Can we say "TREASON" yet?

[world wide wally]

[uponit7771]

1. tRussia is not going to like these headlines.

[justiceischeap]

2. There's lots of lawyers talking about espionage on Twitter.

Is espionage considered treason.

[gibraltar72]

3. Malcom Nance

says espionage act of 1917.

[Barack_America]

4. Treason.

Yep, appears we can.

[MedusaX]

5. Unfortunately all these leaks have done is give 45 an opportunity to Pardon everyone

For their Federal crimes....

Forcing NYAG to bear the burden of bringing anyone to justice...


Sure it is fun to know all the new info...

But the timing is way off.,.,

Almost to the point of making one wonder if the leaks were strategically timed to benefit the Kremlin Klan.......

Not trying to be a wet blanket on the espionage revelation celebrations...
But unless 45 is plucked from power in the next 24 hours....
We may find ourselves having a
presidential pardon pity party

[BigmanPigman]

6. This is enormous and Fux News isn't covering it!

[GeoWilliam750]

7. No

Treason is very specific, and only 30 people have been charged with it since 1789. Generally, it occurs during a declared war, although John Brown also was charged with Treason.

"Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open Court."

It is very difficult to prove. The Espionage Act of 1917, on the other hand, is broader, and easier to prosecute. Whilst most Americans would regard most people prosecuted under the Act as being "treasonous", Treason is very specific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

[TomSlick]

8. Thank You

I've been resisting quoting the definition of treason in response to posts using that word. A conviction for treason for cooperation with the Russians would amount to a declaration of war. What is being described as Jared's wanting a covert comms with Russians would be a violation of the Espionage Act.

What we need is a good word. Obtaining national secrets for a foreign government at any time is spying. Going a hostile powers bidding in a time of war is treason. What is a good word for doing the Russian's bidding not in a time of war? What do you call some one who violates the Espionage Act?

[WinkyDink]

10. A spy. Same as Robert Hanssen.

[GeoWilliam750]

11. I wonder how wide they might cast the net with the Espionage Act

Still thinking that the biggest net with the smallest mesh is probably RICO

[TomSlick]

12. I think that's right legally

but I still want to word to call people that betray their country to do the bidding of another country but not in time of war and not spying. Preferably a word I can use discussing this with my mother.

RICO or Espionage Act violator doesn't cut it. What word means peace-time traitor?

[GeoWilliam750]

13. I think that "traitor" might still be used

[TomSlick]

14. For want of a better word,

I think it will have to do - at least until a better word comes along.

[Igel]

16. "Turncoat"?

The words "treason" and "traitor" predate the legal definitions. People are citing the definitions from legal jargon. Legal jargon took a common word and specialized it.

The jargon doesn't rule the larger community of English speakers.

It's like "accelerate" in physics, or "normal" in physics and math. "Accelerate" is a change in velocity, and that can include a change in direction or a decrease in speed. A "normal" is a perpendicular line. Nobody's going to give you a hard time if you don't use those bits of jargon correctly, unless you're in a class or situation where the jargon is the accepted speech variety.

[TomSlick]

17. You're right - but

It is clearly so that the word traitor predates the legal definition. The problem is that posters are taking the word "traitor" and jumping to the death penalty - which comes from the statute.

If "traitor" does not necessarily mean a violation of the treason statute, then it's an appropriate word. If "traitor" means the death penalty is available, then it means a violation of the treason statute.

Maybe it would help if DUers - who I assume are generally opposed to capital punishment - would not make an exception for Trump and his mob.

[WinkyDink]

9. Been, for months.

[oasis]

15. Who can seriously name it anything else but treason, by traitors.