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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBill Maher is an asshole.
The conversation on a previous post largely defending Bill Maher is depressing. I can't believe so many are willing to give him a pass - again.
He loves to provoke. He knows exactly what he is doing and it is wrong. Comedy should not give a pass to people to use hate language. All those who have voiced the opinion that is was a joke, "if blacks use the word everyone else can", have their heads in the sand. I am angry and stunned by the support of Bill Maher here on DU. Not the Democratic party I grew up in.
Your language and choice to use words that have a racist history - specifically as it applies to white Americans, will reflect your morals and values.
My question now to those defending Maher is this; why would you want to use the word or defend those who use it? You all can't be so dense.
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LBM20
(1,580 posts)We are big enough to look at the entire picture and be fair. In the 1970's All in the Family was an Emmy Winning satirical comedy. In one episode, Sammy Davis Jr. appears. Of course the issue of race and the interplay between him and bigoted Archie Bunker ensues. In the course of their conversation, Sammy, who is playing himself, uses the N-word to say that Archie was good to not have used it and instead used the word "colored". Should the N-word not have shown up at all in that script? One could argue that. Or one could also argue that there are places in dramatic art (and other art forms) where all manner of rough language and the social issues involved around them are brought out for the purpose of confronting those issues and taking them head on.
Maher is a satirical comedian, and he was following his general style of satirical comedy. Please take context into consideration. And yes, it is also fair to discuss in the course of this issue how racially charged words, including that word, are used in the very communities victimized by those words. And while context there should also be considered, in most cases those uses of such words are wrong too. I do think Maher should not have said that word as his show was not a dramatization, and he should apologize for it as a joke gone over the top. But the intent was not based in racism. It was based in satirical comedy. And that is obvious. Maher is not a racist and never has been.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)LBM20
(1,580 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)It was not a slip and context or not, the word is hurtful to many with good reason. If one can't be "funny" without reverting to historical racist terms then your really not a "comedian" but rather an instigator and I think we have plenty of those.
SCantiGOP
(14,719 posts)without calling them an asshole then you are an instigator and I think we have plenty of those.
Why on earth shouldn't we be able to call someone an asshole while we're criticizing them? Does our criticism grant them some special asshole amnesty? Bullshit!
Maher is correctly called an asshole and Maher is entirely subject to criticism. Nothing about one precludes the other.
Brainstormy
(2,542 posts)thank you.
Rustyeye77
(2,736 posts)
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Orrex
(67,111 posts)Maher has a years-long history of explicit racism, misogyny, sexism, transphobia and endorsement of child rape.
This current "slip" isn't a slip at all; it's consistent with Maher's statements over many years. In the context of his history, his comment reveals him all the more as an asshole.
njhoneybadger
(3,911 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)It's that simple for me. I judge you by your deeds not your words.
Beartracks
(14,591 posts)
applegrove
(132,211 posts)in the way most shows do not.
BootinUp
(51,323 posts)Want him to continue to push the envelope . More times than not, it helps our cause. JMO of course.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)BootinUp
(51,323 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)The bigger picture to me is the need on this site to defend and therefore promote the use os offensive racist language.
I am pretty sure if it was a right wing comedian you would be calling said comedian racist.
So again, why would you ever want to use the word?
Bucky
(55,334 posts)Because I think he should not have use that word. And I'm glad he apologized. And I think he should be chastised for it.
But I don't think he should lose his job.
Maher inexcusably used racist language and he apologized for it. It doesn't mean he is a racist.
I don't think this should mark the end of his career.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)LBM20
(1,580 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)
BootinUp
(51,323 posts)power in a democracy to accomplish things you want to accomplish.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Please explain.
BootinUp
(51,323 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)BootinUp
(51,323 posts)Me in your black and white world is amusing.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)BootinUp
(51,323 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)but still looking for the answer to my question in response to your comment... "More times than not, it helps our cause."
What cause is Mahers racist comments helping ?????
BootinUp
(51,323 posts)Keep trying, lol
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)let's just make this really really simple for you ... still looking for the answer to my question in response to your comment... "More times than not, it helps our cause."
WHAT CAUSE DOES IT HELP.
If you can't anwer just say so and stop diverting.
BootinUp
(51,323 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Happy to leave it here - you got nothing !
christx30
(6,241 posts)Would you rather a conservative host his show? Real Talk with Tim Allen? If a conservative host used that word, do you think his peers on the other side would throw him under the bus? Hell no.
Maher has apologized. He acknowledges he was wrong. We're going to need him and others like him if we're going to have any chance of picking up seats in congress in 2018.
mdbl
(8,650 posts)his intent would have been to hurt - no doubt. Besides, most so-called right wing comedians aren't funny. Lies and stupidity aren't funny. Bill Mahr already expressed his regret. A real asshole wouldn't have. Can you give me an example of a right-wing comedian that expressed regret?
Bucky
(55,334 posts)It seems categorical to me.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Wonder if those defending him and his use of the word will now apologize for defending him. Not holding my breath.
BeyondGeography
(41,101 posts)Amazing how complicated that is for so many here.
This is his apology:
Mr. Maher said Saturday in a statement: “Friday nights are always my worst night of sleep because I’m up reflecting on the things I should or shouldn’t have said on my live show. Last night was a particularly long night as I regret the word I used in the banter of a live moment. The word was offensive and I regret saying it and am very sorry.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/arts/television/bill-maher-n-word.html?_r=0
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)BeyondGeography
(41,101 posts)What do you want in return, hours of clips of Bill Maher saying things that you or any other Democrat passionately agrees with? He will say cringeworthy and absurd things, but if you think that means he is hostile to people because of their race, gender, religion or orientation, we disagree.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Maher is a little too willing to go to the offensive well for my tastes. He's a bit to smug and self-assured.
Kablooie
(19,107 posts)Whether it's deserved or not.
It was Clearly a mistake to use the phrase and the apology won't completely clear the air with many of his followers.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)The fact he used a painful part of black folks history to make that bad joke is shitty and racist, flat out.
People like to make light of the idea of the slaves who worked in the house, not even attempting to understand the psychological abuse that took place in the "Big House".
The shit is not funny or acceptable.
orangecrush
(30,260 posts)Seems to be a dangerous job these days.
The Dixie Chicks, though not comedians, got the shaft and did nothing at all to deserve it.
Ratf*cking is just what repugs have been doing since Nixon. It's their style.
I agree that making it easier for them by being stupid isn't very smart.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Sorta like car accidents, difficult not to look.
Johnny2X2X
(24,207 posts)What he said was wrong. Very wrong.
But, he apologized now. When the Nebraska GOP Congressman said, "You need to come work in the fields with us." It triggered a terribly racist joke that Bill regrets saying. It was disgusting, but seriously, Bill is not the enemy and saying what he did doesn't alone make him a racist. It makes him a careless and insensitive asshole.
Bill is one of the good guys and has spent many years fighting for causes that benefit minorities, such as criminal justice reform, and law enforcement reform. If he had spent the last 30 years railing against mythical "Welfare queens" while claiming White Men are the real victims of racism, his use of the word would be way more damning.
He apologized, he should also do something else, perhaps have an all black panel next week he apologizes to as well.
Let's not eat our own here. Guy made a mistake, but he's got a long history of fighting on the right side and giving a strong voice to issues that matter to minorities.
gulliver
(13,985 posts)Like a golfer trying to hit a ball between two trees to save a stroke. He hits one of the trees and it bounces into the gallery. No problem. Life is a contact sport.
Rustyeye77
(2,736 posts)doesn't matter we're being screwed by pukes that actually ARE racist....let verbally kill one of our own who isn't.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Let him go over to the Repubs, who will eat his non PC shit up, misogynistic, racist up. He can really unwind w four 20 something Melanie types waiting backstage..He& DT have a lot in common...how the like their women, vulgarity, cruelty to the hsndicapped, rascists, Islomaphobes. Plus, they both think if the jusy say they aren't being PC, they will get away w it.
The Repubs are that stupid, Bill, we aren't.
Nitram
(27,749 posts)More often, he hits the nail right on the head and says what no one else will dare say right out loud. When you do that, you occasionally make mistakes.
mucifer
(25,667 posts)he was a guest on his show a long long time ago. He made fun of him for being old and being hard of hearing. I won't forget that.
There was a conservative Black woman on the panel. She called him out on it and defended Studs.
We were warned however. His show at the time was titled "Politically Incorrect"
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Never liked him as a person. That said I do watch his show occasionally.
gulliver
(13,985 posts)What's your qualification to act as judge?
Bengus81
(10,165 posts)He said a very stupid thing,I haven't heard him use the N word in his show before. He fucked up big time,he apologized. So...when does poop pants Nugent apologize to Obama AND all Dems?? He said he was going to rush in and cut all their heads off years ago. It was bad enough to trigger a secret service investigation.
Did he just screw up and open his mouth before engaging the brain? Nope,he was at it again stating that if Obama got elected for a second time within a year he'd be dead or in jail. Nugent and Tea bagger idiots made a career out of slaming a black President. Never so much as an apology from any of them.
Initech
(108,783 posts)Will he ever apologize for it? No. Republicans apologize for nothing.
reggaehead
(269 posts)He apologized. Let it go or u r the asshole
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)In his case, too many things, too many times. (I posted more specifically below.)
billh58
(6,655 posts)is duly noted, and congratulations on your appointment as a moral judge.
onecent
(6,096 posts)
GetRidOfThem
(869 posts)...a long, long time ago I had already decided he is too smug for my taste. This was way before the current controversy. This was years ago. Though I agree with his politics in general, his style bothers me...
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)She could best use herself giving someone a blow job. The audience booed him, and he waved them off.
He's often very funny. I used to record and watch him until I heard him say that. I was too sickened by him to watch him after that, though I had forgiven him several times before for things that made me cringe.
Why is it that people make excuses for him, no matter what he does? So, he's a comedian. That's even worse. He gets people laughing about things that are not funny...normalizing cruelty.
He is smart and thinks quickly. He ONLY apologized because he's afraid for his job, having been fired on another TV gig before. Good on Ben Affleck for taking him on, real time.
Bucky
(55,334 posts)I was disappointed when Neil deGrasse Tyson didn't challenge him on his anti-vaccination quackery
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Bucky
(55,334 posts)It's nice to see a more consistent liberal than Maher get his say. I at least give him props for bringing in guests who don't just mimic his points of view. Not that there's a lot of people who quite line up with his zigzag politics.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)His brain is warped with racism, misogyny, & even cruelty. Not being PC is one thing, being an asshole to the disadvantaged an actively promoting discrimination is another.
Adding on...not being PC is one of Drump's excuses too.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Orrex
(67,111 posts)He's been an asshole for many years.
Scalded Nun
(1,691 posts)He has always been an asshole.
The fact that I agree with him an many ideological issues doesn't change that fact.
Orrex
(67,111 posts)But DU gives him carte blanche for some bizarre reason because "he's a comedian, not a journalist," and he occasionally says something that pisses off the people DU wants to piss off.
demmiblue
(39,720 posts)Last night on Twitter, Bill Maher defended Rush Limbaugh and attacked liberals for not accepting Limbaugh’s apology after he spent three days relentlessly attacking law student Sandra Fluke.
Notably, Limbaugh only apologized for “two words,” after attacking Fluke dozens of times. Among those liberals not satisifed with Limbaugh’s apology was Fluke herself, who said it didn’t “change anything.” Dozens of Limbaugh’s advertisers agreed and have announced they are pulling their ads after Limbaugh’s apology.
Here is Maher’s tweet:
Hate to defend #RushLimbaugh but he apologized, liberals looking bad not accepting. Also hate intimidation by sponsor pullout
— @billmaher
https://thinkprogress.org/bill-maher-defends-rush-limbaugh-88af97b9abb4
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)
J0D
(24 posts)I like the diversity among Bill's guests, but defending Rush Limbaugh? Yikes!
Yes, Bill Maher says cringeworthy things at times.
I look at my boyfriend, we say "ouch". Have a tiny discussion about it and it's over.
The things that are really important and satisfying while watching Bill Maher
is when he discusses issues about police brutality and climate change to
republicans and is relentless when debating them.
People should at least try and understand.. Bill Maher's stance and the
fact that he is not completely left wing can be the bridge that connects the
right wingers with us. The fact that he is not 'politically correct' and is
uncooth at times may make him tolerable for right wingers to effectively
listen to issues regarding climate change, voter rights, police brutality.. etc.
Sad but true.
demmiblue
(39,720 posts)No wonder he had Milo on his show.
J0D
(24 posts)They were discussing Brigitte and Manuel Macron's relationship:
For those who are not aware..
Brigitte Auzière taught literature at the Collège Lucie-Berger in Strasbourg in the 1980s. By the 1990s, she taught French and Latin at Lycée la Providence, a Jesuit high school in Amiens. It was at that high school that she and Emmanuel Macron first met. He attended her literature classes and she was in charge of the theater class he attended. Their romance was not typical as she was his senior by 24 years and 8 months, and Macron has described it as "a love often clandestine, often hidden, misunderstood by many before imposing itself".
According to the reporter on NPR early morning, "French men are in love with the idea of the wise, older woman".. I mean, in context. They had just mentioned that they met while he was in high school and had an affair soon after.
I'm not saying it is right. But he was not the only one with that view apparently.
mopinko
(73,726 posts)14 is not an adult, and CAN NOT give consent for jack.
if macron's relationship was consummated while he was still her student- way different than after.
J0D
(24 posts)that Macron had an affair with her soon after they met.
I don't think it is illegal in France though.
Trust me, if we were to accept mature women having affairs with teenage boys in this country, we would have to accept old men
pursuing teenage girls as well, which makes me sick.
I just think that Bill Maher was introducing the thought that affairs between older people with minors are perceived differently based on the sexes. I don't think he was 'promoting child rape'.
floWteiuQ
(82 posts)RepubliCONs can say anything stupid, but damn the liberal or moderate who does the same. It's bull$hit.
clu
(494 posts)should uncle tom's cabin be taught in high school? who has their head in the sand
http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/125764-couldshould-a-7th-grader-read-uncle-toms-cabin/
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)think about the people we (collectively since this is a dem forum) are arguing with. IMO - after being a member of another internet forum for 10+ years - this sums up political discussions with conservatives.... yes I am generalizing to an extent.
-run of the mill blue collar right-winger: votes on hot-button social issues while the get the shaft through right wing financial policy. honestly thinks blacks are inferior.
-money is god elitist: may not be as dyed-in-the-wool racist as the blue collar guy, but definitely wants to keep a bigger piece of pie for himself. racism is second fiddle to their perceptions about "might is right". even the percentage of these people who *are* racist want to maintain a white majority in the US. for a certain percentage of our population, manifest destiny never ended. they may concede that blacks can be equal but want to maintain their control.
here is a hint - when you debate any of these people, you will rarely ever get someone to concede a point directly. the best you can hope to do is influence the position of people around you. "banning" certain thoughts or words makes you an easy target for right-wingers and it is sweet music to middle America who found a cause they can rally around.
keep your powder dry and save the outrage for something else.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)with his flip flops, the is much ado about nothing. Thinking about this today, I would prefer the word be eradicated from our culture along with all other disparaging words used to identify races and cultures. In america it AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN! That n-word and all others are making a big comeback in these times and since there are still house negroes and field negroes, TODAY, in the lexicon of my political identification of certain people of my race, ben carson, omarosa, clarence thomas and troubling members of the AA race like cornell west. et al. come to mind and the terms to me are still appropriate to describe members of the AA race who identify with the oppressor in any given circumstance, historically or otherwise. I do it, my friends refer to those mentioned as such and we don't use negroes as the term. I just don't want to be alerted on.
Now in the streets of many a diverse community today, nigga is all I hear. Rap in the car next to me is a continuous litany of that word and other my mainly mysogynistic BS passing as a cultural norm. I grew up with Basie, Nat King Cole, my mother loved him. Billy Holiday was a dream voice to me a a child. I could wax rhapsodaisical but you get my point. And the argument that the nigga and nigger descriptions of AA are different while the meaning and intent that originated the word was because of racist hate falls on deaf ears here. It is a word created out of HATE and any derivative of that word does NOT get rid of the intent of the origin of that word.
All that being said, the elephant in the room is that both words, nigger and nigga, are in wide use today. Hatefully used in the communities that use the former definition of an AA, self hate in one case and trying to be hip, I think, the primary reason(s) for use in the communities that use the latter definition.
All the people so worried about the use of the word nigger, I wonder if they in private company with people of their own race, when inevitably the nword is used, do they say anything? 9 times out of 10, I bet, NO!!!!. When I chide AA for using that word, I get the usual "it's used in love" push back and I always say bullshit, no love in it.....I still stand by that, but to scream about Maher using the word, again, in the context used, is hypocritical bullshit.
still_one
(98,883 posts)republican who have been pushing a racist, bigoted agenda for sometime, seem so offended by Maher's use of the "n" word.
Personally, I detest the use of that word, or any ethnic slurs, primarily because of the historical bigotry they represents, but also because of that history, it acts as a distraction. So even if it was used in the context of opposing racial bigotry, the use of the word itself would detract from the message trying to be conveyed
liberal N proud
(61,194 posts)People spend far too much time on what comedians say or do. Being upset over what this comedian or that comedian says makes everyone sound a little like Butternut himself and his complaints about Colbert or Alec Baldwin.
Turn it off, enough people turn them off, it changes or they go away. By parroting what the media reported that a comedian said is falling for the diversion.
Orrex
(67,111 posts)It's all well and good to tell people not to watch Bill Maher if they don't like him (or his sexism, misogyny, racism, transphobia or his endorsement of child rape) . But far too many Progressives are totally cool with these aspects of Maher simply because he sometimes says funny things and he sometimes pisses off Conservatives.
Even you fell into the trap by off-handedly referring to him as "a comedian." Sure, he's "a comedian" insofar as he makes a funny comment now and then, but he's more accurately considered a political commentator, and we shouldn't simply laugh off all of his disgusting personal views for the sake of an occasional punchline.
Bucky
(55,334 posts)I don't long to live in a media world where everyone reflects my point of view.
I would hope most DUers feel that same way.