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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGeorgia congressional election challenged
The Coalition for Good Governance is suing to have the recent Ossoff-Handel election overturned because of the electronic voting machines!
I would add the link, but I am electronically challenged. Washington Post.
We need 100% paper ballots nationwide.
Warpy
(111,124 posts)will need to be challenged. It's the only way we can get rid of them and have any hope of restoring integrity to the system.
I don't expect this result to be overturned. However, lawsuit after lawsuit over these machines might eventually get them junked because it will be too expensive to keep them.
leftieNanner
(15,058 posts)We have 100% vote by mail in Oregon and some of the best turnout in the country.
blue-wave
(4,343 posts)With only paper ballots, too often in the not too distant past, stuffing ballot boxes was very common. The electronic machines are easily hacked. Central mail-in ballot locations with poll watchers, from all ideologies and candidates, sounds like a very fair way to count the votes.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)extra month to register voters before the June special election. Yet, GOPers still got out the vote and won in a red district. The votes weren't tampered with and there have been no creditable reports of people being turned away from the voting stations. We lost, and will continue to do so if we think it's voting irregularities beating us.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Keep in mind that a secret ballot is something that must be maintained, that means that you can't have any identifying serial numbers on ballots linked to a voter without being willing to have elections officials at some point see how you voted if they wanted.
How easy would it be to counterfeit ballots and mail them in? What is to prevent that? If ballots are serial numbered then see my above, they are not really a secret ballot?
What if my ballot is stolen from my mailbox, filled out and mailed in by someone else? How is that prevented? It is easy to know when ballots are mailed and would be in boxes, I could go over voter rolls and find people who don't vote most of the time since what elections you cast ballots in are public record and swipe ballots from the people who wouldn't care if they got one or not and cast them myself.
If someone swipes my ballot and a request a replacement and both are submitted do both get counted? If not, how to they know what one is the real one- can you know without having identifiable information on the ballot or envelope that could be used by someone to see how I voted? What is to stop me from casting mine then saying it was lost and casting another if you can't tell?
What is to stop a right wing postal employee from trashing all the ballots he sees that come from minority neighborhoods? Just takes one GOPer with the post office to sort out all the ballots from mailboxes he picks up in black neighborhoods to disenfranchise hundreds of voters in a few minutes,
Who is guarding mailboxes where they are cast? An even moderately skilled their can pick a lock on a mailbox and steal contents faster and easier than anyone could phycally hack an electronic machine, and at less risk. You have no real security of a ballot sitting in a mailbox on the street.
All those are issues with absentee ballots now, sure, but absentee ballots are such a tiny portion of the vote it is hard to use those techniques and have an impact. When you start pushing 100% of the vote through the postal system that makes those techniques a lot easier to pull off and have a huge impact.
The idea that somehow paper ballots or mail in elections are secure or even more secure than any other means is fantasy. In many ways they are less secure.
leftieNanner
(15,058 posts)In order for your ballot to be counted, you are required to sign the back of the envelope. That envelope is then scanned to verify that this signature matches the one on your voter registration form. If it doesn't match, then the envelope is held aside. The ballot itself is in a secrecy envelope within. So all of the issues with someone stealing your ballot go away. There is an online resource that allows you to check that your ballot has been counted and if it has been set aside, you have an opportunity to clear up the problem.
The outer envelopes are discarded so that there is no way to see how you voted. Secrecy is maintained. Republicans hate it because it increases voter turnout.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)What is to stop theft of ballots from mailboxes to disenfranchise voters by trying to keep them from voting or make it more difficult by making them seek replacing ballots?
Lots of weaknesses in the system. To claim it is somehow more secure than anything else is naive.
leftieNanner
(15,058 posts)Is secure! We also have secure drop boxes available for people who don't have a stamp. These are available the two weeks before election day. They are manned and emptied frequently. I had doubts when we first moved here too, but it works!
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)The USPS has a loss rate for mail that while low if you think about mail is way to high to be tolerable for lost votes.
There is no secure chain of custody for regular USPS mail. When paper ballots are used in an election they require two people have eyes on them at all times to assure there is no tampering and no ballot box stuffing or other irregularities. The USPS has none of that.
You see stories every year of postal employees busted for trashing mail or storing it instead do delivering. And that is just the ones that get caught and get publicity. If is that easy for it to happen out of laziness then it's clear that the system is not secure and that someone with the intent of messing with the election could just as easily do that to ballots.
For USPS to be considered secure for transfer or evidence for something like a criminal investigation you have to use Express or Priority mail with tracking and require a signature on delivery. That's not going to happen with every ballot in the country.
MichMan
(11,865 posts)I disagree that every single one should be challenged
1) Makes it look like Democrats can't accept the results and are sore losers. Now if we also challenge the ones that we win, we might score some points for that
2) Too many constant challenges means that none of them will be taken seriously
Reminds me of a well known college here. According to many of their die hard fans, their football team never actually loses a game because they got outplayed. Every loss is blamed on bad calls by the referees and favoritism for the other side by the officials. Every single time....
Warpy
(111,124 posts)The Democratic Party has challenged none of the elections using these easily hacked machines, not even when the hacking was so clumsily done as to be obvious. They still haven't.
Please reread the article and realize this is being done by a watchdog group, not the DNC. This has to be done. The longer these machines are in service and being hacked, the less trustworthy the results are, destroying faith in the whole democratic system.
My own state acted quickly after the clumsy 2004 election results made it obvious the machines had been hacked and were not trustworthy. In 2005, we got 100% paper ballots.
MichMan
(11,865 posts)Disagreeing that every single one should be challenged every single time for the reasons stated
mythology
(9,527 posts)Just because you call something so clumsily done as to be obvious doesn't actually mean you're right.
quakerboy
(13,915 posts)Somehow I doubt that Republicans mind spending as many taxpayer dollars as it takes to further their election subversion attempts, however.
Valhallakey
(70 posts)Shows a nice consistent view. That should be adopted by the Democratic Party today.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)copy the URL from your browser's address bar, then paste it into your post. Nothin' fancy at all. The buttons that make it fancy don't seem to be working, so copy and paste is the rule of the day.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)district, we did not despite a judge ordering an extra month to register voters after the first round of the special election, mail-in ballots and a month worth of early voting. But, hey, let's complain about the vote tabulation.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Or is this another "OMG we lost is must be that evil technology because it's impossible for us to lose unless it is hacked, we are so perfect we must have won the real count, I don't trust this gee-wiz wizbang computations machinery because I don't understand how technology works so whenever the result is one I don't like its bad, I am going to make Democrats look like fools by screaming about voting machine fraud or vote hacking without being able to actually articulate an intelligent theory demonstrating how it was done or proof it was done but just scream that it happened" type deal?
Amishman
(5,553 posts)5% swing would have to be the most brilliant criminal endeavor ever in order to not have glaring statistical anomalies.