Anyone have thoughts on the Evergreen State College situation?

[oberliner]

Here are some articles from the college newspaper:

Protest Prompts Changes at Evergreen
http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/27/protest-prompts-changes-at-evergreen-students-say-the-fight-against-racism-on-campus-continues/

Complete List of Student Demands
http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/27/complete-list-of-student-demands/

George Bridges Statement in Response to Student Demands
http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/27/george-bridges-statement-in-response-to-student-demands-delivered-in-the-longhouse-on-friday-may-26/

Here's a bit from WaPo:

‘Professor told he’s not safe on campus after college protests’ at Evergreen State College (Washington)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/05/26/professor-told-hes-not-safe-on-campus-after-college-protests-at-evergreen-state-university-washington/?utm_term=.aa75ca11ff4c

Here's the prof's twitter:
https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein

If anyone has been following this and has thoughts or insights, I'd be very interested to hear them.

[Loki Liesmith]

1. It appears to be a pile of stupid.

A show put on by students who would have fit in well with a Maoist struggle session.

[oberliner]

3. Yeah, that is my initial take as well

But I am just now trying to read up more to get a fuller understanding of the situation.

[pablo_marmol]

45. Agree 100%. This is how 45 is empowered, and (perhaps) gets another term.

I've researched this thoroughly. Students are behaving like psychotic babies, while even DU members are lying about Weinstein.

[samnsara]

2. why in gawds name was Evergreen represented on FOX news? on TUCKER? Thats enough there...

...to make them protest. This is Evergreen.. not WSU or UW....

[oberliner]

4. Well, the story does fit into the Fox News narrative about "liberal PC culture"

And, also, it's a good distraction from the more important Russia-Trump news.

But, that aside, I think the professor is being treated unfairly, based on what I know so far. And I think some of the students are being ridiculous (also based on what I know so far).

I am open to other insights.

[Loki Liesmith]

5. Because Fox News is hyping the recent Campus Maoism issue

They may be overplaying it but the students *are* acting just like Maoists shaming "counter-revolutionary" colleagues.

[exboyfil]

13. The President rolled over

It is a repeat of the Missouri and Yale fiascos. I am sure parents are taking note when deciding where to send the tuition checks.

If I was the President, at a minimum, I would demand an apology from the crowd who harassed and even threatened the professor. Also the matter of holding him and others and barricading the entrances - that is a matter for law enforcement (and expulsions as far as I am concerned).

[NobodyHere]

14. That's Tucker MO

He brings the extremist left onto his show and presents them as mainstream democrats.

[xor]

15. I think we (those who are liberally minded) need to call out students/group who behave like this

A) They might be more willing to listen to people who at least share some of their beliefs
B) Prevents the right from framing it in a way that benefits them.
C) Diffuse some of the divisions and maybe actually bring about some changes instead of adding fuel to the fire.

[pablo_marmol]

50. That's what's so sick! Weinstein is a liberal.

Despite the other excruciatingly dishonest thread on this event.

[womanofthehills]

21. Republicans who think Fox is too liberal, will only watch Tucker and the weather

according to the Republicans on my Facebook page.

[Alice11111]

53. Foxes MO too. Show the crazy ones. For debates, get weak debaters fot the Dems. The NRA is singing

the same song. Be afraid of violent leftists, give to the NRA, and buy guns, since they can't scare people w Obama & Hillary now. Ironically, many of us leftists don't even have guns.

[pablo_marmol]

49. Easy. By default. MSNBC and the rest of MSM *runs* from stories like this.

They're too busy harvesting ratings by sticking with the dumpster fire. Mustn't step up and call out our own!

[NCTraveler]

6. Interesting reading. I was not familiar with this.

Some of the demands that are being met are pretty big decisions for a university to be making so quick. Outside of the firings, which I don't know enough to comment on, the list of demands looks solid. Some aren't going to happen but that is a great negotiation tactic.

I'm not sure what to make of the Professors Twitter.

[oberliner]

9. Thanks for sharing your insights

I do think most of the demands seem reasonable - except firing people.

[kcr]

35. I know what to make of his twitter

I don't know much about the story, but he's an asshole. Anyone who uses the term SJW isn't the progressive they think they are.

ETA I see down thread that he's the one that went around whining to the right-wing media about this, making this their pet story. I see my assessment of him was correct. I hope he's fired.

[Mike Nelson]

7. I have not been following...

...the story. Good to have a thread here instead of turning on FOX "News" for some insight.

[oberliner]

8. Thanks

It's annoying that Fox News and other RW sites are hyping this to the heavens, because that makes it difficult to look at the situation in a reasonable way. That's why I tried to focus on what the student newspaper itself is saying, along with one of the professors who is in the middle of things.

[cwydro]

10. I'd not heard of this story.

Pretty interesting.

Seems free speech on campus isn't valued so much anymore.

[exboyfil]

12. It would nice if the identity of the woman

shouting f___ y___ over and over to the college professor was made known so that everyone could express their appreciation of her thoughtful discourse - especially future employers.

[cwydro]

33. I agree.

Methinks she's in for a rude awakening when she hits the real world.

[exboyfil]

11. I think it is garbage and the administration should have brought the hammer down

From the student newpaper

http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/category/news/

"Following a series of unsuccessful conversations with different, divided portions of the Evergreen administration over the past several weeks and years, they gathered, personally escorted and held President George Bridges, all of the Deans, the Vice President of Student Affairs Wendy Endress, a Board of Trustees representative, and the full teacher union bargaining team all in President George Bridges office for about five hours. The administration stayed in the room until demands to address the problems of systemic racism and oppression faced by minority students were agreed upon."

This is ridiculous, and I personally think the administration members should have tried to leave. The behavior is not mitigated by the later statement:

"No force was used to detain members involved in the meeting, and everyone held in the President’s office were provided with food and water, with students available to attend to any emerging needs, including medical care. The building entrances were barricaded when it seemed as if police would be on the way soon."

The author has admitted to something very close to unlawful imprisonment. If I had been one of the individuals held, I would file a complaint. The act of barricading seems to lead to that conclusion.

9A.40.040
Unlawful imprisonment.

(1) A person is guilty of unlawful imprisonment if he or she knowingly restrains another person.
(2) Unlawful imprisonment is a class C felony.

[caraher]

16. There's been a lot of false reporting on this story

The chief talking point that is utterly false is that the "Day of Absence" Weinstein objected to involved whites not being welcome on campus. There was an off-campus event that day for up to 200 white-identified participants (on a campus of over 4000 students). There was some initial confusion among some faculty, staff and students regarding this point, but it was largely resolved well in advance of the event for anyone who looked into it. I do fault him for not correcting himself and his interviewers on this point; at the same time, his grievances go beyond that one event, too, so it's possible he considers it an unimportant detail.

Because he chose to cooperate with FOX and the right wing media, Weinstein's personal situation has been the focus of the national discussion, but it's only one small piece of what has happened there. A good summary was in The Olympian.

And all too predictably, this was the result of the story circulating in RW circles (resulting in a 2-day shutdown of the college)

http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/threat-closes-evergreen-state-college-amid-high-race-tensions/528732951

“Yes, I am on my way to Evergreen [College] now with a .44 Magnum. I am going to execute as many people on that campus as I can get a hold of,” the man said. “You have that, what’s going on here, you communist scumbag?”

[oberliner]

17. That's why I provided links to primary source materials

Articles written by students at the school, as well as tweets from the professor (plus one WaPo article).

I think they paint a pretty objective picture of what happened.

[romanic]

18. Great to see another thread on this.

To add to the discussion on the RW media "hyping" this up; this brazen act of protesting (more like a witch hunt) should've been shut down as soon as the students went and threatened Weinstein. There was a complete lack of respect there, especially towards someone who is progressive themselves.

Of course FOX and other right-leaning sites would use this event to paint the left in a broad brush as psychos; no sites on the left (Salon, Vox, MIC, etc) are reporting on this event. The liberal sites seem to be complicit about the actions of these students and complicit in letting the RW media having a field day with the protests.

[oberliner]

19. What is your take on the situation?

I would be interested in hearing your insights.

[romanic]

20. Pretty similar to what I thought of Mizzou a couple years back.

I'm just horrified that these supposedly progressive students are acting this way. I don't know if it's the result of intersectional politics or how US schools are run these days, but I'm just shaking my head at the lack of respect these students had for the professor and the administration of their campus.

[Dr. Strange]

22. It's not just the students.

Some faculty want Weinstein investigated.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zwPLnekTcjlmwO_0IyS7qF33sa40ufi2zAMEP-MU3IE/edit

Demonstrate accountability by pursuing a disciplinary investigation against Bret Weinstein according to guidelines in the Social Contract and Faculty Handbook. Weinstein has endangered faculty, staff, and students, making them targets of white supremacist backlash by promulgating misinformation in public emails, on national television, in news outlets, and on social media.

[Lord_at_War]

34. I think this is where I land.

Protests are fine, asking for changes is fine- but the students went way over the line.

The Prof in question seems to be somewhere between liberal and progressive, and didn't deserve what happened-. Looking at the overall history of Evergreen, the admin might be a bit more to the right of liberals and progressives- but they seem to be capitulating to the demands of the students- and illegal confinement of at least 10 people is always a crime.

I wonder what would have happened to any admin staff who tried to leave during the 5 hours they were held prisoner?

More red meat for the right...

[pablo_marmol]

46. + 1,000 NT

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. It looks to me like there's a lot of aggressive action and ungenerous listening across the board.

[grossproffit]

24. I'm sickened by the treatment of this professor.

[ProudLib72]

25. Bridges is over a barrel

If he fires Weinstein, then it will appear to the RW like he caved to the students. If he doesn't do something about Weinstein, then students are going to become even more violent.

I'd send Weinstein on sabbatical and get together with the Equity and Multicultural people ASAP. Here is the thing; the Day of Absence was completely optional. Weinstein could have just said he wasn't going to participate. Or he could have said that he would hold class off campus (which he is doing already, now). Pretty easy solutions. He chose to fabricate a protest out of it. I'm not siding with the students on this, either. They have behaved just as badly. In the end, sending Weinstein away would, I think, allow everyone to cool down.

Armed police on campus is the other issue. Campus shootings is a huge deal at all colleges and universities. In fact, I would say that this is an even stickier situation than the Weinstein issue. Again, it is going to take dialogue between the president, faculty, and student groups to come to some deal. I can completely understand why Bridges would not disarm campus police. I would not either. However, proper vetting practices and cultural sensitivity training could go a long way in allaying student concerns. But none of these discussions can take place until Weinstein is out of the picture.

[Jake Stern]

32. How about the send the asshole students away

This shit is getting out of hand and needs to be dealt with. Do people go to college to attend class anymore or just to find shit to be offended by?

[Lee-Lee]

36. After reading his responses I don't see where he did anything wrong

There was a campus event. He expressed his opinion about the event and what he saw as a troubling way of doing the protest by encouraging certain classes of students to not appear on campus that day. Even if he misunderstood the intent of the event nothing in his statement appears to be racist in any way.

And the protests don't seem to even have started until weeks after the event and his statements.

If you send him away you have set the precedent that a professor can be removed just because a mob demands it. Talk about something that will have a deep a chilling effect on the freedom to have an honest and free discussion of ideas in what is supposed to be an institution of higher learning...

[QC]

26. I think the students have legitimate concerns, given how bold

haters have become now that one of their own is in the White House, but...

they are attacking someone who is generally an ally because he disagrees with them on strategy. That's not a good way to build coalitions, and it's giving their enemies some pretty powerful ammunition.

[kwassa]

27. Weinstein sounds like an asshole.

His personal agenda is more important than a wider, more collective agenda.

[oberliner]

31. What makes him sound that way?

Was there a specific comment?

[Dr. Strange]

43. Wouldn't be the first time he's been called that.

http://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Professor-Who-Roiled/240267

[pablo_marmol]

47. "Sounds" like an asshole?!?!

Do some homework.......it was the students who were behaving like total assholes. Weinstein's "personal agenda" was refusing to buckle to false charges of racism by a brain-dead shrieking mob.

[MichMan]

28. They need to make examples of a few by expelling them

Last edited Mon Jun 5, 2017, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Of course students are allowed to air grievances, but some of them went way too far and need to understand there are consequences to behavior.

[pablo_marmol]

48. The right is correctly pointing out that we're eating ourselves.

And they're 100% correct. I'm feeling very pessimistic about the '18 elections.

[petronius]

29. Looks like the campus is closed again Monday, due to threats, after similar threats

Thursday and Friday. (And if I was gonna bet, I'd put my money on these threats coming from RW trolls trying to add to the havoc; whoever it is, I hope they're caught.)

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/article154363749.html

More broadly, it's difficult to get a real sense of what's going on: it seems that some of the issues go back throughout the school year, and ~90% of the news reports come from RW sources. It does look pretty clear to me that some students and faculty have acted rather poorly in the last few days, and it likewise seems that Prof. Weinstein misunderstood or misrepresented the 'Day of Absence' request. But so many of the other topics (the students rousted by police, whether the police officer(s) was/were overly forceful during protests, the hiring diversity question) are murky to those of us outside.

Although it would take far murkier murk to prevent the internet from having a passionately-held and bloodily-argued opinion. Wharrgarbl! To the ramparts!

[customerserviceguy]

30. I used to live not too far from there

and a lot of the people in the timber community I resided in thought of the Evergreen State College as a sort of playpen for people who refused to grow up.

My former wife and I (she went to Evergreen) were down in California at a winery in the Napa Valley in 1999, and our tour host (a lovely British lady) said her son was in WA at a "hippie college". Yes, she was talking about Evergreen.

[Yupster]

37. My first thought was "where are the trustees?"

Typically trustees of a small college like this one would be local business people. I would have expected them to have already stepped in and fired the President and brought security in.

Seeing the students screaming at cornered professors did look more like the Chinese Cultural Revolution than anything else I could think of.

Also, I hire people from time to time, and these students don't know how much harm they are doing their future by behaving this way on film.

I would expect registration at this school to be way down next year which may even challenge the school's survival.

[Initech]

38. What's the incident that prompted the protests? I feel like there's some information missing here.

[Yupster]

39. Was it the professor's e-mail protesting the event

being made public?

[jmg257]

40. Sounds like bullshit reasons were discovered to be offended, and goofy demands are now being made.

Taken over facilities? Keeping people barricaded?
Disarm the campus police of lethal and no-lethal equipment?

meh.

[Yupster]

41. I read through the list of demands and my first reaction was

now I know why my professor and instructor friends complain about how big the administration is on campuses.

It seems like the answer to each demand was we'll add another full time admistrator to be in charge of that.

[romanic]

42. And now these protestors are carrying bats around campus.

I saw it on Twitter. These people are clearly mentally ill. :/

[alp227]

44. Did any of these "students" take communication classes?

Being self righteous is one thing. Being able to convince others to listen to you is another.

The Evergreen State situation shows how the left has an image problem - it's too easy for the message to be overshadowed by tone/expression. Conservatives, on the other hand, know how to combine passion and persuasion more effectively to the "fence sitters". Just listen to your local "news/talk" radio station. You'll know what I mean.

Think about it - if you're undecided/on the fence about an issue, would you be persuaded by any of those self styled student activists, as opposed to the "alt right" types who are so full of shit yet managing to be more civil/calm about it?

[pablo_marmol]

52. The students are/were punks.

They disrupted the swearing-in of the new (female) campus police chief with nasty pejoratives. The following video covers hearing testimony relating to the conflict. What I described in sentence 1 appears at 1:16:05 in the video. Elsewhere, the spineless college president tap dances around, and passes the buck.