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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt is wrong to condemn a person's entire life and character over one mistake.
Here is why the Bill Maher issue has touched a nerve. We obviously are still struggling with matters around race in this country, and people are very sensitive to racially charged language as they should be. At the same time, we are also a people who believe in putting things in context, using reason and fairness, looking at the whole picture, and forgiveness. We tend not to condemn a person's entire life and character over a verbal slip. Bill Maher is a strong progressive and satirical comedian who for many years has had very important discussions, has confronted right wingers very strongly, has brought light to many issues, who brings a variety of opinions to his show, and who ridicules Trump continually. What happened in this incident, if you watch the clip, was an off the cuff satirical joke that went over the top with the language. He has apologized publicly.
More context and a fair point here is that racially charged language appears and has appeared in song lyrics, poetry, dramatizations in many forms, etc. Tough as it is to see and hear, it is used in those specific media as it is about confronting the social issues around the language. Racially and ethnically charged language, moreso in the past, has also been used in satirical and other forms of comedy from the All in the Family TV Show to Richard Pryor's stand up comedy to Don Rickles routines and many others. These people were not racists but were rather the opposite, ridiculing and making fun of racial and ethnic stereotypes through comedy even to the point of invoking their own racial and ethnic backgrounds.
And verbal slips happen. For example, remember when President Obama was poking fun at himself by saying he couldn't even get into the Special Olympics? Oops! He very soon apologized for the slip and even called Arnold Schwarzenegger who was a longtime leader in the Special Olympics organization to apologize. Of course he didn't mean to make fun of disabled people. It was a joke gone bad. These slips happen. We have probably all done it in some way in our lives.
So in the larger picture this is a healthy conversation that requires mutual understanding. In my view Maher went over the top using the N-word in his off the cuff satirical joke and he should have apologized and he has. At the same time, he is certainly not a racist, we must keep things in context, and we should not condemn a person's entire life and character over this kind of slip. There is a lot to be said for forgiveness. That is a Christian value, a progressive value, an American value, and a human value.
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Tommy_Carcetti
(43,224 posts)LBM20
(1,580 posts)You have a right to your opinion, but I think it is an unfortunate one.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)What he said was fucked up. Stop making embarrassing g excuses and trying to shove his show down people's throats. He's often an ass, it's not for everybody- deal with it.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Geesh! F********CK! 
Heck am defending him and I don't watch him all the time, but I want him to be around and don't want him to be demonized by one mistake.
bettyellen
16. Oh come on now- being an asshole is his schtick. Get over it.
What he said was fucked up. Stop making embarrassing g excuses and trying to shove his show down people's throats. He's often an ass, it's not for everybody- deal with it.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,224 posts)....without all the accompanying smarminess, self-righteousness and baggage that he carries.
LAGC
(5,330 posts)They tend to be smarmy, self-righteous, and full of baggage. 
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And work". I'm going to need you to show me links where even a few people did that.
I know people keep telling me I called him a racist when I never did. And then pivoting to off topic stuff. It's weird.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)WHY?
I think OP stands alone by itself.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)this. I don't think it's an accurate take, the worst I've seen is people who already thought he was Islamaphobic (a very common theme w Maher) and kinda sexist already and not liking him before this saying this is also bad.
Not seen anyone out of the blue totally condemn his entire life and work- have you? It's not an accurate way to characterize the bulk of the discussions here. Not at all.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Actually, sounds like you agree with the OP but are taking issue with something that is not that important.
bettyellen
25. Because I think the OP is at best a gross exaggeration and few if any condemned him like that over
this. I don't think it's an accurate take, the worst I've seen is people who already thought he was Islamaphobic (a very common theme w Maher) and kinda sexist already and not liking him before this saying this is also bad.
Not seen anyone out of the blue totally condemn his entire life and work- have you? It's not an accurate way to characterize the bulk of the discussions here. Not at all.
Maraya1969
(22,509 posts)He is on our side. And he didn't call anyone the N word, he was repeating a story that included it. Big difference. I still say he is wrong but I question why anyone would have such feelings about such a dedicated liberal
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,224 posts)More like a left leaning libertarian with a knack for self promotion.
mnhtnbb
(31,411 posts)"not a house n word"
He was talking about himself. And what got lost in all of this is the conditions of manual labor to detassle corn in the fields of Nebraska
in the middle of summer in horrible heat and humidity. He was attempting to make a joke--yes, a bad one, with an unfortunate use of words.
The law in Nebraska allows kids as young as 12 to work at detasseling. A lot of the detasseling is done by crews of adolescents, but when
the farmers can't get enough teenagers, they rely on migrant farm labor. Overtime is not paid. Working conditions are awful. Law even
allows farmers to pay kids LESS than the minimum wage.
This is what happens when everyone focuses on words instead of the issue of labor conditions for agricultural workers.
Maraya1969
(22,509 posts)on Twitter about how it is OK for people of certain groups to say certain words ..... you know what I mean.
I think people should just end these words period. It is not good to talk about yourself in a derogatory manner and other times people get confused. I knew a couple young girls who were dating black guys and using the "n" word, misspelled, all over their FB pages. They were obviously just copying their friends.
I think that word just needs to go and I would hop some black leaders would help let it fade into the back yard of history.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Maher is not a person that wants the worst for America. He is very interested in the well-being of our country.
Most people (smart & not so smart) will f.u. one time or another. I expect them to own up and learn and change.
Human Nature.
I find his show infuriating at times, but think he adds value to the American people conversation.
LBM20
(1,580 posts)Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)a-hole-ness' sake.
I am so sure that he will think about this situation and his conclusion will make him even a better person. He will share with the rest of us, and it will also benefit us. I cannot wait to hear it - when he gets done digesting the situation.
Even though he is an atheist ( BTW I am too) I find him to have strong personal values.
B Stieg
(2,410 posts)For conservatives, "introspecting" now means "counting your money."
A great, new verb! 
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)B Stieg
(2,410 posts)I meant to agree with you.
I don't think conservatives are thoughtful or very reflective, either!
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)B Stieg
(2,410 posts)Yup.
Introspection is the act of reflecting on your actions and their impacts ("the examination or observation of one's own mental and emotional processes" . Those who adhere to ideology are, by definition, not introspective, thinking only of meeting the demands of whatever intellectual system they are operating under (neo-liberalism, neo-conservatism, religious systems, etc.) rather than on the impacts of the choices they make on the real lives of real people.
In terms of critical theory and the Frankfurt School, this is also called a lack of "reflexivity" which tends to lead to the institutionalization of "ideas" like racism, sexism, etc. In other words, thoughtless acts lead to thoughtless policies, and too much ideology blocks progress.
So, I believe we're actually in agreement.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)
samnsara
(17,655 posts)....same with Kathy and Robert Mapplthorpe and Lenny Bruce. They know there are things we as a society need to address but of most us are too scared to face it so these people are willing to go to the edge and then jump over and then report back to us what we were to afraid to find.
we are quickly becoming a divided nation. You know the saying..united we stand..divided we fall. How did that roman empire work out for you? Lets not make the chasm any deeper or any wider.
When someone on our side stumbles lets help pick them back up again and encourage them to continue the journey. If we cant unite with the other side lets DEAR GOD not split ourselves up!
You know who is just watching and waiting to strike.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)He is probably mortified and self-mortified by his mistake.
Love all you said! Thanks.
"When someone on our side stumbles lets help pick them back up again and encourage them to continue the journey. If we cant unite with the other side lets DEAR GOD not split ourselves up!
You know who is just watching and waiting to strike."
Dustlawyer
(10,499 posts)Bill was basically doing is impersonation of a joke many black people use themselves and Bill has obviously heard it. Should a white man be doing that, no, but in a quick on your feet joke thrown out he made a mistake. My wife, who is black, has used this joke on me when talking about helping me with yard work.
I do not agree with everything Bill says, but I do not expect to. The good thing about his show is that they debate a lot of issues that do not get debated publicly. We need to stop expecting perfection from public figures as if they are either all good or all bad. I am glad that Bill came right out and admitted he was wrong to make that joke.
Les Cowbell
(84 posts)
BeyondGeography
(39,390 posts)Part of what makes it work is his willingness to intelligently piss off all sides. Or not so intelligently, which occasionally gets him in trouble. This won't be the last time he'll be asked to apologize, but until I see evidence of hostility to people because of who they are as opposed to what they say and do, I'll support him.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)RWers are opportunistically using the left's good intentions and values.
classykaren
(769 posts)LBM20
(1,580 posts)opinions to his show as he should. We can handle that.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,060 posts)
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)I first read about that a couple of years ago. I never knew they were such good friends--even had dinner together often.
rpannier
(24,349 posts)Hunter S. Thompson & Pat Buchanan
Hunter Thompson and Bob Braudis
Mario Cuomo & Rudy Giuliani (Let's not forget, then Mayor Giuliani supported Cuomo over Pataki in 92)
Ted Kennedy and Orrin Hatch
Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill
almost forgot my favorite
former Korean President Kim Dae-jung who lead the pro-Democracy movement in South Korea and American columnist Bob Novak
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)People don't understand this. You are exactly right. What are you supposed to do? Go around hating all these people who you are around all the time?
No, you shake your head at the political stuff they say and engage with them on non-political topics.
There are exceptions. O'Reilly was a dour jerk and a bully off set to everyone on both sides of the aisle for instance.
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)and thank-you!.
PJMcK
(22,061 posts)Your point is exceptionally well articulated, LBM20. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Context and nuance are at the heart of effective communication. In general, people on the right side of the political spectrum are incapable of this complexity in expressiveness. This is why their leaders dumb-down to their followers: it's easier to Make America Great Again than to explain the incredibly complex steps to accomplish such an amorphous goal. People on the left side tend to see the breadth of these complexities which often creates internal divisions. Democrats don't march in lock-step with their party as do Republicans.
Bill Maher is certainly not a racist nor does he sympathize with Republicans. More to the point, there is obviously more to the man than just his public persona seen through his stand-up routines and television shows. He apologized. Let's move on to much more important issues. After all, if anyone needs to be fired, it's the highchair king.
Rustynaerduwell
(665 posts)Is it okay to watch and enjoy the movie Blazing Saddles?
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)What's your answer to your own question? or is this a trick question?
Rustynaerduwell
(665 posts)First of all I hate both "the n-word" and the n-word. I mean I hate the phrase "the n-word". It is a politically safe way to put the real word into somebody's head without the guilt of uttering the real n-word. You're still communicating the bad word. I watch Blazing Saddles and I laugh, in spite of the word "n*****" being said, and sometimes because it is said, as when the old lady says it while bringing the new black sheriff a pie. Words are just words until they are put in the context of a sentence to give them meaning. I understand Maher's use of the word to mean that, although he is stuck in his position as host of a show (kind of a slave to it), he is in a cushier job than most. In the case of Blazing Saddles, and in Maher's case, I give a pass. In which case, if either, am I wrong to do so?
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)This is of course a complicated issue and conversation. But we can tell who means well and who doesn't.
BeyondGeography
(39,390 posts)Governor William J. Lepetomane was way ahead of his time:
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/11/the-surreal-singular-relevance-of-blazing-saddles.html
Maybe it’s the comedy we need in 2016, too. Everybody could stand to take a load off with a half an hour’s worth of gags in the range between “absurd” and “surreal,” and that’s true even in the best of times. But this is one of America’s uglier times. The nation is caught in the presidential election cycle’s hype machine, whose effects are dizzying even in years when a portion of the electorate isn’t dead set on voting for a reality TV star and con artist. Watching Blazing Saddles in the context of 2016 is a trip: William J. Lepetomane, a handsy, salacious man so unfit for his government post that he has the word “GOV” spelled out on the back of his blazer to assert his title, reads as a perfect, oddly prescient Trump surrogate, if not because he’s a perv than because he knows jack shit about the job.
karynnj
(59,507 posts)There is a huge difference between Obama and the comedians. Comedians, actors, musicians etc have a different role in society and they will and should get away with a lot more. Each of us will have our own line and our own reaction if we think it is overstepped.
If they do something that is seen as stepping over the line, one consequence is that politicians they have supported will and should distance themselves. Here, remember that the connection is usually political only - and the entertainer is volunteering to help the politician get crowds or raise money. If the connection would instead lose votes, they should not only expect that they will be dropped, but distance themselves first.
Obama's comment was unfortunate and he apologized for it, but it was an exception to his normally very thoughtful, graceful persona. It is also clear that he intended himself to be the butt of the joke. I respect statesmen who aspire to be role models - even as it constrains their natural wit or humor. I also think it natural and justifiable to extend more slack to anyone who is usually doing and saying good things. It is also normal to excuse your own side and refuse a pass to the other side.
Now, we can ALL immediately list a President who completely breaks all the behavior norms that I can think of. As many people have said, this is not a normal time. However, we need to follow our own beliefs and standards. Sinking to Trump's level does not help us fight him better. Someone on TV noted that the Democrats getting into the mud with Trump will not work - he enjoys being there, we don't.
Squinch
(51,074 posts)hyperbole like the hyperbole coming out of supporters of Maher's racist slur (which Maher himself has denounced) since Trump's inauguration crowd claims.
You guys are ridiculous. And drama mongers. And it's starting to look like it isn't being done in good faith.
Here's the scenario:
Person 1: "Hey, Maher said something racist! He shouldn't have done that! Maher, you need to apologize and not do that again!"
Maher: "You know you're right. I was wrong. It was racist. I am sorry."
Racist slur defender: "Stop lynching Maher! Stop condemning Maher's entire life! Stop being hysterical and calling for Maher's ouster! YOU are all the reason why Democrats suck! THIS IS WHY WE LOSE! See, other Democrats? You are siding with a bunch of losers!"
Republicans: (*high fiving each other*)
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)He skewers all races, all religions equally. He's a comedian, and a very smart guy with a quick wit. It happens with every off-the-cuff comedian. They all cross the line and go for a bad joke.
I support him. This is NOT a big deal. There are plenty of racists and misogynists to go after, as well as serious issues. This isn't one of them.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)
bucolic_frolic
(43,430 posts)Squinch
(51,074 posts)
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)And I don't believe he's racist anyway - it was a poor (very poor!) choice of words but need not be a career ender.
An example - Maher also joked that trump's father is an orangutan. I'm pretty sure Maher doesn't really believe that the donald is the son of orangutans.
LakeArenal
(28,863 posts)He didn't call anyone but himself that word. He didn't call the guest that. He didn't call a group of people that. He said it about himself.
The phrase " sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" is definitely not true. Lots of people were hurt and he apologized. But in the end it was one word. One bad word.
Now please focus on those who do reprehensible things instead.
ancianita
(36,192 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)What about the PoC activist that go get out the vote in communities of color that Maher doesn't set a foot in.
Is he going to haul his ass to the South Side of Chicago to get out votes?
It's time to empower Democrats of color because so many on DU failed the easiest test concerning race yesterday.
lib87
(535 posts)We hear you loud and clear.
MRDAWG
(501 posts)$240 a year!
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)- Condemned his entire life
- Called him a "klansman"
- called for his show to be cancelled
What's next? Are we going to be accused of calling for him to be executed in a public square.
Most people on DU just said that he shouldn't have made the joke and it was foolhardy for white liberals to jump to his defense at the expense of PoC allies, who just like Maher contribute to the party. "Real Time" isn't playing in many communities of color. Maher isn't knocking on doors in predominately black neighborhoods to get out the vote. It's those allies, who were told to shut up, and focus on Trump that's doing that.
I forgive Bill Maher, but I'll never forget the way "progressives" acted when confronted with an issue of race that required them to simply condemn someone that says things that they like because that was easy. And if you can't simply call out the usage of one word, how the hell can you be relied on to deal w/ harder issues concerning race.
P.s. To the "imposing politically correctness" crowd, don't come asking for PoC votes come 2018/2020. You can go straight to the trumpers with that argument.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Look at the coverage of Hillary - dwelling on anything that could be deemed a mistake and not a word about the good she did in her long career.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)It was a bad joke and a rare instance of him failing to be witty in an off the cuff moment.
I cannot be convinced he's an actual problem, nor a bad person because of this. to me, it's over and not an issue. Especially since he acknowledges it's was in bad taste. That's about all you can ask of someone when they mess up. Apologize and move on.
