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[Baitball Blogger]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Baitball Blogger) on Sat Jul 7, 2012, 03:30 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Robb]

1. The only person I know with an automatic generator

...is my mother. She sleeps with an oxygen generator, though, so I sort of like the idea of her power staying on, because I sort of like the idea of her breathing.

Sorry you can't sleep, though.

[Baitball Blogger]

2. In that case, it would be acceptable.

I would understand the higher purpose. And, of course, the issue is normal residential and not someone trying to sneak in an assisted living/group home into an area that does not yet approve of them.

[MineralMan]

3. Yah, well, I think you're not going to win this one.

For a lot of people, any power outage is an emergency of sorts. One that lasts for, as you say, two to five hours, is something a lot of people don't want to tolerate, so they invest in automatic generators that come on when the power fails. Lots of people here in Minnesota have those, because a power failure in the winter means that a home's furnace stops, too, and when it's 10 below, that's a bad thing.

Now, I don't have an automatic generator that starts whenever the power fails, but if the power is out for an hour during the winter, I haul my generator out from the garage, plug it into a special outlet I installed on the outside of my house that switches the furnace over to generator power, and powers some lights. I fire it up and go back to bed or whatever, knowing that my furnace will keep working.

There are many other reasons people consider power outages to be an emergency. Some are very real emergencies, like folks who rely on an oxygen concentrator for health problems or many other things.

As for your inability to return to sleep, check at your local drugstore. They sell very comfortable earplugs that will correct that problem for you, while your neighbor with the automatic generator has power for whatever he or she thinks is very important. Sometimes solutions are simple.

[Baitball Blogger]

7. Thanks for the information, but there is a major flaw in applying your

facts to the situation. Automatic generators don't wait for someone to drag them out and plug them in. They just turn on. Which means they turn on when there is no one at home. Why would normal, healthy people need to have them turn on at night when they're asleep? There's no reason. It's a convenience for them which is an inconvenience for everyone else. There are plenty of battery operated, Atomic clocks out there that make the need for an Automatic Generator unnecessary just to keep the clocks running on time.

In this case, there is no one who is on an oxygen tank, but there are growing suspicions that there is more at play here because restrictions were broken for the placement of the generator. And, of course, it doesn't help where the individual decided to place it. Sometimes it feels like it's an Auschwitz experiment waiting to happen.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

11. What you think they need

isn't as relevant as what they think they need, or simply, what they want.

Sorry, but I don't agree with the idea that my neighbor gets to decide when I need or don't need power.

[Baitball Blogger]

17. That's not how noise ordinances are handled in other areas.

In fact, a noise nuisance is actionable because it interferes with the enjoyment of your property when it encroaches on your property.

So, the question is, should you have a right to encroach on everyone else just to have the power to keep your clocks running on time?

My guess is that this issue has already been resolved in a court of law and I'm hoping someone will PM me the case. I'll take secondary law as well as primary.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

21. I long for the day

When the biggest complaint I have is that my neighbors have a noisy generator.

[Baitball Blogger]

23. This is just one straw of many.

I long for the day when the generator is the only thing I have to worry about my neighbors.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

24. Ah, then isn't really the generator

That's just the latest thing that bugs you.

That makes much more sense.

[Baitball Blogger]

36. On the contrary. I tolerated it as long as I could.

I'm just ready to start fighting back.

[MineralMan]

22. Again, you're unlikely to be able to change the situation.

No doubt the generator is annoying, but if there is no law or ordinance in your area that prohibits them, you're stuck. So, to prevent further annoyance, a package of inexpensive earplugs from your local drugstore will solve your sleep problem when this occurs.

Likening the sound of a generator next door to Auschwitz seems to me to be quite a stretch. Since I do not know why your neighbor has spent the large amount of money these generators cost to make sure the power stays on, I can't comment on that. It doesn't sound like you know why, either. The fact remains that the generator is probably legal. They certainly are in the city neighborhood where I live. So, dealing with that inevitability on the few occasions when there is a power outage by inserting a pair of earplugs when it happens seems a reasonable way to cope.

If a law or ordinance has been broken, of course, you can contact whoever enforces such things and have them address the problem. Even then, however, earplugs will be your best way to deal with it in the meantime.

Living where there are neighbors nearby can be trying at times. In many cases, it's necessary for people to compensate in some way for annoyances caused by proximity to others who have their own interests at heart.

[Baitball Blogger]

27. Just out of curiousity, are you working off known law, or is this just your opinion?

I'm not stuck because nuisance noise is civilly actionable. It's just a question of spending money on a lawyer and, of course, finding a court that you don't have to concern yourself with backroom phone calls.

The generator is too close to many of my bedroom windows. It's not just the noise I'm concerned about.

If it's your opinion, that's fine, but I'm really looking for precedent law. I've looked on the internet and what I found is that generators are considered a noise nuisance at night. They generally get turned off by the police unless there is a true emergency at play.

[MineralMan]

30. Everything I write here is my opinion, which you

are free to reject as you see fit.

My opinion is that the problem you're discussing is a minor one, really, and easily dealt with at almost no expense. But, you can hire an attorney if you wish, and see if you can get this generator shut down.

[Baitball Blogger]

40. I'm hoping that publicity will resolve the issue.

Since a search on the net shows that this is a growing problem.

[TheKentuckian]

47. All kinds of people that seem healthy and normal have issues that require power

You have no idea who might need breathing aids while sleeping or take medications that are very temperature sensitive that might seem healthy as a horse to someone without inside knowledge.

I don't know the specific details on the neighbors and doubt you do either with it sounding like your assertion of health and "normalcy" seemingly fueled by an eyeball test.

Maybe you should be reaching out to the neighbor and having adult conversations that might lead to better understanding for both parties that leads in turn to more harmony.
Of course to pull that off you would have to be in a somewhat more receptive place than "an Auschwitz experiment waiting to happen", really? You are going to compare the operation of a generator to Joseph Mengele? Seriously?
Don't see any drama queen in that?

[Baitball Blogger]

52. He won't listen.

Check our response number 31

[maddezmom]

59. I think you posted the wrong link

[Baitball Blogger]

63. I have. Thanks for pointing it out.

Good God! How am I gong to find it!

[Brickbat]

76. Auschwitz? Really?

[Baitball Blogger]

86. It's pretty close to the windows.

You do realize that in case of a power outage I would respond by opening up the house which means that cross breezes will enter the house. Anything wafting outside will come into the house.

You do realize that generators emit exhaust, right?

[Brickbat]

98. You do realize that making the comparison of a generator running outside your window

to Auschwitz is tasteless and makes you look like a tool, right?

[HappyMe]

102. Exactly.

A fucking generator in no way compares to Auschwitz. Good grief!

[Baitball Blogger]

164. Expect more hyperbole as I continue to lose sleep.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

170. Not that I expect an answer

But have you even tried ear plugs?

[Baitball Blogger]

237. Once, a long time ago. I found them annoying.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

286. Your neighbor probably finds it annoying

When his AC goes out in the middle of the night and the house gets hot, so there you go.

[MADem]

301. +1 nt

[oldhippie]

142. I need emergency power within an hour of an outage ......

.... or I start losing thousands of dollars worth of critters in salt water aquariums. Corals need constant temp, salinity, water flow, light, chemical balance and a few other things to stay alive. Without power the computer controlled environmental systems on the aquariums fail and critters start to die within an hour. Sorry about your sleep. Earplugs are pretty cheap.

[Shankapotomus]

228. Me thinks the person

who started this thread didn't think things out. There's also people with medical conditions who need constant access to power to consider.

[Baitball Blogger]

241. Me thinks you haven't read the original post.

I specifically mention that I understand if there are health issues involved. In fact I say so throughout the thread.

[uppityperson]

186. Air conditioning. Heaters. Comfort. Buy a set of $1.00 ear plugs

Generator noise = Auschwitz experiment?

[Submariner]

306. And ear plugs keep the cockroaches out too

which is why I wear them since having a roach crawl into my ear canal in bed when I lived down South. The doctor had to drown it in alcohol to kill it because it wouldn't let it's claws go from my eardrum.

No...I don't want to discuss how much that hurt, but the side affect is I don't hear emergency generators anymore with my no-roach plugs in my ears.

[Ruby the Liberal]

305. I cannot believe a jury let this stand.

Disgusting.

[uppityperson]

307. Beware of comparisons like this, as backlash may commeth, keystone writer

[notadmblnd]

179. I too have a transfer switch for my generator.

I bought it after we lost power for a week during an ice storm in March 2003. I remember it was 2003 because my husband caught peumonia and never quite got over it. He died that October in his sleep. AFAIC, the neighbors can put up with a little noise when the power goes out.

[Baitball Blogger]

242. We don't have ice storms in Florida.

I'm sorry about your loss. I have stated in this thread that I understand the need for them in true emergencies.

[notadmblnd]

255. extreme heat can be just as debilitating as extreme cold

I wouldn't begrudge anyone the use of a generator. In fact I'e even invited neighbors to plug into mine.

[Baitball Blogger]

263. Now that you mention it, there was nobody in the house during the

day so no one was affected by extreme heat. Also, we aren't have blithering hot Florida nights. An open window would still provide a pleasant temperature if not for the concern that you're also breathing in exhaust.

[notadmblnd]

272. I don't know what to tell you. I live behind an international airport

CEOss start flying in on their jets about 5:30 AM. Choppers landing and taking off day and night. They are not going to shut it down so I can sleep. I have to live with it. Windows stay closed at my house all year long. Maybe you should consider adding insulation to your home? The added benefits would be reduced outside noise, cooler in summer, warmer in winter, saving you money on utilities and giving you the quiet you need to rest.

it is fairly inexpensive if you borrow the maching from Home depot or Lowes and blow it in yourself.

[Baitball Blogger]

274. There's nothing that an extra $100,000 won't fix.

Cement Block wall and an extension on the house. That's my dream.

[flobee1]

4. People do have to be considerate

even during an outage. For this last round, I ran mine only during the day, and never constantly. It was only hooked up to the fridge to save the food-and it did, thankfully. One hour on and 2 off kept the food below 40 for the day that we were down. I don't know of any house in a 5 block area from me that has an AUTOMATIC generator, and I don't think that it is needed for power outages in this area. All I have is a tiny 1200 watt that will hold the fridge at 38 degrees so hundreds of dollars in food does not go bad, and my popsicles will stay frozen

[Baitball Blogger]

13. That's all I'm looking for. Some sensible reasoning that makes life bearable

for everyone.

This is a growing problem. Just look at generator noise on google and up comes articles of how neighbors turned to violence. Not that it would be my way, but you can understand if my relationship with my neighbor is destroyed irrevocably.

[RKP5637]

191. Some places I've lived have db levels for acceptable noise levels. Then one

place I lived the city said they couldn't afford the db meters. It sounds like (no pun intended) the chief problem is noise from the exhaust which seems it should be required to be toned down for a residential area. I have one neighbor in this area that has a tractor so loud it wakes the dead. I don't know if he has the muffler off it or what, but fortunately it only runs once in awhile.

[Baitball Blogger]

243. I wonder how much those db meter cost?

I swear that the generator sounds louder at some times more than others. And, of course, I can't trust the City's db meter.

[RKP5637]

247. I think temperature, humidity and wind direction affect the transfer of sound loudness. I just

did a quick search on eBay and they don't look that expensive to me. I think where I lived that was a line of BS the city was giving to me. They just didn't want to get involved.

Here's the link from my eBay search.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=db+meter&_sacat=0&_odkw=eb+meter&_osacat=0

[pnwmom]

69. An older person could have many reasons for needing an automatic generator,

including c-pap machines, oxygen machines, and difficulty in operating a non-automatic generator.

I'm amazed that anyone could know the generator status of all houses within a 5 block radius. I only know for sure that the house next door to me has one, and it goes on anytime we have an outage longer than 10 minutes.

[Baitball Blogger]

88. How close is it to your house, just out of curiousity?

[flobee1]

106. I had it sitting about 15 ft

outside of the kitchen window

[Baitball Blogger]

245. 15 feet from the house is the recommended distance.

The owner did a bait and switch. On the plans he had it next to his side door and I thought it was an air conditioner unit. After the City allowed him to max out on the property he then tried to get it changed to where it is today. He made it sound like he was doing me a favor, when in reality it was a bigger danger to him where he originally had it. Why didn't the City take this into account? Because they helped him break our Association regulations.

[pnwmom]

116. I think about 20-25 feet, but I haven't measured. nt

[flobee1]

104. No lights at night for 5 blocks in any direction during the last outage

had they had a generator, I'm sure a light would be on somewhere on the property.

[pnwmom]

120. I can't see that far, with all the vegetation and hilliness around here. Five blocks? Wow. n/t

[SickOfTheOnePct]

5. I wish I had the money for a whole house, automatic generator

Our neighbor has one, and I have no problem with the noise.

[Baitball Blogger]

8. There are variables which make my situation unbearable.

A) placement of the generator.

B) I have a Florida inspired home which was meant to take in the breeze. i.e. the entire structure is not cement block.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

14. If the noise is unbearable

Then I suggest investing in some high quality ear plugs. If the generator placement is illegal, then turn them in.

Doesn't change my view that I have no interest in my neighbor dictating to me when I can or can't turn on my generator (hypothetical, as I don't have a generator).

[Baitball Blogger]

42. So you don't have a problem if I start playing elevator noise at two in the morning?

Since the issue is your noise encroaching on other people's property?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

51. Personally, it wouldn't bother me

And if the elevator music served a purpose, I wouldn't care at all.

But comparing elevator music, which serves no purpose, and a generator, which serves a very definite puprose, is completely valid.

*sarcasm*

[Baitball Blogger]

56. If noise doesn't bother you at all--or so you say since it's not an immediate problem,

I can understand why you would respond in the manner you have.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

61. I don't let little things bother me

And noise is just that to me, a little thing.

You don't care for your neighbor, you've admitted that the law allows him to do this, yet you still want to go to court.

Have at it - enjoy.

[Baitball Blogger]

70. You're making a subjective decision on something you know absolutely nothing about.

When you live next to a house with an Automatic Generator, we'll talk again.

[pnwmom]

78. I live right next door to one and my only reaction to it is jealousy,

when I lose my power and they don't.

Are you sure that isn't a factor here?

Because, if you are the kind of person whose sleep is disturbed by unexpected noises (which can occur from many sources) there are two simple solutions: earplugs and white noise machines. I have used and can recommend both.

[Baitball Blogger]

90. I was born in the tropics. I can stand the heat.

It's the added factor of noise at night which bothers me. I'm an insomniac. Once I wake up, I can't get back to sleep.

I've tried everything.

[pnwmom]

110. Here's another tip, given to me by a doctor.

When something wakes you up and you find yourself ruminating, and your thoughts keep you awake, write them down. Also write down every worry you can think of (your loved ones could die, you could be permanently disabled, the economy could collapse -- whatever) Then rip up the paper and go back to sleep.

At that point, your subconscious will be unburdened and the generator itself will be white noise.

[Baitball Blogger]

246. Actually, it was very helpful last night when I wrote a sign that said,

You are an inconsiderate Asshole!

But I didn't have the balls to keep it hanging in the window.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

285. I'm shocked, I tell you, just shocked n/t

[pnwmom]

312. I can imagine that would be very helpful, based on my own experience

trying to write things down.

Sorry this has been such a long, frustrating process; but so many people need generators these days, due to apnea and other conditions, that I doubt you'll have much luck fighting this in court.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

81. As are you, on two points

One, you're making a subjective decision that your neighbor's generator is unnecessary.
Two, you're assuming that I don't live next door to an automatic generator, but I do.

Nice try, though.

[Baitball Blogger]

92. You haven't told me how close that generator is to your house.

Closer than 25 feet between property lines?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

97. Actually, I did tell you in another post

15 feet from the generator to my bedroom wall, no barriers.

[pnwmom]

71. Elevator music serves no purpose and isn't "white noise," like a generator. n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

93. Gotcha!

Generator noise isn't considered white noise. Look it up on the net.

[pnwmom]

119. I consider it white noise, and I live next door to one. Once it's on, it's a bland, continuous hum.

[Baitball Blogger]

248. It makes me feel like a trapped animal because it sounds so unnatural.

[byeya]

74. I have a whole house automatic generator and it makes less noise than

a lawnmower or leaf blower.
When the power goes off, the generator goes on and my family has water, refrigeration,light, and heat.

[Baitball Blogger]

96. lawnmowers and leaf blowers are incredibly loud.

Not sure that's a good litmus test.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

99. Guess that will be your next target

People should use scissors to cut their grass, and raking never hurt anyone.

[Baitball Blogger]

249. Not unless they try to do it at night.

Do try to keep up.

[uppityperson]

256. Some of us work night shift, like hospital nurses and try to sleep during day when those

blasted leaf blowers are being used. It is annoying.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

288. I've kept up

You're one of those nightmare neighbors that everyone hates...always playing the role of Gladys Kravitz, so tender of mind and body that the mere sound of an engine at night makes you feel like a trapped animal. Upset that the generator comes on when *GASP* no one is home, and the power is only out for an hour or two or three or four.

So, how is the neighbor to know how long the power will be out? If they decide to go away for the weekend, should they have to turn off the generator? What if the power is out for the many hours and they lose what's in their fridge and freezer because they weren't home to flip it on.

But so long as you don't have to bother with those annyoing earplugs...

[wordpix]

175. +1

[MADem]

303. I would like one of those too--a natural gas one. nt

[Tracer]

6. The power goes out in my town regularly.

And not just for a few hours, but for days.

The last time the power went out was last October -- for almost 7 days.

We broke down and bought a generator, and it was the best idea we've had in a long time.

Now we can save our food, have a light or two and the over-the-air TV.

During that last lengthy outage, my neighborhood was buzzing with the sound of all the generators -- but everyone turned them off at night.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. You hit the key issue.

What is the need for a generator to run over night? That alone could solve the problem.

[hobbit709]

39. I would need one for my CPAP and there are plenty of people with breathing problems

[Baitball Blogger]

45. Hi hobbit.

If you've read the thread, we've already discussed that issue. There is no health issue in this situation.

[PotatoChip]

162. You keep asserting that there is "no health issue"

Last edited Sat Jul 7, 2012, 02:21 PM - Edit history (1)

But how do you know that?

Sleep Apnea is a very common problem in the US, and can range from mild to severe. Moderate to severe cases really do require a CPAP machine (the same thing hobbit spoke of). People, even those w/severe sleep apnea, may appear totally healthy, and indeed they usually are... That is if they are using the machine every night.

The neighbor may very well be using one and you'd have no idea about his condition unless he were to tell you about it specifically. Based on what I've read about your relationship w/this neighbor, I highly doubt that he'd reveal that to you. And to your eyes he'd appear completely healthy----as long he's using his machine every night.

Here is some info about sleep apnea and how common it is:

OSA is one of the most common sleep disorders. Nearly 25 percent of men and 10 percent of women with a sleep disorder also suffer from some degree of apnea.

The estimated average life span of an untreated sleep apnea patient is 20 years less than the average life span of the rest of the population.

http://www.sharecare.com/question/how-common-obstructive-sleep-apnea

Edit: Just noticed I typed in "CRAP" machine as opposed to "CPAP" machine.

[Baitball Blogger]

251. Though it's something to think about, there is no one in this neighborhood who has

ever tried to hold back on information like that if they thought sympathy would push their cause.

Besides, I believe he has another home in the area and it doesn't have a generator that I know of.

[bluedigger]

9. My neighbor died last week when the power went down for a little over an hour.

She was on oxygen and was found the next morning in her hallway. The kids are up from Texas selling off her estate this weekend. A generator back-up probably would have saved her.

Get yourself some good hearing protection and keep it by your bedside if the noise is a serious problem for you.

[Baitball Blogger]

12. No one is sick next door.

If we're going to be practical, lets start with the solution that makes life more enjoyable for everyone.

But you do make a good point. What happens if someone decides to turn their home into a group home? Then you have to deal with the constant generator nuisance.

[bluedigger]

44. Mutual accommodation is always the first and best way to resolve differences.

You want to legislate the problem in your favor.

Talk to your neighbor about sound proofing the generator and offer to help. It's not hard to do. It could be as simple as moving it.

[Baitball Blogger]

50. He's got good ole boy connections.

He's not the accommodating type.

This thing began to get out of hand when his generator turned on at six in the morning just for its monthly warm up exercise. We asked nicely and he did nothing about it. In that instance the City asked him to change the time to later during the day.

And, oh by the way, the City individual who approved the generator mysteriously retired that week.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

53. So, based on your OP

You want to know if there a law that prohibits a municipality from passing laws that some people dont' like?

Good luck with that one.

[Baitball Blogger]

60. I took a law class and the issue of noise nuisance is a big concern

when it comes to the enjoyment of your property.

There may be a law that can supersede the city's thoughtless ordinance.

Noise, and in particular generator noise, has created serious problems in communities crossing over into public health issues.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

66. OH you took a law class

Well, that changes everything!

Cities normally set their own noise ordinances, but perhaps Florida has a state ordinance. But the notion that you mentioned in your OP, i.e., is there a law that stops municipalities from passing unpopular (in your opinion) laws isn't something I've ever heard of.

[Baitball Blogger]

100. Just looking for the law on the matter.

I'm sure if I had been politically connected, the generator would not have been allowed, nor the house for that matter.

[Ikonoklast]

279. What is the local ordinance?

Should be easy to find and cite.

As for being politically connected and using that to supersede municipal ordinances, you would then find yourself and the municipality open to suit by your neighbor.

[bluedigger]

62. Well, there's always the traditional method of conflict resolution.

Sue.

[Baitball Blogger]

101. I know. That's why I'm hoping this thread will reach someone who has been there before,

and can pass on case law to me through PM.

I'm building a file.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

109. Oooh, a file

A file AND a law class..I bet your neighbor is shaking in his air conditioned boots.

[dionysus]

152. stop it you're killing me...

[bluedigger]

123. First, you need to document your injury.

Record every instance, start time, duration, etc. along with db readings taken with a sound meter.

[uppityperson]

196. Outside temp, humidity, all the weather info also.

Beginning, end and probably every hour during useage too.

[Baitball Blogger]

252. db meter is definitely something I will invest in.

Thank you.

[uppityperson]

254. Weather will give possible reasons WHY they are using generators.

[Baitball Blogger]

275. We aren't having major heat issues at night.

During the day, which is not what this thread is focusing on, there is no one home.

[maddezmom]

276. you said it's happening a few times a year. did it go off last night?

[pnwmom]

127. Have you answered anyone asking why you don't just use earplugs?

Since you know you're an insomniac and random noises disturb you?

I have a friend who sleeps every night with earplugs and a sleep mask over her eyes. They help.

[Baitball Blogger]

253. Yes. Several times.

I tried them when I was very young and found them irritating. However, I realize I should try them again before I decide to take this court.

[pnwmom]

310. There are a bunch of different kinds and some are more comfortable than others.

Good luck!

[Baitball Blogger]

311. Thank you.

[HereSince1628]

15. Perhaps you'll feel better after catching up on your sleep.

I think that most cities have noise ordinances if you don't feel better after a nap you might call your munincipalities 'code enforcement' office.

[Baitball Blogger]

18. This will be an ongoing issue, so a nap will not matter.

I might as well start building the case now.

[GarroHorus]

16. My wife and I intend to install an automatic generator.

We want one that runs on natural gas.

It's been over 100 degrees for a week here. If the power went out, screw it. We'd run the thing 24X7.

[Baitball Blogger]

20. Hope you have a large sideyard between houses.

Unfortunately, in Florida, sideyards were the first to go.

[byeya]

103. Where we lived in the southern mountains we had to buy a propane tank for

the generator. Since we retired and moved to the city, we have natural gas and the generator works off of that.
It is programmed to run once a week for 10 minutes to do a diagnostic on itself. I'm sold on having a generator especially if you have a well and are not hooked up to a municipal water supply.

[madokie]

108. Heres a little tip I learned years ago

if you have a motor that is making too much noise for the neighbors go to the muffler shop and have them to bend you a piece of exhaust pipe that fits your muffler and then dig a hole in the ground near the generator and fill if with large fist size or so rocks, The hole needs not be any larger than a 5 gallon bucket, in fact you can put a 5 gallon bucket in it to hold the rocks and let the exhaust from the engine exhaust into that bucket of rocks and surprise of surprises the noise will not be there any longer or what is won't disturb anyone even if they have an open window near. I've been here and done that and it works. Maybe the OP can suggest something of this nature to his neighbor to quieten the exhaust down. If he wants to settle this without hard feelings that is. The price of the pipe and the bending of it by the muffler shop won't be that much either. It works and it works good. I have a system as I described for our generator even though ours is not automatic so I generally won't start it unless its colder than hell out and I need the power to run our Pellet stove to keep from freezing. My neighbor never knows when I start the generator as the noise from my apparatus doesn't penetrate his dwelling. He'll just come over and ask me if he can plug a cord in so he can keep his furnace and refrigerator running and we're both happy as he'll help pay for the fuel and I'm being a good neighbor.

[maddezmom]

112. great suggestion

[Baitball Blogger]

198. I'll look to see if I can find a good source

that supports this "weird science." I mean that in a nice way. If I have something that explains the physics of the situation it might be an easier sell.

Thank you!

[hobbit709]

19. Earplugs work wonders.

If I freaked over every noise in my neighborhood, I'd never get any sleep. What with the trains, planes, sirens, occasional shots, thumpa thumpa cars, and my dog's squeaky ball.

[pnwmom]

84. Exactly. Those of us who'd have a problem with generator noise, would have a problem

with many nighttime noises.

I do, and I've learned there are solutions. I use an air cleaner in my bedroom, and I deliberately didn't buy one that advertised itself as silent. It makes a great "white noise."

[Baitball Blogger]

105. You know the only kind of "white noise" I tolerate is natural

sounds of frogs, crickets, rain falling. But it has to be natural. I can register artificial sounds and they eventually wake me up once I memorize the tape.

[pnwmom]

114. My alarm clock can be set to make the sound all night. If it's on when you go to sleep,

it shouldn't wake you later on.

It's not a tape to memorize; it's just a continuous, bland noise.

[Baitball Blogger]

166. I might try something in the future, but I think that comment number 138 has been

the most helpful.

[Nye Bevan]

25. Maybe they don't want a freezer load of frozen food to be ruined? (nt)

[Baitball Blogger]

28. Freezers don't defrost in five hours if you're not constantly opening and closing the door.

Which, if you're asleep, you can expect the door to remain closed unless you sleep walk.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

34. Look, you've already admitted that this is just the latest issue with the neighbor

Bottom line is that unless they're breaking the law, then you need to learn to deal with it. It isn't, nor should it be, any of your business to decide whether or not they need to run a generator, unless the law allows you that latitude.

[Baitball Blogger]

107. This is a symptom to a larger disease. A pattern that continues and needs to be stopped.

I have to start somewhere. I have a valid complaint. It's a question of gathering enough money for lawyers to resolve it. Now, if you have case law that you can present to back up your opinion, I would welcome your input.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

139. I don't need case law to back up my opinion, because I'm not trying to sue anyone

And you obviously don't have any case law to back up your opinion either, otherwise you wouldn't be begging people to send some to you via PM.

[Baitball Blogger]

167. This is only the first day of the search.

If you want to see what a helpful reply looks like, see comment number 138.

[dionysus]

158. i think you're exhibit A of the symptom, actually. and you're quite ticked off and surprised that

pretty much no one here agrees with you.

[Baitball Blogger]

169. Not surprised at all. However, there are some people that understand the

problem better than others. See comment 138 for instance.

I've learned this about the internet, whenever you bring up an issue, everyone has an opinion but at first, very few really have the facts available to make it an informed opinion. That changes over time as more attention is brought to the subject. That's how it was in politics and how it will be with something like generator noise.

[tammywammy]

26. Invest in some ear plugs.

Have you ever discussed this issue with the neighbor?

[Baitball Blogger]

31. Oh, he knows how I feel.

The man lied when he presented the situation to the HOA ARB. The City allowed him to overbuild his house and then allowed him to break our HOA restrictions to put the generator where it is.

I would have a good case in court. It's just a matter of money and finding a lawyer who can circumvent the good ole boy network that controls the courts.

Too bad Obama can't find a way to even the playing field when it comes to justice, the way he has with healthcare.

[MineralMan]

41. I doubt very much that the President of The United States

has neighborhood generators on his mind...ever. Even if he did, it's a matter for much more local jurisdictions. It's not a federal issue in any way. How odd that you would bring the President and even Auschwitz into the discussion. I believe I will simply leave this thread now.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

57. I'm just about there with you

This is beyond ridiculous, IMO.

[Baitball Blogger]

113. Since the both of you have nothing but opinion to add to the discussion,

I thank you both for your comments but agree you have nothing further to add.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

135. And all you have is opinion as well

Your opinion that your neighbor's generator isn't necessary.

And as I haven't noticed that you are a moderator or one of the owners, I think I'll wait for them to tell me that I can't post on the topic anymore.

Or do you plan to sue me too?

[Baitball Blogger]

171. I have more than opinion. I have property rights.

I thought you decided to exit with Mineral Man. I just assumed that if you had nothing else positive to add to the discussion that you would move on to something else on DU. Must be a slow day.

I have garnered a positive response from a DUer, so I'm happy with the results of this thread, overall.

If you like, I'll stop responding to your post unless you have something constructive to add.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

180. To your first point, your property rights are not being violated, based on what you've already said

The law is against you, you don't like the law, so you want to find another law that will negate the law you dislike. You've found nothing, and in fact are begging for help to find something, anything to help you.

To your second point, I'll reply for as long as I choose, and you are free to reply or ignore. Makes no difference to me.

You're not going to sue me are you, with your file and your law class? Because that might go on my permanent record, then my life would be a nightmare. I might even lose sleep over it. .

[Baitball Blogger]

111. You are a literal man, Mineral Man.

I was referring to how the law is sometimes as inaccessible as health care was at one time. Wouldn't it be nice if those of us who have rights infringed upon had inexpensive access to the courts. I know, I'm dreaming.

Auschwitz because the other byproduct of generator is exhaust. But you knew that, right?

[maddezmom]

67. wth? why are you bringing Obama into this?

[HappyMe]

80. Auschwitz too!

Just wow.

[maddezmom]

91. yup

[Baitball Blogger]

118. Same response.

Look up carbon monoxide poisoning and generators.

[Baitball Blogger]

117. My gosh. Am I the only one that knows that generators give off exhaust?

Look up carbon monoxide poisoning and generators.

[hobbit709]

132. Only if you run them inside an enclosed space.

[Baitball Blogger]

172. No. They give off exhaust even when they're outside.

[uppityperson]

197. So do cars. Are you going after them next? Good god, a CAR!! Idling 2 door down! Auschwitz!!!!1111

[Baitball Blogger]

257. I'm glad you're having fun at my expense.

Your exaggeration of the data does not reflect well on you.

Cars which idle for more than four or five hours? I don't think so.

Generators give off exhaust and if I open windows on both sides of the house I will create an air flow which will bring in everything outside into the house. Not so funny when the first bedroom to that generator turns out to be the baby's room or a child's room.

[uppityperson]

260. Which bothers you worse? The noise or the exhaust? I thought this was about the noise? And did you

read my post here....http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=913120

Comparing it to Auschwitz was going too far and you really should go edit that out as it is offensive. We are not "having fun at your expense" but pointing out the absurdity in offensive comparisons like that.

[Baitball Blogger]

266. Why can't we multi-task on this thread?

If this is going to court I would list all the issues that would support my position that something needs to be done to correct the situation. If I'm going in, I'm going in full monty.

[uppityperson]

271. OK, multi-task. The Auschwitz comparison is offensive. Would you edit it out?

And, which bothers you most? The noise or the exhaust? Can you, will you, answer these questions?

[PotatoChip]

281. Thank you uppityperson. It *is* offensive.

I second that request.

[uppityperson]

283. I would hate for them to be locked out of their topic for a hidden post.

[hobbit709]

277. But not at dangerous levels

No more so than idling your car in the driveway as opposed to inside the garage. If you're going to complain about that then what about the exhaust from the power plant.

[maddezmom]

136. of course they do

do you have a detector that is going off or something? I think you've moved from your noise argument to a health argument and the added reference to Aushwitz is appalling, imo.

[Baitball Blogger]

173. You're not the one who has to sit and wait to find out if it becomes a

health hazard. Considering that someday there will be a crib next to one of those windows, I think it's something that needs to be discussed and reviewed now.

But, as soon as we can afford to, we will be adding carbon monoxide detectors to our alarm system.

[maddezmom]

182. I'd suggest if you are concerned you purchase a carbon monoxide alarm

I have one built in to my alarm system, but also have purchased the stand alones for all my bedrooms.

[Baitball Blogger]

258. Exactly. That and a db meter.

Two expenses which I should have had to worry about, but there you are.

[tammywammy]

185. Carbon monoxide detectors aren't expensive

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=495272

[Baitball Blogger]

259. Thank you.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

143. So now it's not the noise, it's the CO?

Sounds to me like you just want generators banned.

Good luck with that!

[Baitball Blogger]

177. Point to me where I said I wanted generators banned.

please do. The issue has been in determining what constitutes an emergency. I have made that determination in the main thread. Please read carefully instead of trying to pick a fight. This issue has been limited to night noise. So if you think that I'm trying to get generators banned I would say that you need to read more carefully.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

207. What you don't seem to understand

is that YOU don't get to determine what constitutes an emergency for other people. And so far, YOU don't get to use your definition of an emergency to infringe upon someone elses rights.

[Baitball Blogger]

115. Here is my response to Mineral Man

I was referring to how the law is sometimes as inaccessible as health care was at one time. Wouldn't it be nice if those of us who have rights infringed upon had inexpensive access to the courts, just as we now have to health care?

[maddezmom]

125. have you contacted your HOA? or an attorney?

you usually can get good legal advice for a nominal fee and would let you know what your recourse is in relation to you claim of infringement of rights.

[Baitball Blogger]

178. If I have another experience with a lawyer, I want to know the answers before I ask the questions.

Lawyers in this area have lied to me before. I simply don't trust them. That's why I'm gathering information any way possible.

[dionysus]

165. you just jumped the shark by trying to bring Obama into this.

[Baitball Blogger]

181. You're just taking the comment too literally.

It was wishful thinking. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get affordable legal assistance as easily as we now have health care.

It would be a different world if we did.

[maddezmom]

29. sorry you can't sleep through them

but I'm for them. I have been seriously looking at them because of frequent power outages here in my area.

[Baitball Blogger]

33. I'm only opposed to them at night when there is no reason for them to come on.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

43. And who made you the arbiter of what constitutes "reason for them to come on"? n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

82. Property laws.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

94. And you've said that your local property laws permit this

So you want to find another law that you can use to overturn the local property laws. Right?

I'm glad you're in Florida and not Virginia.

[Baitball Blogger]

121. It happens here all the time.

Developers exploit property laws. which is a reason that Florida homeowners start at a deficit since they have to fight to get back the rights they lost when the city colluded with the developer at the time the development was initially approved.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

131. If the local laws allow the noise, then what grounds do you think you have?

You say the law allows it, which means the law doesn't recognize it as an infringement on your property rights, yet you insist that you can sue on infringement of property rights.

[HappyMe]

46. So who are you to decide that there is

'no reason' for it to kick on?

Get some earplugs and non-habit forming sleeping pills.

[Baitball Blogger]

122. Property Laws and Noise Nuisance Issues.

[HappyMe]

38. More of the neighbors here

have purchased them after Irene came. Some people were without power for over a week. One of our friends has 2, one for the pump in the basement and one for the house. They really can't afford to fling out an entire fridge of spoiled food.

[maddezmom]

58. My folks got one a few years ago after a power outage in MI for 10+ days

in the winter. They've used it a couple of times and have been able to plug their next door neighbor into it. Have opened their home to others when their is an outage, etc. I guess the neighbors are willing to overlook the noise since and see the benefits. They have a well, so no power no water.

[Baitball Blogger]

126. Sounds like they live in a rural area where they have long periods without power.

Sensible use for a generator. How much distance between the homes?

[maddezmom]

146. no they live in a suburban neighborhood. Probably 40 feet between one neighbor and 100 feet of

another.

[Baitball Blogger]

188. We live about 35 feet apart from house to house.

Twelve feet to the property line. And, of course, there is no barrier between their generator and my back windows.

[maddezmom]

192. why don't you build the barrier or ask them to go in with you on the cost?

[Baitball Blogger]

203. The man makes nearly $200,000 annual taxpayer paid income

Thank you, Rick Scott for that information.

We just put two kids through college. I'm working on getting some additional income. It's Incredible how problems disappear when you have money to squirt out of your ass.

But, yes, it's an option. Though I wish I had the money to build a cement block fence and extend the house to eliminate all the sliding glass doors.

[maddezmom]

209. so you haven't discussed this with your neighbor

maybe you should and the situation can be resolved.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

211. Interesting

Why does how much he makes and how he makes it have anything to do with this issue?

Seriously, your comments make it sound more like you're jealous that he has a generator and you don't.

[Baitball Blogger]

124. that sounds like a proper reason to have a generator.

Not just to keep the clocks running.

[flvegan]

32. So noisy generators are the fault of republicans now?

At least we aren't blaming Obama for something so pointless for a change.

[Baitball Blogger]

35. I'm pointing out the inconsistency in their philosophy.

Property rights? I don't think so. It's really about the mighty bullying people who are powerless. (Nyuck. Love my pun.)

[flvegan]

64. I fail to see how this falls under a supposed violation of your property rights.

[Baitball Blogger]

75. You're in real estate and don't know about noise nuisance?

Do what you want on your property. Make sure it doesn't encroach on mine.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

89. But you've already said that the noise ordinance is not being broken n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

128. Haven't confirmed that.

However, since this city has a history of fraud and collusion, it doesn't hurt to see if there is a higher source that can override them.

[flvegan]

194. I am and I do.

I still fail to see the connection.

[Baitball Blogger]

206. Well, it might explain why we have so many residental problems in Florida.

[flvegan]

215. We do have a good amount of whining prats here, if that's what you mean.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

37. Agree

I can't imagine myself being so petty.

[Baitball Blogger]

65. Do you live next to a house with an automatic generator?

No? Then live and learn.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

73. Yes, I do

And my generous neighbors made some room in their freezer for food me last week so that mine wouldn't all spoil.

Then again, I'm not bitching at them everytime it comes on.

[Baitball Blogger]

77. How close is it to your house? Is there any barriers to cut down on the noise?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

83. No barriers, and about 15 feet from my bedroom wall and a window n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

130. And you don't have hearing problems?

Remarkable. I would say I envy you, but the truth is, I enjoy the sound of natural night noise and freaked out when the hearing in one ear began to fade. I couldn't hear the crickets from that ear, but, thankfully, it's returning.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

140. No, I have no hearing problems n/t

[liberal N proud]

48. I understand your point of view

And probably would be in support if our homes were not so powered.

Case in point, you pull you car in to the garage and close the door with the remote. You go in the house and go about your business which most of does involve electricity, from cooking, cleaning and entertainment.

Put the entertainment aside, you still need to cook and keep your perishible good refrigerated, cleaning can probably wait a day or two.

But what happens when the power goes out? Without power, food spoils, either oppressive heat or brutal cold can be life threatening.

Remember that car you put in the garage? Yea, not getting that out unless your garage door is one of the really lightweight steel hollow types, most modern doors are not. Yes you can release the door opener and lift manualy if you can lift it.

This happened this last week, my wife was home alone because I was travelling when the power went out. She could not get the car out to go to work as she could not lift the double wide solid wood door.

A generator would have been handy in this case.

[Baitball Blogger]

134. I think we've reduced the issue to night noise.

Having the freedom to sleep. Without it, all else becomes unbearable.

[liberal N proud]

163. I grew up next to railroad tracks

3 trains every night minimum, never kept anyone from sleeping. One time we had 80+ rail cars pile up in the back yard, slept through it.

Live next to a highway or in the approach path for a large airport, you get used to the sound and tune it out.

[Baitball Blogger]

208. I think there's a part of the brain that adjusts for the limited interruption.

I can hear the golfcourse's lawnmowers in the distance, but I know they're very temporary and the brain deals with it. Besides, it's not a constant hum.

[uppityperson]

210. Actually that is backwards. Brains adjust for constant noise vs intermittent.

[Upton]

49. I'm glad you're not my neighbor..

no offense, but you seem like the type who peeks out the curtains constantly keeping tabs on the folks next door..

[SickOfTheOnePct]

68. After about four posts, I kept seeing Gladys Kravitz in my mind's eye n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

72. Check out my website.

When you've become a victim of good ole boy frauds and conspiracies and can prove it, well, let's just say that if the Republicans get their way, you'll be living my nightmare.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

87. Oh wow, nightmare??!! It must be hard being you n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

137. I'm as normal as they come, more tolerant than most.

You are just meeting me at my stage where I've decided to stop being a victim.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

141. Oh yeah, you're very tolerant

That much is obvious.

[Baitball Blogger]

145. It's taken me over ten years to reach this point.

In this Repub county, if you don't stand up for yourself and push back, they mow you over.

BTW, why are you still here? I thought you were tuning out with Mineral Man?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

161. I'm bored

And you're funny.

[Baitball Blogger]

193. At least we've reached the point where you admit that you're here

just to harass.

[Upton]

129. Your "nightmare"..??

Conspiracies against you. President Obama should get involved. I mean, come on..

To be honest, after reading over this thread, I don't think the problem is your neighbors, I think the problem is you..

[Baitball Blogger]

144. There's a two million dollar settlement in a Tampa archive that points out

to a conspiracy that took place in my community. It is a very interesting story, actually, of how country clubbers wanted to fight their developer/country club owner who was attempting to develop based on a PUD, and how lawyers joined in the fight, hoping to make the area a test site to allow local government control over landuse changes. The developer sued and the case was settled for two million dollars. He went on to other lawsuits which they say garnered him another 3 million dollars.

My development was impacted and neighbors were part of that fight. They have been bullying us into submission since.

This is the nightmare that awaits you all if the Republicans take over. Yes. Democrats spend so much time trying to figure out Republican philosophies, and in the end it's very simple: Might makes right. Imagine a Republican community behind the push to give local government more power to change zoning laws without State oversight. Oh my. You never see it coming. Yet there's a two million dollar settlement and a 110 page legal complaint that says it is all true.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

147. Heaven forbid that a local community make decisions for themselves

What a nightmare!!

[Baitball Blogger]

189. Fraud and conspiracies normal in your area, are they?

[NCTraveler]

54. Many places have to have a pump on their property....

to push their sewage to the municipalities lines. The county won't provide service where on property pumps are needed. If the power goes out, and there is no generator, the house will have a major back-up. These generators must turn on automatically and cannot miss a beat.

[Brickbat]

79. Yep, if we don't have power, we don't have water, either. It's a drag.

[Baitball Blogger]

190. That's an emergency use of a generator.

No problem understanding that.

[Baitball Blogger]

148. Where is this located? And what is the distance between the houses?

[NCTraveler]

234. You do realize how easy it is to see if they are breaking the.....

local noise ordinance?

[pnwmom]

55. Earplugs are cheap, safe, and easy to use.

To me, other people's generators are white noise -- no more bothersome than someone's air conditioner. My only reaction to them when the power goes out is jealousy.

If sleep problems for you mean a generator wakes you up and you can't go back to sleep, so could a large truck driving by. Or a cat fight. Or any number of things.

If you're bothered, ear plugs are sold at the drug store. Or you could buy your own white noise machine (I have an alarm clock that offers a choice of background noises, including ocean waves.) Then you won't notice changes in the noise outside.

[Baitball Blogger]

149. Having those things in my ears every night will only aggravate my insomnia.

I actually fall asleep to true white noise.

Generator noise is not normal. It is a sustained mechanical nuisance. In fact, studies have shown how people test poorly with similar sustained noises than noise that turns on and off.

[uppityperson]

200. Which type have you tried? Any? The soft quishy foam ones? Have you ever tried any or just assuming?

[Baitball Blogger]

212. If I were to go into what it takes for me to fall asleep, we could begin a whole different thread.

The sad thing is that it changes. One night I love the moderate silence. The next night it startles me. I've been this way since I became a mother. The one thing that holds constant is that I find dead silence unnatural.

[uppityperson]

218. You haven't tried any, just assume they won't work. That'll look good in court.

"no, I didn't ever try them because I know I they won't work."

[Baitball Blogger]

230. Just for you, uppityperson, I will try them on before I go to court.

Thank you for the advice.

[uppityperson]

240. the best we've found, most comfortable, are the squishy foam ones with rounded ends

[Ian David]

85. Here...

[Baitball Blogger]

150. I fall asleep to white noise. That would never work for me.

[uppityperson]

201. You'd rather take it to court than TRY earplugs. Wow.

[Baitball Blogger]

213. I'm trying to tell you that earplugs won't work.

There's a part of me that needs to connect with what's going on around me, which is why I find the unnatural hum so disturbing.

[uppityperson]

216. You are unwilling to even try earplugs. Would rather go to court. Gotcha.

No noise=bad. "wrong" noise=bad. Calling 911 with frivolous things = you are a victim.

[Baitball Blogger]

231. You are very blessed not to understand the complications of insomina.

[uppityperson]

236. You are very blessed with the gift of assuming. nt

[maddezmom]

204. how often is this happening?

once a week? once a month? a few times a year?

[Baitball Blogger]

214. Something has been going on recently.

Not sure what it is. Right now I'll say a few times a year, but we're coming into the storm season. And, of course, we'll be dealing with heat waves.

[maddezmom]

238. A few times a year? Again, I suggest talking to your neighbor.

Offer suggestions for a resolution before you try to take this to court. Because by the looks of this thread, it's more about his political affiliation/donations, job, etc then it really is a health/noise issue.

[lumberjack_jeff]

95. The fault is with your electric utility.

In the 1930's a law was passed allowing public utility districts. I am lucky enough to live in the service area of one of these districts.

In addition to having fair power rates, out power is out only briefly. In fact, I live 10 miles from the nearest town, on a long, dead-end county road that serves about 30 homes. During this winter's ice storm, the lights went off three times due to trees over the power lines; noon, 3:00 and 6:00. Each time, power was restored within one hour. That is the kind of quality of service that is possible when the directors of the organization report to the public.

In contrast, my brother lives about an hour away in downtown Olympia. His lights were off for a solid week. He has Puget Sound Energy, a private corporation.

[Baitball Blogger]

151. This is a Republican county so I don't expect the situation to get better.

[JVS]

133. Get earplugs

[Baitball Blogger]

153. I'm an insominac that falls asleep to white noise.

Earplugs wouldn't work for me.

[Turbineguy]

138. Find out what the noise

nuisance regulations are in your area. Maybe there is a limit. Because of the proximity of the houses (?) the generator noise could set up a standing wave that is amplified by the houses. If their generator is next to your bedrooms, exhaust is a problem. Of course it's even better if you could work things out with the neighbor (but that seems to be a problem). There may be a simple solution in building a small enclosure around the machine that lets air in and exhaust out but muffles noise.

Years ago I had a problem when I was pressurewashing around my property (for several days) and it bothered the elderly neighbors. They threatened to sue me (that was the first indication of a problem). I surrounded the machine by some sound board, noise problem solved.

As far as the standing wave thing goes, we were looking at a house for sale but the neighbors had a pulse fired furnace and the drumming noise between the houses was awful. We went elsewhere.

[Baitball Blogger]

156. 138 remarks before someone responds in a reasonable manner.

Thank you Turbineguy. It's obvious that you understand the situation. I think a sound barrier around his generator is a wonderful idea! Thanks for bringing it up.

[maddezmom]

159. did you read #108?

ETA: 50+ of those 138 comments were yours.

[uppityperson]

202. And he won't try earplugs because he already knows "they won't work".

This thread is very fun

[Baitball Blogger]

217. Yes, thank you! I went to hunt it down after reading your comment.

It is my thread. It would be rude not to respond to people who are trying to help.

[alphafemale]

154. When is an emergency not an emergency?

When you waste the cops times because the neighbors generator woke you up.

Learn to cope.

You know,

Like people do.

[Baitball Blogger]

157. I refuse to be abused. I've been a victim for too long.

Now it's time to fight back.

[Posteritatis]

168. I feel abused and victimized by your definitions of abuse and victimhood. (nt)

[Baitball Blogger]

219. You have an easy out. Put me on ignore and you shall be FREE!

[uppityperson]

205. Abusing the 911 system with frivolous calls makes you the victim?

[noamnety]

155. We've run our generator at night before.

It's not automatic, but sometimes we'll turn it on. Given a choice between a neighbor losing some sleep for a night or spending days and thousands of dollars dealing with a flooded basement because the sump pump was out, the neighbor's gonna lose a night's sleep. Sorry.

Once I had the power go out and the basement flooded while I was away on vacation for a week. Holy cow, we got back after the mildew started gaining traction in the carpeting, when we opened the basement door it smelled like a dead body was down there. We opened the door, slammed it closed, and ran outside gagging. If you have a sump pump, an automatic generator's the way to go - ESPECIALLY if nobody's in the house. Heck, if I'm home I can at least bail (done that, too.)

There are also a hell of a lot of people using CPAP machines and while it's not life threatening in an immediate way, neither is your concern. They have a prescription for it, let them have it. And I guarantee that if they have a partner, having a CPAP-deprived loud snorer a foot from their head is more of a noise problem than a generator across the street.

If you combine the number of people with sump pumps, the number of people with CPAPs and the number of people with oxygen tanks, the odds are if you live in a suburban or urban area you're going to have people who need to run a generator within hearing distance of your home.

[Baitball Blogger]

160. Sounds to me your situation qualifies as an emergency.

Don't think that issues qualifies here because homes in Florida don't have basements.

[noamnety]

239. and what of the CPAP machines?

The people who have a prescription for them, should they be allowed to use them during a power outage? Or should they have to sacrifice their sleep so you can get yours?

[wordpix]

174. I had an overflowing sump pump during Hurr. Irene & friend brought generator

to help me out. My neighbor went bananas and cursed me out for using it. I guess she wanted me to bail the water and carry it upstairs to dump out, up and down the stairs all night. I did that for about an hour before the generator arrived - it's simply not possible to do that for 12 hrs straight.

[Baitball Blogger]

220. I wouldn't have any trouble defending your right to have a generator in that situation.

But we don't have basements in Florida.

[pepperbear]

176. you're using DU to complain about other people getting power to their homes during an outage...

because you can't sleep with their generator running.

I got nothing.

[Baitball Blogger]

221. My position is that generators should be used for emergencies, and a power outage AT NIGHT

does not qualify as an emergency unless there are ulterior situations such as the need to keep life support systems running.

[randome]

232. Some people have sleep apnea and can only sleep with a CPAP machine.

Some people have servers they need to maintain. I can probably think of a dozen other reasons for wanting power to stay on 24/7.

But I don't think it's up to you to decide if those reasons are valid or not.

[alphafemale]

183. AHHHH!!! Stray cats are having sex outside! I'm calling the cops. AHHH!

My rights are violated!!!!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

195. Good one!

[Baitball Blogger]

224. Actually, it was a very weak.

[Baitball Blogger]

223. It would be inhumane to allow cats to fight for two to five hours.

[alphafemale]

313. I said SEX. Not FIGHT. But, I think we may be making progress toward your problem.

Have you ever had sex for longer than twenty minutes?

[wandy]

184. If those generators belong to you're power company. If they provid you're house with power........

You should count you're blessings.
EOD

[Baitball Blogger]

225. Not the situation.

[wandy]

244. Sorry it isn't. Noise ordnances can be trickey..........

I've been both the complainer and the offender.
City ordinance may say 50 db prior to 10:00 PM, but what it relay comes down to is "if it bothers you" and what you're neighbor is willing to do about it.
For things like barking dogs and I suspect generators it may be totally at you're neighbors discretion.
If you're neighbor 'doesn't give a dam' and you live in a stand your ground state; direct confrontation may not be the best idea.

[obxhead]

187. The problem is not the generator.

The problem is the noise. Laws regarding these generators shouldn't say when you can and can not run one, but how much noise it is allowed to make at any particular time of day.

After our last hurricane we modded out a few generators for people using car mufflers. What was once an extremely noisy generator became a power source you could stand right next to and have a normal conversation. The mods only ran $50 to $75 and only took about an hour to do.

Another thing to think about is location. Placing your generator in the inside corner at the back of the house with the exhaust pointed into it turns the house into a giant amplifier. Common sense is not so common it seems.

[RKP5637]

199. Yep, that's what I was thinking about in my post #191. If I had a

generator I would just mod it to tone down the exhaust just out of concern for my neighbors.

[Baitball Blogger]

227. Mod it, add a sound barrier, and build a cistern and point it away from the houses.

All of this sounds so logical I wonder why the City didn't think of it?

[RKP5637]

235. It's amazing, isn't it. In the big picture it's a simple solution. I can see how

this would get to you. It should be a city ordinance to require this in residential areas, just good common sense IMO.

[Baitball Blogger]

295. You have no idea how much love and appreciation I'm sending to you.

[upi402]

222. Muffler, design and noise baffles

Generators w/ ATS are not the issue. There are bigger fish to fry. Talk to the offending neighbors. Make a gesture to chip in $ if it's a REPUKE NEIGHBOR.

[Baitball Blogger]

229. He donates to Republican candidates, so I'm guessing so.

[Baitball Blogger]

226. 108, 138 and 187

Thank you for the information. The exhaust is pointed at my house.

[uppityperson]

233. I understand having sleep issues and having things further affect the ability to sleep.

However, you don't get to decide why someone runs their generator during a power outage. You've been asked many times about wearing earplugs, which you say "won't work" without, seemingly, ever trying them.

Check with your local laws. I do not think there is a federal law mandating not using generators. Or cars. Or lawnmowers. Or other noise making things.

It is your choice to go to court or to try other things first. Perhaps talking with neighbors, asking why their generators come on during the night might enlighten YOU. You do this NOT to change their minds but to perhaps gain understanding why.

Try ear plugs. They might work, they might not. The cost under a dollar up to 20 or so. What would it hurt to try them? To give them an actual chance rather than getting them, putting them in, muttering "I know these won't work".

Sounds like you have larger sleep issues than the occasional generator noise. Have you talked with a health care provider about it (sincerely meant, not snark here) as they may have ideas for you (and not just sleeping pills)?

Lots of possibilities. I know not being able to sleep sucks. Figure out what you CAN control and work with that rather than frustrating yourself further on what you can't. Try ear plugs, learning about neighbors, health care provider. Much cheaper and less frustrating than going to court.

[maddezmom]

250. and all this for a few times a year

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=913065

[Baitball Blogger]

262. The fact that this is just one symptom of a larger disease in this community is something you

seemed to have missed.

[maddezmom]

270. I haven't missed anything.

But good luck with your law suit.

[Baitball Blogger]

294. If I should take that route, the generator will only be Exhbit H.

[maddezmom]

298. looks like you've got a big list against your neighbor. However, if you were truly worried

about the fumes and noise levels, you've been given options in this thread to address those with your neighbor. Not sure why you don't try them first?

[Baitball Blogger]

261. So I'll try your advice and try the earplugs to see if old age has improved my tolerance

for them, and if I don't find they work that eliminates more than half of your responses.

Are you a lawyer? If not, what do you know about what I can or cannot do about the noise ordinances?

Just want to know to put everything you say in perspective. I appreciate opinions, but once you've stated them, there is really no reason to blast it everywhere. It only makes this thread longer than it has to be.

I think it's best that you steer away from making suggestions about health care issues, since it looks like you're going into an area that might fringe on defamation. Insomnia is a problem that affects many people, especially post menopausal women.

[uppityperson]

268. I'm not sure how a health care provider suggesting talking to a hcp "fringes on defamation". Clarify

Yes, insomnia affects many women, like we peri and post menopausal women. It is common but not talked about a lot, leading many of us to think it is just us. But it isn't. It is common. Talking to a health care provider can give some other options. I've been there, both on the patient and the nurse side. 10 yrs into hot flashes and it sucks. I did hormone replacement therapy for 2 months once as was having them 36 times in 24 hrs and not getting much sleep. I've seen many women come into the clinic asking for help as it is a common issue.

Not sure how this "fringe on defamation" any more than my saying "if you've got in infected toe, it might behoove you to see a health care provider". It is a common issue, insomnia, and I did not mean to attach any sort of subjectiveness to what I wrote there.

And not sure how this "blast(s) it everywhere" since I hadn't seen anyone reply with all I did.

[Baitball Blogger]

273. Thank you for the additional information. It helped understand

where you're coming from.

For the record, I find that I suffer less in the long run if I don't get hooked on medical alternatives.

Ironically, when it comes to functioning during the day, a good nights sleep works for me! Hence, the reason why I'm going to fight this tooth and nail. Can you imagine having to take sleeping pills and hormone therapies instead of getting the neighbor's generator noise to operate within reasonable hours?

I think it's our society that is making us sick.

[uppityperson]

278. It wasn't meant to suggest anything, why I wrote sincerely meant, not snark.

And why I wrote not just sleeping pills.

Talking helps, finding out that you aren't alone in the menopausal insomnia thing. People don't talk about things like this and that 1/2 kindergartner boys still wet at night and so get very frustrated trying to be "normal" according to what they see and hear and not realizing they are "normal".

[Baitball Blogger]

292. Oddly, I was doing fine until last night.

And you know, for someone who couldn't understand the need to speak about the exhaust issues of a generator, it just seems odd that you now are taking this thread to an area that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

I thank you for the information, but I was coping fine as long as I could sleep through the night without anything unexpected happening. This is how things escalate in a community. This is how change happens. Not by sedating yourself, but by facing the problems that stress our bodies.

On the other hand, I'm sure that there is a forum for the subject matter you bring up and that it will bring great relief to many women. I have found that conventional therapies only make it worse for me because all I need is the kind of sound advice our mothers gave us. Good diet, exercise and a good nights rest.

[uppityperson]

296. Well, that's the way these forums go. People chime in with all sorts of help and then subthreads

start based on what was written. You seemed to take offense at my health care provider suggestion so I thought I'd clarify a bit more and share a bit more. And now you take offense at that.

Please edit out the Auschwitz comparison like many of us have asked as it IS offensive.

Goodbye and hope you get some rest.

Edited to add, oh, I just remembered who you are. heh. Still here, are you?

[ret5hd]

280. hey, a man in search of a lawsuit is not a man to trifle with!!!

consider yourself warned!

[Baitball Blogger]

293. Where does he fare these days?

[taterguy]

264. Lack of access to cold beer is automatically an emergency

Have you considered getting some ear plugs?

[Baitball Blogger]

267. Hi taterguy!

They will drive me insane because I love to fall asleep to the sound of natural sounds in the back yard. But, I will try them the next opportunity that comes up.

[Raine1967]

265. I would file this under: 1st World problems

Sorry that you are inconvenienced, but really, this is truly something I would consider a first world issue.

Peace.

Raine

[Baitball Blogger]

269. So very true. Not much problem with generators where you live?

[MineralMan]

282. Just ducking back in for one more question:

You live in Florida. What on earth do you do during nighttime thunderstorms? Even I can't sleep through those. And I bet they happen more often than power outages and generators coming on.

As they say here in the wintry north: Uff da!

[Baitball Blogger]

289. I have yet to hear a thunderclap that is prolonged for a two hour interval.

I imagine it would scare the hell out of me. If it ever happens, I'll write you.

[MineralMan]

299. Really? In Florida?

Not a single thunderclap, but a long period of lightning and thunder. Even in Minnesota, just last night, we had over an hour of continuous thunder from a storm that hung around overhead and kept the sky lit and booming the whole time. I've been to Florida many times, and have heard long periods of thunder from thunderstorms there. It's a feature of Florida weather. I'm sure that has happened where you live many times.

What do you do? Sue Mother Nature? I can't imagine that your neighbor's generator produces any sound equivalent to that.

[maddezmom]

302. yeah odd

http://www.insuringflorida.org/blog/index.php/2012/06/25/lightning-safety-awareness-week-when-thunder-roars-go-indoors/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Tampa_Bay_area

When I lived in Weston we'd have thunder and lightening storms all the time in the Summer.

[Baitball Blogger]

304. non sequitor.

Really? This is the best you can do?

[MineralMan]

309. Actually, it is not.

I have no doubt that thunderstorms are far more frequent than the times that generator is on. If you have difficulty sleeping, I'm sure they keep you awake far more often, too. Even closing your house up completely won't stop the sound of thunder.

I guess my issue here is that you live in a world where noise is a common thing, and you've chosen to live in a residential neighborhood where homes are near one another. Noise is bound to be created by your neighbors on a frequent basis. It certainly is in my residential neighborhood, ranging from the guy up the street who has a drag-racing car he sometimes works on to my nearby neighbor who has a quiverfull of children and their friends who play noisily outdoors in decent weather.

Noise comes with living around other people, from traffic noise to the noise of lawn mowing and even backyard entertaining and children playing. The barking dog is another issue.

If you truly cannot sleep due to all of this noise, perhaps moving to a place that is more isolated from others, where there are no thunderstorms, no roads, or other noisy things might be the only solution.

In the grand scheme of things, an occasional running of a generator seems a minor thing. Perhaps your attitude toward your neighbor in other things is coloring your annoyance from this noise. I doubt seriously whether you're going to be able to force the neighbor not to use his apparently legally installed generator. Coping or moving seem to be your only options, really. You mentioned the cost of a carbon monoxide detector as the reason you don't have one. How much do you suppose hiring an attorney to press this case will cost?

Sorry, but...

[IDemo]

284. Speaking for myself and millions of Americans

for the majority of all types and brands of insulin, the maximum temperatures recommended are as follows:

Opened room temperature insulin should not exceed 86 F (30 C) with the exception of Lantus, which should not exceed 77 F (25 C).
Most manufacturers of insulin recommend discarding insulin if it exceeds 98.6 F (37 C).

Other non insulin diabetic injectable medications:

Glucagon and Byetta should not exceed 77 F (25 C).
Symlin should not exceed 86 F (30 C).

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/diabetes-blog/my00717

[Baitball Blogger]

287. What does that have to do with generator noise?

[IDemo]

290. It has to do with keeping the refrigerator running

If your sole concern with generators used for emergency power backup is your sleep quality, my medical well-being trumps your dozing. Period.

[GoneOffShore]

291. You'd best not move to Northern Liberties in Philadelphia.

On a quiet night in the residential neighborhood I inhabit any or all of the following, plus a few more:
Two or three times a night (more on the weekends) motorcycles with straight pipes going from Center City to North Philly or Fishtown.
Every 20 minutes a bus stopping to pick up or discharge passengers and an automated announcement of the route number and destination.
Three drunken girls walking below our bedroom window arguing around 2AM.
The trumpet playing roller skater.
The loud party on the roof deck THREE BLOCKS AWAY that goes until 3AM.
The bagpiper who decides to do a medley of Scottish favorites around 11P lasting until 1A and is impossible to pinpoint.
The sound of PGW or the water department digging up the street two over because there's a gas leak or a water main break.
Hip hop, rock and roll or techno or a drum circle from the park up the street until midnight.
Plus ambulances, police sirens, fire engines.

Was in a beach house last weekend with the windows wide open - the sound of the waves and the bugs kept me up all night and then when I got to sleep at 4A the birds started at 4:45A - If I'd had a shotgun, I'd have had robin pie for lunch.

But at least I don't live in Florida, have no aversion to earplugs and shut my triple glazed windows and turn on the air conditioner.

Ah, but you did make that choice to move there didn't you? In much the same way I made a choice to live in the big, bad city.

I long for the sound of an emergency generator - it would drown out all the other stuff.

[quaker bill]

297. You have to be a "reasonably affected" person (such as a city resident)

and then file an administrative challenge to the ordinance within 19 days of posting. Once the 19 days pass, the "point of entry" is closed and the ordinance is law.

[TeamPooka]

300. IMHO when the power goes out thats when you need your backup gen

makes sense and since there are NO rec's for this thread but plenty of comments it looks like the DU community agrees on this.
Sorry the noise bothers you but...the power is out right.

[GoneOffShore]

308. The discussion has now moved to Meta -

Get it while it's hot.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240120991

edited to add link.

[maddezmom]

314. and it's been self-deleted as this one might will be

so just incase, here is the original:

Baitball Blogger (2,751 posts)


When is an emergency not an emergency? Re: Generator noise. [View all]
Last edited Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:15 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I cannot believe in an area that calls itself Republican that one of the freedoms you cannot count on is freedom from noisy generators.

Now, I could understand if power grids were being shut down due to hurricanes and flooding. Those kind of things generally constitute an emergency. Even if someone is hooked up to life support systems, I can understand it. But what do you think of an ordinance which is so badly written that it allows generators to turn on any time the power goes off? Any time. Even when those inconvenient two to five hour blackouts occur, which is happening more frequently.

Think about what happens each time there's a power outage when someone's AUTOMATIC GENERATOR flicks on. One, two, three a.m. in the morning you wake up from the sound and it becomes impossible to go back to sleep. If you live in a particularly incompetent Republican area where shortcuts are used all too often, it feels like harassment. Worse, why do you have to tolerate the noise when nobody is even in the house? Because, remember, this is an AUTOMATIC generator.

So, DUers, here's the appeal. There has to be some law that forbids a municipality from filing stupid ordinances which are guaranteed to interfere with the enjoyment of our pursuit of happiness, health and sleep.

Does anyone know the best sources, because I need to start building a list.0

[Baitball Blogger]

315. Thanks everyone who gave me good advice. I really appreciate those

who understood the problem and provided creative solutions.