It's official. Hillary Clinton was NOT running against Donald Trump.

[Foamfollower]

Hillary Clinton was forced to run against the concerted effort and power of every intelligence agency under the control of the Russian Government.

And she damn near won any way.

I don't EVER want to hear the bullshit nonsense that she wasn't a good candidate. She was a brilliant candidate. Nobody could have won under those conditions and nobody else would have come as close to winning.

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. Exactly! n/t

[BeyondGeography]

2. I'm for walking and chewing gum at the same time

Yes, she was jobbed. Yes, she made some pretty bad mistakes. One fact doesn't eliminate the other.

[ehrnst]

10. No one is "eliminating that she made mistakes."

Stating the obvious fact that she she soundly won the popular vote, despite the facts of statistical improbability of a party holding the WH for more than 8 consecutive years, 25 years of false smears by the GOP, and the efforts of the Kremlin does not = saying that she didn't make mistakes.

Is that clearer?

[DK504]

24. Remember when everyone laughed when she said; 'massive

right wing conspiracy'?

All campaigns make mistakes, but to say she ran her campaign into the ground rankles.... How is a campaign supposed to deal with political issues and an enemy governemnt going after all at the same time. Bernie got her to move to a bit m ore to the left, but she still was penalized for not being Bernie. Those that didn't vote or cast protest votes were one of the major downfalls in her loss. Depsite the fact Russia got into our voting machines, she still got more votes.

She was Sisyphus and she is still being raked over the coals by democrats.

[BeyondGeography]

25. The OP would apparently have the assessment stop at "she was a brilliant candidate"

That's what I was responding to. Your points are well taken.

[pirateshipdude]

27. She was a brilliant candidate and up against a lot of forces, from all directions.

Clinton ran a tight, well run, organized campaign. She left very little for the other side to use against her. Perfect? When have we ever demanded perfect and what in the world would that even look like?

Never had we had the need to address our candidates that have run such a brilliant campaign, faced with all kinds of manners as Clinton, repeat constantly that she and her campaigned was deeply flawed. Demanded she and every person that talks about the events repeated acknowledge and apologize for her huge errors, of insignificance. Seeing what Clinton faced.

I find all this ridiculous.

[ehrnst]

32. Even 'brilliant" people make mistakes. She is damned as "weak" because she wasn't

"the RIGHT woman," in other words, not the first choice of the white straight men in the party. Any normal mistake was blown way bigger than would be for a male candidate.

[BeyondGeography]

33. Yeah, sure, ok

Thanks, as always, for the laughs.

[ehrnst]

34. What do you find laughable? (nt)

[ehrnst]

29. Yep, she turned out to be correct about the "massive right wing conspiracy"

and Russia.

[StevieM]

35. She also had some pretty serious successes, like provoking Donald Trump at all three debates

and getting him to look crazy.

A lot of her so-called mistakes are just the media piling on. Some are pure fiction.

Had the election taken place 11 days earlier she would have won decisively. The illegitimate FBI letter to Chaffetz changed all that.

[BeyondGeography]

38. She's a superb debater; Obama debated her 20 times and the best he could do was draw

every now and then. But the blue wall crumbled on her watch and without relitigating the campaign she bears a lot of responsibility for that.

[pirateshipdude]

41. Facts argue otherwise. Eom

[ehrnst]

49. "The Blue wall crumbled on her watch"

Not sure what you mean by that. Can you clarify?

[StevieM]

54. I disagree. The FBI obliterated her reputation with their illegitimate and dishonest tactics.

No candidate could have survived what they did to her.

To what ever extent it was unique to her it was about the way that they could attribute all sorts of imaginary power to a former first lady.

I don't believe our loss had anything to do with campaign strategy or the issues.

[LanternWaste]

57. So you keep alleging sans any objective evidence.

"she bears a lot of responsibility for that..."

So you keep alleging sans any objective evidence. No doubt, a great bias prevents you from doing so, though I'm certain your rationalize will be anything but...

[YCHDT]

68. Bushing strawman ... She didn't have to be perfect to win

[jmg257]

3. ALL those stooges duped by the Ruskies

Into voting for someone else, most for such a disaster as trump.

Foolish.

[ehrnst]

11. Yep. It appears only Hillary supporters weren't duped. (nt)

[jmg257]

28. Which sort of makes sense. Those on the fence had just more reasons to go elsewhere.

Fake news, Comey BS, etc. confirmed their doubts?

[ehrnst]

30. Lots of bot posts being shared from Left wing social media

fed a lot of misogyny.

[Brainstormy]

4. I believe she DID win. Literally as well as figuratively.

time will tell.

[annabanana]

5. Thank you!. . . .n/t

[lib-ruhl]

6. Let's not forget

the ones who couldn't be bothered with voting because they thought it wouldn't matter or make a difference. If them fuckers aren't out in full force in 2018 and 2020 with whats going on now, then I don't know what will.

[democratisphere]

7. HRC won. drumpf continues and will ultimately lose everything.

[Hoyt]

8. Had it not been for Comey, she would have won -- under Electoral College rules -- anyway.

[NRaleighLiberal]

9. she did win. election stolen.

[FailureToCommunicate]

12. She WON by over 3 MILLION votes. Only our slave era EC system gave a different outcome

[retrowire]

13. And also, let's stop blaming Bernie as well.

He did what a competitor should do. He gave her competition. She still came out on top so, yeah.

[NurseJackie]

14. Nobody is doing that.

[Amimnoch]

16. Not totally true. I do.

I generally don't post about it but I do. Not ALL blame, as there's other factors that played into it, but as close as it was, if any of the factors (of which this was one) that played into it were removed, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

[NurseJackie]

19. Contributed.

[Amimnoch]

23. fair 'nuff.

[NurseJackie]

31. :-)

[NastyRiffraff]

37. Strange, but nobody on this thread mentioned Bernie

Except, of course you. Who the hell CARES about Sanders?

[retrowire]

40. Me. I do. It's why I mentioned him.

Just a statement. If you carry it into something further that's your own actions. It was just my opinion outright. Hillary won. Bernie not to blame. Problem?

[NastyRiffraff]

42. But why bring it up when the thread isn't about him, at all?

There are plenty of threads honoring Bernie around, after all.

[retrowire]

44. Because I feel that he is relevant.

There's a list of things people blame for her loss. Bernie is often on that list when he shouldn't be.

Problem? You honestly seem triggered at the mention of his name in an opinion that wholeheartedly agrees with the OP. There is no conflict in this opinion of mine.

Check your feelings.

[NastyRiffraff]

46. LOL!

[retrowire]

50. Disrespectful.

That's expected. What a waste of time it is to be indirectly accused of ulterior motives and asked for an explanation only to be laughed at when you point out the paranoia is a bit too herky jerky.

I'd expect to be among adults in this forum.

[NastyRiffraff]

55. LOL!

[retrowire]

56. Children love digging holes, I get it. Nt

[NastyRiffraff]

63. Yawwwn

[retrowire]

64. They get tired too! Lol nt

[Petrushka]

48. Once upon a time, there were gossipy attempts to connect Bernie to the Russians . . .

. . . by bringing up his honeymoon in Russia and by making a big to-do about Bernie's campaign manager being of Russian origin.
Why, I wondered at that time, were fingers being pointed at Russia?

When some people went so far as to suggest that Russian trolls were posting messages on DU, my reaction was, "Oh, for God's sake, what next? Unbelievable! "

Anyway . . .

In my opinion, Bernie wasn't to blame for anything but running a good campaign against a better campaigner.

[retrowire]

51. Russian informants are real.

Most of them moved over to JPR. I feel bad for the innocent genuines that got mixed up in that.

I agree with your opinion, as it is the same as my own.

[Petrushka]

53. JPR? I've seen DUers refer to "JPR" but . . .

. . . I was never curious enough to look into that place---wherever or whatever it is. Besides: At my advanced age and poor eyesight, I'm trying to spend less time staring into the screen glare of this contraption in order to read any more bullshit than necessary . . . if you know what I mean.

[beam me up scottie]

61. They're actually still at it.

Not here but you can find Republican trolls on Twitter and Facebook who still refer to Bernie as a communist, bring up his time in a kibbutz and claim he's a Russian agent. The dog whistles about his loyalty to the United States are still being blown frequently in other places.

And I completely agree with your last sentence. Imo Bernie made Hillary a better candidate and they worked well together after the primaries were over.

[Petrushka]

67. Sad to say . . . but . . . some old Democrat "friends" on Facebook . . .

. . . never stopped blowing those same dog whistles since the primary season!

[Maven]

59. Bernie isn't blameless either.

He bears some of the responsibility for how this went down. I know you don't like to acknowledge that, but it's the truth. If we're saying that Hillary made mistakes, let's also admit that her opposition made mistakes too.

[retrowire]

60. Well I didn't say he didn't do anything

After all, he was competing.

Outside of competing, what did he do? I'm open to it.

[Maven]

65. I can't get into it, because that would be refighting the primaries

But suffice it to say that if you frame everything he did as "competing", then you could use that to justify pretty much anything. There's a bigger picture than that, and he lost track of it. That's about as far as I'll go.

[retrowire]

66. Plz PM me then. Nt

[oasis]

15. No regrets. Hillary didn't fail, America did. nt

[mountain grammy]

17. She did win.. 3 million votes

plus all those not counted.

[secondwind]

18. She DID win... it was stolen n/t

[Orrex]

20. And 62 million idiot racist fuckheads voted for Russia.

[Gothmog]

21. Russia and Putin were the real opponents

[Mrs. Overall]

22. Absolutely!

[DFW]

26. She won the election. She lost the counting.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."

[StevieM]

36. I agree that she was a great candidate. The post-election analysis is nonsense.

But let's not forget the damage that the partisan FBI caused. Comey had no right to send that ridiculous letter to Jason Chaffetz.

[bora13]

39. a lesson in crime

when you hear someone (erroneously) accuse
another of one devious scheme after another,
the accusers should be looked at in-depth as well.

[mcar]

43. +1000!

[niyad]

45. EXACTLY!

[Orsino]

47. Trump ran against a splatterpunk caricature of Hillary Clinton. n/t

[onecaliberal]

52. Clinton won by more than 3 million votes.

She SHOULD be sitting in the oval right now, not that orange piece of maggot shit.

[lunamagica]

58. I agree with you except when you said she nearly won. She won. It was stolen

[triron]

62. And against most of the MSM

[YCHDT]

69. +1