"What is the end goal?" A conversation with my formerly Republican brother in law.

[retrowire]

Hello, I wanted to include DU in this discussion that I had with my brother in law the other day.

A background on him, he's of the traditional mindset of the Republican party. He is NOT a bad Republican, the ones we've come to understand make the majority of the party today. No, my BIL is learned, and is rooted in the traditional "less federal power, more state power" ideology. He is gay. He believes that everyone should have equal rights, same as we do, it's just that the states should have more power than the federal.

He believes that the rich take too much and should be taxed more. Basically, he felt Bernie Sanders was the best choice for us. And ever since the most recent election he had certainly understood that the GOP as it is today is NOT traditionally conservative or Republican by any definition. It's something else. So, knowing that, drop your swords and put out the torches.

Basically, I asked him this... "What is the end goal of today's Republican Party? Their policies will kill millions. It will only make things infinitely harder for the middle class and lower while empowering themselves. What are they striving for? I've often wondered, are they saving all this money to build a spaceship and leave us all to die here? But I know that sounds stupid. Bernie Sanders stated that it was a greed that he couldn't understand. That they are addicted to get more money than they could ever use. What is it?"

My BIL then said this.

"Bernie is not far from the truth. The truth is, it's more than greed. They're literally psychopaths. This really does come down to the conclusion that they are devoid of empathy. They don't really have emotion. They get to that level of power because of the way they are, and they surround themselves with one another because that's in their nature. They don't have an end goal because they literally don't have that foresight. All this is, is self gratification for the short term and they can't see ahead because they simply aren't capable of it."

It was a depressing conclusion to say the least. But I can say this. If they all lack empathy and surround themselves with one another, they'll surely implode and eat their own. That's just a fact.

Fellow DUers, what do you think? And do you think there's an end goal or is it just short-sighted self gratification?

[beachbum bob]

1. heritage foundation is a good place to look if you want any idea on what the end goals

are. So far, the trump admin and conservatives are going at each one:
1. end all social safety nets
2. end EPA, OSHA, banking regulations, worker safety and health
3. eliminate all consumer protections as well as reducing and/or eliminating the ability to sue
4, destroy all unions, repeal prevailing wage act
5. safeguard the upper 1%, all corporations and businesses
6. eliminate and/or reduce Social Security and Medicare
7. eliminate and/or reduce Medicaid


thers is NO SECRETS here at all on what the end game is

[CanonRay]

4. Nailed it.

Look at their own writings.

[retrowire]

6. That's not the end game.

The end game asks, WHY do those things you listed? What is the purpose of doing all that?

Those are a means to the end. Not the actual end.

[yardwork]

12. Their stated purpose is to "make America strong."

The theory is that safety nets "make us weak," and that the government wastes money on lazy people. The theory is that eliminating taxes and government regulation "give people choices" and that will result in some magical "invisible hand" of the market somehow making all the hardworking people rich. This is where the theory breaks down.

The extremely wealthy people promoting this ideology know that the end game is for them to control all the wealth and resources. They believe that they deserve it. They know that most people will have nothing, but that doesn't bother them.

Everybody else who promotes this ideology is being conned. They think that they will benefit but they won't.

[retrowire]

13. Sounds like economic genocide.

Eradicate the lesser people with starvation while telling them, "work harder!"

[yardwork]

17. It's a common model throughout history.

Look at plantations in the pre-Civil War south. A few people controlled all the resources. Everybody else was a slave or a poor white.

Among people who follow today's Republican ideology, their fantasy is that they will be among the very wealthy. The winners. They believe that they deserve it. Trump assures them of this.

It's fairly easy to brainwash people by getting them angry and resentful of others. Just tell them all day long, for decades, that foolish liberals are taking away their money and giving it to lazy worthless "other" people. Once people believe this, the lizard brain kicks in and they'll do anything.

[KPN]

42. It is.

[lastlib]

15. "Wealth for the wealthy, power for the powerful....."

Comfort for the comfortable, affliction for the afflicted, poverty for the poor.

[aggiesal]

60. Bingo ...

GOP = Greedy One Percent

Everything they do, is a means to get the GOP more money and more power, PERIOD!!!

[annabanana]

27. So WE can be their slave labor, nearby & compliant. . . . n/t

[brush]

34. Guess they'll have all the money in the world then because their corporations...

will no longer have any customers to buy their products.

We'll all be in poverty from the pennies we were paid by the geniuses running everything, or should I san running the country into the ground.

The OP is right, they have no empathy and no vision of an endgame.

[KPN]

43. What then?

[brush]

54. Then they turn on each other to get even more money...distopia on steroids.

Won't be pretty. We'll pick up the pieces and start over if there's anything left.

Actually that's just an extrapolation of Randian philosophy extended out to nth degree, but we'll never get there as there are more humans with the empathy gene than those who lack it (most repugs), who will eventually rise up for what's right and stop the Howard Roarks of the world.

[KPN]

56. I'm thinking we're closer to "rise up" than we think.

If we don't win in 2018 and/or 2020, it will happen in my lifetime ... I'm 66. Or at least I hope it will.

[brush]

57. I'm with you on that.

[retrowire]

68. This. That's the question. Nt

[Worktodo]

69. The end goal is to hold onto power at all costs

[CozyMystery]

7. They are in pruning mode

I agree with you.

In addition, I think that they are taking power over life and death in order to further their desire for more money. Those who live will benefit them in some way. Those who are expendable and may die include (but are not limited to) the poor, the mentally ill, those with pre-existing conditions, those who are an undesired color or religion or gender or sexual orientation or nationality, undocumented immigrants, the elderly, those who fight wars for them, people in other countries who get in the way of their desires.

Basically, I think they are in pruning mode -- get rid of impediments that are not going to help them reach their power and financial goals.

I also agree with the OP that they are psychopaths and so are not a few of their supporters.

[rzemanfl]

11. Welcome to DU. n/t

[KPN]

46. Yes, thinning the herd.

A classic human strategy for achieving biologic sustainability. They have equated their own economic sustainability with that -- biological sustainability.

It's them or us folks.

[n2doc]

71. they call the poor "useless eaters" n/t

[lark]

24. It's the serfs and nobles model.

Serfs live at the tolerance of the nobles (1%er), have to pay the nobles for the right to live on "their" land, and barely survive. At any time they can be jailed, injured or killed by the nobles and there is no recourse at all. Nobels live lives of luxury and basically do anything they want without any accountability. That is their true end goal.

[Freddie]

26. And nobles have to live in guarded palaces

Because the serfs will kill them or kidnap their children for ransom. That's where we're headed.

[world wide wally]

33. A 2 class system...The aristocracy and the working poor.

[lastlib]

63. Feudalism.....

Democracy is a major impediment to that. It has to be abolished.

[world wide wally]

64. Eliminate a middle class and it becomes much easier

[spanone]

31. i.e. the wild west all over again.

[barbtries]

2. i think he's right.

they are craven. empathy, sympathy, are emotions they do not possess. they are clever but they are not smart, because any end game they may be contemplating with these relentlessly draconian policies they're forcing on us will inevitably end in their destruction as well.
it's so funny because i've also wondered about some possible space program only they know about wherein they can escape to a new planet after they've destroyed this one, but that is unrealistic. one planet and we're all stuck here together on it. maybe in the 25th century.
we should have gone after the gwbush administration. trump could not have happened if they had suffered consequences for their crimes and they never did, and now they seem like reasonable people compared to the republicans these days. i still shake my head.

[KPN]

48. Yep. "Nice guys come in last" as they say.

And we're always nice people -- because we are nice people.

[justiceischeap]

3. Personally I think it's greed and power

I'd imagine for people like today's republicans (and some democrats too--lets be fair) if they have a lot of money, they want the power to go with it. For example, Trump, it's all about the Power with a capital "P." He surely doesn't need the paltry salary but I think for him it's about Power (he's obviously looking at his bottom line too, I'm not saying that but I think his overwhelming motivation is Power).

As far as the rest of them, it's the greed. When their careers in politics is over, they'll hop on the lobbyist gravy train and make some real money.

So, IMO, if your goals in life are to obtain power or money (obscene amounts), then you're likely to not give a shit about anyone or anything that you see as impediments to your goals. So what if millions lose their healthcare? That'll just help the GOP rep down the road make more money somehow.

For me, I've become accustomed to the greed and need for power from these fucks, it's the lawlessness that's doing me in. They aren't even trying to pretend to follow the rule of law (or adhere to the Constitution). Why would they, who will hold them accountable? 2018 is a dream for the Democrats but it's not a given, not with the gerrymandering and voter suppression and Dog only knows what Trump and the GOP will do between then and now to further hamper voters.

And the nut jobs that support these morally-deficient rat fuckers want nothing short of a civil war. They want to relitigate the North vs South war and hope beyond hope that the South will somehow rise again so they can put their racist statues back in a place of honor and hooded white sheets are normal everyday fashion wear and women know their place and if they don't they'll beat it into them.

That said, I know they all aren't batshit insane but it sure seems like it.

[Siwsan]

5. Your BIL sounds like my 'old school' Republican neighbor

We had a long conversation, before the election. He told me he didn't think he could ever vote for trump*, and he really liked and would easily vote Bernie Sanders.

He did also say that he didn't think he could ever vote for Hillary. His wife is a big Hillary supporter, so who knows if she was able to sway him. I would never even think of asking.

[pangaia]

8. Your BIL is right on the money.

All the billions and billions of words and trainloads full of ink are wasted on the simple fact that these people are emotionally and intellectually unbalanced, psychopaths, if that is the right diagnosis, for whom there is no cure.

They are a great danger to all humanity...and the planet and must be 'exterminated' with a tank full of metaphorical RAID!

[democrank]

9. Not all Republicans are the same, but.....

the majority of those in power seem to have a single, guiding goal that rules their meetings, speeches, legislation. They're The Entitlement Party, with leaders who are white and male....just as things are intended to be. All others....non-white or female....go to the back of the white bus, exactly where they belong.

Republicans in power act as though they're entitled to the biggest tax breaks, the most protections, the best health insurance, and majority rule from here on out. Anyone who tries to get a foothold in the land they own must be cut back down to size.

It's power taken to an obscene level, void of principle, steeped in antipathy toward any of the lesser folks. That's how they can cheer their own college heritage "scholarships" but try their hardest to demean affirmative action in education. It' how they can sit in back rooms scouring over ways to cut back on Meals on Wheels so they can give bigger tax breaks to multi-millionaires.

Any shred of empathy they have is reserved for others exactly like them.

[mercuryblues]

10. I have said the same thing

They are incapable of thinking about the real outcome of their policies. Take their healthcare plan. We knew it would be a disaster, yet they firmly believe they are right and the number crunchers are wrong. When they cut SSDI and people start living on the streets, it won't be because of the cuts, it will be because people are gaming the system.

If they believe something will work, it will. When it doesn't it is because they didn't go far enough, they negotiated. They can never be wrong. When they believe something will fail, they will do their damndest to make sure it will. Take the ACA, they have fought it and sued to weaken it. trump's executive order will further sink it. See they were right all along! their fools swallow it because they have been conditioned to believe that anything that liberals do is bad for the country.

Another thing that strikes me is the disconnect between them and their voters. When politician's talk about small business they mean an S-corp. (set up by millionaires for tax purposes and have typically less than 5 employees) The voters think it is Mom and Pop stores on Main St. When the politicians talk about red tape regulation and how it dampens business startups and they need to go. They mean do away with regulations that protect consumers. Their voters think deregulations will help small start-ups.

[Blaukraut]

20. They know damn well what their policies do. It's by design.

I believe their end game is two-fold. The immediate goal is to cut taxes and starve/kill all social programs. They're actually not doing this to fill their coffers some more, even though that's an added benefit. The ultimate, long term goal (in my opinion anyway) is to cull the herd. Eugenics. Population control.

The religious right has thrown a minor wrench into part of this by insisting on banning abortion and birth control.

[KPN]

50. Yup.

[cannabis_flower]

14. This has happened before

Think French Revolution or Nicholas and Alexandra. The rich and powerful can only go so far before the huddled masses turn on them and create some real class warfare.

[KPN]

52. Exactly and concisely.

[gordianot]

16. You can be easily replaced when you become too expensive never mind you paid for anything.

This is why Republicans use and support the so called pro life agenda. The religious right wing zealots are tools. The GOP is Medieval in their agenda for serfs.

[smirkymonkey]

18. What do they think will happen when people have nothing left to lose?

It will get ugly.

[brush]

59. Yes. People will not go no bread while the 1% eat cake.

[PatSeg]

19. Your brother-in-law

nailed it. I have said similar things about republicans today, hardly my father's republican party. "Self gratification for the short term", there are no long term goals for them anymore. I think they get all wrapped up in the process, like they are playing a perpetual game of Monopoly, but one with no rules and cheating is okay.

I also think it goes beyond greed. I think winning is an addiction for them, often not even caring what they win, as long as their opponents lose.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

21. Look at Forbes richest people in the world.

Amazing collection of mega wealthy in various fields and dynastic accumulation all over the world. They are likely competing with each other. We stress competition in schools and recreation. Plus somehow misogyny really took hold and that prevents empathy to even be on the radar.

Looking to the Montana election really hammers home how blatantly vicious and violent this is turning them. Its only made worse by the media. We are on a downward spiral. I think they know that and don't care.

Just came across this to help understand the mindset.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/axis-of-evil-speechwriter-recoils-from-trumps-gop-the-conservative-mind-has-become-diseased/

[KPN]

53. Yes, Game of Thrones.

[-Steph-]

22. Imo, the Republican party of today is just a front for the very greediest of the wealthiest 1%.

Their end goal is to continue to enrich themselves at any cost. They'll go to any lengths, including colluding with our enemies, if it will line their pockets. Through gerrymandering, voter suppression, and other evil tactics they are able to give themselves an advantage in getting their people into elected positions. Then they buy off, blackmail, or replace said officials when they need to, to get their bidding done. To get the masses to vote against their own interests they brainwash them via right-wing media. Through Fox News, right-wing radio, websites like Briebart, and via social media platforms they are effectively able to convince ordinary Americans to vote against their own interests.

If you ask me, the end goal is literally about lining the pockets of the very greediest of the 1%. A handful of the greediest, most merciless and treasonous people America has to offer are running the whole show, IMO.

[The Polack MSgt]

23. The end state they desire

Is a hereditary Gentry/Serf feudal society.

They want to go back - all the way back to before the Magna Carta

They want to be absolute masters of life and death in their own little duchies

[annabanana]

28. this n/t

[lark]

37. Yep, I totally agree.

Nobles and serfs is their desired world model.

[Nay]

55. Yep, this is it. And they are deliberately culling the herd because they KNOW

they have to get rid of billions of people pretty quickly if they themselves are going to have a decent planet to live on. Thus the cuts in programs, etc. Fifty years from now they will do nothing while coastal cities drown. They will hire servants/serfs and force good-looking young women into sexual slavery and let everyone else fight over scraps outside the gates.

And for those who think that the billions will overpower the rich behind their gates -- well, in the past this happened because most anyone could make a bow and arrows or a knife or axe, but now the high-tech weaponry will all be on the rich side. They will only have to push a button. They won't even have to get their own hands bloody.

[bucolic_frolic]

25. Money, power, greed, control, self-righteousness

Reserve all the benefits of society for those able to pay and make sure
they are the ones able to pay.

It is total private property rights. Rule of law and keep passing the money
up to us.

You can't afford something? Too bad. We can.

No healthcare? Too bad. We're not paying for yours. You can die first.

Conservatism used to mean efficiency, and wise use of resources, and
slow evolutionary change. This modern version has tossed all that.
It's radical and rampant and focused on themselves and money.

[gopiscrap]

29. all republicans are souless shit bags

there are two strains of them. The ones who have education and therefore usually more money are using the ones who aren't educated.

the ones who aren't educated are being used by the rich and being spoon fed idiocy from fox

either way, non of them have any sense of humanity. I agree they are sociopaths and psychopaths who need to be removed from the rest of society lest they totally ruin this country

[RKP5637]

30. I agree with everything your BIL said. From what I've seen/read, it's cyclic. Given the present

course the US will collapse, and it will not be pretty. The GOP, they have no end point goals than greed, self-enrichment and power. It's a hard-coded brain function. Just a quick glace at the GOP, their methodology, their modus operandi .... it's pretty easy to figure our where we're headed.

The main problem in the US is, we have hoards of willfully stupid people. The GOP knows this. For some reason, the democrats never quite seem to get it.

[TNLib]

32. Money Greed and Jealousy

they see billionaires like Gates, Soro's, Buffet, Zuckerberg ect.. who are brilliant and very wealthy and they are jealous of their wealth and influence.

Take Trump I doubt he's a billionaire but hes a billionaire pretend/wannabe that craves attention and wants to be admired and respected and will cheat, steal and throw our nation under the bus just to attain some faux sense of respect.

[get the red out]

35. He is absolutely correct

I think gratification, and power are a drug to them.

[sdfernando]

36. To put it more succinctly....

Last edited Fri May 26, 2017, 12:38 PM - Edit history (1)

the republican party as it exists today is a cult. If we are survive as a nation it will be because the cult members metaphorically (or literally) drink the Cool-Aide.

[mwooldri]

38. Fake Republicans taking over the Republican Party.

that's how I see it. Ronald Reagan I sincerely believe would not have gone as far as today's Republicans have.

[KPN]

39. Want the truth? I agree with your brother.

First, the why ... and then the truth. Why: They don't care about the "little people". The end game for them is they have it all, everyone else -- you're on your own, sink or swim, likely sink, and "we" (they) don't give a fuck. They deserve to have it all in their view.

So this begs the questions: in light of this, what is our end game? and what are the means for getting there?

Now to the truth part. As I ponder all of this, it is hard for me not to feel anger. As a lifelong Democrat, I have always been confident that in the end, we will prevail. Year after year, election after election going back to Nixon. Yet I am consistently disappointed, sometimes to the point of being "mildly nauseous". I am disappointed by the results of elections when we lose, and the relatively minor gains we actually achieve when we win. (My apologies to those who believe in incrementalism. I have real difficulty with the two steps forward, one step back rate of progress. I am 66 and now feel like I may never see the future I've always been so doggedly optimistic about despite the many setbacks.)

The Truth: So I am angry. The Rs (their wealthy leaders and their puppets) will do virtually anything to gain and maintain control. We know that! We have seen it in the last 3 Presidential elections that they have won (Bush1, Bush2, Trump). We've seen it in all the voter suppression; we've seen it in Citizen's United; we've seen it in the blatant obstruction of everything Obama; we've seen it in the decades long character assassination of Hillary and all things Clinton; we've seen it in the fictionalizing of science, e.g., global warming denial; we've seen it in deregulation derangement that leads not to greater competition but massive centralization of industry/corporations/wealth/media; we've seen it in their control of the media and its messaging; we've seen it in Garland v Gorsuch; we've seen it in the creation of an all volunteer military that exists and can happen only because being part of it is one of the only ways many people can actually see their way to financial security today; and the list goes on and on. We've seen it! They aim to dominate, control and in my opinion, kill us off if need be.

The TRUTH? They are out to get us (because the world can only sustain so many people and better them than us) and they are doing everything in their power to make sure that democracy/elections don't stand in their way. AND THEY ARE WINNING! So it's either them or us. Here's what I really think: They will not implode politically; they simply will not allow that to happen. And if we don't turn this around in 2018 and 2020, democracy is lost. They will have won even though we -- the "little people" -- vastly outnumber them; it's over as far as beating them via the democratic process. What then? Them or us? I know what I think. You?

[Permanut]

40. Jeez, what a great thread..

Great question: Why are they doing this? Great answers above, and very astute references to the psychology of the greedy psychopath. "Winning is an addiction", as PatSeg says above, and there's a couple of other things going on as well. The greed, the power, the lust, provide meaning in their otherwise meaningless lives. There is no spiritual component, and there is no cure.

I don't have formal credentials to diagnose Sociopathic Personality Disorder, but then again, I'm not a world class chef, but I know a hamburger when I see one.

[hamsterjill]

41. Who did he vote for in the 2016 election?

Just curious.

[retrowire]

49. I believe it was a libertarian in the primaries

And Hillary in general.

[cilla4progress]

44. Perhaps the ones leading the most vile current version of the GOP

are damaged children who've grown into sociopathic adults

Certainly trump is.

Sometimes I flash forward 5 years in America: what will my life be? I'm a 62 year old professional white woman progressive who benefitted from the liberal policies of the 1950s-70s. Own my home, college-educated, married, good insurance (by grace of husband's government job), mother of a 24 year old daughter, comfortable.

Will I simply lower my head and try to stay under the radar as trump and his minions eviscerate our economy, environment, civil rights, immigrants, gays, women, POC? I could get away with it. Will his policies come for me and my lifestyle directly? Perhaps not in overt ways, as they aim to keep people like me subdued and comfortable. They will focus - at least initially - on the most vulnerable. Think of the good Germans....

It will be my voice (my mouth) and my activism that will expose and endanger me. I will not go quietly. I am getting my affairs in order so that as an elder - a crone - I can stand up for my brothers and sisters in my last years.

That is my plan.

[Texin]

45. Your BIL is right about those in positions of power within the GOP as it is now.

The ones who are in leadership roles and those wannabes are pretty much cut from the same cloth and the sorry excuse for human life that comprise their braindead constituencies are the willing and witless suckers who are so consumed with not being identified as the lowest rung of the social strata that they've allowed their jealousies, irrational hatred of "others" and their own psychological and emotional damages to rule their behaviors. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there are three types of people in the world: those that want what's theirs; those that want to share; and those that want what's yours AND theirs.

[GitRDun]

47. He's exactly correct.

I have spent a considerable amount of time around these folks in my career.

The money is just a scorecard. They want more because they want it.

I've sat thru meetings to divvy up bonuses and argued with these folks why you can't make the bonus pool so top heavy. They minimize the contributions of middle management and staff.

They don't SEE anyone but themselves and their score.

They cannot be taught or reasoned with.

Every action is about maintaining wealth and political power in the face of a demographic tidal wave that is coming:

Gerrymander voting districts, make voting harder, control women's bodies, eliminate the estate tax, etc.

The only thing that can be done is to call this what it is and fight it.

[Caliman73]

51. He is mostly right. I would question what he means by "States Rights" though.

The purpose of Federalism is to create a tension between the national government and the subnational governments (States). That tension should result in what protects the rights of the people to the largest extent.

Conservatives claim to support states rights, but when it comes to cannabis laws, they appear to want the federal government to continue to crack down on it even in states where it is legal. They want a Federal "personhood" law which would outlaw abortion and many forms of contraception.

States Rights is always a tricky conversation. I don't think that the Federal government should dictate every little aspect of life in all of the states, but it would be interesting to see what his thoughts are regarding those issues. We had a weak central government before the Constitution which is why we now have the Constitution. The Articles of Confederation granted States the balance of power and nearly cost us the Revolution because the States did not want to pay for the army to keep fighting the war. There should be balance but the balance should always lean toward protecting the rights, health, and safety of individuals.

[procon]

58. My own brother has fallen in with the worst description of today's Republicans.

I asked him the same question; what was the purpose of what the Republicans are doing? What did he expect would happen if the Republicans can successfully transfer trillions of dollars from ordinary people (like him!) to the rich? He sees that as a win. Not in terms of policy, effectiveness or outcome, but a win in terms of sports. It would be a victory over all his perceived hated and evil opponents, liberals and Democrats (like me), POC, foreigners, progress and changing time.

The GOP makes vague promises to people like my brother, enticing them with the strutting, cartoonish characters that are the stereotypical personification of heroic, macho, manliness and self esteem, much as the matinee version of John Wayne or Superman that he grew up with. He wants to be right.

Its a desperate obsession with him now, and he wants to belong to the winning team, he wants the big trophy to brag about, and the headlines that will prove he was not conned. He wants all his biases, and fears, and hates, and bigotry to be validated. These are his so call truths and he clings to them because no sane person would ever throw away the last decade of his life like an old fool who was too stupid and stubborn to know fact from fiction.

[disillusioned73]

66. Wow..

I feel for you, having a brother with that mindset can not be easy.. But your right, it has become a sport to some.. the twitterverse is a prime example of the day-to-day battles and score keeping that they revel in - it is exhausting..

[DavidDvorkin]

61. Plutocracy

That's been their goal for many decades, and they're close to achieving it.

[Orsino]

62. Four additional points:

1. "They get to that level of power" because Big Money trains them, runs them, installs them in office, keeps them there, and keeps them obedient.

2: Big Money does all that because we allow it.

3. The "self-gratification" is therefore not that of the Republican representative himself, but of the billionaires he ultimately represents. One could make the case for some rank-and-file GOP voters casting feel-good ballots out of hate and selfishness.

4. Your BIL is keeping himself at arm's length from the truth. These effects are those of unregulated capitalism; he should be voting to strengthen government, not to weaken it, in order to regulate capitalism--though electing better people is paramount.

[rusty fender]

65. I think your BIL

has cracked the Repuke/Tea Party code, and like the scorpion that kills its ride(the frog) over the pond, drowning them both because it's in his nature

[JHB]

70. Reversing the 20th century (except for the superpower part)...

...is the most succinct way I've heard it put.

Get Movement Conservatives talking without their guard up, and the time they point to as America's glory days is the Guilded Age.

A time when Great Men built Great Commercial Empires, of steel, of oil, of railroad kingdoms spanning a continent. And we're free to squash just about anything that got in their way.

A time when the environment was known as "undeveloped land" or "unexploited resources" or "that place we dump the waste".

When labor laws were weak or nonexistent, and calling in thugs to deal with uppity unionists was just "putting an end to this nonsense", even when the thugs wore police or national guard uniforms.

A time when financial panics every few years were mere bumps in the road, at least for anyone worth speaking of. And if you weren't, well, then who cares what happened to you? Go west, young man! Or Gramps!

I mean really, just google "guided age mansions". That's what it's all about, baby! Living like kings, and ruling your own empire! With no tyrannical government crimping your ability to be a tyrant yourself.

Except for our being a global superpower. That part of the 20th century they're fine with. As long as they don't have to pay the taxes needed to maintain it.

[applegrove]

72. I think they do not want to see white men lose power and wealth.