General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWinner, Manning, Snowden, Assange, etc.
What is the fundamental difference between what each has done and the reason for them being labeled a hero vs a villain, aside from their motivations and politics?
choie
(4,111 posts)it depends on who is answering the question.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Response to B2G (Original post)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Is that actually possible?
I'm genuinely curious, mainly because right and wrong seems to be about 50 shades of gray when it comes to leaking info. And it seems to morph over time.
Response to B2G (Reply #4)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
emulatorloo
(44,171 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)I've been there more times than I can count.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Winner - Patriot
Manning - Mixed bag. Gets the patriot label for the torture she endured at the hands of the US. Also for her attempt to go to the WP and NYT first.
Snowden - Traitor(self explanitory)
Assange - That piece of shit is in his own category
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)That Snnowden fled the country to China and Russia and Assange lives in the Ecuadorian Embassy to not face his charges.
That some can't see this, well, it is interesting.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Fully agree.
B2G
(9,766 posts)I remember when this first came out, a ton of people were supporting him and the intense dislike of the NSA was palpable.
What changed?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I am extremely appreciative of some of the information he released. He is also a traitor and should be jailed. Both thoughts can be held without conflict.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)As we discovered that not only did he reveal information about illegal domestic spying programs, but also revealed perfectly legitimate foreign intelligence operations, the bloom came off that rose for many. The fact that he released a statement that Russian was a champion of free speech didn't help either.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)You hit the nail on the head.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Manning, Snowden and Winner stole classified material, turned it over to be published and took a stand.
Well, Manning and Winner, anyway.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Otherwise, what's the point?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Critical difference is we know next to nothing about Winner's motives, agenda, biases, etc., and we are reduced to commenting wholly on the action rather than any incentive, stimulus or impulse.
Hence, if an idiot falsely ascribes an equivalency to them, I simply have to conclude idiots are ascribing.
And that she's not running away from the consequences of her actions also implies a great deal.
As to heroes, I have none but Elizabeth Smart.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Her grace astounds me.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Lots of what she leaked was of zero possible whistleblower value because she was just downloading as much as possible anything and everything she could download in such large amounts that she couldn't possibly have reviewed it all.
I know this personally and for a fact because there are documents I created among those leaks. Documents that are nothing but logistics status reports and updates on critical shortages for equipment at that moment. Zero whistleblower value.
rogue emissary
(3,148 posts)The Intercept still redacted portions of the report at the request of the NSA. Winner leaked one report and the sensitive information was still protected. The others released a lot of information indiscriminately. Many are still fighting about how much damage was done by the data dumps.
I'm not prepared to cast Winner as a hero. Yet, I'm also not willing to diminish her to elevate the other leakers like Snowden and Manning.