I don't care who doesn't like it but I am going to say it.

[nikibatts]

All those Independents and Dems who stayed home, voted third party, or voted in protest for Trump are responsible for the tyranny of the minority that we and our government are all struggling under now.

[Demsrule86]

1. Yes it is a shit show brought to us by those fooled by Russian trolls,bots...and those

who swallowed the GOP anti-Clinton bait hook, line and sinker.

[FarPoint]

2. My thoughts exactly...

Seen it all before.....

[Demsrule86]

94. Yes, let's hope we have all new candidates in the primary...and that everyone involved

understands we need to beat the hell out of Trump not each other.

[Volaris]

17. Yep this president is a walking, talking breathing argument for Public Education,

And what happens when you get conned out of the necessity of critical thinking skills. Those people you just mentioned? Enough of them believed the Internet was more truthful than their own eyes and ears that it became possible to steal our presidency from those that knew better.

[meadowlark5]

29. Exactly!

That is why De Vos alarms me so much. We've already got a problem with a swath of this country under educated. You spread that to more areas and then choose the type of curriculum and you have a dumb electorate that's easily made scared, paranoid and questions nothing.

I think that's also why melding religion with politics has been so successful too. You don't question God or Jesus. It's God's will even though you don't understand it. Transfer that mindset to politics and elected "leaders" and you get the same blind following.

[sprinkleeninow]

63. What about when shrub, the mad cowboy, offered to the citizenry

that "god told him to invade Iraq".

[meadowlark5]

72. And the people (mostly Christians) who supported him were perfectly fine with that - as long

as it's not their kids going there to invade it.

[sprinkleeninow]

84. Hypocriticals. Those types are "Not in my backyard!". n/t

[Volaris]

96. The same ones who voted for Trump believed him.

The rest of us knew that was dick cheneys voice.

[sprinkleeninow]

98. I still got those types (acquaintances) yammering away

at me with their rw crap.
I blew my cork at a 'friend' not too long ago.
Shut him up at least in my direction. My husband has breakfasts with him now and then. He only asked how I was Saturday, nothing more.
He emailed me (us) revolting lying crap about the True President Barack Obama during his 8 year presidency. He knew my political leaning, but that didn't stop him. With friends like that, who needs enemies.
I currently have a short fuse with these hard heads that drone on and on with their utter rubbish.
Just wait till 'they' witness 'their' so-called republican administration vanish as smoke vanishes, as wax melts before a fire. (O.T.) And I hope to my God, VERY SOON.
"Save My Country!"

[Demsrule86]

93. You are right...People should have known better.

[certainot]

86. all brought to us largely by 1200 unchallenged ignored rw radio stations

most of the trolling and hacking played off 30 years of unchallenged clinton and liberal attacks and lies

so democrats still ignore it, and don't even poll for it, and it's the closest association to trump outside of white

the biggest political mistake in history continues

[Demsrule86]

92. Well it will soon be gone...the RW radio stations are now on life support.

[certainot]

95. it's brought them trillions in war, global warming denial, presidencies,

supremes, deregulation, tax breaks

they don't mind subsidizing it for a few measly billion

now it's keeping the base together behind trump, keeping the gop in line, attacking his critics - it's the best weapon they have and waiting for it to fall apart is lousy strategy by the prog orgs, very stupid of them

[Demsrule86]

99. I hear talk like this all the time...but no ideas how to combat it. However, it is dying.

http://www.salon.com/2017/04/24/rush-limbaugh-sean-hannity-face-an-uncertain-future-with-iheartradio/

"The parent company of iHeartCommunications, which syndicates programs by conservative talk-show hosts Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, appears to be headed toward bankruptcy.

In a statement filed last week with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the federal agency charged with regulating companies that offer investments to the public, iHeartCommunications’ parent company, iHeartMedia Inc., said that it had “substantial doubt” that it would be in business by the middle of next year.

Formerly known as Clear Channel, iHeartCommunications also distributes the shows of entertainers Steve Harvey and Ryan Seacrest. It also owns and operates more than 800 radio stations.

The radio industry as a whole has been fading away, not because people aren’t tuning in but rather because advertisers have been shifting their dollars to the online world where performance can be measured much more effectively, according to radio industry veteran Seth Resler:..."

[certainot]

100. talk radio demise was predicted long ago - but it persists

and the hangover will continue even when it does fade - the only sane strategy for liberals/americans is to destroy it. until then democrats will continue to play catch up and get our internet asses kicked by a few hundred liars on 1000 radio stations. it's fucking stupid.

just look at the whole comey event - his whole participation re the election is predicated on the 'importance'/ public reaction to bullshit created by talk radio - hillary emails/benghazi - and now that's what republicans are using to defend trump - loretta lynch, susan rice, etc

most of putins trolling hacking success came from piggybacking talk radio generated bullshit going back 30 years.

destroying it and the talk radio gods will have a positive retroactive effect

fox constantly gets the blame but this is why talk radio rules:

- talk radio is unique - it is the only major medium with NO poltical challenge from the other side of the spectrum
- fox cannot create like tr - people are monitoring it, there is one basic point of dissemination, with a handful of people looking into cameras and trying to look certain when they lie
- it cannot do the unchallenged repetition needed for creating big lies - a few hundred liars on 1000 radio stations all telling the same lies with their own flavor is a monstrous buzz
- there are free easy political alts to fox just a click away
- there are no free easy alts for politics on the radio in most parts of the US - esp those 40 states with 80 senators
- talk radio stations can be coordinated locally- they can spread the exact same national bullshit and trump excuses, swiftboating of trump critics, keeping blue dogs and wayward repubs in line, or they can do local propaganda coordinated for attacking ossoff in GA, or fighting local legalization or environmental legislation, or sell another wall mart or publicly funded stadium for billionaires to profit from, for eg.
- there's no monitoring or study of rw radio - it's basically invisible to those it attacks and has been attacking for 30 years
- and that's the biggest political mistake in history

how to fix/destroy it?

Poll — Polling rarely distinguishes talk radio from other media. Polling is an easy way to measure its effects. This should be the bare minimum for analysts trying to understand why US democracy has become so corrupt, dysfunctional, and hostage to an alternate reality.

Monitor — This is another minimum for the Democratic Party if it wants to stop playing catchup. A software combination should be developed to automatically record and transcribe major talkers on the national and state level so they can be searched. Patterns of repetition of distortions, exaggerations, and lies will help measure talk radio’s impact. Democratic candidates need to know when and who those stations attack — before they start showing up in the newspapers as letters to the editor or in think tank-written op eds and papers. The material can be used for alerting and correcting media, in advertising campaigns, and in debates. Public access to such material will inhibit politicians and media from repeating the lies and distortions.

Credit the messengers — One major reason talk radio is so effective is that it is ignored and unchallenged. Democrats need to put a RUSH tattoo on Trump’s forehead and that of every Republican politician and media hack who repeats the same talking points. Democrats can win merely by responding to lies with a preface like “That’s what Limbaugh says, but...”

Boycott — While Stoprush and Flushrush weren’t really boycotts they had that effect. That whole effort and boycotts needs to extend to all businesses that advertise on any rw radio station. While it will hurt liberal radio the rtadio is about 95% — 5%. When the monopoly is broken stations will open up for liberal talkers. It's easy and fun to listen to the local stations live or online and get some phone numbers and better yet emails addresses from their web sites. emails may be more likely to get to the boss and linger. And thank them for trump, russian stooges, global warming, loss of health care for your family, loss of net neutrality, and so on.

Protest — the radio stations, but maybe better than that:

88 universities that help Republicans deny global warming and minimize protests

[Demsrule86]

105. It takes time and unless we have Democrats who are willing to fund a similar media movement...we

have no media.

[certainot]

106. i don't agree. 'competing' with their well-protected monopoly is not a real option

like mom and pop vs wall mart. dems merely have to stpop giving them a free speech free ride.

getting a few unis merely to discuss exiting rw radio would spread and pretty soon few advertisers would be left for them

it wouldn't take long

[Eyeball_Kid]

101. That "life support" comes from the bottomless pockets of billionaires.

[Demsrule86]

104. The support is drying up...iheart may be out of business by the end of the year.

[OnDoutside]

3. True, but on the positive side, look at the reaction of the young voters in the UK election

yesterday. It CAN change, get out there and work hard is the answer.

[TrishaJ]

12. It will change when we

stop voting on computerized voting machines with no paper trail.

[OnDoutside]

25. Yes that is bizarre.

[sharedvalues]

4. Not the media? Not Republicans? Not Putin?

Lots of factors played a role.

[Barack_America]

5. Yeah, why give Republicans a pass?

[HopeAgain]

7. Or the millions who can't be bothered with participating in our democracy. Nt

[AlexSFCA]

40. no

mass voting is a powerful weapon against all of the above. So much BS around how you need to do more than voting. If all everyone did - vote each and every time, those we elect will do the job so you don't have to.

[murielm99]

67. You are right.

Considering what I am seeing at the local and state levels, we will have massive turnout.

New grassroots organizations, increased presence at county Democratic meetings, record turnouts at the usual fundraisers and get-togethers, the letters I am seeing in the papers, the marches and much more point to greater turnout.

[El Mimbreno]

46. all of the above, plus...

the non-voters, the anyone-but-Hillary crowd, the haters, the 3rd, 4th,5th,6th party candidates who nibbled away at the totals. the list goes on and on.

[HopeAgain]

6. Do you feel better now?

I hope so, because whether your right or wrong, it isn't going to help us move forward and win their votes...

[FailureToCommunicate]

26. True. Hindsight is useful only if it prompts different action going forward.

Or if you're just interested in history.

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Major Fail

Welcome to DU, but what a load of nonsense.

[doc03]

10. If Hillary had won you can bet we would be

having impeachment hearings too. There were Republicans that said they would bring charges as soon as she won.

[wishstar]

13. She and I would gladly welcome that alternate universe as Repubs had no case against her

But the Russian investigation with many leaks by same whistleblowers we have heard from since election would be ongoing, and Hillary would have stepped up pressure on Moscow and probably unclassified more of the Russian hacking info, as Mark Warner is currently recommending to benefit public knowledge.

Comey testified she had been truthful in FBI interview (in which FBI even tried and failed to trick her into making an incriminating statement about classified markings) and he would still be FBI director with Sally Yates, Preet Bharara, and all the other great public servants that have been fired from their jobs.

[doc03]

14. It's like our government is totally

disfunctional anymore.

[kcr]

38. Let's see. Impeachment hearings due to partisan witch hunts, or

Impeachment hearings due to actual crimes committed? Which to choose?

[Cosmocat]

45. It would far worse

from a chaos standpoint.

Someone would have gotten killed if she has tried to seat a SCJ.

Honestly, the country enabled the bloodless coup vs the out and out rebellion.

[XRubicon]

85. LOL

[retrowire]

11. Not

an uncommon opinion.

[NCTraveler]

16. A good addition for this topic.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029180976

[lancelyons]

18. I agree and I do think the Russian meddling CHANGED VOTES

It seems like they want to constantly say that Russians did not change votes... sure they may not have actually voted through hacking but with all the hacking, wiki leaks, fake news being spread, I AM DEAD CERTAIN they changed some votes.

To act like nobody changed their votes as a result of that mess is crazy.

[Nitram]

19. I just had that discussion yesterday when someone told me Trump was my fault becasue I supported

Clinton. Some people have it backwards and may never see the light.

[qanda]

20. You know who is responsible?

Trump. Trump is responsible for being a horrible person.
Trump voters. Trump voters are responsible for voting for a horrible person.
Republicans who still support Trump. Republicans who still support Trump are responsible for still supporting a horrible person.

[HopeAgain]

27. You are correct, sir...

But some people have a hard time of letting go of old resentments, apparently.

[erinlough]

50. This is true.

And the free flow of money to and from campaigns from big business. The lack of voting paper trails, I can get all my receipts digitally immediately, but I can't have a confirmation of my vote? Greed, a poor me attitude by voters, distrust and ignorance. Have I left anything out?

[inchhigh]

21. Nope

All of the establishment Democrats who forced a flawed and ultimately failed candidate on the base are responsible for the tyranny of the minority.

[Freddie]

23. Any reasonable person

Who can't figure out that we have a TWO PARTY SYSTEM and that a vote for third party or staying home was a vote for Dolt 45 - it's their fault. And anyone who thinks that HRC was so awful that Trump was a better choice doesn't belong here.

[DanTex]

24. .... LOL

[Bernardo de La Paz]

49. Perhaps you could try not divisively re-arguing primary

Much better to unite against the common threat of Republican President Trump.

[intheflow]

53. Perhaps the OP could do that same. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

55. The OP is NOT re-arguing the primary. . . nt

[WoonTars]

78. Uh huh....sure they aren't. .

[inchhigh]

56. Hmm

Is that not exactly what this thread is about?

"I don't care who doesn't like it but I am going to say it. "

Divisive is only bad when one group does it?

[brush]

52. As if a certain socialist senator from a small state wasn't flawed. He'd have been beaten worse...

by the Russians, repug dirty tricks and all the rest.

If you can't win the primaries you sure aren't winning the general.

[Cha]

60. Your post is pure Bull. The stupid Elitist Liars stein and sarandon own

a chunk o trump.. while they sit on their cushiony millions and those less fortunate get fucked by trump.

[NurseJackie]

61. LOL

[certainot]

87. so you stayed home and now you pound on your computer made with slave labor in

china.....??

i hope all the dumbfucks who didn't vote are at least going to every protest they can

[JI7]

90. the base are minority voters and they went for the candidate who ended up winning the nomination

[That Guy 888]

22. ...

Six months later, Clinton associates' wariness of Bush and his likely financial firepower was still acute: Democratic pollster Celinda Lake wrote to Clinton adviser Minyon Moore to warn her that she’d been testing Bush’s economic message for a client. “It has been remarkably strong. Getting even half of african americans and democrats and two thirds of latinos. Some thought it ended too harsh. But the perspective on the economy has really worked. Now we didn’t tell people this was from bush. But it’s a warning."

So to take Bush down, Clinton’s team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agenda included a memo to the Democratic National Committee: “This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field,” it read.

“The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” read the memo.

“Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:
• Ted Cruz
• Donald Trump
• Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously."

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428

[woundedkarma]

28. You are still being fooled by the russians

This is fake news. It's stuff you've been told to divide us. You are (I hope) unwittingly doing exactly what the russians want you to do.

Same with all the people who say HILLARY. Or SANDERS. And refuse to talk to the other person.

You're, also, just as bad as Trump. I had the biggest electoral victory! It was so big. Bigly. Sore losers.

You apparently didn't listen to Comey yesterday when he said the Russians INTERFERED with our election. He said it plain as day.

“There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever,” Comey said during his testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee. “The Russians interfered in our election in the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose, they did it with sophistication, they did it with overwhelming technical efforts, and it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government.”

It was not the "Independents and Dems who stayed home."

Even if there were such a thing. That's their right. And if you don't believe in rights then why are you on DU?

I voted for Hillary, I'd have preferred Sanders but anything was better than trump. But RUSSIA interfered in our election and we have him until the republicans realize (if ever) that this is about the survival of the USA.

[HopeAgain]

30. Amen!

Well put.

[gordianot]

32. Trump serves Russia and Russian money.

Most Republicans serve money and have not learned yet that Russian money comes with obligations. It did not take brain washing to create a Manchurian Candidate just a greedy bankrupt wannabe narcissistic pretentious failure.

[kcr]

41. Speaking of rights. The OP has the right to express their views, correct?

If you are on DU, which means you believe in righst, then that should be a basic right you recognize. Isn't that why we're on DU? Yes, people have the right to stay home and not vote. And others have a right to express how they feel about that choice and those who make it.

Maybe you can point out sources that say that Russians have been spreading fake news about voters staying home. I haven't seen that.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

54. Yes, the Russians interfered with our election.

And in large part their efforts of interference resulted in malleable independents and Dems staying home, voting 3rd party, or voting for Trump in protest.

[clu]

97. russian interference

IMO that statement was made in the context of the WikiLeaks stuff

[YOHABLO]

31. We can play this game all you want but it will not make the situation any better.

What if Gore had been chosen the winner in 2000? What if Kerry had won? Yeah, we can go there. It is what it is. We now have to deal with it.

[sprinkleeninow]

64. "It is what it is." Now,

what are we going to do/doing about it.
(Any and all things.)

I know what I'm doing.
It's costing me extra time and money, but I am driven.

Don't shout me down, Ima silvery elder! (Catch my drift?)

All you able bodied younguns, GIT GOIN'!

[Grammy23]

33. I think what still blows my mind about this whole debacle---

is that tRump told us and showed us who he is during the campaign. He also has a track record as a human being going back 70 years that could be examined if anyone was still not sure what kind of leader he would be. It was clear he was a narcissist with classic symptoms of the disorder. It was always, always all about him. He said and did outrageous things that would have sunk any other candidate.

In spite of the things we knew about him, people turned out to vote for him. They came to his rallies, cheered like they were at a ballgame and inflated his already enormous ego. They defended or ignored every horrendous thing that was revealed along the way. The more outrageous things even got a laugh or tacit approval. No amount of reasoning or rational talk about why he was a bad choice seemed to penetrate their brains.

So now, after several months of his presidency and we are no longer worrying about what he will do, but instead are worrying about what he DID, many of his supporters are strangely silent. Or worse, they tenatiously hang on, defending him or criticising his critics. They flatly refuse to admit they were wrong, that he has turned out to be as bad or worse than any of us ever dreamed.

i just want to know why. Why continue to support a liar? Is it really so hard to admit they were wrong? Are we really infested with that many people who think tRump is their idea of a good leader? If that is the case, we are in deep, deep do do....

[sprinkleeninow]

62. 'Infestation'. Very apt description. Thanx for that.

I've plum run out of synonyms.

[Grammy23]

65. My dad was in the pest control business for 30+ years....

So infestation was a word I learned at an early age.

[sprinkleeninow]

66. Who gonna rid the infestation in the Peoples' House I wonder.

(30 yrs.--That's a long haul!) 🐜 😉

[bucolic_frolic]

34. Disinformation, propaganda, targeting of a divided party

was what defeated HRC

Russians saw opportunity and exploited it to their advantage

Clinton never gained traction. Every time her polls started to move for her,
some issue was floated to deflate them. The meme she was as corrupt as
Trump and bound at the feet to Wall Street for example. She was attacked
from the left and the right and found there was no room in the middle.

[DownriverDem]

36. But

the folks that bought into it, gave us trump.

[Madam45for2923]

43. and her supporters were also attacked/bullied from all sides!

Even in Brooklyn, NY lots of her supporters kept to themselves.



bucolic_frolic
34. Disinformation, propaganda, targeting of a divided party

was what defeated HRC

Russians saw opportunity and exploited it to their advantage

Clinton never gained traction. Every time her polls started to move for her,
some issue was floated to deflate them. The meme she was as corrupt as
Trump and bound at the feet to Wall Street for example. She was attacked
from the left and the right and found there was no room in the middle.

[LisaM]

51. You are so right. n/t

[DownriverDem]

35. THANK YOU!!!

I've thought it for a long time. During the election I pointed out all we would lose if trump won. But no, some folks voted purity which was insane. The Dem Party has never done purity. If left leaners haven't learned from trump et al, they never will.

[JoeStuckInOH]

37. If someone wants to vote third party or even republican...

good for them. they exercised their right. Whether or not I understand their decision making process or not, I don't fault them one bit. People vote and the cards fall where they may.

Now the people that don't vote (especially the people that gripe and didn't vote)... I take plenty of exception with them.

[Butterflylady]

39. Amen

[Madam45for2923]

42. hear! hear!

[Paladin]

44. Couldn't agree with you more.

To all of those Let's Reject The Excellent In Favor Of The Perfect people: thanks for nothing. We've got a brain-dead vulgarian in the White House, running the country like it's just another financially-shaky Atlantic City casino---and you played a prime role in putting him there. I hope to God we can avoid the same kind of train wreck in the future.

[kentuck]

47. Those Democrats and Independents probably don't read DU?

Many may not even vote at all.

Nobody can force them to vote for anyone.

[Trial_By_Fire]

48. It's always the fault of someone else...

[yurbud]

57. Wow. I've never heard that here before.

[Orsino]

58. Independent/third-party voters only look significant...

...when you conflate them with the 100 million people who voted for Trump or stayed home. The latter are surely far more to blame.

[Ligyron]

59. I wonder just how many of these independent/third party voters there actually were?

I'll bet not all that many. There were many people who stayed home or never voted but that's always been the case. We don't even know who these people are or why they stay home or even more important - who they would have voted for.

I keep hearing how these mystical folks cost us the election but if there were that many of them then maybe we needed a better candidate or at least one not so widely hated.

I gladly voted for her but she absolutely was/is.

[XRubicon]

68. amen.

Now they act like they didn't cause this.

Being an adult means you don't get unicorns and rainbows all the time, doesn't mean we all don't want that but you can't burn everything to the ground because you can't get everything.

[warmfeet]

69. I like it.

No worries here. Get the hell out and vote, damnit! Do not stay home. One last thing; vote for the party of caring people, vote for the democrats.

[blue-wave]

70. Spot On!

They couldn't see the forest through the trees. Or maybe just a dense fog dimmed their sense of what was the correct thing to do.

[Skittles]

71. agreed

they didn't just fuck themselves, they fucked us all

[BigmanPigman]

73. My friend's mom told me this week that she voted for Birney...

Did she think that would make me happy? Would I excuse her? FUCK NO! She is responsible for this situation!

[OhNo-Really]

74. In this Repub majority area

Many nice people in this Republican area voted 3rd party because of Trump's morality.

I begged them, told them a 3rd party vote was a Trump vote

No one listened
😱

[appleannie1943]

75. Sometimes tasting bitter makes you more willing to climb a tree to get honey and more .

appreciating of the sweet.

[XRubicon]

77. Maybe a smart person avoids stepping in obvious dog shit

Maybe people who watch reality shows need to step in shit to learn, that's ok for you.

[appleannie1943]

91. I did not say it was ok, I simply pointed it out. There are those in this world that

do not learn that electricity can be harmful until they stick their finger in a socket. That is why we have Darwin awards every year.

[WoonTars]

76. So the candidate not campaigning in Wisconsin after the primary

....or taking Trump inroads in Mi and PA for granted weren't to blame?

Get. Over. It.

We need to come together or we're NEVER going to take back Congress or the Whitehouse.

IT'S OVER. TIME TO MAKE PLANS FOR 2018!!!

[salster]

82. Why get over it?

Now everybody wants to be all kumbaya and let's work together. Where the f**k was this sentiment during the last election? I remember being shocked at all the Hillary Hate on DU during the primaries. You wanted the piece of shit in the Oval Office over Hillary, then here you go. Enjoy the shit show that all you never Hillary voters helped to elect.

You can never rebuild without facing the truth.

[Amaryllis]

79. No they aren't. THe Republicans and the Russians stole the election. They could have/would

have no matter who the nominee was. If we keep blaming it on other things and don't deal with that, we will continue to lose.

[BrooklynTech]

80. Sheesh

We get it. How many times are we gonna see the same ole thread started?

[melman]

81. I love when people say something that is identical to what the majority here think

and then act like it's some big risky statement.

[aikoaiko]

83. Yep and all the "good Democrats" who showed them the door when voicing concerns.

yep. And I don't care show doesn't like it me saying it.

[southerncrone]

88. Cuz they wanted "change". Too shallow to recognize that "change" could be bad as easily as it could

be good.

[iluvtennis]

89. +++ agree

[heaven05]

102. If they don't like

what you said, then they don't like this truth that is a huge reason we have got our open racist, fascist, sexist, bigoted, oligarchy now.

[MFM008]

103. Yes..those PLUS

People like my best friend who didn't vote because she never thought maggot would win.
And my mom's best friend who did the exact same thing.