It would be wise, I believe, on DU, to avoid attacking victims

[MineralMan]

lying in hospitals after being shot by a mass shooter. We can safely attack Republicans in Congress, but should avoid attacking any Republican in Congress who is currently fighting for his life after being shot. Doing that is not productive of anything but justifiable criticism by people in general.

Instead, we should wait until that victim is recovered, or at least well on the way to recovery. To do otherwise opens us up to criticism that is deserved. I suggest we exercise some sensible and judicious reticence in that regard.

It's a suggestion, of course, and not an order, since I have no authority to issue orders. I think it's a good suggestion, though. People are watching what we say here. Let's not give them good reason to point out our failings, shall we?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I wish Rep. Scalise a full recovery.

And I hope that as he recovers he might give a few thoughts to (1) the disturbing frequency of mass shootings these days, and what might be done about it and (2) how much he'd have to pay to have his injuries treated if he didn't have excellent and affordable health insurance, with the realization that he is in a position to take that benefit away for millions of others. Sometimes a close call can make people re-think their priorities and their values, and I hope this happens for Rep. Scalise.

[MineralMan]

5. I believe we should remind him of that after he recovers fully.

Until then, I think we should probably belay such comments. They give the appearance of something I don't think we want to project.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Of course. It was not my intent to bust on him now.

Just hoping the experience gives him food for thought in the future.

[Leith]

8. I Agree

Does anyone really think any of this will happen? James Brady was the last republican who learned the lesson.

[Iggo]

2. It's wise anywhere and everywhere, not just on DU.

[BainsBane]

3. Yes, I've been disappointed in some of the comments I've read.

[cwydro]

4. Yes.

Indeed.

[Ezior]

7. Thank you.

[Willie Pep]

9. It is fair to talk about policy.

Like maybe we should put gun control back on the agenda. But I agree, going after the victims is cruel. I know Scalise was an NRA supporter and all but that doesn't mean he deserved what happened to him.

[RKP5637]

10. Well said!!! n/t

[freddyvh]

11. i won't attack them...but

i won't show them any sympathy since the GOP in congress has never shown any sympathy to other victims of mass shootings

[MineralMan]

12. You need only say nothing regarding that victim.

The rest of the GOP in Congress, however, are fair game. That's how you do it.

[KingCharlemagne]

49. +Fucking Infinity. - nt

[FreepFryer]

13. +1 (n/t)

[angstlessk]

14. Well, first reports was of an injury...not a serious injury

I am sure folks who, at first, said some unkind things now wish him a speedy recovery...so they can discus gun control once he is recovered?

[MineralMan]

15. Sadly, some people are quick to attack Republicans who are victims of

anything, really. Some who consider themselves to be "progressive" even celebrate it, in fact. I find that execrable behavior that casts a bad light on all of us. Everyone should follow the example of Bernie Sanders in such situations. He understands that there is a time and place for everything.

There are several threads on DU that do not show us in a good light. Instead, they provide fodder for our critics. I think that's too damned bad, really. Most of us don't act that way, and we should let those who do know that we disapprove of it.

Hence my post.

[angstlessk]

16. I agree 100%

[7962]

20. Once again, you are correct. And check out Twitter & the nasty comments celebrating it there.

And they're not "plants" or "fakes" like so many want to believe. You can look thru their posting history and see their leanings.

The one i remember earliest here was when Pence and trump were flying somewhere right after the election and a few here fantasized about the plane crashing

[Bettie]

23. I don't want them dead

but I admit to giggling a little at them being stuck together as an 'Odd Couple/Gilligan's Island" mashup only with two people (Trump/Pence) who are actually evil following a non-fatal plane crash.

The other survivors would be trying to find a way to leave the island without them.

As to the shooting victims. I hope they recover fully and quickly.

[7962]

17. First reports here were that he was shot, nothing else. The slime commenced instantly.

And later we learned he was shot in the hip, which is still not really minor.
So we base our response on the apparent severity of the gunshot wound?

[angstlessk]

24. First reports said he was in good spirits...

"Prior to entering surgery, the Whip was in good spirits and spoke to his wife by phone,"

I am so sorry he was shot...I wish this never happened, and wish him a speedy recovery... see also Gabby Giffords who to this day suffers from a gun shot....do you recall all the hoopla about republicans being at fault?

[7962]

29. Yes I do remember. So will you be surprised when the opposite happens in this case?

And obviously you are not one of those being referred to by the OP. Go look at the first OP about the incident as it happened this AM & you can see some heartless comments early on

[angstlessk]

33. I agree, let's leave those knee jerk responses to the likes of trump jr et all

at the same time I understand the frustration many feel regarding guns and shooters.

[7962]

54. I'm sure before the day is out Trump will say something stupid to redirect the attention to HIM.

Intentionally or not!

[lunatica]

18. Going after the victims is what Republicans do, not us

thank you.

[7962]

25. Thank YOU!

[pennylane100]

30. You can certainly speak for yourself and probably many more on this board.

However this is a good time to reflect on what kind of fractured society we live in. The man that would deny health care to millions of his fellow citizens is in the hospital, hopefully receiving the needed care to make a full recovery. How ironic that he belongs to a party that is working very hard, and will probably succeed in preventing even a minimum level of care to so many of his fellow citizens.

We have had wall to wall coverage of this terrible event but how can we not consider how much harm he and his party are trying to heap on the most needy members of our country. I wish him all the health and happiness he wants for all his countrymen.

[lunatica]

66. I wish him an awakening of humanity

I wish him an awakening of his humanity. There's nothing like the truth hitting you square in the face and right where you live for you to understand what it is to be a human being and to be able to extend humanity to everybody else.
Unfortunately too many people are too mean-spirited to understand that we all have feelings and we all care and we are all valuable.
Fortunately though, many of us don't need to be shot to have humanity.

[elmac]

19. never seen anyone here attack victims

just the hypocrisy of the repug party

[7962]

22. Then you havent been reading the posts in the related OPs

Lots of slime being flung around, from "no sympathy....", to even worse

[angstlessk]

26. The slime is the republicans blaming all democrats for this shooting!

[elmac]

28. Correct!

and we don't need DU'ers joining their ranks.

[gopiscrap]

51. agreed FUCK anyone who is gop

[elmac]

27. Well, I would not call not having sympathy attacking anyone.

You should see some of the things they said about us over the years. Sorry, no crocodile tears here.

[7962]

31. its a pretty shitty attitude even if you dont want to call it an "attack"

Its not the DU of the Bush years, I know that much.

[elmac]

35. My attitude is fine, thank you very much. nt

[7962]

53. Sorry, I was referring to the person who made the comment, not you.

THAT person has a shitty attitude

[mcar]

21. Agreed

We are better than that.

[elmac]

34. Oh well

i guess a room full of fascists telling a man who would die from lack of healthcare that it was his problem pretty much took what little sympathy i had for fascist pigs.

[mcar]

37. I get that

I'm appalled by that attitude. But violence doesn't help. Ever.

[elmac]

46. Violence, just like war, never solves anything

We live in a violent society, in a country born of violence. Its not going to get better any time soon.

[mcar]

47. No, it's not

I fear it will only get worse.

[EX500rider]

58. "Violence, just like war, never solves anything"

War has solved many things from slavery to Nazi Germany.

[elmac]

60. Tell that to the Vietnamese, Syrians, Iraqis, ect. ect, ect...

[EX500rider]

62. Didn't say it solved everything....but it has solved things.

[Saviolo]

32. I do not blame the victims of this shooting, only the ones playing the victim

The ones who were not there, like Paul Ryan, who have teary press conferences while injuring millions directly.

The ones like Donald Trump himself who suggested 2nd Amendment remedies against a Hillary Clinton presidency, but feels "victimized" by this attack and the media in general.

All of the right wing talk radio hosts who will no doubt wring their hands about the violence of the left while they've been stoking stochastic terrorism for decades, only now learning that they don't get to aim something like that.

I have sympathy for Rep. Steve Scalise who is actually a victim of his so-called allies, and I wish him a full and speedy recovery.

[elmac]

36. How long have these idiots on the right been preaching their second amendment remedies?

it kind of bit them in the ass today. They reap what they sow.

[bora13]

38. of course

we here have a tendency to walk on the REAL side of life, as opposed to the
life the "opposition" lives in which is clearly through the lookin' glass.

As I said here before and before me by Lewis Carroll, you have to run twice as fast to keep up with their
dirty kind of tricks and accusations. They will move heaven and earth if they discover a scapegoat for the left
such as they might want to make this DEPLORABLE incident.

over and out...

[ananda]

39. Agree

What's upsetting me are the rightwing attacks and threats
against Democrats because of this.

[Yossarian22]

40. Maybe take accountability for the effect of hate speak in forums

I agree with MineralMan. Any "glee" from a DU poster about someone getting shot, simply drives people in the middle further away and gives the right fodder for discussion, all of which leads to Democratic losses in elections. This person could be almost anyone on Facebook or DU these days. It should be scary, not a moment for rejoice.

- "James T. Hodgkinson, ... defined himself publicly by his firm support of Bernie Sanders' progressive politics -- and his hatred of conservatives and President Donald Trump."
- "Republicans are the Taliban of the USA," he posted in February.
- "Hodgkinson's own descriptions on social media portray him as an avid consumer of political shows. His favorite television shows were listed as "Real Time with Bill Maher;" "The Rachel Maddow Show;" "Democracy Now!" and other left-leaning programs."
- "He had also joined several anti-GOP Facebook groups, including "Terminate The Republican Party;" "The Road to Hell Is Paved With Republicans;" and "Join The Resistance Worldwide!!"

[NutmegYankee]

41. I'm sorry, but I can't.

A man cannot serve in his role as Whip to piece a minimal amount of people together to take the healthcare from 24 million people and then expect sympathy and good wishes. Most Congressman can say they just voted for the bill, this man actually wheeled and dealed to get the votes to throw people with pre-exisiting conditions under the proverbial bus. He's a monster! It makes me physically ill to think that people advocate just brushing that under the rug.

I don't advocate harming anyone, but I can't be all sympathetic about his recovery either. It's tragic that this gunman did this.

[alarimer]

68. And he now has one of those pre-existing conditions.

Which would deny him coverage were he not a Congressman.

[Jake Stern]

42. Refusing to hide the fact that I feel absolutely no sympathy for him being shot

Last edited Wed Jun 14, 2017, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)

is not an attack on him.

Compare his "fight for life" to the thousands who will suffer and die because of his votes in congress.

Compare his "fight for life" to the women who will die if he gets his way and Roe is overturned.

And speaking of Scalise being "pro-life" - Compare his "fight for life" to all the babies, elderly and poor who will starve because he voted for devastating cuts to SNAP.

Sorry if it seems mean but there are people so much more deserving of my thoughts and prayers than that asshole.

He certainly has no thoughts and prayers for us.

[wysi]

57. My personal take on this...

I'm savoring the delicious irony of someone who cashes big checks written by the NRA getting shot with an assault rifle.

[ailsagirl]

43. Amen to that

[Hekate]

44. This, MinMan

[rainlillie]

45. It's not "attacking" to bring up his voting record.

He along with other republicans voted to let mentally ill people have access to guns.

[KingCharlemagne]

48. Thanks for your concern. Scalise would have no problem whatsoever

with the forcible ethnic cleansing of 11 million human beings (undocumented Latino workers). I say he got exactly what karma says anyone who supports the NRA should get, i.e., a taste of their own fucking medicine.

[Jake Stern]

63. Be careful - calling out an asshole right winger for his record is now considered hyperbole

Agree with you completely

[rivegauche]

50. I am not attacking any victims.

I simply don't give a shit if an NRA-owned republican congressman gets shot by some random maniac. Nope don't care, and I don't feel bad about not caring. Chickens, roost, etc.

[Kleveland]

52. We should not be assigning blame here, but showing concern...

for a fellow American, who was injured by another fellow American.

Regardless of party, for the good of all, we need to try to find an understanding of what drives the perpetrators of these hateful acts to the point that they feel that harming another is the correct course of action.

There is something wrong going on in the land of the free, and the home of the brave.

How can we get to a point where we can all respect each other, and create a life of security, happiness, and respect for ourselves and others regardless of belief, race, color, handicaps etc?

We must find out how we can help those who would belittle any other citizen for reasons of hatred, greed, lack of compassion or whatever it is that is contrary to life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

These events can be refining moments in the survival, or destruction of our society, our country, and the values that we all hold dear. Our needs all have a commonality that binds us to each other.

Those that seek to create division and hatred for their own selfish ends, will themselves reap what they sow.

This is a basic precept of all civilized societies, and religions.

We have more in common, than we have differences.

We need to embrace that beautiful aspect of creation , and the short lives that we have been given on this beautiful planet that greed seems intent on destroying.

Live, and let live. Not every man for himself.

Peace!

[whathehell]

59. It's difficult when one poster claims "being shot is not an attack" and

another accuses Scalise of "having no problem with the forcible ethnic cleansing of 1.1 million people".

The hyperbole is running wild, unfortunately.

[stonecutter357]

55. The NRA thanks Rep. Scalise for his leadership in this important effort, the gun group said .

In the face of former President Obama’s early-2016 executive actions to tighten gun-control laws, Scalise joined fellow Republicans in Louisiana — known for its lax gun laws — in criticizing the then-commander-in-chief. “It is insulting to the American people that President Obama is attempting to take away the constitutionally protected rights of law abiding citizens in an obvious effort to change the subject away from his failure to keep America safe from radical Islamic terrorists,” he said, according to the Times-Picayune. He had a chance and he did nothing . edit for link http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/steve-scalise-rep-wounded-va-shooting-article-1.3246692

[juxtaposed]

61. For the OP, Thank you for thinking you are a moral compass for this despicable act.

I don't think you can set what is acceptable or not acceptable. Did you read Gabrielle Giffords post today and read the vile, hateful posts that followed.

[MineralMan]

67. I don't think anything of the sort. I posted my opinion.

You might have a different opinion. I can't set your moral compass for you, nor will I try. I will, however, post my opinion freely on DU.

[Gothmog]

64. The victims of the shootings are in my prayers

I am praying for full and complete recoveries for each victim. The Houston victim was released this afternoon

[Generic Other]

65. Sometimes hard to remember who the victim is

It's all so murky. A House Divided. Everyone a victim, enabler, or abuser. Domestic violence cases are the worst, right?

But a sense of decency suggests we should not point fingers when compassion is the order of the day.

[fescuerescue]

69. I agree with all of that

But I think it over states the importance of essentially a chat room.

In general I see alot of handwringing over what is written here, more so than many other forums and chat rooms, but in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. What will happen in the real world will happen. The only time the nation pays attention is when someone gets stupid and makes threats etc.

nonetheless, I agree.

[MineralMan]

70. It does matter, though.

DU has a searchable database of posts. So do many other discussion forums. DU isn't actually a "chat room." It is a forum where people discuss political issues. Those discussions are usually serious ones.

You may not think that what is written on sites like this one matters. You're incorrect, I believe.

[fescuerescue]

71. It's a matter of degrees I think

Everything you wrote (with the possible exception of me being incorrect is accurate.

However political discussions on the internet are about as common as grains of sand on the beach.

[NobodyHere]

72. I'm not going to attack the victims

But I'm not going to show any sympathy either