Santorum brought their dead baby back home for the kids to meet

[Ichingcarpenter]

Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum running for president (Iowa is nice the time of year.), former Bush adviser Mark McKinnon is scared by the thought of such a possibility.

“Santorum represents, in my view, much of what is wrong the in the Republican Party. While I disagree with him on some fundamental issues, I am much more concerned with his lack of character.”

And then there is this little known tidbit: “I’m a pretty tolerant guy, but beyond his ideology, some of Santorum’s behavior is just a little bizarre. For example, Santorum has six children. In 1996, he had son born prematurely who lived for only two hours. He and wife brought the child home and introduced the dead infant to the rest of their children as ‘your brother Gabriel’ and slept with the body overnight.”

Indeed, the Washington Post reported this in 2005.

Upon their son’s death, Rick and Karen Santorum opted not to bring his body to a funeral home. Instead, they bundled him in a blanket and drove him to Karen’s parents’ home in Pittsburgh. There, they spent several hours kissing and cuddling Gabriel with his three siblings, ages 6, 4 and 1 1/2. They took photos, sang lullabies in his ear and held a private Mass.

http://radio.foxnews.com/2009/08/13/rick-santorum-took-dead-baby-home-to-meet-family/


...............WTF?

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. I can't be the only one who thinks this is sick

The last time someone posted this story here there were several DUers who defended his right to do this.

I think it's child abuse. His oldest was SIX?!?!

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. knowing me ... You'd think I posted another Onion story

I didn't know that fact..

That's just sick....'Oh remember when Dad brought home our dead brother at an impressional age and forced us to whisper in his ear and sing songs?'' Said one his kids after they grow up.


their kids are gonna need some therapy if not now but later

[Brickbat]

2. I have trouble judging what people do in their grief. This is extreme, IMO, but many people dress,

wash, hold, photograph, name, hug, and celebrate their stillborn children.

[Ed Suspicious]

6. I agree. There are many things to criticize Santorum over, but

I think the expression of grief over a loss should not be it. I had a friend who photographed their stillborn and had it out, not exactly on display, but definitely not neatly tucked away. This family experienced a profound sense of lose when she delivered. I can't fault them for that no matter how odd I find the expression to be.

Humanity. Liberals. Let's not become the monsters they frame us to be.

[JohnnyLib2]

12. Agreed.

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. Fuck that Republican

As an educator and a master's degree in special education with moderate to severe needs , his so called 'stunt' was not good for his children.

Fucking Republicans.

[dionysus]

46. not even with your tools. no thanks.

[waddirum]

22. I think this story is definitely relevant for choosing a President

The American citizenry have every right to judge Sen. Santorum (or any other candidate) based on these personal anecdotes. Same thing with the story of Romney's sick dog shitting on the roof of the car. These are stories that the candidates put out there by their own volition. They chose to share these anecdotes.

Being creeped out by this story, and concluding that Sen. Santorum as unfit for the Presidency, does not make us "monsters".

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. +1

[vaberella]

7. But this...is the body. n/t

[Brickbat]

8. Yeah, that's what I was talking about with the washing and the hugging.

The body.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Which is fine until they involve their children

Kiss that dead baby all you want but don't force a 6 year old to do this.

That is SICK.

[Brickbat]

16. I don't think they forced them, do you?

Hard to tell.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Yes they did

The oldest was 6. A 6 year old isn't even capable of saying "No, I'd rather not kiss that dead baby."

[Brickbat]

18. ROFLMAO.

[Ms. Toad]

75. I have been present with a number of families grieving the perinatal loss of a child

and many of those families included children that young. I volunteer as a photographer and digital retouch artist for the organization which took the photos of the Duggar's stillborn child. I have experienced directly how healing both that time with a lost child and photos like the ones the Duggars (and presumably the Santorum's) had taken are. If it was my child, I would not choose to publish the photos on the internet - but I also would not invite the world into my home for a reality TV show.

But back to this particular issue. I have yet to see any of those children expressing anything other than sadness or curiosity, or parents doing more than asking if a child wants to touch or hold their sibling - and I have seen many examine tiny hands, feet, or facial features without prompting. At six, a child knows that another baby was joining the family and having the child just vanish (especially with the rest of the family being so sad) is very scary. Spending some time with the child provides the same transition for children it does for adults. Having pictures of the child with his or her sibling can also be very comforting later on, once the memories fade of how excited that child was to welcome a sibling into the family - how much love that child felt for his or her sibling. Some siblings feel guilty at the loss, and having photos which document the affection can help put things back into perspective.

Certainly, if being around the sibling's body was forced I would agree with you. No one, regardless of age, should be forced to engage in physical affection with a relative (living or dead) - but just because the child is 6 doesn't make the contact forced.

I am no fan of Santorum, but this is not an area in which I take issue with his actions. Each family needs to be able to grieve in ways that are meaningful to it - and actually grieving is a lot more healthy that the "pretend it never happened" attitude that used to prevail when there was a perinatal loss.

[petronius]

25. I agree as well. While I don't think I'd do what the Santorums did in that situation,

I'm not going to criticize how they handled their grief. And there's nothing here to suggest they did anything to traumatize or discomfit their other children...

[RZM]

44. I've seen this happen more than once in my own family and with close friends of the family

A member of my immediate family went through two miscarriages in a short period of time. It was really traumatizing for them. Friends of mine lost their newborn son over 20 years ago and IMO they've never quite recovered from it. I don't think they ever will. I think it's a kind of pain that is difficult to understand unless you go through it yourself (which I haven't).

I don't think I would do what the Santorums did. But given what I've seen, I honestly cannot judge them for this. I have no problem judging Rick on his politics, but I think this is a private family matter that is neither here nor there for me.

[Adsos Letter]

74. +1

Says it for me.

[Control-Z]

78. They shared it with the world

so it no longer is that private family matter you speak of.

And because they made it public it is something that I and probably most people would judge Santorum's character on. I find it offensive that he involved the other children to such an extreme degree. I'm sure there are people who will love him all the more for it, though.

[ecstatic]

89. True, but I'm wondering if he traumatized his other kids?

It's one thing for adults to grieve... but I don't know if it was appropriate to expose such young children to something like that.

[ananda]

3. Hmm. I wonder why he didn't have his wife arrested...

... for having a miscarriage/abortion.

Has he spoken out yet for all the draconian laws being
enacted against women these days?

[RZM]

45. I've never heard of any bill or law that proposed to punish women for having a miscarriage

If such a thing has ever existed, I certainly haven't heard about it.

[jmowreader]

69. Actually, they induced labor

http://oursilverribbon.org/blog/?p=188

The fetus had a defect in its urinary tract that, if not corrected, was going to kill him and take Mrs. Santorum with him. Apparently it's possible sometimes to surgically correct this, so they tried that. To do the operation they have to cut into the womb. This caused a massive infection in Mrs. Santorum that, if not cured, would have killed her and the fetus. They put her on IV antibiotics and induced labor--something Mrs. Santorum did not want to happen, as she knew it was an abortion. Anyway, they did the delivery and, two hours later, the baby died. (Once it is born, and this one was, it is a baby.)

That doesn't change the fact that the "ban abortion under all circumstances" stance Frothy Rick advocates now would have left him a widower with (four?) motherless children.

[cyglet]

73. and he didn't elect to not go through with it

which makes him a hypocrite (like usual).

[jmowreader]

82. He is a hypocrite, you're right there

When the choices are:

(1) Dead fetus plus dead mother, which would have happened if they didn't induce labor

or

(2) Dead fetus and live mother, which was the result of them inducing labor

then, obviously, the only logical choice is number 2.

But Frothy Rick wants to take choice number 2 away from all women, and that fucking idiot Ron Paul is running around the country claiming he's never seen a case where an abortion was necessary to save the life of the mother. Which makes me wonder what he calls what he did to clear an ectopic pregnancy (19.7 per 1000 pregnancies in the US, and accounts for 10 to 15 percent of all maternal deaths, according to http://www.aafp.org/afp/2000/0215/p1080.html, so if he was an obstetrician for more than a week he's seen one), because there are three ways one of these can go: it can end in miscarriage, you can abort it, or the tube it's lodged in can burst and the mother potentially bleeds to death.

[ensho]

5. that's an insane thing to do

feel sorry for his kids

[LuvNewcastle]

9. I don't think the Santorums realized this, but they made a point

for the other side when they did this. If this had been a 5 year-old child, for instance, there's no way this would have been allowed to happen. When people die, the bodies are taken to the morgue and then released to a funeral home. If little Gabriel had been 5, the Santorums wouldn't have been allowed to take his body home. What this situation says to me is that the dead baby wasn't quite considered to be human remains by the parties involved.

[HockeyMom]

14. or that a baby is more important

than a child or an adult to them? If the mother had died, would they have done this too? I doubt it. As someone else said, something like this could scar their children for the rest of their lives. That baby was more important to them than their living children? That is what it soiunds like to me.

[Hepburn]

10. I remember this and it TOTALLY creeped me out.

What? One of the kiddos needs to meet a dead sibling and wonder why he/she is alive? Gag me.

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. Well, lets hope he does well in Iowa

I want the craziest to win there. Its hard to pick who is in their field of crazies.

[cthulu2016]

19. This is creepy as hell to me, but I cannot attack it

If I read of this being common practice in another culture I would not think that culture deficient.

But to me, it's creepy in an American context.

Didn't one of these guys whose pregnant wife died in a car crash have the baby cut from the corpse sort separate burial... something like that.

[DesertRat]

20. We should attack him on the issues, not on how he handled a personal tragedy

His wife wrote a book about the loss, which included an introduction by Mother Teresa. It does sound bizarre, but who am I to judge how a family deals with losing a baby?

I think that it comes across as heartless and cruel to mock Santorum on this incident.

[Ichingcarpenter]

21. I can fucking do as I like with this

fuck republicans..... this is weird shit when you are running for president.

Call me heartless....? Cruel---call out.

well you go vote for him and defend him

I'm not mocking him ... I'm informing that it happened and its not presidential.

[freshwest]

35. He was indoctrinating his living kids in his pro-life political stance. Remember that...

Family photograph a while back. Those children were crying and emotionally disturbed while being paraded in public for political gain. Santorum is a complete sociopath.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. His wife had a 'partial birth abortion'!

Then they decided to call it a miscarriage or a still birth. They've changed what they call it about once a year. And he still preaches against abortion.

Santorum is one of the WORST of the hypocrites on the right. Yes he does deserve to be attacked for this. If any other woman had had the same medical procedure his wife had, he would be calling her out for murdering her child.

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. He an't running for city council..lol

I really didn't know about this fact until now. I knew about all his attacks on gays, women's rights, immigration, people that are not white enough... etc.

The Romney dog adventure struck a chord almost like this one. I knew about that one and these so called ' personal things' show a great deal on how they would deal with things in office and how they really think about children and living things.

[DesertRat]

27. I didn't read that it was a doctor-induced termination

If it was, that would be the height of hypocrisy. All I've read was that she gave birth to a stillborn baby who lived for 2 hours.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. No. She was faced with saving her life or her baby's.

A lot like many of the women helped by Dr. George Tiller, who was murdered by a right wing extremist.

Karen was in her 19th week of pregnancy. Husband and wife were in a suburban Virginia office for a routine sonogram when a radiologist told them that the fetus Karen was carrying had a fatal defect and was going to die.

After consulting with specialists, who offered several options including abortion, the Santorums decided on long-shot intrauterine surgery to correct an obstruction of the urinary tract called posterior urethral valve syndrome.

A few days later, rare “bladder shunt” surgery was performed at Pennsylvania Hospital in Philadelphia. The incision in the womb carried a high risk of infection.

Two days later, at home in the Pittsburgh suburb of Verona, Karen Santorum became feverish. Her Philadelphia doctors instructed her to hurry to Pittsburgh’s Magee-Women’s Hospital, which has a unit specializing in high-risk pregnancies.

<strong>After examining Karen, who was nearly incoherent with a 105-degree fever, a doctor at Magee led Santorum into the hallway outside her room and said that she had an intrauterine infection and some type of medical intervention was necessary. Unless the source of the infection, the fetus, was removed from Karen’s body, she would likely die.

http://oursilverribbon.org/blog/?p=188

[tammywammy]

77. A stillborn dies in the uterus. Her baby was a live birth, so not stillborn. n/t

[uppityperson]

59. Indeed, thank you.

I won't judge someone by how they grieved, enough other stuff to judge him on.

[backscatter712]

23. Dontcha love Santorum and his Stepford family? n/t

[Aristus]

28. I'm waiting for this to pop up on Snopes, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

The guy is a creepy little turd...

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Why would it pop up on Snopes?

Santorum has written a book detailing this story. There's no doubt it's true.

[Aristus]

38. Oh, okay, I didn't know that he willingly documented it.

Twice as creepy!

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. A poster here says his wife also wrote about it.

I didn't know that before today.

This is so far into creepy. AFAIC, Santorum deserves every bit of crap we can throw his way. He's the worst kind of hypocrite.

He should come out and say 'You know, I was opposed to all abortions until my wife's life was saved by an abortion. Now I understand and support a woman's right to choose a medical procedure, especially when her life is at stake.'

But he's never done this. This is exactly the same as the right wing republicans who snuck into the back door of Dr. Tiller's clinic after hours to have their own babies aborted, and then they continued to speak out against abortion. Just a bunch of holier than thou hypocrites.

[DesertRat]

54. The wife's book doesn't describe an abortion

It's called "Letters to Gabriel". While I haven't read it, I have heard about it. I doubt that Mother Teresa would have written a foreword to a book which detailed an abortion.

[REP]

56. Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu was a well-known hypocrite

The interests she served best were her own.

[Gormy Cuss]

29. Yes they did. I find that far less creepy than Romney strapping a dog carrier to the car roof

for a twelve hour drive. The Santorums were grieving and that can lead people to making really inappropriate or weird decisions. Romney on the other hand had no excuse but arrogance for putting the dog on the roof.

The parts of the Santorum story that I wonder about is why were they allowed to leave the hospital with the body in the first place and why his in-laws didn't step in to stop them. I know that Karen wrote a book about it but I'd love to hear the version from the other actors themselves.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Let's also not forget this baby was aborted

http://oursilverribbon.org/blog/?p=188

[Poll_Blind]

32. I do not judge a parent's grief. I do not judge grieving in general.

Grieving is something intensely personal and, over the course of my life I have seen people grieve over the life of a loved one in many different ways. I won't judge that act.

PB

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I call child abuse when I see it.

And this was child abuse.

[Bucky]

36. People can do odd things when in grief and shock. This isn't political.

If you want to attack Santorum, you have a target rich environment. I think his grieving the loss of his newborn child is off limits. Just don't go there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. This 'baby' was aborted

If another couple did this same thing, Santorum would attack them for murdering their baby.

THAT makes this political.

[Bucky]

42. Is Santorum opposed to abortions to save the life of the mother?

That's the choice they made. Her life was at-risk. Santorum's a sleezeball, to be sure, but in this case he didn't violate his professed ethics. And you'll have to let me excuse myself when it comes to making Republican morality the standard by which I think Democrats should fight.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. By refusing to call this an abortion, his feelings are clear.

If he supports abortion to save the life of the mother, why not admit this very thing happened to his wife?

Instead he calles it a miscarriage, which is not at all what happened. Forced miscarriage perhaps, but that's an abortion.

[Bucky]

62. Actually the except posted pretty much does admit it

He's not as blunt as you'd like him to be. And frankly, it sounds like, against all sense, they were trying to save the fetus. I don't doubt that he's putting a political spin on it after the fact. But your attempts to try and counterspin this as hypocrisy is just as cynical as you're making him sound to be.

Again, Santorum's an irrelevancy. He won't get out of New Hampshire, except maybe as a joke candidate. Iowa will be his high water mark. I don't see the value of being smug about a horrible tragedy in his life. There are many more worthwhile things to criticize him about.

[ecstatic]

90. It's tough to talk about, but the person you're replying to

is right. I'm not comfortable talking about their private matter, but inducing labor, for whatever reason, prior to 24/25 weeks means the fetus will certainly die--also known as an abortion/partial birth abortion. Santorum does not practice what he preaches.

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. As long as he speaks out against late term abortions, I will criticize him

“The doctors said they were talking about a matter of hours or a day or two before risking sepsis and both of them might die,” Santorum said. “Obviously, if it was a choice of whether both Karen and the child are going to die or just the child is going to die, I mean it’s a pretty easy call.”

[moriah]

91. Medication specifically used to induce labor was not administered.

Antibiotics are not abortive -- a septic enviornment in the uterus is not conducive to life. Even if the antibiotics may have made labor come on a bit sooner, it was a medication that was intended to help mother and child.

This was not an abortion.

Still, we should concentrate on his quote:

---

“The doctors said they were talking about a matter of hours or a day or two before risking sepsis and both of them might die,” Santorum said. “Obviously, if it was a choice of whether both Karen and the child are going to die or just the child is going to die, I mean it’s a pretty easy call.”

---

And every time the asshat calls exceptions for the health of the mother "phony", we need to remind him of this. EVERY. Damn. Time.

And when he says Catholic hospitals should have the right to FORCE women like Karen to not be able to make that call themselves -- when they refuse to advise patients of all of their options, or insist on transporting unstable patients to other facilities to induce labor -- just because the child still has a heartbeat.

Every. Damn. Time.

[PurityOfEssence]

39. Yes, it's freaky, but also weirdly honorable and consistent

Full disclosure here: I loathe religion, considering it a shortcut and a mindset of the fearful and indicative of a need for door-slamming certainty and a convenient method to subjugate the poor, weak and needy.

I am an agnostic with the presumption of atheism, but since there's no proof that I can see either way, I must ethically remain on the fence, even as I dispute the concepts of an afterlife and a supreme being. Raised by scientists and engineers, I am comfortable with the concept of "current theory" and consider "faith" and the acceptance of things without proof to be dangerous to us all.

He is part of a weird death-cult, and one that blurs the lines between life and death in the process. To him and his wife, their little baby had a soul and personality and the little moment of almost-life was a precious thing they wanted to share before letting go. It is consistent and sweet in a truly bizarre sort of way, but it seems to stand the test of ethical review.

Christianity is a wacky death-cult, and the other major religions have similar bents.

To completely contextualize this, my mate and I had planned for two children, which we had a bit later on than most who choose to breed. Ten years after, we had a surprise. Many relatives and friends counseled us to abort, but I and my mate could never do such a thing, and it's not for us to judge those who would, nor for them to get a free pass for rolling their eyes at our decision. One should have the legal right to do so, and I don't judge them for doing so when done very early in term, but it's just not for us.

Freakiness is the province of hard-and-fast religion, and much as I loathe Rick Santorum and his totalitarian religious certainty, this fits with the precepts, and I think a pass should be granted for the emotional moment.

As a footnote, too: pronouncements about child-rearing and especially mishaps along the way should be restricted to those who have or have had children. Nothing so touches on the marrow as such moments.

Beyond that, I think it is counterproductive to ridicule deep and heartfelt moments, especially when they're larded with religion.

[cali]

41. I think you said all that very well

there are a shit load of things to criticize Santorum for. How he chooses to grieve- wacky and death cultish as it seems to me- is not one I'll engage in.

[Zalatix]

43. Brain bleach, please?

[Iggo]

47. People go crazy when a baby dies.

I just look away and wait for it to pass.

[mucifer]

48. I'm a pediatric hospice nurse. I think it was good for the siblings to be part of this.

Flame away. I don't care. You probably haven't seen what I have seen.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. I'm an elementary teacher

I think this was TERRIBLE.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

52. When I was six someone tried to make me kiss a dead body.

My grandmother died when I was six and her body was in a coffin in my grandparents front room.

I remember was someone grabbing me, I think it was my dads horrible sister, and carrying me over to the body of a women I was very fond of. I was told to "Kiss grandma for the last time". I went into a frenzy trying to get away. I was outright panic stricken.

Someone intervened, I think it was my dad, before this cruel woman could force my face into that of a corpse.

I still carry this ugly memory with me. That's how I remember my grandmother. Its been 52 years.

Keep children away from dead bodies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Happened to me when I was 12 and I still have nightmares about it.

It was my grandfather. One of my relatives told me to go up there and give him a kiss goodbye. I walked up to the casket and went into panic mode. I thought I was going to throw up.

[dflprincess]

70. In my family we got taken to wakes and funerals from the time we were little

but never, never, never did anyone try to make myself or any of my cousins touch or kiss the dear departed. We were never even "required" to go up and say a prayer by the casket (though most of us were a bit ghoulish and wanted to check things out).

When we were really young some of the funerals were those of my grandmother's aunts & uncles, then her siblings started going. It actually was kind of helpful to go to funerals that young especially for people you didn't really know. I was pretty young when my dad died, but thanks to the past experiences, I knew what to expect at the funeral home & church.

[LuvNewcastle]

80. I had a similar experience.

My grandfather died when I was 5 or 6, and my parents took me with them to the wake and funeral. When we went up to the casket, my father told me to reach out and touch the body; I can still feel the cold clamminess of his hand. Right around the same time, my grandmother came up to the casket bawling and she thumped him on the chest before she was taken away. This was one of my earliest memories of childhood. The situation was grotesque and I don't think I should have experienced that at such a young age. They should have found me a babysitter, or at least kept me away from the coffin.

[DesertRat]

53. My MILwas a l&d nurse

She said that when a baby would die, it was very important in the grieving process that the parents held that baby and spent time with it. They had a room in the hospital where parents would go for times like that. They encouraged the siblings to be there as well.

Most of my teaching career was spent as an early childhood special educator. I admire the work that you do. It can't be easy.

[mucifer]

55. Most children want to be a part of this experience.

I know many families that have spent hours and hours with their child's body before the funeral home comes to pick up the body. It is not a horror show. It is something very personal.

It's easy to say it's some evil republican's twisted way of torturing their children.

The problem is that most people in the USA don't see death especially the death of children so what they don't see scares them.

Of the siblings that I have asked "Are you glad that it happened here and not in the hospital?" I have never gotten a "no".
Of course, I haven't asked every sibling. I realize the baby did not die in the hospital.

The issue is we don't know exactly what happened. I'm pretty sure it did not happen the way many people in this thread think it happened.

Until I have actual evidence that the children were traumatized, I'm going with my gut and thinking it was ok.

[REP]

57. We do know what happened. His wife had an abortion at 19 weeks & they brought home the fetus

This wasn't a full-term still-birth. She had an abortion to save her life, and they brought home the dead fetus.

[DesertRat]

58. What is the source of this supposed abortion? n/t

[Nikia]

61. If the baby lived for two hours, it probably wasn't an abortion

Even there was an induction or caesarean, I don't think that this is usually called abortion. I know that the baby could not have lived at that point. Sometimes the fetus is a little older and it is an emergency and there is a chance that it might make it or not. If it dies, I don't think that is usually considered an abortion. I have an aquaintance who had an emergency caesarean at 28 weeks with the baby now doing well at six months, I think that if her baby had died, she would be horrified if people thought of that as an abortion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. I have a friend who is a gynecologist who used to perform abortions.

She says this is an abortion. Santorum just prettied it up by calling it a miscarriage and a stillbirth.

[Control-Z]

79. This. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

49. ...

Creepy!

[zappaman]

63. bye.

man, this will be a quick visit, huh?

[benld74]

66. Has got to be a farce. HOW can that EVEN be legal in todays day and time????

[Trillo]

67. How sad. May your lives be enriched by the experience.

Perhaps that is your luckiest love child, not having to suffer this world for more than the briefest of moments.

[arely staircase]

68. well, on the one hand - fuck Mark McKinnon

on the other hand - yikes

[NinetySix]

71. Unbelievable.

More unbelievable than actually having done so is that he seems to have no problem with the story being recounted in the national media, as though he is proud of it. Just what sort of fringies is he trying to court with that kind of a bizarre yarn?

I haven't read anything this creepy since "A Rose for Emily."

[arely staircase]

81. I think the Repubs are just trying to outwierd each other at this point.

Oh yeah, I'll see your racist newsletter and raise you a dead baby!

[DeathToTheOil]

72. Cheap

WTF would you do if your baby was stillborn?

Well?

Didn't think so.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

76. What would you do?

I would not bring the body home to snuggle and cuddle and to freak out little children with it.

I've had more than my fair share of miscarriages and I did not make a big deal of them. I saved that for my living babies.

[treestar]

83. I wonder that experience didn't make him more tolerant

of other people's choices.

[freckleback]

84. "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"?

It is sad to see so many hateful people on one site. What many of you think is sick, by a person taking a baby home after it is dead, don't apparently have any heritage or relatives, and don't have a clue this life we live now, has not always been this way. My mother showed me photos passed down from family, of her younger sister and brother who died when she was just a child, and their bodys were in the home which was a common act! It was Not Unusual to take your "dead" home, and they were in the house for days, not just overnight. People call it mourning it happens all around the world. Of course not here in the land of dreamers, for all of those who know nothing about the history of this country and how things used to be.... and I'll go as far as to say will be again. Because of the choices most of you are making right now. This country will fall into the hands of those that will do exactly what you are wanting: "To have someone take control over you lives because you won't control yourselves!" The people you are looking for to give you your little piece of the pie, out of someone else's pocket, are the very people who will take from you everything you have, specifically your Freedom. I am not talking Democrat or Republican. I am talking about all of those who hold the idea that you as citizens are not smart enough to govern yourselves. You cannot take what is not yours from someone else. Anyone that thinks like this are lazy and deserve being ruled over. Wake up people stop complaining and crying about what you don't have and make America again what it used to be. It used to be filled with people who worked hard for what they got and didn't spend themselves into debt. They were men that understood your destiny does not depend on someone else it depends on you. You will long for these days to once again be free but you won't find them. Watch closely at what is coming. You might mock me now but your own words will mock you when this happens. "Make your choices as if they were to effect a million people, and they will!" Either you will choose to live free or you will live bound by your own chains! Physically, Spiritually, Emotionally.

[FrenchieCat]

85. I find your Broad generalizations to be quite chilling....

many folks on this thread had different opinions, but you chose not to acknowledge that fact.....which is as creepy to me, as it only makes it convenient for your to then go on with your screed.

The rich got a tax cut back in 2001, but the US can no longer afford that, so the rich's tax cut should be trimmed back. That ain't taking something (most of which was earned sitting in the bank earning interest) and giving it to others--That's charging a bit more tax for the privilege of living in a country where one can be seriously rich with or without ever doing a damn thing.



The 'patriotic' millionaires who want to pay more taxes
http://theweek.com/article/index/209622/the-patriotic-millionaires-who-want-to-pay-more-taxes


Most Millionaires Want Higher Taxes For Millionaires: Survey
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/27/millionaire-tax-warren-buffett_n_1035763.html


You can lecture folks if you want, but doesn't mean that your lecture is accurate.

As for being "free".....there ain't no "free" lunch for anyone of us, and that just the way it fucking is.

[cecilfirefox]

93. Amen. +1.

[moriah]

86. It used to be common to hold the wake in a person's home.

I'm not judging how they reacted in their grief.

[Liberal_in_LA]

87. so hospitals allow you to take the body home and handle it for a few hours?

[mzmolly]

88. Eew.

Beyond the bizarre thing, what unnecessary trauma he created for the children in his home.

Did they introduce Gabriel as the "aborted" sibling?

[cecilfirefox]

92. I think we need to be a little fair here,

His son died, lived for two hours and died- actually lived for two hours, he wasn't still born. When my dog Rusty died in 07 it fucked me up rightly. I can only imagine how distraught I'd be if I lost a child! I admit, it may seem a little ghoulish to some people, but if that's how they deal with their grief in that particular situation I can't fault them.

[bowens43]

94. what a sick f*ck.

this lunatic should have been committed after doing this.

[lapislzi]

96. Put the issue down and back away slowly.

However weird, bizarre, creepy, touching, or disturbing you find this incident to be, there are NO POINTS to be scored here.

However hypocritical you find Santorum to be, ridiculing his family's behavior after the loss of a baby/fetus/pregnancy is sure to backfire. Their grief, and how they chose to mourn, is not for public consumption. See? That's what "choice" is all about.

You weren't there. You can't judge.