPERIENCE in his hometown. Now, you have every right to dismiss his experience instead of making a small attempt to understand it and have a bit of empathy, however that does not make HIS EXPERIENCE or the way he chose to use the power of a keyboard and Facebook to express such EXPERIENCES, any less valid.

Uncomfortable Conversations are not pretty and yes, EVERYONE has racial biases, However, the minority does not control or dictate a way of life (including living in silence to appease the feelings of the majority) -- for the majority. This frequency happens in reverse.

[joeybee12]

122. exactly

Take a look at some discussion boards
This guy is the trumpanzees new hero.

[LovingA2andMI]

136. Maybe you should scroll down the thread

to post #120 then think about your statement here.

[joeybee12]

147. Maybe not

Same discussion as always

[LovingA2andMI]

152. Well, well....

And folks don't think they have racial biases and can equally label themselves Progressives.

Moving on, as the example, the Farmer was speaking about, is beyond obvious, don't ya think?

[joeybee12]

150. You don't get it and you don't want to

He was calling out all liberal all white liberals, no one who generalized like that has a valid point. And if a black person mugged a white person and that white person based his view on all black people from that experience would that also be valid?

[LovingA2andMI]

162. Actually, yes, I do...

So, let's break down your point while in an earlier thread you refused to acknowledge this mixed race family (remember that)? Don't worry, I will cross-link that post because it's important to have the full context of your reply to various points in this thread were your biases have been challenged by the minority.

Your question:

"And if a black person mugged a white person and that white person based his view on all black people from that experience would that also be valid?"

If a Black Person mugged a White Person and the White Person.....hold up....

First, people are not Black and White. Ethnic groups break down like so: Caucasian-American and African-American.

Back to your "question"...

If an African-American mugged a Caucasian-American and that Caucasian-American based his (guess her view does not matter to your worldview so let's keep going) view on all African-Americans from that experience would that also be valid?

Yes, if they based it off of that one unfortunate experience. Hopefully, this Caucasian-American MALE OR FEMALE would equally have many other POSITIVE experiences with African-Americans to know the crime that was committed by one person of a homogenetic group, does not represent the entire ethnic group of individuals.

As there are many Caucasian-Americans who show and display EMPATHY with the experiences African-Americans have lived on a daily, weekly, monthly basis in a land where they are the minority by numbers.

And based on that empathy they can understand and sympathize that they (Caucasian-Americans in General) have been blessed to not have been treated over centuries here in America with a Second-Class Status and equally expected due to that Second-Class Status to be thankful for any political breadcrumbs threw their way by others in some in the Majority who refuses to knowledge their EXPERIENCE and show a bit of empathy.

Hope I answered your question, directly.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

160. lol no.

[Quayblue]

16. K&R

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. Truth hurts, IronLionZion.

K&R.

[dawg]

18. Finally, someone willing to speak out about the true villains in our society ...

liberal women in yoga pants!

Yes, there is some problematic residual racism with white liberals. But posts like his represent a massive false equivalency.

[LovingA2andMI]

31. Post Like These....

Represent Uncomfortable Conversations folks like to avoid in the "false equivalency" that racial biases do not "exists" among each and every classification group.

Except, that is BS because they do.

[Ms. Toad]

43. Agree.

I'm part of a very liberal group that is currently engagingin an institutional racism assessment - because our African American members finally said "Enough" and called us on how far we have to go. They had been pointing it out before, but we had been ignoring them, convincing ourselves that they were wrong, In fact, responding much as most of the dismissive people in this thread have: (1) Who, me?, and (2) but there are so many bigger things in the wider world - we're too busy addressing the really racist things out there.

[Caliman73]

196. The little things are the hardest.

It is easy to point out the guy with the swastika tattoo or the Confederate flag on his truck and say, that is racist!!

It is much harder to see and accept those unconscious biases that come up to the surface when we are dealing with people who are different that we are, especially if our identity is built on "being better and more sensitive than other people".

It is much easier to say, "Now you are being too sensitive" or "Why are you attacking your allies rather than the 'real enemy'?" Bias and how we respond to racial and cultural differences is a systemic thing, but we have to address it personally before or at least simultaneously as address it systematically.

[True Dough]

93. Also agree

Some of us may be very much aware of subtle forms of racism while others that we consider politically like-minded may be less so. Just because we're not overt, raging racists flying Confederate flags doesn't mean there aren't still lessons to be learned on how to truly treat others fairly and equivalently.

[IronLionZion]

41. Why deal with any issues at all?

Someone somewhere else in the world is dealing with far worse, right?

[dawg]

51. Fine.

Go ahead and promote the narrative that there really isn't much difference between white liberals and deplorables. See what that gets you.

[LovingA2andMI]

60. What Will It "Get Him (or her)"?

The whole line of "See what that gets you" has an obvious hint of "sit down and shut up" tone to it.

[dawg]

62. When you start a conversation, you can't just expect everyone to automatically agree with you.

I think posts like this are very damaging to the well-being of minorities in this country, because they give intellectual cover to voters that want to vote Republican but still have a twinge of guilt about the abject racism of that party.

But if *both* sides do it ...

[LovingA2andMI]

70. "well-being of minorities in this country".....

Who says Minorities need "well-being" and not the truth? Who says Minorities need to "sit down and shut up" regarding their experiences in their neck of the woods?

Find an Uncomfortable Conversations Meeting/Gathering in a town near you. If your local Democratic BLACK CAUCUS has not scheduled one yet, ASK FOR IT.

Maybe, just maybe it would Enlighten your world view. Maybe....

[dawg]

78. Maybe having the Republicans in charge for eight more years will enlighten *your* world view.

See, this is why we lose.

White liberals aren't pure enough for the AA community.

Mainstream Democrats aren't pure enough for the Bernie or Buster's.

Christian Democrats aren't pure enough for the atheists and agnostics.

2nd Amendment Democrats aren't pure enough for anybody!

Meanwhile, the other side stands firm and wins elections. And minorities get even more disenfranchised. And a generation of AA and Latino men gets imprisoned in a for-profit prison system.

I'm not saying racism isn't a thing with white liberals. But it's a mote versus a plank kind of thing. And any attempt to portray it otherwise, no matter how well-intentioned, just plays into the hands of our enemies.

[LovingA2andMI]

84. "White liberals aren't pure enough for the AA community."

See the rabbit hole you are trying to dive down into....and this poster will not dive into with you. It's SO obvious.

With that -- it's time to move on with a block as some, refuse to see their obvious racial biases and believe deflection instead of reflection is the best way to confront Uncomfortable Conversations.

The Black Farmer meanwhile was RIGHT-ON-POINT -- about many folks. Even the ones who refuses to see their false equivalencies.

[dawg]

87. Whatever.

[Tarc]

20. The "he must be lying!" type of responses feed into the racism the man is talking about

Yes, men and women who are perfectly progressive/liberal on many issues can do things that are perceived as racist by persons of color. If you cannot recognize that this sort of thing happens within our own circles and if you think it is just a problem "over there" i.e. for Tea Party conservatives, then you are a part of the problem.

[7962]

79. Its amazing how many dont get it. Its the "NIMBY" mindset.

ANY story portraying someone who is a "progressive" person doing or saying anything racist/violent/misogynist/etc, is automatically labeled as a "GOP plant" or "false flag" or some other such nonsense. I see it all the time. Its just as bad as those who see a racist or sexist behind every bush.

[zipplewrath]

164. Get this all the time

Wife ran a program for years for pregnant teens, 15 - 22 years old actually. Mostly parenting stuff and just general support. Invariably her "liberal" friends would ask, "are most of your clients black?" She had to patiently explain to them that, no, white teenage girls had unprotected sex. And since the demographics here are predominately white, her group was (shock!) predominately white.

I'm not sure it was the original authors point, but the reality is that the vast majority of people that consider themselves "liberal" are roughly what this guy is describing. I don't have a good expression for it. In politics we use the "in name only" moniker. One might call it liberal in their heart, but not their head or something. It's akin to the pious person who wears their religion on their sleeve, right up until it affects their wallet. We can all believe something, and yet have huge blind spots in our own lives. Obama was against gay marriage before he "evolved". None of us are intellectually perfect.

That said, I might also have discussed with the original author, that what he witness in many people was them "thinking globally, and acting locally". No, these people aren't perfect. But their intentions are much better than Mr. Spencer's. And the original authors life is vastly better today because of the actions of imperfect people like this than they would be if the Richard Spencers of the world would have had their way. Yes, there is much to be done by many of us to improve things. And PART of that is confronting the Richard Spencers of the world.

But yes, then too, we can only go so far without confronting our own short comings as well.

[Demsrule86]

181. He hits all the GOP BS memes...he may very well be lying.

[Tarc]

205. You are a part of the problem

[treestar]

349. Sounds like an endless unsolvable problem

Even the liberals are still racist.

So who calls the cops because there is someone black they don't know in the neighborhood? This is what George Zimmerman did, so it's like saying he could have been a liberal.

Do liberals tend to call cops because they see someone they don't know? Sounds more like small town red state stuff. It might be more believable had he been in some small town in a red state.

If he is a "farmer" he also would not fit the stereotypes we would have of the dangerous black man. Our bigotry is more likely to be directed like Zimmerman's to the young black man in a hoodie or whatever other stereotypes we have of who is dangerous. (I would be more afraid of a white biker than an older black man - that's where my bigotry tends).

[Blue_Tires]

21. He must be new to Albemarle...

Because it used to be much, much worse up until relatively recently...

And while I am in no way excusing it, I'm betting dollars to yen that those nervous White women in yoga pants with ‘I’m with her’ and ‘Coexist’ stickers on their German SUVs are recent transplants like him, either associated with the university or more likely part of the nuveau riche trying to get a slice of the booming local wine/orchard industry... Even one of Trump's spoiled brats got his own winery not that long ago...

[Demsrule86]

183. Albermale went for Hillary...my family is from the area.

My cousin went through desegregation in Charlottesville and was friends with Black kids. I went to High School in Connecticut...we had three Black people in the entire school...not until I moved back to Virginia did I know any people of color...and my cousin is as liberal as they come. This entire piece is one big stereotype that conveniently hits all the GOP memes about Liberals being the real racists. This looks like a hit piece against liberals.

[Blue_Tires]

233. My dad was born and raised in C'ville (segregated high school)

and my grandparents lived there until their deaths... Buried together out in Esmont.

I guess I'd need a bit more context for the farmer's rant... While he does have a legit point I do agree he's bordering on regurgitating the old "limousine liberals" astroturf e-mail from the Clinton era...

But then again he might be totally in the right... There's no liberals like "new money" liberals, and C'ville has been hit with a tsunami of new money in recent years...

[Demsrule86]

234. My cousins all went to Charolottesville

except one who went to a smaller school near Barboursville. The area has change a great deal since I was a small child...where in the 80's segregated wading pools could still be found.

[ProfessorPlum]

22. Subtle racism. Because that's the most awful form of racism right now.

Wake up and smell the White Supremacists, Chris Newman.

[IronLionZion]

25. Conservative racists know they're racist, and are often proud of it or don't care

and are easy to spot from a mile away as they spew out verbal diarrhea often.

It's easy to think of someone else as the problem. It's a bit harder to admit the problems on our side. We see countless threads attacking our side for not being liberal enough, or we are too sexist. So why is it different for racism?

Personally, I see it on any thread about h1b visas when someone decides to talk about the nature of Indian workers. And there are people who pop up on threads about what sort of person is a dangerous threat who is likely to do violence to you. And a lot of folks on our side still make the assumption that the default American is white and that brown people are probably immigrants.

For the record, Chris Newman's wife Annie is white and they have two mixed daughters and a dog. Not sure about her pants or what stickers she has on her vehicle but she does wear very liberal looking eyeglasses. They have a very organic farm. Conservatives wouldn't have an organic farm would they?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Full text of his facebook post:
A message to Charlottesville about Lee Park from your local Black farmer:

I know some folks are really feeling themselves about this whole Love Trumps Hate counter-rally to Richard Spencer's punch-worthy shenanigans in Lee Park. I'd like to appreciate it, but frankly I just don't.

I've lived in several cities and visited many more before Charlottesville. I like this town for its natural beauty, it's small size, the friendliness of its people, and its food. But folks, here's something else: Charlottesville is by far the most aggressively segregated place I've ever lived in or visited. And that seems a strange thing to have to say about a town that hosts a public university.

I say "aggressively" for two reasons. One, because of how assertive police (and the citizens who summon them) are here with racial profiling. It got so bad in 2014 - 2015 that I stopped renting farmland on estates where I could be easily seen from the road, and I stopped making food deliveries into wealthier neighborhoods because of how often police would "happen by" and sometimes even question me five or ten minutes after I got a strange look from a passerby (usually someone jogging, but occasionally someone in a car). I'm not a paranoid kinda guy, but this happened way too often to be a coincidence.

It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with "I'm with Her" and "Coexist" stickers on their German SUVs.

Second is the sheer degree of cultural appropriation going on with businesses in the city proper. It's little things - e.g. shops and other businesses incorporating wide swaths of hiphop culture into their branding while having not a single Black owner, partner, employee, or vendor. And those businesses are KILLING IT here. This is a town where Blackness advances White-owned brands and subjects Black-owned businesses to inspection by law enforcement.

Do you really think that problem comes from people like Richard Spencer?

Check out C'Ville Weekly's Instagram feed when you get a moment, and try not to notice that the few depictions of Black people are limited to sports, singing, criminal justice, or single parenthood. White people, meanwhile, are represented as political activists, chefs, cogs in the gig economy, musicians, dancers, people who get married, visual artists, songwriters, architects, landscapers, thespians, artistic directors, wedge-heel-wearing rugby players, dog lovers, farmers, firefighters, and people who play with their kids in cul de sacs.

Richard Spencer is not the editor of C'Ville Weekly.

Truth is, as a Black dude, I'm far less bothered by the flag wavers in this picture than this town's progressives assuming its race problem has nothing to do with them. The former is a visual inconvenience. The latter could leave my daughters without a father.

So please, put down the candles and instead ask yourself: why is my city like this? Why is life like this for Black people in my wonderful city? The answer is a lot closer to home than Richard Spencer or Lee Park.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

45. Judging from the responses here, it looks like you struck a nerve. nt

[IronLionZion]

48. It needed to be done

[Tarc]

63. The responses you're getting are enlightening

[True Dough]

109. I applaud you for doing it

You're absolutely right. When the "enemy" is as abhorrent as the ReThugs, it's easy to sit back and slide into self-righteousness because "we" are morally and ethically superior in many regards. That doesn't mean there are not a multitude of areas where we can still make improvements -- and subtle racism is definitely one of those areas.

[knightmaar]

81. That's a lot clearer ...

... than the original snippets.

I'm still bothered by a person who doesn't connect state-sponsored statues and flags with institutional racism, but it's much more clear than the original post.

[LovingA2andMI]

26. Not Just In Charlottesville, Virginia.....

But EVERYWHERE.

What the Farmer described here is EVERYWHERE, ALL OVER THE U.S. Some of these same individuals in the "yoga pants, driving a SUV or German vehicle" with a "Love Trump Hates" sign on the car, also secretly in the corner of the voting booth, voted for Trump -- because they were "pissed off and afraid" of the minor gains African-Americans experienced as a group during President Obama's eight-year term.

The farmer was right-on-point and bless him for saying what we as African-Americans generally know is true.

[BobTheSubgenius]

27. To start with, I'll say I could easily be wrong,

and in no way am I trying to rehash the election. That being said...

This FB message has overtones of the same kind of purity test to which various liberals have been put by putative allies. "If you don't agree with me on every issue, and have this checked every box on this list of values and positions, I might as well vote for a Republican." The idea that, if you're not doing EVERYTHING you could conceivably be doing, you might as well be doing nothing at all.

[Ms. Toad]

50. I don't see a purity test at all.

I see an African American who is saying, this is what makes a difference in my life on a day-to-day basis. It's not the big flashy targets you are focusing on - it is how you treat me.

[knightmaar]

28. I don't get how he knows who calls the cops on him

How does he know it's "white women in yoga pants" driving foreign cars?

That just sounds like a Trump supporter writing in all the characteristics he hates in "East Coast Liberals" or whatever.

I could as easily write "hicks with two teeth left in their mouth, driving coal rolling pick up trucks to their sister-cousin's wedding". That doesn't make such people real.

Also this:

“People are so busy going after that easy fix, going after that Confederate flag, that they’re not doing the hard thing, which is thinking, how did we get here, and how the hell do we dig out of institutional racism,” Newman wrote.

Yeah, uh, bullshit. This sounds like Trump saying, "Who knew racism could be so complicated?!"

We knew. We all knew. And we know one of the ways of fighting institutional racism is to remove state-sponsored displays of racism.

Duh.

[SHRED]

34. Well said

My thoughts also.

[LovingA2andMI]

37. Generalization.....

Who said this Farmer voted for Trump because he took the time to describe his feelings about what he experienced as subtle racism among individuals who would not openly describe themselves as Trump Voters.

The key term is OPENLY. What folks do in the voting booth is always secret.

[knightmaar]

52. Who said that? I certainly didn't.

I said he's basically spouting off a list of things Trump supporters hate, the characteristics they sum up when they talk about their opponents.

He created a stereotype and ran with it to media, blaming "women in yoga pants in German SUVs". I guess having them sipping lattes would have been too much.

I treat statements like that the same way I treat a story from a Texan starting with "This pencil-neck feller from New York .." or an East Coaster's story about this "hick with all of two teeth in his mouth."

[LovingA2andMI]

55. Dismissing HIS experience and HIS feelings....

Please join into an Uncomfortable Conversations Meeting/Gathering in a Town near you. Maybe, just maybe, you might be enlighted a bit by the experience.

Maybe....

[knightmaar]

76. I'm not dismissing his feelings.

I'm asking how he knows.

I'm also wondering why we're allowing his sexist stereotypes about snotty women in yoga pants to go without argument.

Do we all realize what a Trump-style cliche that is? Come on, now.

[LovingA2andMI]

95. It is HIS Experience...

And you are dismissing it. Plain and simple.

Now if that makes the situation easier for you to deal with so be it.

However, his EXPERIENCES is HIS EXPERIENCES and unless you have walked a mile in his mocassins, can you judge what "world-view" which you are trying to bag as a "Trump-style cliche" world view, HIS DAILY EXPERIENCES are drawn from?

[ProfessorGAC]

105. You've Now Gone Around The Bend

"his EXPERIENCES is HIS EXPERIENCES" defines every one of those blinded by the right idiots that voted for "it". They feel left behind so they voted against the status quo. We here, all agree what a grievous mistake they made. But, doesn't that just dismiss their feelings and their experiences. And, do we care about that?
Some of those people actually probably did see a true major decline on their standard of living. While we can demonstrate that the causes had nothing to do with the EPA, or trade agreements, or immigration, they went on "their experiences".
You're not going to defend their mistake with the same logic, are you?

[LovingA2andMI]

112. It's The Point....

His experiences which many African-Americans have dealt with on a daily, weekly or monthly basis with those who might call themselves Progressive.

Meanwhile, we vote for Democrats in the majority for the one chance in a President Barack Obama will come once in a lifetime to make OUR LIVES in AMERICA (Yes, the Words OUR LIVES was used on purpose) a little easier for a time period, knowing HE is the FIRST President (and might be the last) that truly UNDERSTANDS our complex experience in America because he has walked in OUR moccasins. We hold FLOTUS Michelle Obama high because we know she gets the EXPERIENCE (Will Not Apologize If The Word EXPERIENCE Gets Under One's Skin -- Because It Is What It Is).

We hope that another Democratic President will show empathy because that is all we can ask for if they are not African-American too, into our experience instead of dismissing it and believing our vote in guaranteed because they are "all we have" as the "other side" is unbearable.

Until you, who are likely are a Caucasian American - have actually walked a mile in the complex moccasins of being African-American in America -- you and others dismissing the African-American dynamic over and over again in this thread is downright, insulting on its face.

[Ms. Toad]

131. I'm sorry, and embarassed

that the (presumably white) reactions in this thread are predictably more focused on political stragegy, and troll hunting, than on listening to and learning from the lived experience of those thrown under the bus in the service of that strategy

[LovingA2andMI]

135. Thank you....

And no need to apologize as you have shown empathy in this thread. We truly appreciate your empathy.

[ProfessorGAC]

166. I Dismissed Exactly What?

Putting words in my mouth is no way to win a debate.

[LovingA2andMI]

168. The "Debate", you described...

Was over on my behalf. The point was made and done.

[ProfessorGAC]

171. How Convenient!

Back at you. You wish to depend on flawed logic to make that point, have at it.

[LovingA2andMI]

189. My Logic...

Is PERFECTLY fine. Thank you, very much and the point was beyond made, done, finish and completely, complete -- wrapped up in a lovely Blue Bow. Have a lovely day.

[ProfessorGAC]

302. Do You Do Stand Up?

You're hilarious!!!
Or delusional!
You pick

[LovingA2andMI]

319. How about You're Delusional....

And with that, this is a straight up useless course of back and forth. You suffer from a deep state of delusions and extreme case of undeserved privilege. I picked BOTH conditions for you.

And with that....goodbye and a well-deserved BLOCK!

[kcr]

221. His subtle sexism regarding the women in yoga pants statement should be dismissed. Sorry.

Because I doubt multiple women in yoga pants with Hillary stickers on a specific model of car called the cops on him. I think his choice of group to nail for this type of racism is an interesting one. Someone else mentioned in this thread that this is a very specific sexist stereotype all its own and he nailed it. He doesn't come across very liberal himself in invoking it. It was a very poor choice on his part.

[LovingA2andMI]

229. How Do You Know The Experiences Or What Is Seen In His Town???

This is his truth, his experience. His perception wrong or right, are based on that view. Also, the overwriting issue is subtle racism and not Yoga Pants. Also, how do you know how many times law enforcement was called on him and by whom?

Also, re-read the post (the African-American Farmer Post) because nowhere did he mention a "Hillary Sticker". That was your perception at play.

[kcr]

232. Is His Experience and Truth the Only One, Ever and Ever for All Time???????

Is this the first black person you've ever listened to or something?

[LovingA2andMI]

239. What a disgusting reply....

Seriously. What makes you think we are not AFRICAN-AMERICAN (the color "Black" does not exist on people - #FYI) and have not talked on the regular to other AFRICAN-AMERICAN people?

Maybe you need to quit this line of reply, while you're seriously not ahead. Your PRIVILEGE is showing. Rather large at this point.

[WellDarn]

241. Well

other than for the fact that I have always considered myself to be "black" (but I hear you), I think you've probably hit the nail on the head.

This string has become terrifying.

[LovingA2andMI]

250. Yes, it has...

Beyond terrifying and clearly demonstrates the African-American Farmers' point, and then some.

[kcr]

243. Yet you are certainly free to make assumptions about who you reply to

And seem to think you have it all figured out! Good for you!

[LovingA2andMI]

248. Based SOLELY on your misinformed reply...

Meanwhile, deal with your PRIVILEGE as we certainly have no further time, want or need in the least to engage in this low-level of discussion.

[kcr]

252. Based on your treatment of other people in this thread n/t

[LovingA2andMI]

254. Sad....

Extremely Sad. BLOCK!

[kcr]

260. Oh well. Other people will see what I have to say

And that is Confederate memorials are still symbols of racism, and they should still be taken down. My opinion of that isn't going to change because one man says so. You can screech all you want about erasing his experiences and it doesn't change that. I think it's a shame he had to bring Confederate statues and women in yoga pants and ruin an otherwise much needed conversation.

[Nitram]

47. He may very well have seen a housewife nervously retreat into her house shortly before the cops...

...showed up. It is a common occurrence all over America.

[Coventina]

61. "housewife"? Was she wearing a housecoat and slippers, with curlers in her hair?

On edit: If we're calling out subtle racism, we should be calling out subtle sexism as well.

[Nitram]

68. In the middle of the day, a woman who is still at home is a housewife.

Particularly in certain neighborhoods. What is your problem? Can't you imagine this situation? My job takes me around the city during the day and I see housewives in tony neighborhoods all the time. There's a lot of money in Charlottesville.

[Coventina]

77. Wow. Stereotype much? Is a single woman who lives alone and works night shift

a "housewife"?

Because that's my best friend.

I am a college professor. I don't work very often at the campus in the summer. Does that make me a "housewife"?

You don't see the inherent sexism of the term "housewife"?

A woman is never married to a HOUSE.

[Nitram]

85. I can forgive the man's use of the term "housewife" in the context of the nervous nellie...

...who calls the cops on him because he is black and she assumes if he's in her neighborhood he must be up to no good. You are missing the point of the post entirely, but you're a professor, so I guess you are used to controlling the conversation. The man recounted a common example of racism he has encountered in real life. Don't cheapen it, don't deny him the right to speak out because of what you take as a fatal error in his terminology.

[Coventina]

91. Oh, so if I point out sexism I'm being disruptive. Got it.

I never once denied the truth of the man's complaints.

I was only pointing out that sexism is just as deeply rooted and just as much as a problem and just as easy to overlook.

Subtle racism / subtle sexism - it's two sides of the same ugly coin.

[cwydro]

98. Thank you.

I cannot believe that poster. "Housewife"?

Holy hell.

[Coventina]

99. .

IKR?

[Nitram]

104. Oh, so as a woman people call the police on you because you don't look like you belong in their

neighborhood in the middle of the day? It's not all about you. You don't have to distract from an excellent and needed message by changing the subject. I'm not attacking feminism, I'm suggesting that it might be better to avoid one of the pitfalls of white privilege: always changing the subject to our own personal interest or crusade.

[cwydro]

118. Nice try to dig yourself out of the ugly hole you made for yourself.

Oh my goodness! It's 11 a.m and I'm not at work! I must be a privileged "housewife".

Um, no, Time to get in the car and head to my job.

You are really hilarious.

[Coventina]

129. You are adorable! You sure seem to know all about me and my life experiences.

You've just made a whole heap of assumptions about who I am and what I've experienced.

I thought this thread was all about the dangers of doing that kind of thing?

You used a sexist term, you were called out on it (by more than just me), and by the way, I reread the OP and I don't find that the subject of the OP ever used it, and now you are pointing fingers at me.

[Nitram]

158. The only assumption I made was that you would rather take issue with a stereotyopical term for a

non-working Mom than discuss the very real problems inherent in racism in America today. I apologize for my use of the offensive term. Does that free you up to return to the issue the post so eloquently addressed?

[Coventina]

165. I am in complete agreement with the OP. I think the gentleman's remarks

are probably very much in line with the lived experience of the majority of African-American men.

It is something that we, as citizens of this country, need to address every day of our lives in how we treat each other, and also be always aware of what assumptions our brains are making about the people we meet.

That was my point all along.

I thank you sincerely for your apology.

[Demsrule86]

185. It is a GOP word...would be money this guy is GOP.

[a la izquierda]

92. I'm a university professor.

I'm home a lot during the day because I don't teach all day long.
I guess that makes me a housewife. Except I have an office in my house, so I also work from home.

Sigh. GMAFB.

[Coventina]

97. Just try to not be home in the "middle" of the day.

Then you can avoid the stereotype.

[cwydro]

94. A woman at home in the daytime is a "housewife"?

Ever heard of working from home? Ever heard of shift work?

Hey dude, the Fifties called and they want you back.

[Coventina]

100. LOL!!

[cwydro]

101. Surely you are not as ignorant as this post makes you seem.

You could not be more wrong with your assumptions about "a woman home in the middle of the day."

Cannot believe I read this on DU.

[kcr]

169. Especially if she's wearing yoga pants! :sarcasm:

Come on, now.

[IronLionZion]

53. post 25 has the full text of it

he tells the story of who gave him dirty looks before the cops arrived in wealthy neighborhoods as he was making deliveries

Some people have a picture in their minds of what sort of people belong in such a neighborhood and who does not.

Also some people have a mental picture of who is an organic hippie farmer.

[Ms. Toad]

58. When you observe one event following another consistently,

you make connections about the cause of the second event. We do ourselves no favor when refuse to listen to the voices of people experiencing the racism about what makes a day-to-day difference in their lives.

[kcr]

167. Well said. I will add

that I don't recall anyone advocating for the removal of the statues making the claim that it's the cure-all for racism. I'm suspicious of the motives behind this Huffpost piece based on a Facebook post.

[Skittles]

307. yup

it sounds like BS to me too

[WhiskeyGrinder]

32. People with privilege can't wait to tell the oppressed they're wrong about their experience.

Men telling women that street harassment isn't that big a deal or that pay inequality must be because of their skill level. White people telling black people they're overreacting or focusing on the wrong thing when they talk about racism. The rich telling the poor that they're making the wrong choices and if they'd just stop buying avocado toast, they could afford a house. It shouldn't be this hard for people with privilege to listen without reacting, and yet somehow it is.

[Ms. Toad]

59. As this thread proves.

I'd say, . But it happens too frequently for that reaction.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

65. Yep, it's like clockwork.

[LovingA2andMI]

106. Exactly!!!

Thank you for saying it.

[Quayblue]

119. Yep, somehow it is.

The reactions in this thread are business as usual and why passive aggressive actions such as calling the police on someone who "looks suspicious" is still prevalent, even in the so-called liberal conclaves of America.

I don't care about living in a liberal area, I still had to watch my damn back when I lived there as much as I do around here. I have plenty of stories to tell, but I won't here because of all of the butthurt ....and the propensity of these types to engage in authoritarian behaviors when people call out their shit.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

126. I hear you.

Your stories are important; some audiences just aren't ready to hear. They convince themselves those stories have nothing to do with them so why should they even listen in the first place.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

161. +1

[lunasun]

42. K&R

"Often by people who mean well and don't know or don't want to know they're doing it "

[Nitram]

46. I live in Charlottesville and I read this post on FB.

It hurts, but I believe every word this man writes. We still have a long way to go. That said, I don't think efforts to take down the confederate flag or remove Confederate monuments is wasted. Part of the process is setting the historical record straight and making people more aware.

[IronLionZion]

49. Yup, it's just the beginning. The tip of the iceberg

we've come a very long way from a few decades ago and I'm grateful for that. But we have a long way to go.

[ATL Ebony]

54. I would love to support this famer but his logic is beyond flawed.

“It isn’t Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black,” Newman wrote. “It’s nervous White women in yoga pants with ‘I’m with her’ and ‘Coexist’ stickers on their German SUVs.”

I guess if GOP continues with their plan to remove all humanitarian laws and rules he won't be surprised to find "strange fruit" hanging from his closest tree.

[IronLionZion]

66. Cop killings have been a problem with lots of attention lately

Calling the cops is easier than finding a strong rope and a suitable tree.

[treestar]

346. I don't see why he thinks it is not Richard Spencer

or his ilk.

[IronLionZion]

353. Richard Spencer types wake up thinking how to send us to the gas chamber

Other types would rather make a quick phone call, and then take their hybrid car to buy a soy latte on their way to Pilates and not think about any consequences from that phone call.

One person is actively involved and knows what they are doing will end someone's life. The other is thinking about something else, like a new gluten free cupcake shop opening up, and probably won't notice if the person they saw that morning died.

[treestar]

356. So they are careless that they've killed somebody indirectly

I doubt every cop/black person incident results in death, or we would not have prisons with too many people in them.

The latte sipping pilates stereotype who care more about gluten-free cupcake shops are not always liberals or progressives. These types can be black too. Remember Obama and his mustard and arugula.

[IronLionZion]

358. Our prisons are filled with a lot more minorities than they should

because of many steps along the way that favors one type of defendant while discriminates against another. We can get into issues like biased cops, judges, juries, parole officers, for profit prisons, lawmakers, etc.

But it all starts with that phone call. The ABC show "what would you do?" exposed it blatantly. There was an episode where they had white kids and black kids vandalizing cars to see what would happen. People called the cops on the black kids way more often and even called the cops on the black actor's family who were just waiting patiently in a park nearby and not committing any crimes.

Living while black gets calls to the police. It's a common issue. People associate dark skin with crime.

[treestar]

362. Yes, I agree. I saw one about stealing a bicycle

It was chained up. They had a black young man trying to break the chain and people came along, said it wasn't his. He said it had been sitting there for ages, and no one had claimed it, so may as well take it. He got a lot of lectures.

Then they had a white girl do the same thing, explain it the same way and people were helping her try to break it away.

So a lot of this is so subtle that it is tough to eradicate it. Maybe ask people to think twice before they call the cops at least where there is no direct criminality in front of their eyes.

[AJT]

64. The movie "Get Out" deals with the same issue.

I recently drove from my home in Madison to visit my aunt in Florida. I noticed that in the south black and white people working together on construction sites and road crews, something I almost never see in Wisconsin. There is a lot of racism here, both subtle and blatant and very much institutionalized.

Madison.com -

Blacks are 5.5 times more likely than whites to be unemployed in Dane County.

Three-quarters of the county’s African-American children live in poverty , compared to 5 percent of white children.

Half of all black high school students don’t graduate on time, compared to 16 percent of white children.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

67. Pretending progressives don't perform racist or other bigoted actions hurts others and the movement

itself. Turning it into a "no true Scotsman" exercise ignores reality.

[Demsrule86]

188. Oh for sure...I think searching for imperfect 'liberals' and running them down and trashing the

party is the sure way to electoral victory...why I am sure lots of people will vote for a party populated with racists and those hypocritical 'liberals'...sarcasm. Consider, there is Governors race this year...you think this might be about demoralizing voters and helping the GOP win the Governorship?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

198. Your sarcasm makes it difficult for me to grasp your point.

Are you saying that you think this Facebook post is an effort to help the GOP win a governorship?

Are you saying you don't think there are any people who react in a racist way in the Democratic party?

Are you saying that thinking about how racism is much more insidious than a confederate statue hurts the party?

[treestar]

350. What do they do?

They don't march with the KKK or vote for Republicans, so what is it they do?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

359. Are you interested in hearing what happens so you can learn and fight it, or are you interested

in hearing what happens so you can explain away other people's experiences?

[treestar]

361. Learn it and fight it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

365. Excellent.

Really, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said it best in his Letter From a Birmingham Jail: “I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a ‘more convenient season.’”

But there are thousands of think pieces out there, each one detailing someone’s experience with working in liberal, progressive, activist or party circles and having to educate or even struggle against allies who believe themselves “woke” or understanding of intersectional activism. It's easy for us to roll our eyes at the term "microaggression," because considered individually and without context, they sound ridiculous. But the more you read about the black experience, the more you find just how widespread these microaggressions are, and how degrading they must be, day after day; and how discouraging it must feel when you talk with your friends and find they're experiencing the exact same things. I find Twitter an excellent resource for finding new resources that give me different perspectives than I get in my white middle-class bubble. Reading with an open heart and a willingness to grow has taught me so much. Look up "Black Twitter" for some suggestions on who to follow, if you're interested.

(You see this sometimes when women talk about street harassment -- there have been threads on here with men saying, "Huh, I've never seen anyone get harassed!" or "My girlfriend never gets harassed when we're out and about" and women all saying they've experienced it in one form or another, and how it adds up and makes it hard, sometimes to get through the day.)

Here are some links that might be helpful. They’re not all-inclusive, and they’re highly anecdotal; this isn’t something the party is going to research. But when we think about things like hiring biases, it follows that people who consider themselves good liberals are going to make up some of the hiring managers who set aside Lakeisha’s resume in favor of Linda’s with some vague thought about “company culture.” If you're looking for articles that say things like, "I wore yoga pants when I voted for HRC, and I'm racist," you're not going to find them. However, the data we do have about racial prejudice shows this is not a small problem, and that statistically, some white people who consider themselves liberal would have to be part of the racism problem.

Honestly, I sometimes think it would be helpful to have spaces where white people work with each other on their ingrained racism, making it OK to talk about reactions or thoughts they know are racist, but don't know how to shed them. We so often conflate "good person" with "not racist" that we fall into the No True Scotsman fallacy very easily, saying that there can't be racism in liberal circles because if a liberal is racist then they're not really a liberal. I wish there was more room to say, I'm a liberal and I know my thoughts and reactions are sometimes affected by the white supremacist framework I've grown up in. I think the way we do say it is to listen with an open heart when someone calls us out on our thoughts and actions, take the feedback seriously and look for ways to sincerely incorporate it in our future work.

http://billmoyers.com/story/odds-required-viewing-white-progressives/

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/apa/english/page10.htm

https://bullshit.ist/on-woke-white-people-advertising-their-shock-that-racism-just-won-a-presidency-68286682047d

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nikki-johnsonhuston-esq/the-culture-of-the-smug-w_b_11537306.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman2/why-white-parents-wont-ch_b_8294908.html

http://www.gal-dem.com/time-ditch-problematic-white-friends/

Thanks for reading this far. This is not meant as a lecture and I hope it doesn't feel like one. Face-to-face would be better.

[treestar]

376. Thanks I shall read the links

[SHRED]

69. He knows who called the cops on him?

Yeah...right.

[Ms. Toad]

74. Translation: the message is uncomfortable, the messenger must be lying.

When one event (cops just happening by) frequently follows another (jogger going by his farm, car with liberal bumper stickers drives by) consistently enough, it isn't hard to connect the dots.

[SHRED]

80. His stereotype description

It doesn't raise questions for you?

[Ms. Toad]

116. Nope.

I've spoken to too many African American friends who report similar experiences.

I suspect the stereotypes were intentionally used to say, "hey, liberals, yes - I mean you!"

A very liberal national group I'm a member of is currently engaging in an (internal) institutional racism evaluation because we (at the corporate level at least) blamed the messenger (or at least ignored the many messengers) for years, until they finally sent us a message we couldn't ignore (A very visible public event which virtually every African American member of our group chose to skip.).

Our treatment of them - our failure to listen to their repeated explanations of how our actions caused them pain - was at least as disruptive to their lives as the symbolic, but to my white eyes ostensibly bigger, external offenses.

I'm hearing from African American friends I've known for years, on a one-to-one basis, very similar expressions of what they need from me in the spaces where we are working side-by-side. A large part of what I'm hearing is, "Clean up your own house, first." - or at least "also."

From personal experience in spaces where I'm the minority that liberals theoretically welcome - including here on DU on LGBT matters - not having a home in which I can avoid being constantly smacked upside the head with bigotry means that even though the big bad world is objectively harsher, I have far less energy to fight the battles in the wider world beause my political home is not a safe space, where I can relax and focus on external matters. And - it is even worse when not only does bigotry intrude in places that purport to embrace me - but when the response when I point it out is that I'm constantly told (as this thread is telling African Americans) that I'm imagining my life experiences, I'm being overly sensitive, I'm focusing on the wrong things, etc.

[Unca Jim]

72. Overall sad, but also encouraging.

Great article. We need to hear more about people of colors' experience in our racist society.

Though I agree with his main points and especially agree that white people need to look at themselves and work to end their racism, was anyone else encouraged that *half* of Trump supporters and *two thirds* of Clinton supporters got through a bias quiz? Those people are demographically old and white as hell!

That has to be an all-time high for racial tolerance from old white people in this country's history! Yes, there should be zero bias concerning skin color, but seeing a plurality of old white people finally understanding racism has no place in this country felt at least a little good to me. I'd also doubt that the women with the "Coexist" and "I'm With Her" stickers were the primary ones calling the police because they saw a black person. In my neighborhood it's the right-wing white people who do that.

That said, I agree that white people treat POC terribly and are largely in denial about what goes on in this country and their own biases: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3071957/It-s-not-illegal-black-Cops-complain-online-white-people-getting-freaked-black-neighbors-wasting-police-time-911-calls.html

[IronLionZion]

88. Full Text of Chris Newman's Facebook Post:

A message to Charlottesville about Lee Park from your local Black farmer:

I know some folks are really feeling themselves about this whole Love Trumps Hate counter-rally to Richard Spencer's punch-worthy shenanigans in Lee Park. I'd like to appreciate it, but frankly I just don't.

I've lived in several cities and visited many more before Charlottesville. I like this town for its natural beauty, it's small size, the friendliness of its people, and its food. But folks, here's something else: Charlottesville is by far the most aggressively segregated place I've ever lived in or visited. And that seems a strange thing to have to say about a town that hosts a public university.

I say "aggressively" for two reasons. One, because of how assertive police (and the citizens who summon them) are here with racial profiling. It got so bad in 2014 - 2015 that I stopped renting farmland on estates where I could be easily seen from the road, and I stopped making food deliveries into wealthier neighborhoods because of how often police would "happen by" and sometimes even question me five or ten minutes after I got a strange look from a passerby (usually someone jogging, but occasionally someone in a car). I'm not a paranoid kinda guy, but this happened way too often to be a coincidence.

It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with "I'm with Her" and "Coexist" stickers on their German SUVs.

Second is the sheer degree of cultural appropriation going on with businesses in the city proper. It's little things - e.g. shops and other businesses incorporating wide swaths of hiphop culture into their branding while having not a single Black owner, partner, employee, or vendor. And those businesses are KILLING IT here. This is a town where Blackness advances White-owned brands and subjects Black-owned businesses to inspection by law enforcement.

Do you really think that problem comes from people like Richard Spencer?

Check out C'Ville Weekly's Instagram feed when you get a moment, and try not to notice that the few depictions of Black people are limited to sports, singing, criminal justice, or single parenthood. White people, meanwhile, are represented as political activists, chefs, cogs in the gig economy, musicians, dancers, people who get married, visual artists, songwriters, architects, landscapers, thespians, artistic directors, wedge-heel-wearing rugby players, dog lovers, farmers, firefighters, and people who play with their kids in cul de sacs.

Richard Spencer is not the editor of C'Ville Weekly.

Truth is, as a Black dude, I'm far less bothered by the flag wavers in this picture than this town's progressives assuming its race problem has nothing to do with them. The former is a visual inconvenience. The latter could leave my daughters without a father.

So please, put down the candles and instead ask yourself: why is my city like this? Why is life like this for Black people in my wonderful city? The answer is a lot closer to home than Richard Spencer or Lee Park.

[WellDarn]

240. Yes

[IronLionZion]

242. Yup

[Iggo]

89. This.

"...they’re not doing the hard thing, which is thinking, how did we get here, and how the hell do we dig out of institutional racism..."

And it is a hard thing.

[Baitball Blogger]

107. Racism is now more subtle.

Not only glad that he shared his experiences, but very proud that DU recognizes its importance. Shows that we have come a long way from the days when these kind of posts would have been stricken for race-baiting.

[flibbitygiblets]

110. Nervous White Women in Yoga Pants?

Excuse me, but why the focus on what women are wearing? I'm truly sorry that this man has suffered from racism, but blaming half the population is not the solution. In my experience, women are far more likely to be fervently against blatant racism, so please check yourself.

And PS, as a woman, I have news for you: We're leery of ALL men we pass on the street. Do you have any idea what it feels like to be so vulnerable in public, every day, every time? Take a look at your own biases and sexism before pointing fingers in such a broad manner. I hope you never have to find out how much it sucks to have to choose between bodily safety and the appearance of being racist. If women called the cops every time someone simply leered at us, we'd be on the phone all day.

[cwydro]

212. Good post.

You are so right.

[WellDarn]

111. Are we beyond hope?

The attacks on this OP illustrate just how far we are to go when it comes to race.

First came the diversion (I'm being nice) . . . "Taking down the Confederate Flag is important, how can Chris Newman, person of color, not get it? Let me explain."

Then came the attacks . . . "Who are you calling "housewife," you misogynist?" . . . "I bet he's a conservative." . . .

Then came the pragmatism (a/k/a "threats&quot . . . "Just you wait, you call out white suburban liberal racism, you call out Hillary supporters, and you'll end up with Richard Spencer (or Donald Trump) as your president and THEN you'll be sorry."

We even got to . . . "Well, he's racist toward whites"

Finally comes the minimization . . . "Well, yea, I can see where it might be bad having every day of your life impacted by racism, BUT that's nothing compared to voter ID's." See also, "First came . . ." (above)

This country is in serious denial.

[Quayblue]

146. Yep. nt

[WellDarn]

151. Sad but true, I'm afraid n/t

[Iggo]

187. .

[LovingA2andMI]

259. The Detail In Some is Head Deep....

Last edited Thu May 25, 2017, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

So Much, We Will Have To Do A Special LIVE Podcast Sunday, just to deal with some of the displayed PRIVILEGE on this thread.

For folks that are ready to engage in Uncomfortable Conversations -- Catch The Details Of Our Upcoming Special Show (Podcast) on Sunday, at 2:00 pm ET Here.

This thread has been eye-opening to say the very least.

[lunasun]

360. Deflection is both a tactic and an instinct. Who is being complained about is more important

Who is being complained about with deflection tactics then becomes more important than what action was originally being complained about.
It's changing the focus onto the other's behavior and keeping it there, or by bringing up a counter complaint, pointing out something is worse, look at that , and then the original subject , at a minimum gets lost,
Complaining by deflection is easy but it is very exhausting for others who are trying to be sincere. Whatever the sincere response, very often the tactic will be more complaints ! That is the instinct of many uncomfortable with the original action or statement.
The complainant risks nothing, and can stay in denial through deflection.

[ismnotwasm]

114. Just had a heartbreaking discussion with a young AA patient of mine

Who said much the same thing. She said "If I have kids, I don't want my kids to have to grow up with this" --She was actually talking about the casual racism that exists on-line, as well as in real life.

[get the red out]

115. I believe him

White people have been conditioned by racists around them for a long time in this country, I know the horrible crap a lot of adults around me said about black people when I was growing up. Self-examination is necessary.

I do have one issue though, when I am out walking my dogs early in the morning, if I see any unfamiliar man who doesn't appear to be out for a discernible reason, I try to stay aware and cautious (my neighborhood is racially mixed so "unfamiliar" doesn't mean non-white). Sometimes women just don't feel totally secure when they see a strange guy, not saying the ladies he mentioned aren't racists, I don't know them so can't say.

The one time some weird dude tried to grab me on a walk it was a white guy, years ago, on a college campus.

[Iggo]

127. "Self-examination is necessary."

Can't address it until you accept it.

[IronLionZion]

139. Fear goes both ways

I'm fully aware that my fear of being viewed as a dangerous threat is trumped by some women actually fearing that I'm a dangerous threat. Not sure it would help if I called out "Hi, I'm not here to rape or kill you, just going for my morning walk" if that would help.

There was an elderly Indian grandfather in Huntsville Alabama who some woman called the cops on him for walking on the sidewalk while looking like a dangerous threat. He didn't speak any English so the cops body slammed him into the pavement and paralyzed him.

And there are rapists out there. There was one who broke into a woman's apartment in my neighborhood recently and one who attacked an early morning jogger. A few months ago there was even a male who was raped by another male at gunpoint. There's no winning. Bad people exist.

[get the red out]

176. I agree with you

I wish I knew the answer.

[IronLionZion]

120. Chris and Annie Newman:

[LovingA2andMI]

132. Lovely Family....

Thanks for the pictures. It makes his Experiences he wrote masterfully on Facebook, all the more real.

[WellDarn]

156. Thanks n/t

[Iggo]

216. Thank you.

[nini]

123. There are plenty of Liberals out there that do not have interactions with minorities

They believe the right things for the right reasons but have little interaction with folks other than their white family/friends. They don't even realize what they're doing half the time with those subtle reactions to POC.

I see it with people I know all the time. I grew up in a very diverse area and hanging out with 'others' was just normal. Not everyone has that experience and they need to make an effort to break through and learn.

That being said - the guy in this article does seem to wave a broad brush there and assume those while Liberals call the cops on him without knowing who exactly did it. Maybe the cops used a 'call' as an excuse to stop him too.

[HipChick]

125. Liberal racism is real...

Truth hurts...I'm always amazed at the fact that I can be in the most liberal of areas, and see White woman clutch their handbag, when a black person enters the same elevator as them..

[LovingA2andMI]

128. Racism is real, racial biases are real....

The only way to break down the barriers that exist on these matters is to have Uncomfortable Conversations....however, this conversation which was on the "Trending Now" thread have moved. As for why it has moved....well....it's best for folks to make their own conclusions.

[LOL Lib]

130. Useless observation post to follow.

I grew up in Tennessee. The first time I actually saw a confederate flag being displayed was during a family trip that took us through the heart of Indiana. I specifically remember the event because the adults in the car had what seemed like a never ending discussion about it. I was less tha 10 years old at the time. Sadly that wasn't the last time I would see that flag draped over a porch rail, emblazoned on a back window, or proudly flying on a pole in a rural southern yard.

I have even seen an entire house/warehouse building painted as a rebel/confederate flag in an industrial area of Memphis. It is a strange site to see young black men casually walking past this house as if it is invisible. I believe that the confederate flag may be more repulsive to me (SWF) than it is to the black community here in Memphis. It is so hard to mentally grasp the feelings that flag stirs in different people. I don't understand nor pretend to understand the abomination of racism. I just know that I was raised to love everyone, so I am deeply offended by racism in all it's ugliness. Perhaps even more than those who have experienced it personally. Since I have not experienced personal racism, I can't begin to pretend to know what it must feel like, so given my upbringing I look at it in the worst possible light.

Recently I watched an interview with Trevor Noah. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. He describes his experience with racism.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017440164

[LOL Lib]

144. Link to article about the house mentioned above.

Just in case anyone is curious. Photo at link not sure how to embed.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/columnists/david-waters/david-waters-confederate-flag-a-shameful-symbol-not-a-colorful-souvenir-ep-1158510776-324378801.html

[Lee-Lee]

133. Having been the person who had to respond to calls like this

What he says is 100% real.

I answered so many "suspicious person" calls that were actually "black/brown person who doesn't live here" calls. Generally someone working in the area or just walking through a neighborhood.

And when I went to talk to the callers after I'd was always "I am not racist but he just looked out of place..."

And yes, while it may make many people uncomfortable fact is many of them had sticker or signs for the Democratic candidates of the time. Liberal racism does exist, it just manifests itself differently.

[kcr]

172. Of course it exists. It's the conflating with the movement to remove Confederate statues

I have a problem with. That smacks of a different agenda. The removal of those statues has been a hot topic in the media lately, and the Confederate defenders have been out in full force. I have a feeling that at best this article was nothing more than a bothsiderist screed from Huffpost, based on a Facebook post.

[Caliman73]

261. It was more of a ... remove the plank from your eye before pointing out the speck..

type of article.

I did not see it as an article equating the open racism of Spencer and the Confederate flag wavers with liberals. The telling line for me was where he expressed frustration, not at the protests, but at the people patting themselves on the back for "fighting racism" by protesting the Confederate monuments, while simultaneously calling the cops just because a black man is riding a tractor or walking up to a door in a rich neighborhood.

I'd prefer to confront a loud mouthed racist head on than to think that my neighbors might suspect me for any thefts in the area because I am brown. You can tell a loud mouth to shut up, but how do you confront your neighbors for calling the police on you because they don't recognize you as belonging in your home?

[kcr]

272. I didn't see it as equating those things either, because I don't think that's what he doing.

He's flat out saying Spencer and the Confederate flags and monuments don't matter because they aren't calling the cops on him. He dismisses them as "visual inconveniences." That's what I meant in another post when I said it's almost like he tried to make it about systemic racism but then he didn't quite make it there all the way. And he seems to actually have contempt for those who do confront the loudmouths. I don't think he's equating. He's flat out dismissing.

[Caliman73]

288. I think we see it differently

I do not see it as being dismissive as much as I see him saying that people should not be overly eager to pat themselves on the back for "fighting racism" when they aren't addressing their own bias.

I have some questions and obviously you do not have to answer them, but it might help the discussion.

1. Are you a person of color?
2. Have you ever been harassed by law enforcement for no apparent reason?
3. Have you ever been followed in a store?

[kcr]

290. No to the first question. Yes to the second two.

However, having answered your questions I would never, ever equate my daily experiences to those of many people of color. But I do not trust the police at all given negative experiences, without going into detail. I still acknowledge a privilege even in that area, even with my negative experiences.

[Caliman73]

294. But other people trust them...especially to deal with people of color

Whatever your personal experiences are, understand that a great many people of color have the same experience merely because of the color of their skin.

Funny thing is that I have a right wing family member (I actually have quite a few) but this particular member posted the article thinking that it was some triumph over "liberal hypocrisy". I merely commented on how racism is ingrained in a very big chunk of our population since the before the country was founded, when my particular ancestors brought slaves over, and enslaved or wiped out the native Mexicas, Maya, and other native groups. Converted them by the sword and tried to destroy the language and culture. Similarly in the colonies, Black people were seen as non humans and sold like cattle. While slavery was primarily a Southern thing, the slave trade, and the view of Black people as inferior was widely held in the North as well.

We can certainly focus on how conservatives actively fight to promote White Supremacy and we should, but that does not mean that we shouldn't listen to people of color when they tell us that there are things that the rest of us are doing that hurt them too.

[kcr]

297. Right. I guess I'm just not being very clear.

I'm not discounting his experiences at all. I fully believe that the police harassed him and don't doubt for a second the existence of clueless white liberals in his town. I just don't agree with his opinions on the Confederate monument and the protests against them, and his comments about women in yoga pants rankled a bit as well. I think some of my comments were misunderstood in this thread.

[Caliman73]

299. I think I understand what you are saying.

I can certainly stipulate that his comments were too flip about the important work of calling out obvious racism. Like I said, one of my right wing relatives did exactly what you and some other posters are concerned about, using him as a foil to point out how hypocritical liberals are.

My take is just different in that having seen racial prejudice coming from my own family toward others, when we have been called racial epithets and discriminated against, I see that someone could just be tired of the subtle bias and even see the straight up stuff as "refreshing" because at least you know where it is coming from.

I don't think that Mr. Newman would appreciate living in a place where Mr. Spencer and his ilk were not being actively fought against and kept at bay. Then again, he doesn't seem to be having a great time in a supposedly liberal place either. Sometimes things are very tough when you stand out.

Another point of reference I have is that California schools have been pointed out to be highly segregated with regards to Latino students, this in a deep blue state.

[kcr]

303. You know? It's weird this whole thing about liberal vs conservative areas

and the assumptions that people make about them. I moved from one of the reddest states in this country - seriously, I wish I could divulge which one so people here could understand what I'm talking about. It's one of the worst - to a blue one. I just couldn't wait to get out of the hell hole. Now, it is absolutely so much better here measurably in just about every way. More services, better quality of living even though we haven't changed our standard of living meaningfully. It's just better here. The reason it is so much better is conservative government doesn't reign here. But it's not some oasis where everyone is perfect and nice and racism and sexism doesn't exist and no one is ever mean, like some giant hippie commune. Nor is it the giant hippie commune of latte sipping elite overly PC morons that exist in the minds of Fox news watching right wingers. It's just a lot of imperfect people with the same cultural biases everyone everywhere else has. If you go into a wealthy enclave here, you're more likely to face a bunch of snooty toots just like everywhere else, and they're also more likely to be right wingers, just like everywhere else. The only real difference? Is just better government and less poverty as a result. Red states? Conservative and a hell of a lot of poverty.

[Caliman73]

305. It is in the mindset.

Conservatives strive to hold on to something that "worked before". We know what the wealthy conservatives want. They want to use the commons like the rest of us, but they also want to retain the wealth they have and gain more power so that they do not have to mix with the rest of us. Poor conservatives are a little harder to figure out. They seem to want to go back to a time that made more sense to them but the reality is that they have been poor their entire lives with maybe slightly more ability to openly look down on Black people or gay people, or immigrants. Yet they persist to hold these ideas which have worked for the rich (face it, everything works for the rich), but has never worked for them. They are dependent on government programs, but spit in the face of the very government that keeps them from dying.

Liberals, we try to grow but it can be difficult. We get set in some of our ways too, until the evidence becomes overwhelming and we move forward. Like you said, we are imperfect people but we tend to strive to be better, which is a never ending quest, while our fellow citizens in the Red states who subscribe to the conservative philosophy stagnate and look backward for their answers.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

134. Hey white people in this thread, a few questions:

What do you gain by proving this story wrong?

What do you lose if his story is accurate?

What do you gain by insisting the farmer has no idea what you go through as a woman/poor person/member of another oppressed population and that your oppression is somehow worse?

What do you lose if you let this story have the center of attention for five minutes? An hour?

What do you gain by coming to the defense of white women, who cast 53 percent of their votes for Donald Trump, at the expense of a black man?

What do you lose by using one oppressed population against another in an effort to defend yourself and your movement?

What do you gain by acknowledging that because we live in a system and a culture and have a government based on white supremacy, your upbringing and institutions and worldview are steeped in racism? What do you lose?

Don't feel like you have to post your answers. I'm not super interested in hearing them necessarily; just throwing the questions out there for thinking about.

[LovingA2andMI]

140. Great Questions....

n/t

[Iggo]

142. That kind of self-examination makes people uncomfortable. (n/t)

[WhiskeyGrinder]

145. It does indeed. I'm hoping, on a message board, people can feel their feelings in the privacy of

their own home or office and do some thinking in a low-stress way. They don't have to answer. In most cases I hope they don't. I'm hoping people find the courage I know they have to sit with that discomfort for a bit and ask themselves -- really ask themselves -- even one or two of those questions. The work is hard but it must be done.

[LovingA2andMI]

149. Sometimes....

Uncomfortable Conversations are best done from the privacy screens of the internet behind a keyboard and a computer. Sometimes. Although, it's always better to do them in person if the person is fully woke to listen and reply accordingly to the conversation at hand.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

153. Totally agree.

I've learned a lot from my online friends over the years; it's great for challenging beliefs and giving people the time and room to close the laptop and go on with their day while thinking about what they've heard. But yes, sharing personal experience and connecting face-to-face is so powerful.

[Demsrule86]

190. Really?

"It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with "I'm with Her" and "Coexist" stickers on their German SUVs."


This shows that he is conservative...right there...he is more afraid of 'evil' liberals than white racists...who have been on a killing spree of late. He has no worries about Trump? You want to fall for this...go for it...but I had enough of this sort of thing during the election.

[Iggo]

197. Yes. It really does. (n/t)

[WhiskeyGrinder]

201. Being more worried about clueless liberals than out-and-out racists does not make someone

a conservative or a Republican, nor does it mean he doesn't dislike Trump. It means that the white people around him think they aren't harmful, they're just "being careful," because "you can't be too careful these days." White people who think they aren't harmful can be even more so than impotent, angry white racists who are largely confined to certain geographic areas.

What do you lose if this man is right? If white people sometimes act in racists ways even when they think they know better or consider themselves progressive?

[Demsrule86]

236. The man mouths common GOP talking points ...'why liberals are the racist' (sarcasm).

at best he assumes without proof that a white liberal called the police...speaks derisively of Hillary people...I think he is right wing and this is a put on job...not saying there is not racism...my daughter dates a young man who is Black...and I was pretty horrified by the stabbing in New York of an interracial couple...so I would rather my kids run into a clueless liberal any day than an alt-right person who could hurt or even kill them. The entire article seems like what Republicans think about Democrats and race.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

237. The problem is that if "clueless liberal" calls the cops on a man who is farming while black and

the cops shoot him, he's still a victim of white supremacy. Do you not think there are well-meaning white people, people who call themselves liberals, who can act in harmful ways based on a soft racism that doesn't actively knot the rope but instead calls the cops? Some liberals are racist, and many more are fighting the racist framework they've been raised in; white liberals lose nothing by hearing "taking down statues isn't enough, just not being a KKK member isn't enough, there is still more work to be done among our friends and neighbors."

[kwassa]

211. You totally misinterpret his statement.

It doesn't show that he is conservative, at all. He is talking his own life experience, which you are trying to invalidate by comparing liberals to Trump. What he is saying is that some self-defined liberals are hiding racial prejudices themselves, and not doing enough to challenge racism.

and this has nothing to do with Trump. It has a lot to do built-in institutionalized racism in Charlotte, which is deeply segregated both by race and class.

.......................................................................................................................
quote:
"
Charlotte today is an extremely segregated city. Whites largely live in a triangle in the city’s south, between South Boulevard and Providence Road, where neighborhoods are between 80 and 95 percent white. “Drive down our street, just about everyone is white,” Jimmy Carr, a white resident of that triangle, told me.

Blacks and the city’s growing Latino community live everywhere else. Census tracts in the north and west parts of the city are 70 percent black or more. And 43 of the 51 tracts that are 70 percent or more black or Hispanic are high poverty, according to 2014 Census data.

This segregation has proven an increasingly uncomfortable fact for a city that prided itself on racial harmony in the 1990s, as my colleague David Graham has written. In September, the city experienced demonstrations and riots after a police officer shot black resident Keith Lamont Scott.

And the city has been reckoning with damning data from the economist Raj Chetty that suggests that poor children in Charlotte have a worse shot at economic mobility than do poor children in 49 of America’s largest metro areas. Segregation plays a central role in that."

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/02/segregation-invented/517158/

[dawg]

217. Wrong city, but it doesn't really matter.

Most Southern cities are still pretty segregated.

[kwassa]

218. You're right. I do have the wrong city, and state.

Virginia vs. North Carolina.

Same forces were in action, though.

[yardwork]

316. Charlotte and Charlottesville are so different.

[NickB79]

244. "he is more afraid of 'evil' liberals than white racists" You completely missed the point there

The uber-RW, gun-toting, KKK, white racist may attempt to kill him, but if they are rare in his community the risk of violence is low.

The subtly racist liberal who calls the cops on him for anything remotely suspicious, however, could very well get a black man killed unintentionally if the responding officer on one of those visits is a trigger-happy bully like we see so often today. He may reach for his wallet and end up with 5 bullets in his chest, simply because he's black and the cop goes off.

[WellDarn]

245. Exactly

[WellDarn]

143. This n/t

[dawg]

186. I am allowed to believe that white racism is a pervasive problem, and ...

at the same time, also to believe that this post sets up a false equivalence that plays into the hands of conservatives and pisses all over the very real accomplishments of the good people of all races who worked to have those monuments removed.

I don't doubt or question his personal experiences. But I do question his motives for the way he focused his grievances not on whites in general, but specifically on liberals - making sure to include lots of the code words right-wingers have been throwing at liberals for years. Frankly, I'm surprised he didn't mention Starbucks.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

203. How would you propose discussing racism within the party?

[dawg]

208. Well, quite frankly, it does need to be discussed.

Personally, I believe every white person in the U.S. carries at least some residual racist or prejudiced attitudes. And I certainly don't claim to be the exception to that rule.

One way my "baggage" sometimes manifests itself is when I pull my punches and don't say what I really think in situations like this. It's easier to just let things go than to engage and risk being accused of being racially insensitive. But doing that would be ... I don't know ... kind of patronizing in a way?

But I think the farmer (not the OP) had a right-wing agenda with his post. And I'm not going to refrain from criticizing that just because he's black and I'm not.

There is a time and place to focus on the problems in our own house. I think it should be framed more in terms of "even" the most liberal people still have some problems to work through. But we need to keep the differences between the two parties in perspective.

Both sides are not the same.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

213. Interesting, I see the farmer's mention of an HRC sticker to be a way of saying "even the most

liberal people still have some problems to work through," the framing you say would be helpful. I also think that bending over to keep the differences between the two parties "in perspective" is condescending to POC. They know what the difference is. They know both sides aren't the same. But when it comes to being directly oppressed, a string of turn-downs for job interviews because of "company culture" from hiring managers who don't consider themselves racist is just as harmful as proclamation celebrating Robert E. Lee, if not more so.

POC are asking white people who call themselves allies to do better. White people who call themselves allies know they can do better, and yet insist on POC using different words or approaches when they ask white allies to do better. Why?

I think part of the answer is what some of the responses in this thread allude to: There Republicans might score a point because they're right about their claims about some in the party. All the more reason to address it then, I would think.

[dawg]

215. What you call "political points" is now turning into matters of life and death.

The farmer equated a scared lady in yoga pants to a politically active white supremacist.

"Bothsiderism" gives white people the moral excuse to vote for Republicans like Trump when, deep down, even they know it's wrong. The target audience of articles like this isn't POC. It's white "moderates" who want another excuse for their Republican votes.

Notice the utter lack of criticism of conservatives by this farmer.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

219. When and where should people criticize their own party?

If a scared white lady in yoga pants calls the cops on him for farming while black, and a politically active white supremacist calls the cops on him for being black and in his neighborhood, what is the best framing for the farmer to bring up this problem to people who want to be his ally? Perhaps more accurately, what would be the best way for him to bring this up to people who want to be his ally *in a way that doesn't make them uncomfortable, resentful or defensive*?

[dawg]

220. Let's start by not pissing on the people who worked to get the monuments taken down.

Secondly, by acknowledging that there is a much deeper problem of systemic racism, hatred, and even white-supremacy on the right.

Lingering racism on our side is something we do need to work on, but he makes it seem like it's a bigger problem that that which exists on the right. Honestly, he makes the impression that "they" are better than "us". "It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while black."

Does he not realize that Richard Spencer would probably be willing to lynch him if it weren't for all the damned liberals who made that illegal? Does he really think the scared woman in the yoga pants is worse?

No. That's just wrong. It sets up a false narrative, and it plays into the hands of the very people who want to make things worse for minorities and the poor.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

222. If he feels people who call themselves allies aren't doing a good job being allies, why should he

talk about the right?

What do we lose by saying, "You're right, your experience sounds awful. Let's work on it"? What do we gain by saying, "Your overall point is valid, but maybe next time could you thank us for getting those statues down"?

[dawg]

223. I never once suggested he should thank anyone or praise anyone for the statues.

That is something that should have happened decades ago, so I don't think there should ever be expectations of praise for doing what you should have done anyway.

But also, no reason for him to go out of his way to bring it up only to criticize and downplay the achievement.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

225. I appreciate your answers and find your perspective helpful, so thanks.

[dawg]

224. Just curious, are you 100% unwilling to entertain the idea ...

that this farmer could have a right-wing agenda? He certainly uses a lot of their buzzwords.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

226. I'd say 95 percent.

Having heard much the same perspective from many POC, I see it as a valid reminder for white liberals to take a hard and necessary look at themselves and stop taking POC for granted, whether it's in the community or in the voting booth. A lot of work still needs to be done.

[kcr]

246. Many POC have managed to express that perspective much better

without sounding like they were spouting GOP talking points. Which is why I don't wonder if many falling all over themselves to publicly and loudly agree with him, puffing themselves up while shaming anyone who doesn't agree haven't actually listened to many of them.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

247. What's the GOP talking point in his post?

[kcr]

249. Liberals are just PC fake in their fight to take down Confederate monuments.

His dismissal plays right into that. And his sexist stereotype of housewives in yogapants isn't too great, either. If he'd stuck entirely to systemic racism and how entrenched it is even in a liberal college town, that would have been powerful. But this is the clickbait internet era. We probably woudn't have seen it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

267. But it's true that it's much easier for white people to fight symbols -- symbols that are

harmful -- than to work on themselves. Who wouldn't rather fight to take a statue down than examine one's own racist inclinations? Look at how hard people are fighting to focus on the statue in this thread.

I see no references to "housewives" in his post. What he does say is "It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with 'I'm with Her' and 'Coexist' stickers on their German SUVs." Why couch that in the more vague language like "even in a liberal college town" when he says it so well? What does "even in a liberal college town" even mean, when you say it? If we're surprised that racism exists even in a "liberal college town," then who's being racist in that town? If it's a surprise, then it's going to be white people with progressive stickers who live comfortably in their bubble.

[kcr]

274. You would rather white people decide it's better to just leave the monuments there?

And stay out of it because it isn't their fight? Because that's essentially the same thing. This is exactly why I think it sounds like a GOP-catered talking point, catered to a certain POV. Is it true that some white people who take up with the cause do so because that's easier? I'm sure that's true. But how do you tell individually which is which? Is it better to to say fuck it and tell all white people to pound sand because some are just feel-good fakers? Or do you give the benefit of the doubt because those monuments should come down?

As to the "housewives" comment. You're right. That word wasn't used. But the statement he did use is no better, and the fact you think he said it so well? Means we probably will come to zero agreement on that aspect. Because guess what? Here's a little fun fact. Men are racist too. Even liberal ones. Isn't that something more liberals would do well to remember? Progressives in their bubbles, indeed.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

279. No, I would like white people to not act like racism is dead when they tear down statues --

or elect a black president.

"But how do you tell individually which is which?"

When people cry about white people not getting credit for doing the right thing, I get a pretty good idea.

"Men are racist, too."

Of course men are also racist. And I don't think if he had said "white people in yoga pants and hipster beards" would have made you like his words any more, however.

[kcr]

287. Ridiculous behavior. No argument from me.

But that still doesn't make him right. And man. That last sentence of yours. Hm. Well, given that it isn't the only problem I have with him, who knows. But it sure says a lot that the sexism doesn't seem to bother you at all.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

291. The historic relationship between white women and black men has been a troubled one for generations.

White supremacy uses the manufactured plight of the white woman as a weapon against the black man. A lot of violence committed against black men by white men has been in the name of white women -- their purity, their chastity, their honor. A lot of our racial troubles today are rooted in this made-up fear of white defilement. And white women have not hesitated to use that small amount of power granted to them within a white patriarchal system that pits oppressed people against each other. Where you see sexism, I see privilege. Fifty-three percent of white women voters picked Trump. I don't blame him at all for not trusting white women. The fact that he's married to a white women leads me to believe he's experienced plenty of soft racism from his wife's friends -- things she might not even notice without him telling her.

Of course, this is all assumptions, and we're really wandering in the weeds on some of this. The fact that people are more willing to talk about how a black man said something -- even when they admit his premise is correct -- says a lot about the dominant narrative on this board, in progressive politics, and in society as a whole.

[kcr]

293. I'm fully aware of all of that in your first paragraph.

But he talked about none of that. If he had. If that had been the article he'd written? An entirely different response from me. But, as you say in your second paragraph, it was assumptions. He made snide, stereotypical comments about women. He could have made even the tiniest effort to somehow tie that in, but didn't. A whole lot of effort being put into giving him the benefit of the doubt given the subject matter, which I really can understand. But he chose to write this the way he did.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

300. Fair enough.

I'm sure neither of us will convince the other, although I appreciate your willingness to respond.

[WellDarn]

255. Perfect

You telling us that we haven't been listening to the "right POC"

well . . . just perfect.

[kcr]

257. Completely and utterly not what I said

Can you answer these question please? Why does there have to be complete agreement with this one guy, who thinks Confederate memorials and Richard Spencer aren't the real problem? What if you think they are? Is it possible to think they're a problem AND harassment by police and white liberal racism also real problems and be irked by his sexism?

[WellDarn]

262. But you didn't say that you were

merely not in "complete" agreement. You jumped in with another poster to basically accuse him of being a Trump plant.

BUT, to answer your questions.

I have no problem with pointing out that "white liberals in yoga pants driving (presumably) BMW's" is a sexist caricature. It doesn't invalidate the point that upper middle class white liberals look at me with the same eye as every other upper middle class white person when I look at a house for sale, or walk into a store, or even just walk down the street in the suburbs AND that kind of racism gets people who look like me killed

ALSO

While I join in his opinion that Confederate statues are far less of a detriment in my life than having the cops called on me, I have no problem with anyone who finds them offensive (and I find them offensive as well). It just that tearing them down doesn't "prove" that the white folks calling for it stand beside me and I resent it when people suggest that it does.

Finally, (and I admit it wasn't really a question) I wanted to add that "harassment by the police" suggests that the problems in the criminal justice system start and end with racist cops, prosecutors, and judges. They don't. The criminal justice system is racist to its very core. It is racist by design. It exists solely to protect and maintain privilege.

[kcr]

265. I did no such thing. Or you're confusing me with another poster.

I have never called him a Trump plant. I have said more than once that I agree that liberal racism is a problem. My issue with him is his claim that Confederate monuments and Richard Spencer aren't the real problem, that it's liberal women in yoga pants with Hillary stickers on their cars, which is his stand-in for all liberals. I do not like his style of argument and his tendency to stereotype at all. That, combined with his stance on Confederate monuments gives his post a whiff of conservatism. But I NEVER stated he was a Trump plant. That is false.

[Ms. Toad]

275. He didn't say they weren't the real problem.

He said, "It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with "I'm with Her" and "Coexist" stickers on their German SUVs. . . . . Richard Spencer is not the editor of C'Ville Weekly." i.e. his personal experience of racism isn't coming from Richard Spencer - it is coming from local people, including liberals, who are turning a blind eye to their own racism.

As to flags, the opinion he expressed was as to the impact on his own life: "Truth is, as a Black dude,I'm far less bothered by the flag wavers in this picture than this town's progressives assuming its race problem has nothing to do with them. The former is a visual inconvenience. The latter could leave my daughters without a father."

He made none of the broad assertions you claim about "the real problem." He called Richard Spencer's behavior "punch-worthy shenanigans," then went on to address the reality of his life and what, in his personal experience, has the biggest impact on his life.

[kcr]

277. Are you reading any of my other posts in this thread?

You are responding to a post accusing me of something I didn't say. This isn't the entirety of all the points I've been making, but I don't feel like re-hashing it all. Just go read some others but here's a hint: Systemic and institutional racism.

[Ms. Toad]

278. I have been reading the other posts - they are similar in tone.

In this one, you specifically alleged that he said that Richard Spencer was not the problem. He said no such thing. I was responding to that specific allegation you made. Others have responded appropriately to the other posts you have made - so I didn't feel a need to. As to this one, no one had responded.

[kcr]

289. Oh, come on!

"It isn't Richard Spencer calling the cops on me for farming while Black. It's nervous White women in yoga pants with "I'm with Her" and "Coexist" stickers on their German SUVs." I don't have to allege a thing. It's clear what he's saying.

[VespertineIconoclast]

266. +1000000000000000000000. Thank you so much for this post.

I truly appreciate this post and the questions that you posed. Additionally, the way that you have responded to individuals who may not fully have grasped the point of you were making with this post has been great. I have nothing more to add and keep it up what you are doing!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

281. You're welcome, and thank you for the feedback!

[treestar]

310. Has nothing to do with whether it is true or not

Anyone can say anything on the internet.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

155. K&R .. n/t

[Solly Mack]

202. K&R

[kwassa]

214. .

[WellDarn]

235. Here's an interesting fact from another "liberal" city

Austin, Texas (a/k/a "The People's Republic of Austin&quot

Like Charlotte, Austin remains largely segregated, despite years of "progressive" city government. There is, however, another statistic that is perhaps more relevant to Mr. Newman's experiences. I say this because, as the Atlantic article points out, segregation has been a long time coming and will be a long time going. In fact, in my humble opinion, segregation will fall ONLY after reparations for the $60 trillion that were stolen from our ancestors. Segregation is simply integrated (pun intended) into too many elements of the majority society to be eradicated with anything less.

Statistical analyses have been done of law enforcement encounters in Austin. Police practices are something that could be changed overnights and yet, despite years of progressive leadership in Austin, continue to display an incredibly disturbing pattern.

Let me make a brief aside here. White people, whether liberal or conservative, will read what I just wrote and say, "Yea, we know all about how there are way more law enforcement encounters with black people than white." The liberals will then break off into discussions about getting "racist cops" out of police departments and the conservatives will launch into their racist diatribe about black people committing more crime. Regardless of whether it is true that the number of per-capita encounters between cops and people of color dwarfs that of per-capita encounters between cops and white folks, that isn't what is really disturbing about the analysis of these encounters.

What is disturbing is WHERE these encounters occur. Surprisingly, there are not that many more police encounters in black neighborhoods than there are in white neighborhoods. Instead the overwhelming majority of encounters between cops and people of color is along a fairly narrow line between "black" Austin and "white" Austin. In other words, even in liberal Austin, there is a blue wall between its majority white residents and its black residents. This is the wall that we as people of color face in every city. It's the wall Mr. Newman faced. Given the fact that police encounters between people of color, and especially black males, usually ends badly, it is a wall as imposing as any in history.

In a city where no confederate monuments stand EXCEPT one on the Texas State Capitol grounds and beyond city control, a wall stands between black and white, a wall that could be torn down overnight.

Are there conservative cities which are worse? Of course. Is there a difference between those cities and places like Austin and Charlotte? Absolutely. Is their ANY justification for a liberal to deny that such a wall exists OR that it is harmful (and even deadly) for people of color? Is there ANY justification for a liberal to accuse a person of color of being a Trump supporter for saying this is unacceptable? Is there ANY justification for NOT STARTING TODAY to work on racism within our party?

Again, in my humble opinion,

F' no.

[kwassa]

253. Becoming a blue city isn't enough to change segregation

The US government, via HUD grants, institutionalized it legally for decades.

It was required in order to get a government loan. Unacceptable neighborhoods were red-lined.

and the North is as segregated as the south ... most cities are blue, most rural areas are red.

I think the South is more segregated, though, socially.

[WellDarn]

258. Absolutely correct

That was pretty much my first point.

But in cities we control we can stop using the police as a barrier between segregated neighborhoods and we aren't. We are still using the police to not just protect them from us, but to keep us from even getting near to them.

I think the point of the OP was that it is one thing for them to tear down monuments to racist butchers and proclaim themselves "liberal." It is not so easy for them to welcome us into "their" part of town, even for an day or an evening.

[kwassa]

264. I agree with you.

I live in the suburbs of DC, which are wildly diverse, for the most part. I am aware that this is exceptional, rather than the norm. Areas of DC are totally black, and poor. Other areas are largely Hispanic. Massive immigration has transformed this area, but most of the change is in the suburbs.

There is a fuzzier sort of sorting in the suburbs, too, but the lines are not as firmly drawn. The police don't enforce a line, but there is still a lot of social segregation by race and ethnicity, even if we all mix in the workplace. Social class can also stratify by race in the more affluent areas, where the only minorities present are the servers.

We just moved our Confederate statue a few months ago in Rockville, MD. The black county executive made it a cause.

[kcr]

263. Yes, there are liberal racists. Lots of them. But, no. You do not have to agree with everything

this guy says. Disagreeing with him does not make one a racist, despite what a few loud people think in this thread. Because those monuments do need to come down, and Richard Spencer and people like him ARE a BIG problem and they should never be ignored, even though liberals are racists too. And he has no clue who called the cops on him. His assumptions are wrong and were a distraction from his argument. The whole piece was shitty writing filled with flawed logic and some sexist assumptions of his own, and no one should feel compelled to share it or champion it, IMO.

Do we need to discuss racism on our side? Of course. There is no denying it's there and that it happens all the time, and way too many if not most white people are in denial about it. But I don't think a whole lot of people will be willing to listen if it's couched in sexism, and sounds just like a right winger talking. It's hard enough to get white people to listen to begin with.

[LovingA2andMI]

269. All Who Are Willing To Engage in What Is Known As "Uncomfortable Conversations"....

Outside of this thread (which for the most part is a great thread by the way, outside of some small questionable responses) feel to tune into our Sunday, May 28, 2017, podcast at 2:00 pm ET at this link. Our call in number is 347.934.0185.

Look forward to constructive dialogue and engagement with you!

[Iggo]

375. Did I miss it?

I'm clicking Play at the link, but nothing's happening...

[bathroommonkey76]

271. I've seen this type of behavior in Asheville and Chapel Hill before.

It's not really surprising for people living in the south.

[IronLionZion]

280. The South is gaining population

as many African-Americans and others in the rust belt have been moving south for jobs. It changes the demographics of neighborhoods and influences elections, both of which can lead to tension. Competition for jobs and housing can bring out the worst in people.

VA has become a blue-leaning state. I hope NC is becoming blue soon.

[bathroommonkey76]

286. VA is blue b/c of NVA

The rest of the VA is as red as the rural pocket's across NC.

"Tension"? WTF.

No, it's called RACISM- not TENSION!

Using competition for jobs and housing as an excuse for any person's bigotry is very twisted. You're either a racist, or not. There is no in between.

[IronLionZion]

314. This discussion exposes there is a whole lot in between

Everyone in this thread will tell you they are not racist.

And it contributes to the rust belt turning red for Trump recently. Those folks didn't just turn racist like an on/off switch.

Liberal organic farmers tend to be in the rural areas. And minority farmers exist. Racial dynamics in rural areas is a bit different than urban. Some people are not used to the existence of rural minorities and are sure we must have come from the inner cities to commit crimes or something.

[no_hypocrisy]

273. Well, I'M *not* surprised.

Sixty miles south of C-ville is Amherst County which STILL maintains segregated cemeteries. (So much for Death being The Great Equalizer.) And the Amherst County Courthouse was the original jurisdiction of Buck v. Bell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell, a case that is theoretically still "active case law". In other words, it's still legal for the state to have a hearing to determine whether you should be sterilized against your will.

And 75 miles south of C-ville, is of course, Liberty University and Jerry Falwell, Jr.

Great place, Virginia.

[MountCleaners]

276. I know....

I work in a VERY liberal environment, but at the end of the day, a lot of my white liberal co-workers go back to their trendy expensive liberal white neighborhoods, sometimes commuting more than an hour one way so they can live within their comfort zone. Meanwhile, there are perfectly lovely places within ten or twenty minutes of my workplace, but because they are racially diverse they are not desirable for these young trendies.

They think they are progressive or "tolerant" but they are taking their dollars out of our community. Think about where you live and spend and invest your money - nothing will change until you're willing to live with everyone and invest in our collective future!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

283. Ohh...that reminds me of an article I saw awhile back:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/abby-norman2/why-white-parents-wont-ch_b_8294908.html

[Iggo]

298. Great article.

[IronLionZion]

317. Oh, I've seen that in liberal hippie Takoma Park, MD

Lots of white hippies everywhere, but when I volunteer at the elementary school there is hardly any white students there. They pay extra to send their kids to private school, even at the elementary level. It blows my mind since I always went to public schools through high school.

[Starry Messenger]

304. Sorry I'm late to this thread--experience even in Oakland is the same.

White liberal Oaklanders are notorious for calling the cops on their Black neighbors and for racial profiling. There was an analysis of Nextdoor posts that showed it was so bad, that the platform had to change their reporting process for "suspicious" people in your neighborhood. People were just straight up dropping a dime on the Black neighbors.

A friend of mine in West Oakland neighborhood said she was shocked at the amount of times her very liberal white neighbor called the cops on a mutual Black neighbor for letting their dog run in the back yard.

White people have been acclimated to think of cops as officer friendly just there to do wellness checks and social aid. I had a boss of mine lecture me once about how it was important to call the cops on the homeless because cops are the first line to resources. Well, I don't, and I think the publicity about what happens to people of color in encounters with cops pretty much backs that up.

[The Polack MSgt]

306. Oooh. When I get home I am so reading this thread

On my cell now.

Prolly cook up some popcorn too.

Peace I.L.Z

[IronLionZion]

313. Peace!

DU needed this thread apparently.

Here, have some

[NobodyHere]

311. Cultural Appropriation is a very racist concept

Guess what, white people are allowed to like hip hop too. There is no racial ownership of music.

[IronLionZion]

315. "while having not a single Black owner, partner, employee, or vendor."

The relevant paragraph:

"Second is the sheer degree of cultural appropriation going on with businesses in the city proper. It's little things - e.g. shops and other businesses incorporating wide swaths of hiphop culture into their branding while having not a single Black owner, partner, employee, or vendor. And those businesses are KILLING IT here. This is a town where Blackness advances White-owned brands and subjects Black-owned businesses to inspection by law enforcement. "

It affects people's livelihoods.

[stevenleser]

321. I don't get the whole cultural appropriation thing either. I buy everything else from the guy in the

OP.

If I want to open a Pizza restaurant, or sell Indonesian paintings or music, it shouldn't matter that I am neither Italian nor Indonesian nor do I have business partners with either background.

In fact if I had to sell only from "my own" culture, since I am so mixed (Latino, African, American Aborigine, German, French, etc) I don't have one, I couldn't sell any kind of art at all.

I think this is one of those things some bright person came up with in a Doctoral thesis and everyone bought into without really thinking it through.

[IronLionZion]

324. The root is in power dynamic

This article is a good read if you're curious to learn more:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/cultural-appropriation-wrong/

"A deeper understanding of cultural appropriation also refers to a particular power dynamic in which members of a dominant culture take elements from a culture of people who have been systematically oppressed by that dominant group.

That’s why cultural appropriation is not the same as cultural exchange, when people share mutually with each other – because cultural exchange lacks that systemic power dynamic.

It’s also not the same as assimilation, when marginalized people adopt elements of the dominant culture in order to survive conditions that make life more of a struggle if they don’t."

When I've had a white girlfriend who likes to wear ethnic clothes, it's fine and fun and she looks cute. If I did it, people think I'm stealing jobs away from Americans and probably need someone to verify if my documents are as fake as my accent. My neighbor who is a very liberal Hillary supporting old white woman still accuses me of appropriating white culture simply for wearing a suit and tie to work. It's not a joke, she grew up in the south and doesn't believe I was born in America. For example of the power dynamic.

[stevenleser]

328. I'll continue to read more about it but I think I understand what is attempting to be implied.

I just disagree with the implication. Each of the examples given in your link is problematic and indicates racism without the "appropriation" aspect. Another thing that bothers me is what is it that people think a culture "owns" about itself? I would argue the answer is nothing.

Example 1 talks about the Washington "Redskins". That is a simply a slur on American Aborigines. We don't need another concept to find that objectionable.

Example 2 is really about poor people being pushed out of their former neighborhoods which has happened just here in NYC multiple times to various ethnicities. It then attempts to say that since some of the folks that were pushed out were Latino and that there are now Latino restaurants owned by white people that are being attended by white people there is something wrong with that. I find that assertion very odd. Gentrification is an issue in most cities in the US.

Example 3 Uses an example that says it was cool and beautiful for one of the Kardashians to wear cornrows and yet too ethnic for African American people to do the same. Let's put this another and more simple way. You have racist people who don't like to see African Americans wearing their hair the way they want to wear it. What the Kardashians do or don't do is really not the issue.

Example 4 Is an example of really trying too hard. The issue there is that "the system" discriminates against women and minorities. I am 100% on board with that. But the example of a white woman who is into native American spirituality and opens a business regarding that is completely besides the point and really IMHO distracts from it.

Example 5 "It Lets Some People Get Rewarded for Things the Creators Never Got Credit For". If I write a piece of music or paint a painting based on a style from a group in our society that is marginalized, I'm the person who should get credit for creating it. A painter painting in an impressionist style owns the work he created. He doesnt owe impressionist painters who came before him much of anything.

Examples 6&7 Are more simply stated that negative stereotypes are racist.

Example 8 is example 3 over again.

Example 9 Doesn't make sense at all.

My experience as a mixed race person who simultaneously identifies with all of my heritage and also none of it is that people put way too much emphasis in and are too serious about their heritage and culture in terms of identity and imparting some kind of ownership or belonging. And sure, having been discriminated against multiple times (generally separately) for no less than three aspects of my heritage it can put an emphasis on that but it isn't who you are.

[romanic]

327. I think cultural appropriation is bullshit too

But the guy in the article isn't talking about "ownership" or saying whites can't like or partake in hip hop culture or music; he's saying these businesses are not including black people in the ownership or employment of these businesses. That is a legitimate grievance.

[stevenleser]

354. Potentially it is a legitimate grievance assuming it is not a superficial observation.

If any business is discriminating in its hiring practices, state and federal EEOC should be called to investigate.

Has this person done that or are they walking by a store and not seeing employees of a particular race or ethnicity and making an assumption?

Let me use another example. Asians are marginalized in our culture. If I open an Asian restaurant (One of the few major race/ethnicities that are not part of my ancestry is Asian), and I put out employment offers and the best choices are White, Hispanic and African Americans and those are the folks that I thus hire, I am not committing any offense against Asians.

[NobodyHere]

368. Why bring hip hop up at all then?

Sure hiring discrimination is wrong. But to think there's something wrong with a white owned business to play hip-hop simply because they are white is racist.

[romanic]

370. Again that's not what the guy is saying.

He's simply pointing out that these white-owned businesses selling hip hop related items have no one whose black running or selling these items. He also mentioned how black owned businesses are subject to inspections more frequently than their white counterparts.

Like I said, I think the concept of cultural appropriation is bullshit and certainly don't think hip hop should exclusively be for black people only; but I understand what the farmer is saying.

[NobodyHere]

371. Why do they need someone black to sell hip hop items?

[IronLionZion]

372. Why do people need jobs and income?

[NobodyHere]

373. Kind of avoids the point

[IronLionZion]

374. Jobs are the point

[WinkyDink]

336. And God forfend a Black person eats PIZZA! Or listens to Beethoven!

[IronLionZion]

357. Black people were denied vanilla ice cream in the Jim Crow south except on Independence Day

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/04/black-people-vanilla-ice-cream-jim-crow-independence-day


"People in Stamps used to say that the whites in our town were so prejudiced that a Negro couldn't buy vanilla ice cream. Except on July Fourth. Other days he had to be satisfied with chocolate." - Maya Angelou

One way to get away with things is to make it so crazy that no one would ever believe it.

[peggysue2]

320. Profound

This is really an honest, profound piece, asking the sort of questions we need to ask but often don't, inspiring the sort of conversations we should be having between ourselves but rarely do. Why? Because race is so prickly for many, awkward and uncomfortable. I include myself in that number. As a 60+ white woman I've only had a few black friends and often conversations skirted around the edges. Could be a generational thing because my kids have interracial relationships that appear far more open and intimate.

But I applaud Mr. Newman's honesty and frankness, a slap upside the head, offered with a generous spirit. Does it make me feel uncomfortable? Yes, a wee bit because I know I've been guilty of pussy-footing around face-to-face conversations about race. Will I insult the other party? I worry. Will I make the other person angry and seem totally out of touch? On the other hand, Mr. Newman sounds like someone I could have a hell of a conversation with, while learning a thing or two :0). So, perhaps my bias is part of my reluctance. I just don't know.

However, his complaint about his teatment--'farming while black'--hurts my heart because that treatment is so wrong, so utterly obscene on a human level. And yes, it's easy to point to a Richard Spencer and other alt-right Neo Nazi's as the source of all that's wrong. But if we aren't willing to question our day-to-day interactions, the finger pointing is . . . pretty pointless.

Thank you for including this essay. I don't do Facebook, so I'm unlikely to have found it on my own. It's something I'll remember and try to act on (try better) in the future.

Never too old to learn, even for an aging Boomer.

[IronLionZion]

340. We all have different perspectives and experiences

I really did not know what I was getting into when I posted this. When things make us feel uncomfortable it helps us to examine our own biases and privileges and other issues that we may not have thought about otherwise. And we all learn something from it.

[Jimvanhise]

322. Really?

I read his essay and he gives no example of how he KNOWS these are liberals giving him sidelong glances, etc. The cops harass him, which happens everywhere. But he gives no indication that he even knows his neighbors well enough to determine their political affiliation. And as far as his town being segregated, when and how did this happen? Have blacks tried moving into predominantly white neighborhoods and have they had bad experiences? I just see a lot of unsupported generalities here.

[IronLionZion]

325. Mortgage lenders have already faced federal penalties for discrimination

and realtors, condo boards, and other professionals involved in the housing industry.

Here's an article that might blow your mind:
"black people across the country were largely cut out of the legitimate home-mortgage market."
"Blacks were herded into the sights of unscrupulous lenders who took them for money and for sport."
"A national real-estate association advised not to sell to “a colored man of means who was giving his children a college education.”"
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

Welcome to DU!

[LovingA2andMI]

326. Block Count on this thread alone...

Three including two posters with over a 15,000 post count. Say Progressive Biases and in the Members (3) Racism does not exist....we say BS.

Again, thank you for adding this post as it EXPOSED, ALOT!!

[WinkyDink]

330. He thinks "wealthier neighborhoods" are LIBERAL? He thinks "cultural appropriation" is a

legitimate complaint?

Fine. Let him throw his lot in with Conservative Republicans.

[DemocraticWing]

334. I don't know the guy ahd haven't been to VA in a long time, but I believe him 100%

I have seen so much of this in my own life, where white liberal people are still segregated and dealing in white supremacy. People (rightly) called it out among some Sanders supporters in 2016, and it was also a big problem with Hillary supporters. Honestly it's not really about the personalities (which is why I hated fighting about that in primary, like one side had the good white people and the other had the bad) because it's sort of our problem as a whole.

I've heard white people who volunteer for social justice organizations say something racist to a black person. I've heard dozens of stories from black people about white "allies" showing up in black spaces and doing all kinds of awful shit. That doesn't mean we're all bad or whatever, but white people on the left do need to interrogate how white supremacy affects our thinking and our actions.

I always feel bad when I realize I have a subconscious reaction that, once I think about it, is kind of racist. But I've also talked to so many people who know exactly what I'm talking about. We were raised in a culture that taught us white supremacy in so many subtle and not-so-subtle ways; that de-programming is our work that we MUST do. I can only hope that one day we will dismantle institutional racism, but we have so far to go.

[WinkyDink]

335. So let him side with the Republicans, like the insane Ben Carson. See how THAT will help.

[IronLionZion]

342. When a sports team gets coaching and training to improve their trouble spots

it doesn't mean it's time to switch teams.

[WinkyDink]

338. Ryan. McConnell. Bannon. Pence. Graham. Mulvaney. TRUMP. And this guy thinks LIBERALS

should be his target?!

GMAGDB here.

[LexVegas]

339. People are so busy going after that easy fix, going after that Confederate flag, that theyre not..

doing the hard thing"

I've lived in Virginia most of my life and this is absolute truth.

[WellDarn]

352. I just wanted to thank you for hanging

on this string.

This has been perhaps the most discouraging 2 days I have spent lurking, and then commenting, on DU over the past decade.

[IronLionZion]

355. I'm surprised it's gotten this big this quick.

It apparently brought up some difficult thoughts and feelings among our group.

I always felt grateful to allies in the struggle long before I was born who made the world a better place for me. I feel more encouraged and think our best days are ahead of us as long as we keep moving forward.

[cannabis_flower]

366. My thoughts..

He makes way too many assumptions. There are racists on both sides.

There really are liberals with hidden racism. But there are liberals who aren't. There are also people who would like to support POC but don't know what they can do. Sure, you can speak up when you see it. You can voice your support, but what else.

Here's where I might have people yell at me. Something I see as a white person is people who assume I'm a racist just because I'm white. As a substitute teacher I have students who are misbehaving and when I say something, they say I'm just picking on them because they are black (or Hispanic, by the way, I'm married to a very dark guy from Honduras. ) I usually point out another student of a similar color who is not misbehaving and say " I don't have a problem with them, and they're the same color as you". POC (some, not all) need to stop assuming that all white people are prejudiced against them or using it to excuse bad behavior. I've also had POC rude to me for no apparent reason. These are usually people on the street or in a store. Perhaps, many white people have done things to them but don't assume I'm going to because others have. Just like POC don't like it when a white woman clutches her purse or crosses the street to avoid them, white people don't like it when they smile and say hello and you frown at them and act rude for no reason or refuse to help with a small favor ( I once had a woman who refused to hand me a little toilet paper when there wasn't any in my stall, I asked if she could hand me a little and put my hand there and she said something like "you should have checked before you went in there, bitch", don't tell me that wasn't racist. )

Sure POC have been mistreated over the years but we all need to learn to treat everyone the way we would like to be treated

All I'm saying is white people, don't assume all POC are up to no good. If you wouldn't call the police on a white person in a similar situation, don't call the police on a POC. If you would stop to help a white person, do the same for a POC.

If you're a POC don't assume all white people evil and act like you hate them.

[romanic]

367. I agree.

This is why I as a MOC, I always speak up when I see people broadbrush other groups of people. I myself had a racist experiences with white people, but never would I assume every single white person in existence will call me a "half-breed" or "mutt".

I do think the guy in the article is broadbrushing white liberals, but I also think his observations about what he sees in his hometown holds weight too.

[steve2470]

369. #FarmingWhileBlack: Black Va. Farmer Says Nervous White Women in Yoga Pants More Dangerous Than...

#FarmingWhileBlack: Black Va. Farmer Says ‘Nervous White Women in Yoga Pants’ More Dangerous Than Blatant White Supremacists

http://www.theroot.com/farmingwhileblack-black-va-farmer-says-nervous-white-1795498504

When discussing the dangers of “____ while black” in this white-settler colonial project known as the United States, the media focus is typically on expensive shops, wealthy white enclaves, airports, parks, city sidewalks, predatory hypermarkets—you know, any place where white people are known to click their heels three times—9-1-1—and lock all the Negroes away.

Now Chris Newman, the owner of Sylvanaqua Farms in Albemarle County, Va., has broken down the dangers of farming while black so that it can forever and consistently be broke.

In a Facebook entry that has since gone viral, Newman posted an image of white supremacists gathered at Charlottesville, Va.’s Lee Park and waving that filthy rag of a Confederate flag in protest of the City Council’s vote to remove a statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee.

White supremacist Richard Spencer also led a lynch mob in support of the statue. Wielding torches in a nighttime ritual reminiscent of a Ku Klux Klan rally, the mob chanted, “We will not be replaced”; “Blood and soil,” which is a Nazi rallying cry; and “Russia is our friend.”