Do we ALWAYS have to go high when they go low?

[BigmanPigman]

Is it about time to play with them using their rules at their own game? When are we finally going to learn that they don't play nice and fair? Should we play it their way?

[uppityperson]

1. Do we have to act ethically? Yes. Eom

[still_one]

2. If someone lies continuously, I want that person to be called a liar. I don't want to go "high",

and refer to that person as someone who frequently states "falsehoods"

[uppityperson]

6. It is ethical to call a liar out on their lies.

[JI7]

18. how is calling them out going low ? michelle called out trumps being a sexual predator

She did one of the best jobs attacking his character while most others were attacking Hilary.

[Hortensis]

33. Yes. Ethical commitment to government of, by and for the people

is not just what we have to offer the nation, it's who we are.

Even if our voters would accept conservative chicanery, and they won't -- that's a big part of what makes them Democratic voters -- the Democratic Party could literally never, ever begin to beat the right at anti-egalitarian, authoritarian and elite-serving deceptions and betrayals.

Among all the motives our people have for going into government virtually always present is a desire to use government to serve the people. We're not some nicer, less corrupt version of "them." We're very different.

All those people who so lazily prefer to imagine "there's no difference" need to understand that, not have it confirmed.

[dalton99a]

3. Republicans are waging asymmetrical guerrilla warfare, and Democrats worry about color coordination

of their uniforms.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Extraordinary circumstances demand an extraordinary response.

[nycbos]

4. This should be our policy

[dalton99a]

5. +1

Can't fight them with butter knives

[Ms. Toad]

35. The logical fallacy in that is that it is NOT good for the goose,

and if we imitate the goose we become one.

You can't suddenly switch off unethical behavior once you're in office - because you perceive that it worked . . . so if it was good enough to get you in the office, how bad could it be to continue?

The means by which we win has to be consistent with how we want to govern.

[Girard442]

7. They are trying to kill us. You do the math.

Think I'm being hyperbolic? What else is the end result of destruction of the middle class, unaffordable health care, environmental collapse, militarized law enforcement, and neverending warfare?

[GallopingGhost]

8. We need to play it their way, only dirtier.

When they go low, we go high is a nice sentiment. It was nice when Mrs. Obama said it, and it's still nice. But it doesn't work.

What it needs to be is when they go low, we go lower. That's hard for a lot of Dems to accept, because we're not scuzzballs. But that's the reality.

I've said it before, I think that's the one ghastly mistake President Obama made during his presidency. I think he came into office with a genuine desire to work with the Repubs, and I think he always wanted and hoped for that. They simply don't play that way.

It is the party of big money, big business, self-righteous moral indignation, racism and ignorance. And as we are all seeing, there is no bottom low for them. They don't give a damn about democracy.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. You are pissing in the wind here. Every time any post suggests

we stand up for ourselves - fight back - call them out - be more assertive - call a lie a lie - it gets slammed by 90% of the people.

I am so sick of hearing the sanctimonious "we will never sink to their level." No one is asking that. People won't even call Trump's win a "technical win". They won't use the word "liar" and opt for some watered down euphemism with qualifiers ...."I am not sure, the investigating isn't complete, I don't want to imply I know all the facts, etc. etc." Ad nauseum While the other side incessantly chants "Lock her up"

BP you are 100% right. We have lost the House. We have lost the Senate. We have lost the presidency. How's the high road working out ??

[Quanta]

10. NO!!!

If Democrats continue to allow the opposition to set the terms and frame the debates, there will NEVER be even ground. Now is the time to come out swinging, for sure, no matter the "old school" protocol or previous decorum! This may very well be the Dems weakest point, actually. Time for us to start kicking ass and taking names, dammit!

[Phoenix61]

11. Personally, I like the sentiment

They go low, we kick them in the nuts. That doesn't mean we get to lie or bully but it does mean we get to call a duck a duck and not apologize to the duck for calling it a duck. It's not alternative facts, it's a lie. Climate change is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of scientific fact and to say otherwise is a lie. Kicking 20 million people off health insurance is not a health care bill it's a death sentence.

[Bettie]

24. This!

We can fight back and use their own tactics against us and not lie or be bullies.

However, even the most mild criticism of that side is framed as "bullying" by them.

We have to get our message out there with the same intensity and ruthlessness that they do.

Our leaders should be out in front of every camera they can get, not triangulating or trying to find a "nice" way to state the truth, but by repeating the same messaging over and over regardless of whether it sounds mean.

We need to beat them at their own game and we can't do that by lying down and taking all they dish out and asking for more with a smile and a "please, sir".

[Phoenix61]

25. Yep!

They whine and we say "Suck it up Buttercup, deal with it." Our "I'm sorry, but..." approach is apologetic, passive and just down right weak. You are so right, say the truth, and keep saying it, over and over again. Let them come up with a way to combat it.

[Bettie]

27. And when they make excuses or say

"well, this factor makes it mean something else"...go after them like a rabid wolverine pointing out that NO, their weak excuses don't wash.

[Phoenix61]

28. +1

Yep, double down and keep doubling down.

[YCHDT]

12. Going high doesn't mean being a wimp or not hitting back when called for

[LenaBaby61]

13. Going High:

IS about to get 24 million folks thrown off of their health care.

tRump, McConnell nor the GOP gives any fucks about whether 24 million folks have access to good or affordable health care--NOT ONE--which is why thuglicans are on a fast track in the dark and in a HURRY to pass that murderous TheGOPAndtRumSaidFUAndDropDead health care bill.

I'd prefer to go low and stay ALIVE, thank you

Health care is a RIGHT, not a privileged for rich, mostly white males and their families.

[ProudLib72]

14. Is calling them out on their bullshit going low?

I don't think so. My hero Maxine calls them out. Kamala Harris called them out. Ted Lieu calls them out.

I wouldn't call it going low. I'd call it standing up for yourself, your party, and your country.

[beachbum bob]

15. of all else we need liberal versions of the Koch Brothers to throw billions into state and local

races

republicans won because they know how to fight and had the money to do it.

[LaydeeBug]

16. When they go low, we CAN'T back down! Use *everything* that works. Our democracy depends on it

[JI7]

17. what is it that you want to do ?

[WinkyDink]

19. I never signed on to Michelle's philosophy. And frankly, neither did her husband.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Post macabre images of Trump on instagram that attract the gaze of the Secret Service ?

[HAB911]

20. Most think so

It's why we may never win another election, IMHO of course

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. We must do whatever is necessary to peacefully depose Trump.

Anything that distracts from that goal is wrong and anybody who engages in such action is selfish and self indulgent beyond measure.

[Paladin]

23. I'm sick to death of living up to right-wing expectations.

If we're not prepared to express our outrage at this point, then when? After trump takes our country all the way down the toilet? If you're not furious, you're not paying attention. We're dealing with primitive beasts on the other side---the only thing most of them respond to is fear.

[luvMIdog]

26. I will never strive to become more like them. Or become the monster. They are not my teachers/

mentors.

[NurseJackie]

29. "Going High" indicates a position of political weakness. It's a salve for the wounds of battle ...

... and of being defeated (or for the certainty of being defeated.)

[gordianot]

30. I always have a plan when speaking with RW relatives.

I formulate a different plan when speaking to non relatives. I like the high road but leave it to others.

[Turbineguy]

31. The Democrats nned to start

their own ratfucking operation. They can learn it from the republicans.

[Golden Raisin]

32. Republicans stand together united in outrageous obstructionism,

sneer at the concept of "high road" and play dirty. The only thing they understand is a baseball bat bashed (metaphorically) into their skulls. This campaign, this election, this President and the Republican Party of 2017 are no longer "normal". All the rules have changed. Until Democrats recognize that basic fact and stop trying to use tactics and techniques that worked in the past we will get exactly nowhere.

[rock]

34. It does appear that way

Because we value Truth, Justice, and the American Way. The republiCONs do not.

[Les Cowbell]

36. A simple binary choice is appealing and reassuring but not workable

Of course what it comes down to is a winning strategy against the corporatocracy and their political errand boys. In these times I think that means using the same tactics McConnell Ryan tRump et al have in trashing norms like the Garland nomination, ramming through the ACHA, etc. DO NOT - if the Dems take the House in 2018 - turn around and say oh we're going high and not acting like they did. If that's going low so be it. The stakes, like people's healthcare and the world situation are too important, especially with that dangerous creep in the White House. Do what it takes to take as much power as you can from them. 20 years ago progressives were cowed by the right's attacks. Can't take that anymore or worry about them. Keep fighting.