May I ask a question?

[Sophiegirl]

A simple one.

How many Muslims are members or lurkers on this board?

The event in Portland just leave me sick at heart.

Are there Muslims here that are afraid to identify as such. Because if you are here....I detest the hate against you and wish there was something, anything, I could do to stop this assault on you.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. That's a good question, my dear Sophiegirl...

I don't know the answer.

And I agree with your thoughts, wholeheartedly. I was horrified at the events in Portland.

The climate of hate that tRump has brought into the open is just overwhelming.

[Sophiegirl]

5. It just completely floors me.

I grew up in West Texas......solid red these days.....but never saw this kind of hate. It really is heartbreaking.

Many of the people spewing this type of vitriol are my age and I can't, for the life of me, figure out where that hate was born. I wasn't raised that way.

The only thing I can figure is that combative politics and the lust for power and the riches it brings has driven our country into a great divide.

[Mrs. Overall]

2. Beautifully worded post.

[Sophiegirl]

7. It's just indescribable..

..that people feel so much hate and think it's okay to attack others.

I ask myself, "Why?" but I come up with no good answer. There is no good answer.

[Amaryllis]

3. I live in Portland, close to where the attack happened. I have been shaken by it. I posted

this earlier and hardly got any interest in it:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016186012
2 Men Killed On Portland Train After Trying To Stop Anti-Muslim Rant, Police Say

When there was so little response on DU, I was feeling like people didn't care. I know that isn't true, but I didn't understand why there would not be more interest, because it has really shaken up Portland.

I am so glad to see your post because it show caring and that others have been affected by what happened.

[Sophiegirl]

9. Have they found those girls?

I'm sure they are frightened to death to come forward.

[Ms. Toad]

4. I can't answer directly, becuase I am not Muslim

What I can say is that I have had several productive conversations behind the scenes here with Muslims - who are no longer active participants in DU, in part because of how they (their religion) are treated.

DU is not necessarily a Muslim-friendly place. DU is not friendly to religion, in general. It is even less friendly to Muslims. Do a search for hijab - you'll come up with patronizing, condescending threads that proclaim that no one would ever wear a hijab by choice. That is the most obvious slam, but in general Islam is viewed as vile because of the perceived lesser roles to which women are relegated.

I wouldn't self-identify here - unless I was looking for a heated pile-on.

[Sophiegirl]

10. I hear you.

I am not religious, but I would never, ever, attack anyone who is. It is shameful that people do.

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. "Islam is viewed as vile..."

"Islam is viewed as vile because of the perceived lesser roles to which women are relegated."

Perceived lesser roles?

I won't speak for anyone else, but the reason I view Islam as vile is because it forces many tens of millions of its adherents to basically remain stuck in the 12th century.

I have nothing against MUSLIMS.

Just as I have nothing against Christians.

It's their religion and the blind obedience to it I find absurd.

Having said that, I would have been right next to those two guys defending that Muslim. Being an asshole is NOT acceptable, regardless of who it is aimed at.

[Ms. Toad]

12. There are feminist Muslims who would disagree with you.

It is that atitude that is part of what makes it hard for some liberal Muslims to feel welcome here.

[A HERETIC I AM]

13. As there are liberal Christians

You've been a member here almost as long as I have and you KNOW for a fact that DU can be an unwelcoming place regardless of how one identifies, religiously or otherwise.

As I said, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with people who expect special dispensation because of their deeply held faith positions, and that includes the murderous scumbag on the Portland train.

Simply being offended is not a defense (and I know you didn't bring this up, I just think it's relevant). As Stephen Fry put it;

It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

[Ms. Toad]

14. There is a difference between expecting special dispensation

and being expected tolerate the bigotry that is inherent in the insistence (for example) that no individual Muslim decides of her own free will, to cover - as has been repeatedly asserted on DU - or that wearing a hijab is inconsistent with being a liberal or feminist.

And DU is often particularly unwelcoming to people of faith, especially Muslims.

[AngryAmish]

6. DU is kinda a hateful place place for any sort of minority, unfortunately.

[Sophiegirl]

8. That should not stand here!!

It makes me angry. DU has been a shelter for me. The Democratic Party should be a shelter for anyone who feels oppressed.

No fear...open arms. Maybe that is where we fail.