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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums2016 election is officially illegitimate. TIME: Hackers Altered Voter Rolls
VIDEO at
Link to tweet
Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data, Officials Say
Massimo Calabresi - Jun 22, 2017
The hacking of state and local election databases in 2016 was more extensive than previously reported, including at least one successful attempt to alter voter information, and the theft of thousands of voter records that contain private information like partial Social Security numbers, current and former officials tell TIME.
In one case, investigators found there had been a manipulation of voter data in a county database but the alterations were discovered and rectified, two sources familiar with the matter tell TIME. Investigators have not identified whether the hackers in that case were Russian agents.
The fact that private data was stolen from states is separately providing investigators a previously unreported line of inquiry in the probes into Russian attempts to influence the election. In Illinois, more than 90% of the nearly 90,000 records stolen by Russian state actors contained drivers license numbers, and a quarter contained the last four digits of voters Social Security numbers, according to Ken Menzel, the General Counsel of the State Board of Elections.
Congressional investigators are probing whether any of this stolen private information made its way to the Trump campaign, two sources familiar with the investigations tell TIME.
If any campaign, Trump or otherwise, used inappropriate data the questions are, How did they get it? From whom? And with what level of knowledge? the former top Democratic staffer on the House Intelligence Committee, Michael Bahar, tells TIME. That is a crux of the investigation."
........................
mopinko
(73,419 posts)but for evidence of who was barred from voting.
those rolls tell who is a dem and who is a thug, unless they have jungle primaries.
if there are disproportionate numbers of regular, steady dem voters in any precinct who found themselves barred from voting, the election was well and truly stolen.
we have all seen that 58-42 split that comes up way more often than is statistically possible.
examine any county or precinct that had that outcome.
KeepItReal
(7,770 posts)Provisional ballots aren't counted on election day.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)The whole scheme involves a lot of different strategies. MILLIONS of voters disenfranchised for felonies in Jim Crow states is one of the very longest running point shaves. Right off the top, MILLIONS in an election decided by 40,000 voters. Anyone can do that math.
Voter ID laws in the last four years removed MILLIONS more. Voter caging tactics employed in removing voters from registration roles. Voter caging is institutionalized when you remove people who vote less frequently.
The list of point shaves is very long.
madamesilverspurs
(16,481 posts)Bastard president.
.
onetexan
(13,913 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)Bastard pResident he is
louis-t
(24,582 posts)Every. single. day.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)drm604
(16,230 posts)The important thing here isn't the knowledge that alterations by a foreign power were discovered and rectified. The important thing here is the knowledge that such alterations were possible and were attempted.
This opens the possibility, maybe even probability, that there were other attempts that were not discovered.
The question is, were the ones that were discovered just dry runs that weren't followed up on, or were they the small percentage of attempts that were detected, with the larger percentage going undetected?
We need to look at provisional ballots. We need to look at absentee ballots.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)If at least one person tried it, even unsuccessfully, then we can assume it happened a whole lot more and was undetected until proven otherwise.
drm604
(16,230 posts)One person trying to vote illegally does not indicate a pattern of illegal voting.
Repeated hacking by a foreign government indicates a likely organized widespread attempt.
Also a single voter cheating is unlikely to make a difference. A single hacker can conceivably change the outcome.
The two things are very obviously different.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Helps our argument and the other doesn't. In neither case has what is being alleged shown to have any impact on the election. You have people calling the election invalid for something that hasn't even been shown to have impacted a single vote, yet. If Hillary had won and republicans were making this hacking argument, what do you think the reaction here would be?
Takket
(23,550 posts)voter data was stolen, but is there any evidence here that actual vote totals were tampered with?
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)When you have DRE voting there is no paper, no way to recount, no way to verify, and no way to access the proprietary counting code owned by the Republican corporations counting the votes for us. It is an honor system were you have to completely trust the people who gerrymander, suppress voters, pass photo ID laws, and generally hate people of color and anyone liberal. I just don't see a problem there, if you know what I mean.
Volaris
(11,497 posts)Lockable on election day (but viewable in real time so anyone who wants to can see what its doing), but otherwise it should be available to anyone who wants to run mocks with it, just to see how well it (doesn't) works.
KeepItReal
(7,770 posts)on election day.
If you can mess with the voter rolls and knock registered voters off the list or out of their specific precinct's list or as having already voted... Those folks get placebo paper provisional ballots when they show up to vote (if the polling place even has enough of them).
Any hackers with access to the local voter rolls and the party affiliation of voters can knock out whomever they wish.
roamer65
(37,846 posts)haele
(15,188 posts)So, if enough voters of a certain party just "disappear" from the rolls, an estimate of the political make-up of the provisional ballots is considered before there's a decision to review them.
So in a close district where there's not an overwhelming number in a particular party, if there's a concerted loss of voters on one side - say, 85% or so, the other side will get the most votes in such a way that a normal estimate based on the expected political make-up of, say, 55/45, can keep a hacked removal of a particular party's registered voters "hidden" during the election.
A slight or even fairly reliably Democratic district could end up with a 15% loss of eligible voters on election night just because of a voter roll purge and provisional ballots, so long as the GOP "win" is beyond the established trigger point.
Haele
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)a regular ballot on the day of election?
If they're there with a voter reg card, show up at their proper polling place, and the poll workers are like 'huh-uh, we don't know you' in a seriously large-scale way ... at least a decent % of them would complain to the help lines and call centers, wouldn't they?
Or is the theory that so many people are too ill-informed to realize they should say/do something?
lamp_shade
(15,401 posts)L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)And I'm not the only DU'er who has been involved in election integrity films.
This Dorothy Fadiman film followed on Stealing America, Vote by Vote. Reclaiming grew into a much broader subject as context was added, but started with the core report on Laguna Pueblo's experience of disenfranchised voters and the question of New Meico's election being rigged.
Generic Brad
(14,374 posts)Hackers shut down DU on election day. The very people who were most likely affected or tuned into this were denied a platform to discuss for a few days. By the time the smoke settled and DU was back up, we were all numb with disbelief and moving onto how to cope with what had just happened.
BlackCherokee
(31 posts)csziggy
(34,189 posts)Due to problems with the voter databases. Reports from California and other places claimed that voters' registrations were flipped from Democratic to Republican, problems with verifying addresses, tens of thousands of new voter registrations that never showed up on the voter rolls, and more.
Every time a voter shows up to vote and there is a problem, that slows down the process, making the lines and wit times longer. For many, that can take more time than they have set aside to vote and because of other obligations, they cannot stay longer or return to get their vote in. Or if the voter has health problems, they may not be able to wait long enough to vote.
If voters use mail in ballots, discrepancies in the voters' information can get those ballots thrown out. Often the voters are not notified that there is a problem with a mail in ballot so they may not get a chance to correct whatever the issue is.
Just messing with the voter databases could cause massive problems with voting and that in itself could affect the vote totals.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Just more cheating methods to add to the sum of it all approach to Republican point shaving.
Link to tweet
csziggy
(34,189 posts)Especially if the tampering concentrates on Democratic and independent voters.
Zambero
(9,935 posts)will be richly deserved.
BigmanPigman
(54,783 posts)We should have a do-over. We all know that if it had been Hillary and Dems instead, that is exactly what would've already happened. She would've been impeached by now if she did 1/4 of what loser45 and his team did.
Maraya1969
(23,444 posts)bresue
(1,007 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)
LenaBaby61
(6,991 posts)Who STILL believes that Bernie would have walloped tRump if the "Dems hadn't taken the nomination from him."
(I put up with him because we grew up together).
Anyway, I keep trying to make the case to him that NO Dem was gonna win the White House in 2016, because the election was rigged for tRump, with the help of GOP voter-suppression and with help from the ruskies. No matter how much credible evidence I show him, he won't budge. Well, I'm going to email him this bit of information and probably go round and round with him tonight on the phone. I can hear him now "The Dems robbed Bernie. He should have been the Dem nominee." Bernie said he wasn't cheated out of the Dem nomination. He's the ONLY Bernie supporter friend I have that thinks the way he does. All of the rest now feel that Bernie wouldn't have won either given the credible evidence that the GOP along with the ruskies had the 2016 GE in the BAG for tRumputin.
"They'll" have it in the bag for thuglicans in 2016 & 2020, because THIS crooked White House is in bed with the ruskies and condone voter-suppression.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)VERY common.
LenaBaby61
(6,991 posts)I'm very lucky that within the group of Bernie supporter friends I have, save my childhood friend, they all now KNOW and UNDERSTAND what happened with the rigging of the 2016 GE. Yes, they all are still very pro-Bernie. ALL wanted him to win the Dem nomination. However, they all (Except my friend who left the President oval blank on voting day) know what time it was and voted for Hillary in the GE and tried to tell their other Bernie supporter friends/family across the country to vote Hillary, but many tell me that they couldn't make sense with their Bernie supporter friends/family members for the most part during GE election time. They either wrote Bernie's name in or left that area blank. I asked these friends how their friends/family feel now about tRumputin being president, with help from russia GOP? My friends tell me that while some may be coming around to the fact that the russians/GOP helped to get tRumputin into the White House, by in large, their friends/family all are sticking with the "Bernie could have easily beaten tRump," and WON'T even bother addressing how horribly tRumputin and the GOP are literally destroying this country, and how their about to MURDER it's citizens with this death care bill, which is going to affect tRumputin/GPO supporters in hideous ways. Still they keep up with the "But Bernie would have easily beaten tRump."
HAPPY that my Bernie supporter friends are NOT Sarandon, Cornell West, Jill Stein types.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)AllyCat
(18,655 posts)Bernie supporter here. Voted HRC in GE. Don't believe EITHER of them would have won given what we are learning.
hadEnuf
(3,564 posts)This is Donald Trump we are talking about; international buffoon.
mcar
(45,812 posts)MSM is so far ignoring it, save Time.
neohippie
(1,263 posts)This information is part of the leak that Reality Winner was arrested for and was reported in other stories. The truth is that most people aren't paying attention to the Russia hacking stories, because they are being told that it didn't effect the votes
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/russian-breach-of-39-states-threatens-future-u-s-elections
The signatures were then sent through Homeland Security alerts and other means to every state. Thirty-seven states reported finding traces of the hackers in various systems, according to one of the people familiar with the probe. In two others -- Florida and California -- those traces were found in systems run by a private contractor managing critical election systems.
(An NSA document reportedly leaked by Reality Winner, the 25-year-old government contract worker arrested last week, identifies the Florida contractor as VR Systems, which makes an electronic voter identification system used by poll workers.)
In Illinois, investigators also found evidence that the hackers tried but failed to alter or delete some information in the database, an attempt that wasnt previously reported. That suggested more than a mere spying mission and potentially a test run for a disruptive attack, according to the people familiar with the continuing U.S. counterintelligence inquiry.
Maraya1969
(23,444 posts)with Gorsuch recused of course.
There are really smart legal minds out there. One of them please find a way to bring this to court to make it official that his presidency is illegitimate!
There has to be a way
cstanleytech
(28,304 posts)ways to force a President out of office and they are impeachment by Congress or the voters vote them out in 4 years and right now unless irrefutable evidence is found to prove Trump committed a major crime there will not be any impeachment.
Enoki33
(1,605 posts)made trump so publicly confident when all the polls were against him? The stench of treason is in the air.
malaise
(294,130 posts)the same night - I never had a doubt
Lock them Up!
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)
malaise
(294,130 posts)Exit polls are scientific evidence - when they're off, stealing has taken place.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)
The battleground states had plenty of very robust polls to average and robust exit polls too, this is not even disputed.


Science no longer applies in the USA. Everyone gets to select their own reality and consensual reality died with political polarization.
malaise
(294,130 posts)science takes a back seat - same with Trump University - all fake - all fraud
greytdemocrat
(3,300 posts)But they aren't.
After voting someone can lie.
I never put any credence behind exit polls.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Not proven, but a logical conclusion.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)I suspect you're right, though.
BigmanPigman
(54,783 posts)FakeNoose
(40,705 posts)They've already proven Wisconsin and it's very obvious that Pennsylvania was tampered with.
(I live in PA). Michigan I'm a little less familiar with but I believe they're looking into it.
Basically every "very close/tossup" state that suddenly went red, is suspected of being fixed or hacked.
karadax
(284 posts)In one case, investigators found there had been a manipulation of voter data in a county database but the alterations were discovered and rectified, two sources familiar with the matter tell TIME. Investigators have not identified whether the hackers in that case were Russian agents.
This is the only question I want answered. This part goes beyond influencing or changing people's minds.
YCHDT
(962 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(61,696 posts)amrita73
(18 posts)At this point, nothing is shocking that may be revealed about Republicans and conservatives, unfortunately.
And certainly nothing about Dump is shocking, filthy as it may be.
They have been acting as extremists for a long time.
Some of their supporters even openly say they don't care if all of this is true. That to me is beyond belief.
In fact, the Republicans want the U.S. to be like Russia, an oppressive oligarchy.
They're always pretending to believe in democracy and debate--- but they do things like
legislate in hiding, in the veil of night.
It irks and nauseates me any time that Paul Ryan begins to talk about " a battle of ideas"
because of the sheer hypocrisy in his words.
NCjack
(10,297 posts)Kablooie
(19,075 posts)for Trump to win the swing states by the margins he did.
This is alleged by a source that is not mainstream news so it may or may not be true but I hope a legitimate news or scientific source follows up on this.
byronius
(7,936 posts)It's just a successful Russian sneak attack on the United States aided and abetted by racist greedhead traitors.
I mean, it's not like the end of the world. Unless we don't act.
Gothmog
(176,683 posts)Lyricalinklines
(367 posts)lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)And time for us all to rightfully be as we had intended to be in the first place:
![]()
fallout87
(819 posts)But how official is this? I can't find the story on any of the major networks. Also, it doesn't help that there are numerous senate testimonies saying there was no proof of altered votes. I hope and pray this is true(only because we may get a redo of the election) but I don't want to get my hopes up...
Crash2Parties
(6,017 posts)It was an all out, coordinated effort.
Crosscheck & similar voter striking lists
VoterID laws
Redistricting
Diebold style machines that can have their totals changed at the county level w/o a trace
and,
Russian hacking into more insecure systems.
Any breakdown as to which districts & states were hit by the hacks / intentionally had insecure systems? Because security experts have been very specific about what is secure and what isn't for...oh...well over a decade, now, maybe 15 years or so.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Teacheral
(33 posts)The Nethlands had the right idea. They switched to paper ballots to prevent Russian interference.
duhneece
(4,491 posts)Several of us, in several states, realized that we need voter-verified auditable ballots...we pushed, we collected info and we won! I'm not sure which other states did this, too. I learned of the problem on DU from LoudSue.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)In 2004 the black boxes were already in use and exit polling showed the election was red shifted significantly.

The Help America Vote Act of 2002 (Pub.L. 107252), or HAVA, is a United States federal law which passed in the House 357-48 and 92-2 in the Senate and was signed into law by President Bush on October 29, 2002.
Help America Vote Act - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_America_Vote_Act
HAVA was brought to us by a gang of corrupt Republicans, and sponsor Rep. Bob Nye (R-OH) ended up in federal prison for corruption.
Jan-07-06 -- by Botany
He is right smack in the middle of the stolen election too.
Sponsored the Help America Vote Act ..... 80% of the country's vote tabulated w/ Diebold & EES
Blocked giving John Conyers subpoena to investigate the 04 Ohio vote
Held kangaroo court hearings in Columbus on 3/22/05 about the Ohio 04 vote ...
@ that hearing Mark F. "Thor" Hearne who had been chief legal consul for bush / Cheney 04
was allowed to give testimony about democratic voter fraud ...... he was speaking for an organization
that was formed on 3/17/05 in Dallas TX by T Boone Pickens ...... and it's biz location is a post office
box.
Bob Ney is a player as keeping the crooks in power ..... I hope he sings like a birdie.
One more ? is a bad rug a crime?
duhneece
(4,491 posts)You have the equivalent of a PhD in the history of all of that! Me, in New Mexico, just knew a tiny piece of the whole thing, like the pure evil of Diebold's 'owner' who basically promised the win to Republicans...but I still was part of the push here in New Mexico....just manana-ish!
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)New Mexico Election Data with a Statistical Summary and a Non-Voter Analysis.

In New Mexico, why does the Sequoia and Danther E-voting equipment fail to count so many votes? On average, 2.62% of voters did not vote per these machines, compared to 0.46% non-votes in the Op-Scan counties.
United Voters of New Mexico - Statistical Analysis of Voting Results
YCHDT
(962 posts)Botany
(76,686 posts)and the republicans went along w/it.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Link to tweet
New details reported Friday by The Post reveal the extent to which the Russian meddling bore Putins own signature and brushstrokes.
U.S. intelligence officials have been pointing at Putin since October, when the Obama administration released a statement declaring that the stream of embarrassing emails and other material being posted online by WikiLeaks and other sites were tied to Russian hacking efforts that only Russias senior-most officials could have authorized.
By Greg Miller, Ellen Nakashima and Adam Entous
June 23, 2017
a report drawn from sourcing deep inside the Russian government that detailed Russian President Vladimir Putins direct involvement in a cyber campaign to disrupt and discredit the U.S. presidential race.
But it went further. The intelligence captured Putins specific instructions on the operations audacious objectives defeat or at least damage the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, and help elect her opponent, Donald Trump. ..........
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)#1- the voter rolls are public. Both parties download the latest versions weekly if not daily because it is a treasure trove of data. And when the final version is downloaded that is locked in before the election all one has to do is compare them.
If tens or hundreds of thousands of people who were registered to voter were suddenly purged, the DNC and state parties and the many private firms paid to watch thy data would notice. And since they retain that data it's auditable even to this day. Do you think the DNC isn't smart enough to go compare the data sets?
#2 if it somehow went unnoticed on the rolls and people were turned away who were properly registered in the volume it would take to change the outcome we would be hearing about it all over on Election Day and on until now. Remember what happened during the Democratic primary in NYC where some people were improperly removed? Everybody knew, it was a huge topic of discussion. That was just a few thousand bier in one city in one state, to affect the outcome of the election would require it be done orders of magnitude bigger in many states- and you think nobody noticed?
#3 we have Democratic poll watchers and poll worker at every election site. They are smart people who would notice a trend of people who should have been properly registered being turned away in big numbers and it only affecting democrats. We have numerous election watchdog groups who are all out watching closely for any signs of voter suppression and running hotlines to report problems like this. For this to have occurred they would all have to either be complicit in the crime and not acting when they saw it or totally incompetent.
If they have actually succeeded in altering voter rolls to any meaningful degree it would be very obvious that it had occurred.
Response to L. Coyote (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)and American democracy.
Shameful.
YCHDT
(962 posts)riversedge
(80,026 posts)BSdetect
(9,048 posts)They knew.
BSdetect
(9,048 posts)Bayard
(28,987 posts)Even if the election was completely stolen. Computers were not even in our founding fathers dreams.
Impeachment is the only answer.
kentuck
(115,276 posts)It appears that might be the case.
But, don't tell him. He will go further nuts than he already is.
Kablooie
(19,075 posts)I'm not clear as to how the hacks changed the results,
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)trueblue2007
(19,140 posts)pansypoo53219
(22,957 posts)the eventual loss will sting greater. but i would gladly wait til 2018 so congress is in democratic hands. strategy.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Carissa House-Dunphy - June 24, 2017
Although Russian hacking and influence in the 2016 presidential elections has already been confirmed and proven beyond a doubt, news released reveals that their efforts went far beyond what has been previously reported.
According to Bloomberg, suspicions that Russian government operatives attempted to hack into U.S. voting machines to swing the election in Trumps favor has now been confirmed in at least 39 states. ........................
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Russian Interference in U.S. Elections Federal intelligence and cybersecurity officials as well as state government and election board leaders testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee about Russian hacking and U.S. elections. Acting Homeland Security Deputy Under Secretary for Cybersecurity Jeanette Manfra said that 21 states were targeted by Russian hacking attempts during the 2016 election cycle, but that no vote tallies were altered. Ms. Manfra and the other witnesses discussed what methods were employed in those attempts to discover vulnerabilities in U.S. election infrastructure, lessons learned for future election cycles, and recommendations for how federal and state officials could be in better communication about potential breaches and ensuring voting systems security.
Former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson testified before the House Intelligence Committee at a hearing on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. He said the Russian government, at the direction of President Vladimir Putin, conducted cyberattacks to influence the presidential election. He also told committee members the Obama administration did not reveal Russian meddling out of fears of revealing too much about U.S. intelligence gathering and of being accused of taking sides in the race. Mr. Johnson said he was not aware of any evidence that votes were altered or suppressed through cyber intrusions. In addition, he discussed his rationale for designating U.S. election systems as critical infrastructure in early January 2017.
snot
(11,586 posts)L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Jun 23, 2017
Rachel Maddow reviews some of the highlights of a lengthy, eye-opening report from The Washington Post about the reaction of the Obama administration to the news that Vladimir Putin was directing a cyberattack on the U.S. election.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)Jun 23, 2017
Chris Hayes, Greg Miller and Malcolm Nance discuss the Washington Post report that details the Russian interference in the 2016 election.
Buckeye_Democrat
(15,511 posts)Absolutely!
BlueJac
(7,838 posts)The Democrats always play to nice, like they got their heads up their ass. It is time to show some "BALLS", excuse me! That is what is needed, no niceties, just get it on prove, to Democrats that your deserve their votes, we are all watching everyone in this process of evilness!!. Get it done!!
