Would we be better off with ACA repeal with no replace?

[Buckeyeblue]

The replacement bill is a mess. The Rs are not good at coming up with new ideas. They are the party of no or "we can't." The conservative mindset does not lend itself to innovative problem solving. The conservative people I've worked with are great about following procedures and holding fast to long established policies. They are not the people you pull into a room to build something new.

Since we know their new idea on healthcare sucks, would it be better if they just repealed ACA and we went back to healthcare pre-ACA?

I can tell you pre-ACA, my premiums still went up each year, so we are not going to save money.

But if we had to choose, I think a straight repeal is better than this piece of shit legislation they are proposing.

Thoughts?

[MineralMan]

1. Nope. You might, but all of those people who are now covered

but who weren't before wouldn't be better off at all. In fact, they'd go back to no coverage at all. We don't want that, or shouldn't want that.

[still_one]

2. Exactly MM. A lot of people would be hurt

[MineralMan]

5. It's frustrating to see people only concerned about their own

coverage. That's one of the flaws that keeps us from getting what we need.

The "I've got mine" argument sucks. Every time it is used, it sucks.

[still_one]

7. well said

[Wellstone ruled]

26. So true so true.

Yup,got mine. F--- you.

[Wounded Bear]

3. That's what the Repubs WANTED to do...

By your screen name, I'll assume your location and ask you, would Ohio be better if they repealed the ACA, along with the Medicaid expansion that your state bought into?

The Dem bottom line has been that ANY bill with repeal in it as it's first/main function is a non-starter. That's as it should be.

[fescuerescue]

16. That seems like little harash

Not everyone follows politics 24x7.

I have to say, one of the under currents that I don't like on this talk board, is the ever present threat of exile to anyone who asks an uniformed question, or is suspected of being one of "them".

Hopefully the OP will stick around and learn something, instead of taking your advice and then voting for the other party.

[LOL Lib]

34. ...

[LexVegas]

6. Hell no. nt

[Buckeyeblue]

8. So my point is this...

If you have to pick your poison which is better? ACA is going to go. There is nothing the Dems can do about it. And I'm not suggesting that pre-ACA is better than ACA. What I'm saying is: Does the ACA replacement ultimately make things worse?

And as far as being a troll goes, read my prior comments. I'd wager that I'm more left on most issues than many of the people on here. I'm also pragmatic. Sometimes you have to solve problems within the structure you are given.

[asuhornets]

19. Why r u so sure the "ACA is going to go"? n/t

[procon]

30. I'd like to read an answer to that as well.

I really don't see the point of repeating these standard GOP doom and gloom tropes about Obamacare is dead. The only thing all these Republicans can show as proof that they aren't lying is that they are all parroting the same phrase from the same memo, so it must be true. Meanwhile, the CBC and other NGOs have reported that Obamacare is stable, needs some long known fixes, but it's nowhere near gasping its last breath.

[LOL Lib]

37. The current administration has made it clear.

They will allow the ACA to implode by withholding subsidies if at all possible. That is their threat and it's been widely reported. If you believe that Rs are as evil and vindictive as I do, you would likely expect them to follow through on that threat.

[stopbush]

9. Is this a serious question?

Of course the answer is a resounding "no!"

[MontanaMama]

10. Respectully, NO.

Repeal takes away pre-existing condition protections, lifetime caps return and insurance companies can charge astronomical premiums and deductibles for whatever the hell they want and/or deny coverage for no reason.

As a self employed family of 3, I've had to buy insurance on the individual market for 27 years. Shark infested waters to be sure. I've never been eligible for subsidies but the ACA protections are so important. Before the ACA, the deductible for anything orthopedically related for my husband was $21,000....because he'd had a previous hand surgery that we paid for out of pocket! Our regular per person deductible was $10,000 per person. I had to refinance my house twice to pay out of pocket costs for a tumor to be removed from my 8 year old son's head and have his left ear reconstructed. $35,000 one year and $30,000 the next because the reconstruction of his ear failed.

Self employed, self insured people do not get the same insurance choices on the open market as folks who get their insurance from their employers. Choices also differ widely from state to state. FYI - I was an insurance biller for a private medical practice for 22 years (no insurance provided at my job and my spouse is a small business owner). This is my wheelhouse. Our premiums went up before the ACA and they went up afterwards too, but again, the protections are vital and we should not let them go. My premium for our family of 3 is $1322 per month for a bronze plan with a $6000 per person deductible. The silver plan was $1602 and the gold plan is $2100 per month. There are only two companies in Montana offering plans on the individual market and the other company's plans cost more than the rates I cited.

Don't even get me going on this. I could write for hours. It IS my hot button. I'm pissed as hell about all of this.

[Buckeyeblue]

13. But my question isn't should ACA stay

My question is if it is going to go. And my guess is it will. Are we better off going backward than moving forward with something that will ultimately be worse?

[MontanaMama]

17. No.

We don't know that the ACA is going to go away for sure. Since we don't know why pull the rug out from under ourselves now? Why hold the knife for Ryan and McConnell so that they can more easily slit our throats. No. No. NO!

Senator Warren is now beginning to talk about single payer. Let's take that and run with it. Senator McCaskill is talking about a public option or at least allowing people to purchase the same plans as members of Congress. There are Dems who are moving forward. Senator Collins stated publicly that she is open to repairs on the ACA. Let's vocally support these people. We've got our foot in the door, let's seize this opportunity.

If we let the ACA slip away, people will die. It is that simple. Their blood will not be on my hands. Tell me WHEN were be better off going backwards?

Never.

[sprinkleeninow]

32. Hay now. We're not 'there' yet.

No to going back pre-ACA.
The Affordable Care Act was an improvement.

We got employer coverage still, but I have a heart for others that coverage was made available to. It is a 'good' thing.

I don't know how this issue will play out, but the goppers hit a snag. Hahah. Hopefully their fraudulent and corrupt ways will be their undoing.

[MontanaMama]

35. No, we're not there yet.

In my heart of hearts, I truly think we'll pull out of this. The longer it takes the GOpee to ram this through, the more folks are getting woke and wising up. Keep calling your reps. Keep talking to your neighbors. I do not miss an opportunity to talk about this issue with whoever will listen.

The MSM and politicians just love to harp about how "complicated this issue is." That is code for "this is too difficult for us to understand and to talk to you about in any meaningful fashion, so we'll just keep puking out our talking points. We don't want to mention that health care apparently hasn't been too difficult for every other industrialized nation on the planet to tackle. So, don 't worry your heads about this, here - watch another commercial for Cialis."

[sprinkleeninow]

38. What you said. Yeah-yasss!

[Stuart G]

14. Montana Mama...Thank You for your great post..on why ACA is important..

After reading those 3 paragraphs..it is clear that ACA works and is absolutely necessary..

[MontanaMama]

18. Thank you for reading

my message Stuart G. We have no choice but to move forward - together.

[LeftInTX]

25. Thank you so much for this post

Self employed, self insured was one of the main reasons for the ACA.

There needs to be more stories like yours out there.

I remember in February CNN had a townhall with Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders.

Some woman who owns a Fantastic Sam's franchise in Dallas. (hmmm same state as Ted) said that she couldn't afford insurance for her family because she has to pay for her employees' insurance. This felt like a plant.

What she was saying made no sense because just a small mishap, for example if one her kid's broke their legs, it would cost almost as much as their annual premiums.

[MontanaMama]

39. I watched that town hall!

I believe you are correct, the Fantastic Sam's woman was a plant (IMO). I can't be sure, but since my spouse and I own a small business and are quite familiar with group plans, individual plans and the ACA, her story did not ring true for me.

That said, for many small businesses, group plans can be very expensive depending on the age range of those employed at the business. Post ACA, insurance companies raise premiums based on age rather than pre-existing conditions etc. For example, my spouse and I are in our mid-fifties and our staff ages range from 24-32. Our 50+ ages raised the group rate enough that the plan was ridiculously high. To compensate, we broke up the group and had each employee purchase insurance through the market place. Our youngest employees were able to get gold plans utilizing a small subsidy. We pay them a monthly stipend that covers the entire cost of their premiums. A couple of our guys get insurance through their wives employers and we also pay them a monthly stipend to cover the cost of adding them to those group plans. Saving those additional dollars made it possible for us to begin a company matched 401K for each of them.

My spouse and I are not eligible for subsidies so we purchase our insurance on the open market. While the only available plans cost more than my mortgage, I find immense comfort in knowing that we are ensured per-existing conditions protections will not be subject to life time caps.

This was a ton of research and work to accomplish but I am committed to taking the best care of our employees as I possibly can. I work with these folks every day. They're family. They do their best at work when they aren't worried about losing everything if they get hurt or sick. We all win when our citizenry is healthy. Do you hear that repukes?? We all win...that means you too.

We need to build on what works with the ACA - there is so much good in it.

[ehrnst]

12. Millions would be thrown off Medicare, contraception copays could go to $30 again

They can't really repeal it without major damage, because millions are also getting their health care through the marketplaces, especially since small employers dropped providing insurance options to their employees so they could go on the marketplace.

It would like hitting the brakes in the middle of traffic, instead of parking, and taking another car.

[BumRushDaShow]

15. What?

Watch this -

Trailer -

Full thing -

[LuvLoogie]

20. Excuse me while I pop your trial balloon, tovarich.

[Iggo]

21. "But if we had to choose..."

If I had to choose, I'd choose people over money.

I'm not going to kill people to save a few hundred bucks a year.

[Tanuki]

22. The rate of uninsured dropped a full 40 % in veterans under age 65

in the first two years of the ACA. Maybe you'd like to ask them if they'd be "better off."

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/04/19/524751540/many-veterans-gained-health-care-through-the-affordable-care-act

"Almost half a million veterans gained health care coverage during the first two years of the Affordable Care Act, a report finds.

In the years leading up to the implementation of the ACA's major coverage provisions, from 2010 to 2013, nearly 1 million of the nation's approximately 22 million veterans didn't have health insurance. Almost half of all veterans are enrolled in the VA health system; others get health care through employers or Medicare. But some don't quality for those options, and others don't know that they have them.

Two years after the ACA's implementation, 429,000 veterans under the age of 65 gained coverage, which is a 40 percent drop in vets without insurance from 2013 to 2015. The vets were covered for the most part through Medicaid expansion, privately purchased plans and marketplace coverage, according to the report.
........
Veterans with the lowest incomes saw the greatest increase in coverage, especially in states that adopted Medicaid expansion. Vets with incomes up to 138 percent of the federal poverty level, or $16,394 a year for an individual, became eligible for Medicaid in expansion states, the report notes."....(more)

[pirateshipdude]

23. ACA is so much better for me, than prior. It actually pays claims that prior did not. Eom

[Orrex]

24. Sure, if you're part of the leisure class

But if you're an actual person, then you'd be fucked.

[Tatiana]

27. Politically, yes. In terms of human care and dignity, no.

Democrats aren't the only ones with pre-existing conditions and adult children who need health services. Republicans, like David Jolly, would come to realize their faulty thinking and would probably see Democrats as their only hope for survival (much like in 2008, the economy was in such dire straights, they decided to take a change on Barack Obama).

However, a full repeal will lead to thousands of deaths. I couldn't possibly justify willfully letting that many people lose their lives without a fight.

[Sunlei]

28. No. Insurance corps dumped anyone they wanted off insurance or refused to cover people slightly old

or slightly sick.

[LOL Lib]

29. Sorry you are being accused of being a RW troll

It is a knee jerk reaction by some here. It is a sad reaction and just gives the right another reason to call us names.

Having said that, repeal with no replace is not the answer. We have to find a way to meet the needs of everyone who needs healthcare. No person should have to choose between getting their prescriptions filled and paying their mortgage, or utility bill, or grocery bill... No one should have to cancel a scheduled MRI simply because they can't pay the upfront cost of $150. That same person should not have to choose between the test and paying to meet their basic needs. This happens frequently under our current system and it is light years ahead of no coverage at all.

I have mentioned it before. I have a close friend that was diagnosed with leukemia at age 31. She did absolutely nothing to cause the leukemia, but republicans would have us believe that she is responsible for getting sick. i could go on, but it's too depressing.

We have to make healthcare a right for EVERYONE!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

31. No

Even its crippled, Republican-sabotaged form, ACA is way better than what we had before, as well as what we're possibly heading to under Trumpcare. No further progress is going to be made IMHO unless we can preserve ACA and build upon it. Passing Trumpcare or even just repealing ACA is going to set us back lots.

[procon]

33. The OP needs to do more studying.

If you believe the Republican's healthcare version sucks, the pre Obamacare version wasn't much better. Its all for-profit, so there's your first clue the patients aren't going to do as well as the investors.

Sure, for those who had a cadillac policy it was somewhat better than the policy someone else bought from a broker, but everyone was paying a lot and they were still vulnerable to high fees as well being at risk of getting dumped when they need health insurance the most, like in the middle of chemotherapy or the day after a heart attack.

Yes, we may end up losing Obamacare, but let's not go belly up, wee-wee all over, and give in to the Republicans and let them get away with destroying it without a fight.

[brush]

36. Bullsh_t! The 23 million who got insurance under the ACA, you don't care about them?

[MontanaMama]

40. Buckeyeblue,

Please know that I'm not accusing you of being a RW troll. Clearly you can see by my posts on this thread that I have strong feelings on this issue AND I'm well-informed on the topic not because I want to be but out of shear necessity. I've had to learn through the school of hard knocks and as a result, I've made a promise to myself to share what I know so that maybe someone else might have an easier time navigating these shark infested waters.

I appreciate your question and your post.

[Fluke a Snooker]

41. Single Payer ONLY!!

Nothing short of single-payer...specifically, all costs borne by everyone, with EQUAL ACCESS to ALL medical services and procedures... will suffice. Otherwise you are NOT a progressive!!

[denbot]

42. Nyet Comrade.

[XRubicon]

43. Maybe we should repeal Medicaid

social security and the voting rights act. The republicans will just screw them up- we would be better off going back to whatever was before those laws- Right? If we had to choose...