A Constitutional Puzzle: Can the President Be Indicted?

[L. Coyote]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/us/politics/a-constitutional-puzzle-can-the-president-be-indicted.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0
ADAM LIPTAK MAY 29, 2017

WASHINGTON — The Constitution does not answer every question. It includes detailed instructions, for instance, about how Congress may remove a president who has committed serious offenses. But it does not say whether the president may be criminally prosecuted in the meantime.

The Supreme Court has never answered that question, either. It heard arguments on the issue in 1974 in a case in which it ordered President Richard M. Nixon to turn over tape recordings, but it did not resolve it.

Reports that President Trump asked James B. Comey, then the F.B.I. director, to shut down an investigation into his former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, prompted accusations that the president may have obstructed justice. Robert S. Mueller III, the former F.B.I. director who has been appointed special counsel to look into ties between the Trump campaign and Russia, will presumably investigate the matter.

But would the Constitution allow Mr. Mueller to indict Mr. Trump if he finds evidence of criminal conduct?

The prevailing view among most legal experts is ............

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[Wounded Bear]

1. Good question...

they allowed a civil suit against Bill Clinton to go forward while in office.

Not sure if the precedent applies, but it doesn't cantravene the concept.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. But the civil liability of a president extends only to his private acts.

Presidents are immune from civil liability for acts done in their official capacity.

[Break time]

3. From what I have read

A sitting president may be able to be indicted but cannot be tried for a crime until he has been impeached and removed from office

[L. Coyote]

4. Perfect summary. Indictment for a crime can be a basis for impeachment.

In effect, the president would be tried in the Senate if impeached in the House, and if removed from office, could be tried in criminal courts.

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[tritsofme]

13. Anything that so moves the majority of the House at any given moment is a "basis" for impeachment.

Impeachment is a wholly political act, no outside event or party can compel the House to action.

The longstanding position of the Justice Department is that a sitting president is not amenable to indictment. He would need to leave office, while also not receiving a Nixon style pardon, before any prosecution.

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Apparently, the actual impeachment comes out of the House Judiciary Comm.

and then goes to the Senate.
I can't right now remember if it goes to the entire Senate or a committee...I think it is the entire.

I am not heartened by the large number of Repubs versus much smaller number of Dems on the House Judiciary committee.

[L. Coyote]

5. Imagine how the White House is reeling these days, like the Titanic Trump is, a sinking ship.

The hits have come hard and fast since firing Comey:

Trump's New Impeachable Offenses: Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy, Abuse of Power

And now the Jared revelations are like a second wave of a mega-tsunami drowning out every propaganda move they try to make:

[oberliner]

6. All those links are to MSNBC

If you were to link to videos from Fox that would show that Trump is doing great.

[L. Coyote]

7. They have a very effective propaganda machine or they would be dust on the road.

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[oberliner]

8. They sure do

If you ever talk to someone in the real world who is a "Fox News only" viewer, you will quickly see that they live in an entirely different reality than we do.

I had such an experience yesterday. The main issues on their mind were: 1. Hillary Clinton stating that Nixon got impeached, and not mentioning her husband, in a commencement speech. 2. Radical Islamic Terrorism vis-a-vis Manchester 3. Rude college students walking out on Mike Pence.

The Russia stuff is not even on their radar, except insomuch as how it demonstrates the "hatred the left has for Trump" that they are trying every which way to bring him down with fake news and whatnot.

[onenote]

9. As the Times article makes clear, most scholars agree a sitting president can't be prosecuted

And as for whether a president can be indicted while in office, but not prosecuted until after he's out of office, the experts agree that there is no clear answer.

How Mensch (and you) come to some other conclusion is curious.

See also:https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9100466

[rock]

10. The question is

Are we all equal under the law?

[L. Coyote]

11. Not when those who are sworn to uphold the law perjure themselves.

Sessions flat out lied to get into office and be able to control the DoJ for Trump. Were it not for Sen. Franken, he wouldn't even be recused now.

[rock]

12. I figured as much

The answer is, "No."

[L. Coyote]

14. Trump is indicted - here's how it happened

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[Generic Brad]

15. So if he murdered someone on live tv he could not be arrested?

The constitution does not cover that scenario, but if he did he would be arrested.