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Wed Jul 12, 2017, 08:50 PM

We now know exactly what happened. NSA will have the tapes.

Last edited Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Chris Hayes detailed the emails between Jr. and Goldstone that requested a contact to get information. Goldstone finds Emin who is on stage but will call after he finishes his show. An hour later Jr. confirms the call took place with a thank you note back to Goldstone.

Following up on the phone call Goldstone details that they will send the Russian attorney in response to JRs request for help.

Phone records will exist but more importantly this phone call is recorded and sitting in the NSA cloud so that they can recall it once they know what call to look for.

Four hours later Trump boasts to a crowd that he expects to get some very damaging information on Secretary Clinton.

We now have a very clear idea of what exactly happened. The video shows Trump and Goldstone in active conversation when they met in Las Vegas a couple of years before. It is clear that Trump tasked Junior with contacting Goldstone to get the Clinton emails which the Russians had. A confirmed phone call initiated by Jr sets up the meeting. The Russians got the compromising position on the Trumps but probably told them that they couldn't pass the original source material directly to the campaign because it would be too easily traced by the CIA/NSA.

The Russians tell the Trump campaign that they will release it through Wikileaks so that they can maintain deniability. Trump gets impatient and actually makes a public plea "if the Russians have the 30,000 emails please release it". In order to show that the Trump administration will deliver on promises to relax sanctions Manafort pushes through a Ukranian plank that is soft on Russia at the convention. This is an important "offer of proof" by Trump to signal to the Russians that he understands what they want and will be able to deliver the product.

Trump wants to follow up on his quid pro quo but knows that the CIA/NSA will be able to pick off his communication and asks Jared to meet with Russian Ambassador and set up a secret back door channel so that they can carry out their "Sanction relief for contracts in Russian energy development" plan that will bring them the billions that have evaded him.

Trump sees Comey closing in on the above and fires him.

Many elements of this will be easily confirmed with telephone records and with NSA captured conversations.

Trump complained about the "cloud" over his administration. A lot of the cloud has dissipated and we can now see how the dots were connected. In this case the "cover up" won't be nearly as bad as what they almost got away with.

Updated with the emails from June 6th

6 June 2016
Goldstone to Trump Jr

Let me know when you are free to talk with Emin by phone about this Hillary info – you had mentioned early this week so wanted to try to schedule a time and day. Best to you and your family.

Trump Jr to Goldstone

Rob could we speak now?


Goldstone to Trump Jr

Let me track him down in Moscow. What number he could call?

Trump Jr to Goldstone

My cell.

Goldstone to Trump Jr

He’s on stage in Moscow but should be off within 20 minutes so I am sure can call.

Trump Jr to Goldstone (about one hour later)

Rob thanks for the help.

7 June 2016


Goldstone to Trump Jr

Hope all is well. Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and the Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday. I believe you are aware of the meeting – and so wondered if 3pm or later on Thursday works for you? I assume it would be at your office.


Full text of all emails here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/11/donald-trump-jr-emails-full-text-russia-rob-goldstone

This nothingburger has about 43,000 calories.

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply We now know exactly what happened. NSA will have the tapes. (Original post)
grantcart Jul 2017 OP
FM123 Jul 2017 #1
grantcart Jul 2017 #3
grantcart Jul 2017 #4
Justice Jul 2017 #2
marylandblue Jul 2017 #5
grantcart Jul 2017 #9
grantcart Jul 2017 #7
Egnever Jul 2017 #11
joshcryer Jul 2017 #14
Egnever Jul 2017 #27
joshcryer Jul 2017 #32
Egnever Jul 2017 #35
joshcryer Jul 2017 #38
Egnever Jul 2017 #42
joshcryer Jul 2017 #44
Egnever Jul 2017 #46
defacto7 Jul 2017 #39
joshcryer Jul 2017 #40
rickford66 Jul 2017 #52
grantcart Jul 2017 #15
joshcryer Jul 2017 #22
Egnever Jul 2017 #33
grantcart Jul 2017 #43
Egnever Jul 2017 #47
grantcart Jul 2017 #48
Egnever Jul 2017 #49
pnwmom Jul 2017 #29
joshcryer Jul 2017 #13
grantcart Jul 2017 #18
joshcryer Jul 2017 #21
grantcart Jul 2017 #25
DK504 Jul 2017 #6
grantcart Jul 2017 #8
Amaryllis Jul 2017 #17
grantcart Jul 2017 #19
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2017 #20
unblock Jul 2017 #10
grantcart Jul 2017 #16
alfredo Jul 2017 #34
Chemisse Jul 2017 #50
dalton99a Jul 2017 #12
Honeycombe8 Jul 2017 #23
OldRedneck Jul 2017 #24
SharonClark Jul 2017 #30
Barack_America Jul 2017 #31
grantcart Jul 2017 #37
Duppers Jul 2017 #26
Barack_America Jul 2017 #28
Hekate Jul 2017 #36
Leghorn21 Jul 2017 #41
Blue_Roses Jul 2017 #45
Pluvious Jul 2017 #51
Raster Jul 2017 #53
Mr.Bill Jul 2017 #54
FailureToCommunicate Jul 2017 #55

Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 08:57 PM

1. is this Rachel?

Seriously, I like your dot connecting. 👍

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Response to FM123 (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:06 PM

3. chris hayes

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Response to FM123 (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:08 PM

4. Rachel is now going over it

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 08:57 PM

2. Why would NSA be taping Goldstone or Eminent?

Just asking.

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Response to Justice (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:11 PM

5. They are known Russian agents, therefore NSA tapes them.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:24 PM

9. Since Junior initated the phone call they would need a warrant to tape that particular call


The way around it is to record it and park it in the cloud. When they have enough cause to listen to the phone conversation they can get the warrant and then listen to it.

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Response to Justice (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:14 PM

7. They wouldn't, they store into a cloud and retrieve it later


NSA spends very little of its resources taping and listening to phone calls in real time in the way that we see in the movies.

The record and store billions of phone calls into a cloud and when they want to listen to it get a warrant and pull the particular phone conversation out of the cloud and listen to it.

While they don't record every single phone call they would have recorded every single phone call between the US and Russia and even more importantly particular phone calls are "lighted up" for recording by triggering particular words. Names like 'Obama', 'Clinton' or 'Trump' would be automatically tagged.

They will need a warrant to pull it down but the chance that this conversation exists in the cloud is very high.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/07/dea-bulk-telephone-surveillance-operation/70808616/

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Response to grantcart (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:56 PM

11. I don't think there is any evidence they store call contents

 

Unless they have a warrant or perhaps if they are from a person they are investigating.

The amount of data that recording calls indiscriminately would produce would be prohibitive.

They do have logs of from and to. But I highly doubt they are recording contents of those calls unless it is part of an ongoing investigation. Again that data would add up far too quickly if done on a wholesale basis.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:11 PM

14. The Utah Data Center could trivially account for all international communication.

For a few years retention. And that's almost certain to be the case.

To hold all national communication for a week or would be easy, as well.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:56 PM

27. Would love to see something that says that

 

I find that claim pretty dubious.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:18 PM

32. Search for "Global Information Grid Architecture Vision"

They were seeking yottabyte storage levels. In 2007.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

Also see post #15.

Looks like my "few weeks retention" is more like 30 days.

They will never give us a real estimate of what they do. But they're doing it.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:41 PM

35. Following that link brings you to this

 

time. In January 2007, Bret Swanson of the Discovery Institute coined the term exaflood for a supposedly impending flood of exabytes that would cause the Internet's congestive collapse.[3][4] Nevertheless, the global Internet traffic has continued its exponential growth, undisturbed, and as of March 2010 it is estimated at 21 exabytes per month.[5]

That was 7 years ago. Assuming an equal growth curve it far surpasses the ability of even Utah to store .

Also this

The world's effective capacity to exchange information through two-way telecommunication networks was 0.281 exabytes of information in 1986, 0.471 in 1993, 2.2 in 2000, and 65 exabytes in 2007 (yet again, all such amounts listed are strictly working off the basis that the data was in an "optimally compressed" form)

Again far too much to effectively store forget about transferring to a storage facility.

I am highly skeptical of claims they can store all phone calls for a day forget about a month. They would be consuming a huge portion of the total capacity of the internet backbone just to accomplish it.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:48 PM

38. They're not storing Netflix.

Or... porn.

Telecom makes up a very small percentage of the global network: http://www.uvm.edu/pdodds/files/papers/others/2011/hilbert2011a.pdf

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:04 AM

42. Awesome link

 

Lots of great info in that link even though it is from 2007...ten years ago and at that time they estimated the telephone only portion to be 65 exobytes..... I haven't read enough of it to be sure if that was annually or monthly, however even if it is annually that is 5 exobytes a month ...ten years ago.


Not to mention you would have to transfer all that data to Utah..


Just seems unrealistic to believe they could pull it off. Maybe but I would be freaking amazed if they could.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #42)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:12 AM

44. But to be fair all they're doing is US.

And international communication itself is a very small portion of that.

And they probably don't care about most of it anyway, so it'd have a low priority retention policy.

But politicians? Prospective candidates? People who traveled abroad? Why not. It's a few thousand people at most. Just prioritize their records. Illegally.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #44)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:52 AM

46. Ok I would give you it is us only

 

Which does bring it down but to put things in perspective Google was estimated to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 exobytes in 2014... Google...they certainly have more storage than Utah.

I just can't see those numbers working.

That said I certainly agree person's of interest more than likely and given who the person was that jr was talking to I would not be at all surprised if she was one of those persons.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:49 PM

39. it's hard to visualize the proportions of the Utah

Data center unless you've seen it. A waterfall inside the building just for cooling the hardware... massive. I have no doubt about its capacity to collect that amount of information.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:51 PM

40. 1.5 million square feet

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #40)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:15 PM

52. It'll probably be filled up in a couple years.

I've seen similar scenarios with mass storage devices over time. Engineers, scientists and probably intelligence people just want to save everything. I personally probably have multiple copies of thousands of temp files sitting somewhere out there. You can only compress the data so far ... until we get quantum storage .... but then there's Plank's Constant.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:15 PM

15. The NSA practice of storing billions of calls has been well documented

That is what was the kerfuffle under Obama. They store and then wait for a warrant to listen.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/18681-nsa-whistleblower-binney-nsa-recording-80-of-u-s-phone-calls

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/18/291165247/report-nsa-can-record-store-phone-conversations-of-whole-countries

This was in 2011, their capacity would be much greater now as they continue to improve ways to shrink and store files:

"A senior manager for the program compares it to a time machine — one that can replay the voices from any call without requiring that a person be identified in advance for surveillance.

"The voice interception program, called MYSTIC, began in 2009. Its RETRO tool, short for 'retrospective retrieval,' and related projects reached full capacity against the first target nation in 2011. Planning documents two years later anticipated similar operations elsewhere.

"In the initial deployment, collection systems are recording 'every single' conversation nationwide, storing billions of them in a 30-day rolling buffer that clears the oldest calls as new ones arrive, according to a classified summary.

"The call buffer opens a door 'into the past,' the summary says, enabling users to 'retrieve audio of interest that was not tasked at the time of the original call.' Analysts listen to only a fraction of 1 percent of the calls, but the absolute numbers are high. Each month, they send millions of voice clippings, or "cuts," for processing and long-term storage."



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/07/dea-bulk-telephone-surveillance-operation/70808616/


WASHINGTON — The U.S. government started keeping secret records of Americans' international telephone calls nearly a decade before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, harvesting billions of calls in a program that provided a blueprint for the far broader National Security Agency surveillance that followed.


It is estimated to cost some thing under 100 million a year to store at the level that is publicly disclosed. The NSA budget is over $ 50 billion so if it was as high as $ 1 billion for storage that would only be 2% of their annual budget costs and with improvement of both hardware and software could be significantly lower than that.


https://gizmodo.com/how-much-it-costs-the-nsa-to-store-an-entire-countrys-p-1578666785

Now, remember the NSA is reportedly doing this in five different countries around the world, bringing our total ballpark just for phone call recording into the tens of millions of dollars.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:36 PM

22. Mind you they are also likely auto transcribing calls to text.

Which makes them infinitely more storeable. Stuff that would trigger red flags would be kept as audio and people would be able to go over it. Possibly not useable for this particular case, however. It depends on whether these lines of communication were international or not and whether they prioritize American politicians (which they should in any event).

Odds are the NSA does have the raw audio and a grand jury is at any moment about to hear some very damning shit.

And if anyone doubts this capability: TTS services for the deaf has been doing it for years now, and Watson has a nice little demo you can try right now which will transcribe whatever you speak into your microphone with 99.99% accuracy. This is not science fiction.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:33 PM

33. There is a big difference between call data and recording

 

The idea of transcribing and then storing seems much more probable but even then the resources required to transcribe every single call made would be enormous.

From one of your links


Telephone calls are often thought to be more ephemeral and less suited than text for processing, storage and search. And there are indications that the call-recording program has been hindered by the NSA’s limited capacity to store and transmit bulky voice files.


I am certainly not the computer expert in this sort of thing but I do understand data and the size of data. All voice calls would be an enormous amount of data even transcribed. And cloud storage does not equal unlimited it just means someone else provides the storage.

I certainly do not know enough to declare with certainty that it can't be done but I find it very difficult to believe.

You would have to have a point of capture which would not likely go directly through the Utah facility as it is In the center of the country which means that data would have to be transferred to the Utah facility which would be again an enormous amount of traffic and then once collected it would have to be stored which again if it was all calls going in and out of the US would be hundreds if not thousand of gigabytes of data a minute.

The articles you linked we're based on Snowden stuff a lot of which was wish list stuff.

One of the articles does mention that it was used on a foreign country but does not mention what country. It could be a tiny country...

Maybe they have figured out a way to pull off that amount of data collection again I am not knowledgeable enough to say that they can't.

I am highly skeptical however.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #33)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:07 AM

43. You started with the premise that you didn't think that NSA was storing many calls

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/18681-nsa-whistleblower-binney-nsa-recording-80-of-u-s-phone-calls

A whistleblower detailed the Stellar Wind operation and his basic revelations were confirmed by US Intel leaders

“At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US,” Binney told the London Guardian July 10. “This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores.”

The NSA hasn't denied various reports on their capacity. Here is a Washington Post




On December 4, 2013, The Washington Post released an internal NSA chart illustrating the extent of the agency's mass collection of mobile phone location records, which amounts to about five billion on a daily basis.[275] The records are stored in a huge database known as FASCIA, which received over 27 terabytes of location data within seven months.[333]

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Response to grantcart (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:59 AM

47. No that was not my premise at all

 

My premise was that I highly doubt they have voice recording of every call made into and out of the US for even 1 day forget about 30.

I have no doubt they have many many calls they do monitor and store but all calls just does not seem technically possible to me.

It is entirely possible that one of the folks or even quite a few of the folks the Cheeto family talked to were being monitored but I just.dont buy the any call way back machine.

Records the calls were made absolutely the conversation in all calls not so much.

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Response to Egnever (Reply #47)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 01:47 AM

48. Your exact comment "I don't think there is any evidence they store call contents"


quote

I don't think there is any evidence they store call contents

Unless they have a warrant or perhaps if they are from a person they are investigating.

The amount of data that recording calls indiscriminately would produce would be prohibitive.

They do have logs of from and to. But I highly doubt they are recording contents of those calls unless it is part of an ongoing investigation. Again that data would add up far too quickly if done on a wholesale basis.
unquote

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Response to grantcart (Reply #48)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 02:28 AM

49. Right

 

In response to this

_-----------&&-----------
While they don't record every single phone call they would have recorded every single phone call between the US and Russia and even more importantly particular phone calls are "lighted up" for recording by triggering particular words. Names like 'Obama', 'Clinton' or 'Trump' would be automatically tagged.

------------------

They would have recorded every call between the US and Russia

Is what you said.

I am saying I doubt that. Some of them for sure.. every call I doubt that.

I just don't think it is technically possible. The amount of data required even just for all telecommunication between us and Russia is just prohibitive.

Again maybe I am wrong but based on my understanding of data and several of the articles posted on this thread I just don't buy it. Again records of all calls made I don't doubt for a second..the conversations of all of those calls just does not seem plausable at all certainly not for 30 days and beyond that it just becomes increasingly unlikely.

Three years ago Google's total storage was estimated at 10 exobytes, Google has more storage than the government for sure and I would be amazed if it wasn't many times more including Utah. Ten years ago the world's estimated data in voice calls was 65 exobytes. That was the same year the iPhone was released telecommunication traffic has exploded since then.

I just don't think recording the conversations of all calls from and to any first world country is plausable it is just too much data both to store and to transfer to that storage. That is the entirety of my argument.



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Response to grantcart (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:09 PM

29. I want to believe this but the usatoday article says the practice has been discontinued. n/t

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Response to Justice (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:09 PM

13. The NSA records everything. Everything.

That was the big hub hub about Snowden's revelations (which people seemed to shrug off as nothing thanks to Greenwald making it a clickbait thing as opposed to something very real we should be concerned about; indeed, the aftermath of Greenwald's profit grab was that the laws were strengthened).

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:23 PM

18. It doesn't bother me because I know how hard it is to get a Federal warrant


But we should be very worried about how standards for warrants are maintained in the future.

Ultimately oversight has to rest to with elected representatives and we have one party that has given up the will to govern.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:30 PM

21. I would still like "Ending Secret Laws Act" to pass.

It would be nice to get a heavily redacted bit of information about why a given warrant was given.

"This guy wanted to blow stuff up."

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:56 PM

25. I have two clients that full time job is to apply for warrants for DHS


if they get a tip that a cartel has a connection in the US and they want to tap the phone this is the path it has to follow

1) Agent Applies for warrant, has to be approved by Customs and Border Protection Federal attorney in that sector

2) Goes to State Federal Attorney for approval

3) Goes to DHS headquarters for Senior Counsel

4) Goes to Attorney General's office

5) Goes to Customs and Border Patrol Counsel General

6) Returned to State Federal Attorney with any amendments

7) Returned to local Customs and Border Patrol federal attorney to submit to the court.

The reason that federal warrants get approved at such a high rate is that at least 7 different highly screened federal prosecutors see it before it goes to the court and they don't like to be criticized for sub standard work so they are very careful about submissions.

Once the wire tap is approved there is a time limit, something like 30 seconds, that the officers can listen to and then have to stop the recording if elements directly related to the warrant are talked about. There are two agents listening and a compliance officer from another agency to observe and make sure the rules are followed.

After another time period (I think it is 5 minutes) they can listen in again for another 30 seconds.

There is a proof, in my humble opinion, that the system is working well and has lots of internal checks and balances and that is under the FISA system there hasn't been a single case of abuse that has been reported. Snowden liked to talk about all of the things that could have happened but couldn't identify a single person who was subjected to arbitrary and unreasonable abuse.

With Trump's election I worry, however, that even the best placed systems can be undermined and you simply have to trust on the professionalism of the career people who have their hands on the buttons.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:13 PM

6. These traitors have been as subtle as a hammer to the head.

How is it taking so long? Every day it's a new layer of illegality and yet there are no indictments....WTH.

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Response to DK504 (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:15 PM

8. Federal Prosecutors don't care about time frame. They only care about getting the biggest fish

with a 100% conviction rate.

This is their Super Bowl and they are not going to be rushed.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:23 PM

17. Yep. THey want to get all the tentacles on the malignancy.

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Response to Amaryllis (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:25 PM

19. In baseball terms they never bunt but go for the fences with the bases loaded every time.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:30 PM

20. "this is their superbowl" ??? Glad you know that ! So glad u are here. !!!

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:49 PM

10. somewhere in this story there's a 400-pound hacker

one aspect of your dot-connection i like is that i've always had a sense that these "random" rather oddly-specific statements he makes in his speeches and such are not products of a fertile imagination. he's drawing from real things he heard elsewhere, other conversations.

so, yeah, when he asked russia for the 30,000 emails, this wasn't some random pining to anyone who may or may not have hacked and obtained these emails. it was a rather specific statement, one that surely had some relevance to a conversation the public wasn't entirely aware of at the time.


similarly, that reference he made to a 400-pound hacked was oddly specific. i rather suspect, again, not the product of a vivid imagination. he's just not that creative. we have yet to uncover it, but somewhere in this story, there's a 400-pound hacker that benedict donald has seen and is aware of his hacking and has in fact happily availed himself of the fruits of such hacking.

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Response to unblock (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:21 PM

16. Maybe he was picturing Goldstone

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Response to grantcart (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:35 PM

34. Central casting? We need a stereotypical mobster, the Sleazier the better.

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Response to unblock (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 11:37 AM

50. He was probably just repeating something that he heard,

As people around him brainstormed stupid excuses.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:05 PM

12. Kick.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:47 PM

23. Trump has gotten away with all this. Even with all this out in the open..he's clear & free so far.

I don't see Congress acting.

Trump is in the process of getting his boy confirmed as the FBI Director. Looks like he will be confirmed, as Senators fawn over the nominee and fall in line to do what Trump wants. Even some Democrats.

Even some Democrats think the Director nominee should be fine. It's clear to me that he will be a lackey and will not pursue any Russian connection. He can't. Part of his income comes from the Russian connections he has, as part owner of a huge law firm with an office in Moscow and big Russian clients.

How is this happening? How is it that people continue not to see what's in front of their eyes? A naive belief that this couldn't be happening, so convince themselves that what they see doesn't mean what they think it means?

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:56 PM

24. Trump has pissed off the wrong people

 

The recent articles about US intelligence hearing Russian officials talking about interfering with the US election are important in another respect, beyond the content of the articles.

I'm an old soldier, having served 28 years in the Army -- several years in the infantry, including tours in Vietnam. Because my physical performance was limited by wounds, I transferred to the Military Intelligence branch and served several interesting tours in which I was involved in both collecting and analyzing intelligence from human sources, signals intelligence, and imagery intell.

The details of what we know and how we know it are some of the most highly protected national secrets. Yet, now, someone is leaking to several reporters the content of highly-sensitive intelligence that was collected by our most secret operations.

These leaks are coming either from: (1) inside the intelligence agencies who collect the information; or, (2) from either Senate, House, or FBI investigators (or all three). Regardless, the people who are leaking these reports most likely are intell professionals who are aware of the gravity of revealing sensitive operations.

Remember all those times Trump slammed the intelligence agencies? Remember all those times he told us he didn't need to listen to intell briefings because he "knows more than the generals." Remember that time Trump went to the CIA, stood in front of the wall covered in stars, each of which represents a CIA officer who died in the line of duty, and strutted around, bragging about his election victory? Remember all that? Well, folks, let me tell you: People in the intell community remember.

Trump has pissed off the wrong people. He has pissed off the people who understand the threat to the US from Russia. He has pissed off the people who understand that Trump is the real threat. He has demonstrated that he has no intention of retaining America's leadership role in the world.

And now it's time for the professionals to protect this nation, as they are sworn to do.

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Response to OldRedneck (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:10 PM

30. Hope so.

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Response to OldRedneck (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:18 PM

31. It amuses me that these bombshells come out...

...each and every time he is congratulating himself for a "win".

I wonder, though, when the cat will finally tire of playing with this obnoxious orange mouse and just finish it?

Do you have any thoughts on that? Is this just the intel community getting its lashes in while Mueller does his work?

It seems that this is all a deliberate unfolding of events, but I'm having a hard time anticipating what comes next.

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Response to OldRedneck (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:45 PM

37. Good points. He not only pissed off the IC but also the press


These two are usually working against each other and now they helping each other.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:56 PM

26. K & R

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:06 PM

28. One also wonders, when Ms. Veselnitskaya was "detained for hours" at Heathrow...

....was she separated from her phone during that time?

I suspect she was.

I would find it likely that some government out there (ours, brits) has a recording of the meeting itself.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:42 PM

36. KnR

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Wed Jul 12, 2017, 11:56 PM

41. Superior post, grantcart!! Great bunch of sharp/knowledgable DU responses, too! Thanks, all!! n/t

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:38 AM

45. Great post!

Very informative and helpful at seeing how this is all connected. It feels surreal and keeps me feeling like I'm an extra in a Mission Impossible movie.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:12 PM

51. This also puts into context Benedict Donald's bragging to the...

...Russians visiting the Oval Office how well he's handling things on his end, by disposing of "that nut job Comey."

Demonstrating that he's just as capable and in control as his idol Pappa Putin. Har har

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 12:32 PM

53. Excellent post, grantcart!!!

And thank all of the deities for the exemplary investigative work and reporting by the MSNBC crew: Chris Hayes, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, Joy Reid, Ari Melber and their staffs.

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 02:31 PM

54. How about this scenario -

Right now Putin calls Trump and says "We have video and audio recordings of the meeting between your son and our lawyer. If you don't want the world to see and hear them, this is what we want you to do for us..."

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Response to grantcart (Original post)

Thu Jul 13, 2017, 02:52 PM

55. Great summary time line. And MSNBC has used a LOT of print journalist's work lately, with

plenty of attribution, and often having the reporters on the shows to comment.

It gives one a glimmer of hope for our wretched situation.

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