Serena Williams on having a baby: "I'm about to be a real woman now"

[LittleBlue]

But before she can tackle those barriers, Williams, who is eight months pregnant, has to tackle the immediate challenge in front of her: child birth. When asked about it, she shared it’s a process she looks forward to, despite her aforementioned fears, because she believes she’ll be “a real woman now.”

“I have so much respect for so many women [for giving birth]. I am about to be a real woman now, you know? It’s going to be something incredibly impressive to go through.”

I’ll admit, I cringed a bit at Williams’ “real woman” declaration which goes against the very stigma feminists and childless woman have been fighting since the beginning of time, but I understand the sentiment of feeling like there’s nothing you can’t do once you bring life into this world. We’re definitely looking forward to watching Williams continue her reign of domination as a mother.

http://madamenoire.com/838224/serena-williams-real-woman/

Saw this on twitter. Thoughts? Valid viewpoint or too exclusionary?

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

1. So, is she saying that women like me, for example, who wanted children so passsionately but

serious medical issues prevented me from carrying to term, which one born asleep, aren't women? IGNORANT AS HELL!

[Bettie]

20. First, so sorry for your loss

both the stillbirth and of the dream of being the mom you wanted to be.

I think this is her personal feeling, a milestone for her. She's also fortunate not to have had losses like so many of us have had.

We lost our first at birth and had three miscarriages.

I look at statements like this as the innocence of seeing a positive test and believing that there will be a birth in nine or so months.

[StevieM]

71. I am so sorry for you losses. (eom)

[Coventina]

40. Agree, a grossly insensitive thing to say.

You are a real women, no matter what the broader society tells you.

Most people don't understand how baby-worshipping our culture has become, and how that hurts those who cannot bear children.

[Neema]

98. My own infertility struggles not withstanding,

I sometimes want to say "uh, google says that over a hundred billion people have been born throughout history. You're not *that* special for having one yourself." The cult of mommy-hood can be a bit hard to take sometimes.

[Coventina]

99. I think it's a weird by-product of reduced family sizes.

Babies have become a "project" that women undertake when "ready."

And, because this tendency for fewer and later babies, it becomes A REALLY HUGE DEAL.

Everybody is involved, there are "gender reveal parties" and baby showers (even for second babies) and expectant women wear the tightest clothes possible to glorify their "baby bump."

Of course, I'm talking about middle and upper classes here.

The working poor of course, are held in contempt when they breed.

[Neema]

132. I think you're right.

And then you get those women who act like they are the only woman in existence to have ever given birth and must be treated accordingly.

[Coventina]

136. Don't even get me started.

I could rant on and on....I have a lot of anger from my "Child-bearing years" and my failures at it.

Because yes, you are made to feel like a failure. Everything in society is so baby crazy, it's unreal. Others in this thread will think that we're overreacting....just like white people don't "see" all the embedded racism of our culture.

Remember all the stuff about Kate Middleton's first pregnancy? It was like it had never happened on earth before.

Celebrity reproduction (Beyonce, the Kardashians, et. al.) is a whole industry unto itself.

Sorry, to go on and on. It just feels good to be able to vent, for a change. Like you've said, we are mostly silenced.

[Neema]

139. Vent all you want. I totally get it.

I remember being at a party and people started talking about pregnancy cravings and, without thinking, I blurted out an odd food I craved constantly. You would have thought I took a shit in the middle of the floor by reminding people that some women experience pregnancy and don't get to take a baby home from the hospital.

This thread really does make me realize that "fertile privilege" is a thing. Folks are getting downright hostile at the suggestion that comments like Serena's hurt, whether or not they were intentional.

We are silenced because we make people uncomfortable. People have no idea how many women in their lives have suffered with infertility and pregnancy loss. Or how many women are made to feel like they are crazy or substandard in some way because they don't want children. They would be absolutely shocked if they did, I think.

[Coventina]

142. "fertile privilege" --I love it!

And it is SO TRUE!

And yes, people do get REALLY hostile if you express any of your own anger and disappointment.

I guess it's the special status of women to not even be allowed to be angry over a uniquely female pain.

[lsewpershad]

129. Or

Choose not to have children.
We however should not over think what she said. After all she was so often referred to of being masculine because of her body and athleticsm.

[sweetroxie]

149. Or who choose not to

have children. I'm in that category. Never wanted one, never had one. It doesn't make me any less a woman.

[Coventina]

150. Most definitely agree!! Being a woman is not at all equivalent to being a mother.

[Neema]

57. In the same boat sister and it pisses me off. Also when folks say "you don't know true love until

you've had a child." Fuck off.

[Bettie]

76. You don't know true frustration

until you've tried to reason with a three year old, but you can do that without having one of your own!

[SouthernIrish]

86. I feel the same Neema.

That really pisses me off. Very insensitive.

[Redlineoverdrive]

2. Just the circle of life

Isn't the whole point to provide and have a family? Or just provide for your self if you want. She can view her self as what ever kind of woman she wants right? Just because you don't have kids doesn't mean your a fake woman.

[AlexSFCA]

3. C'mon...

sports folks aren't the most eloquent. We can't
be all that sensitive, it's wrong, grow a bone. In this context, it is reasonable to have such thoughts because only 'real' women are able to give birth so Serena may feel it will make her feel like a woman. Pro sports is a tough business, not really feminine.
It's not the words we should care about but actions.

[madaboutharry]

4. Sometimes people say things

without realizing how hurtful their words can be to others. Maybe motherhood is connecting her to her femininity after a lifetime of competition and athletics. I doubt she meant it as a slight to women who don't have children. Hopefully she'll walk it back.

[Mosby]

66. She's been competing since a teenager

I think you're right, motherhood is probably the most distinctively different thing she has ever done outside of her work as an athelete, which, like it or not has been the way she is defined as a person.

[eShirl]

109. her whole career she's been the target of hurtful comments

people saying she looks like a man or is a man

[BeyondGeography]

5. She's happy

She's not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. Leave her be.

[Laffy Kat]

6. Uh oh:

[torius]

7. That explains

her 1950s baby shower...

[chowder66]

8. I don't know. Seems to me that the feeling of becoming a real woman is different for everyone

some may see it as getting married, having a baby, buying a home, going on a trip alone, etc.
And I get the "real" part. I think some may feel like a woman but sometimes things in life happen that deepen that feeling.

[SharonClark]

25. I think you are confusing 'becoming a woman' with 'becoming an adult'.

[chowder66]

82. I think some see them as interchangeable whether it's correct or not. nt

[RestoreAmerica2020]

9. Every woman has the right to define who they are and what makes them uniquely woman

....a person really. Ms. Williams, congratulations on motherhood!

[applegrove]

10. +1

[elehhhhna]

12. Thank you. It's interesting, because

this is a woman who has had control over her body like we can't even imagine . When she gets into labor and delivery , the body's going to take over and it's almost like your head is just along for the ride. It's a pretty wild experience, and for someone who is accustomed to total bodily control, it will probably be a wild ride

[Orrex]

14. Thread win (nt)

[malaise]

38. Yep

it's that simple

[Kaleva]

75. +2

[FM123]

108. Since she said "I" and was only speaking for herself...

I'm fine with whatever she wants to say - she is entitled to her feelings.

[Dream Girl]

117. Agree, leave her be. She's happy and has every tight to express her feelings.

[elehhhhna]

11. Look, she's got baby on the brain, and this is a cringey thing to say

But who cares really

[Neema]

58. Plenty of women who struggle with infertility or who just choose to not have children might care.

It's very difficult not to internalize that you are some how "less than" when you hear shit like this, or "you don't know the meaning of love until you've had a child" or any of the other things that people thoughtlessly say.

[elehhhhna]

92. Only if they care what a random athlete they never met thinks

If you've ever been misquoted, you will carry a deep understanding that context is everything and words are twisted.

I think you're talking about people saying this to one's face, which is a whole different story and actually appallingly stupid tho.

[Neema]

96. I don't care what a random athlete thinks. But I do care what gets accepted as general truth,

and comments made by someone with a large following have a way of being normalized.

I imagine she of all people does carry a deep understanding of context and and how words are twisted, so she should be extra careful with those words.

[elehhhhna]

100. This may sound awful but I will share what I know about top class athletes

they spend their time training. They do not spend their time reading, learning, or studying . Context is important in considering the source of any remark is good.

She's amazing absolutely amazing at what she does. It's a really poorly informed thing for her to say, but our rights are being eroded legally by our government on the daily and her silly remark was very emotional. Perhaps she thinks that having a baby will make her feel like more of a total whole woman whatever . Frankly, if that's what she needs I hope it happens!

[Neema]

107. I totally agree with everything you're saying.

But I also think that educating a public figure about what their words mean, regardless of their innocent intent, is an important way to enlighten everyone who sees the conversation. If the public telling Serena Williams that it's not cool to imply that having a baby is what makes you a real women, then maybe someone will think twice before saying it to a woman who may have just lost a baby. Is it as important as climate change and the President pushing us into nuclear war? No of course not. But Serena seems like a good person and I'd like to believe that she doesn't want to unknowingly hurt people with her words.

[elehhhhna]

118. Okay I get you

[Neema]

133. Thanks.

I appreciate you saying that.

[TheFrenchRazor]

146. word. nt

[Madam Mossfern]

111. I agree with you

and I have four children.

[Neema]

113. Thanks Madam

I'm glad someone gets it.

[get the red out]

115. Me too

I was reading this wondering how I should feel as a childfree woman. I am sure Ms. Williams was only speaking for herself, I believe she is a good person and would not have intended her remark to be harmful to anyone.

I am 53, so am not pestered by others about having a baby now; but I do see a bit of danger in how OTHERS might take what she said, especially as we see look at the possibility of a "President Pence", and the current theocratic overtones in this country. I will never forget seeing a post by a religious right guy on a message board years ago, around the time that Bush was running for his first term, that said women without children were "useless eaters". I don't think the religious right has gotten one bit more generous in judging the way others live, and stifling their desire to see them NOT live, accordingly. I am possibly paranoid, but I would hate to see the right pick this up and pummel women with it. That jerk at Google is pummelling women currently just because he felt like it, and from what I read, the righties think what he said is great.

[Neema]

134. I absolutely do not believe

she intended to insult anyone with her remark. But most thoughtless remarks do not have malicious intent. It doesn't necessarily mean they should be tolerated. I feel like maybe calling her out might make someone down the road think "would I say this to a woman who I knew just had a miscarriage?" before they make a similar comment. And that's a good thing.

[gratuitous]

68. When this quote gets thrown back in women's faces

Those women might care. "Even Serena Williams said . . ." I suppose millions of women across the country should thank Williams now for the taunting and ridicule they'll get in years to come from insensitive louts who will appropriate her words for their own misogynistic purposes.

[elehhhhna]

93. I would remind those people that Serena is an outstanding athlete and

not considered a deep thinker

[Kingofalldems]

13. Awww I see what you are doing here.

[LittleBlue]

85. Awww, you support the Nationals

Bless your little heart.

[Kingofalldems]

116. What do the Nats have to do with anything?

Just commenting on your very clever thread.

[LittleBlue]

119. Your comment was irrelevant to the OP, so I'd rather discuss baseball

I will enjoy once again watching your perennial underachievers lose in the playoffs, to a team against whom they have no business losing. You've got 2 seasons left with Harper before he leaves for a chance to win a WS, enjoy them.

[Kingofalldems]

127. Maybe Jesus will intervene.

[LittleBlue]

159. You mean lord and savior Harper

(Please come to the Giants! Please come to the Giants!)

Who am I fooling? He's not coming here.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. Inartful but I give it a pass.

[RobinA]

16. Serena Can Have

an opinion. To broaden her horizon a bit, I might invite her to come work with me with the victims and perpetrators of some pretty significant child abuse. Producing a baby is pretty much a biological process that either works for you or it doesn't.

[tavernier]

17. A real woman.

Silly thing to say, but she's young.

[SharonClark]

26. She's 35.

[tavernier]

29. I'm 70.

Opinions change over the years. I once thought bell bottom pants and ponchos were stylish.

[kwassa]

55. They aren't?

[lunatica]

88. You mean they aren't?!

Oh Shit!

I'm 69.

[tavernier]

143. My dad who died at 91 a few years back

still thought the Twist was the latest dance craze.

[lunatica]

145. It isn't?!

[Weekend Warrior]

18. From a mans perspective.

It's an unbelievable undertaking. It takes so much strength. Serena gets to define herself how she wants. Good on her.

[Lee-Lee]

19. As a woman who can't have children I deal with this kind of crap all the time

We are judged on one primary thing as women- how well we pop out babies. Everything else is secondary.

If you can't do that, you are "not a real woman" or "incomplete" or "unfulfilled or any of a number of adjectives used that all have negative connotations.

And it's mostly other women who do it.

It's cost me relationships when men find I can't give them children. Typically they think they are ok with it but later discover they are not.

It's something that I wish wasn't how I was born and something that I have learned to deal with and accept- but I get almost daily little jabs like this that remind me of what I can't have and how society sees me as "less than" on account of it.

[Bettie]

21. I get it for having had c-sections

"Well, you don't know what it's like to really give birth".

Our society makes everything a competition between women.

[tymorial]

30. My wife went through that with the fertility treatments

We tried for years to have a baby, three IUI, three IVF resulting in one miscarriage and one pregnancy that had to be terminated because of severe defect. Colleagues of hers who work IN A HOSPITAL were talking one day about how pregnancy resulting from fertility treatments weren't as valid and a c section wasn't really giving birth. She didn't say anything because she just wouldn't but I knew it cut her inside. We eventually got pregnant after we had completely given up all hope.

I sympathize with every man and woman who has gone through those treatments without success. Z DIsappointment doesn't describe the emotion of knowing it won't happen. I feel guilty even writing about this because we eventually got lucky and it just happened once we stoppes trying. Still I remember that feeling of hopelessness .

I get why Serena 's comments will hurt though I am sure that wasn't her intention.

[Madam Mossfern]

114. Oh yeah

me too. Scorned because I didn't push them out. It's true - some people make you feel like a failure.

[Neema]

59. Yep. Same here.

And, judging by the comments I see on this thread, we're just supposed to shut the fuck up and not complain that it's hurtful when motherhood is fetishized to the point that a woman is only complete when she has a child.

[Lee-Lee]

123. "She didn't mean it" "she's young"

All the excuses.

If sold old white guy said the same thing about how a woman with a successful career wasn't a "real woman" until she had a child do you think the same apologists would be ok with it?

[Neema]

140. "It's just locker room talk." "Boys will be boys."

I guess it depends on who gets hurt by the language.

[LittleBlue]

87. Can I ask a question?

It's cost me relationships when men find I can't give them children. Typically they think they are ok with it but later discover they are not.

I know men who have been divorced and already have kids, and for that reason won't even consider dating a woman who wants more. My office is full of 40 somethings in this situation. Is it difficult finding those kinds of men?

[Lee-Lee]

120. Now that I'm in my 40's it's not

But in my 20's and 30's it was a serious issue.

[LittleBlue]

122. Gotcha

I wish you the best of luck in finding Mr Right, whoever he is.

[nini]

22. So we are supposed to think she's insulting other women?

I doubt that. She seems to be in awe of what is coming in her life. Constant butthurt over someones choice of words is getting tiresome.

[Coventina]

45. Whether she meant to or not, she did. n/t

[nini]

50. YOU chose to interpret her words your way

She has a history of standing up for women's rights but I guess that means nothing because she said something in a way you don't like,

[Coventina]

53. Nope. If a male athlete said he was about to become a "real man" because he had

fathered a child, he would be mocked mercilessly, and rightly so.

[Kaleva]

63. It wouldnt phase me a bit if a man said such a thing

Every individual has the right to define themselves.

[Coventina]

74. Fine, but they don't get to define what being a "real woman" is.

If she was achieving HER goal, then that's what she should have said.

[Kaleva]

77. Apparently that is her goal and that is what she feels defines her.

She's talking about herself. It'd be much different if she was refering to another pregnant woman

[Coventina]

79. No, she was identifying herself as entering a pre-existing group/ideal of real women

Those were HER WORDS.

[Kaleva]

84. Again, it's her definition

I have a great deal of repect for women who give birth. I have a great deal of repect for women who chose a caree over having a family. I have a great deal of respect for those who do both. I have a great deal of respect for those who decde what makes them real.

[Coventina]

95. But apparently no respect for women who find "motherhood" a definition of "real woman" hurtful.

[Kaleva]

155. I imagine that the words and actions of empowered women can be hurtful to others

[Coventina]

160. Hurting others is not empowerment.

[miyazaki]

65. at least she didn't threaten to kill another line judge in the middle of a match

like she did years back.

[smirkymonkey]

78. And just a thought exercise, what if Ivanka Trump had said this?

She would be ripped apart mercilessly. I like Serena, but this was a pretty thoughtless thing to say.

[Coventina]

80. Agreed. It is incredibly hurtful for those of us who have no offspring.

It is implying a "less-than" status.

[Neema]

101. Thank you.

That is absolutely true. I'm pretty astounded by the number of people on this thread that are not only giving this a pass (just because she may not have intended to be hurtful doesn't make it okay) but are actually telling women who take offense that they are unnecessarily "butthurt" or some other bullshit.

I sat at a baby shower shortly after my first miscarriage (which no one knew about because we're not allowed to talk about such things) and I heard comments like this. And as much as I knew they didn't mean to hurt me personally, it still hurt.

And it sort of makes the platitudes that people say to comfort you when they do find out you've lost a pregnancy ring pretty false.

[Coventina]

104. Dear God/dess don't even get me started on the platitudes!

"It wasn't meant to be."

"A perfect baby is waiting for you."


"It just wasn't the right time."

"Get pregnant again right away, that will make it better."

"It's all part of God's plan."

I learned quickly to keep my mouth shut.

[Neema]

61. It's also pretty tiresome to live in a society that tells a woman she's "less than" until

she gives birth. Or to have people tell you that you don't know the meaning of true love until you've had a child. Or to have people ask if you have children and then pretty much end the conversation and walk away when you say you don't. Or constantly ask you "so when are you having one of your own?" without stopping to consider that maybe you've been trying for years without luck. But if you tell them about the horrendous miscarriage you just had, then you're the one being a Debbie Downer.

But, sure, of course we should all just swallow all that so as not to cause real women a single moment of self-reflection while they're busy bringing forth their miracle.

[nini]

72. I agree with that overall

I just don't think she meant it that way knowing her history on speaking to feminist issues.

She is excited about being a mom.

[Neema]

89. I agree that I don't think she meant anything by it,

but part of being a conscientious person is examining what you say and how it might be hurtful, however innocent your intentions might be. I think it's important to call people out (especially those with a public following) when they say stuff like this so that people can start recognizing how to better craft their words.

I think the subject of motherhood is especially fraught because infertility is so taboo. In my experience, it's okay to talk about for a very short amount of time, very discreetly, and only if you're actively pursuing every form of fertility treatment available (at which point you have everyone telling you that you should "just relax" and it will happen). Statements like "it hasn't worked out yet, but we're hopeful" are about as detailed as anyone wants. It's not okay mention miscarriage, grief, or any ambivalence at all about the process or the idea of motherhood.

Because it's so taboo, I think people make comments similar to Serena's without ever even realizing that 2 or 3 people within earshot might be really hurt by it. Shortly after moving into my house, I lost my final pregnancy in the second trimester. My new neighbors didn't know. I ran into one the day after it happened and she stopped to compliment me on my garden, then followed up with the comment "Lucky you. I have 2 kids so I don't have time for such things." She meant nothing by it, of course, but if she'd known she never would have said it.

[Coventina]

73. Sing it, sister. I've had so many miscarriages that I gave up counting them.

But heaven help you if you mention it to anyone who brings up the subject of children.

You really find out who your friends are, when infertility happens.

Family, too.

[Neema]

91. Yup. You really do.

Infertility is too taboo to talk about, so most people don't have any idea how insulting their comments are to a fair percentage of everyone within earshot.

[mythology]

23. A stupid thing to say, but without a history of saying similar

Things, I can write it off. Especially since she speaks out on income disparity for black women, showing she is aware of things on a larger scale.

[SharonClark]

24. It's not a stupid thing to say, if that is what she believes.

She is speaking that pregnancy and motherhood will make HER a real woman. How sad for her that she felt like a fake woman up to now.

[Towlie]

28. You're right, it's only a stupid thing to believe.

[Bradical79]

27. As a one off statement from an excited expectant mother

No big deal.

[LovingA2andMI]

31. She Can Say What She WANTS...

It's Her Body, Her Baby, Her Choice. Congrats Serena on your upcoming arrival.

[Neema]

62. Everyone can say what they want. It's a matter of whether or not they choose to say something

careless and untrue that is hurtful to people who already struggle with infertility or to women who choose not to have children. I'm thrilled for Serena. I am. I wish her every happiness. She's accomplished so much and overcome more than her share of insults over the years. That's why I'd hope she'd be a little more sensitive in her comments.

[SHRED]

32. She sounds confused

Like she feels guilty for being a female athlete for some reason.

[theophilus]

33. It was an insensitive comment. She should apologize to other women who

have managed to be women without having given birth (or even become pregnant). Looking about at the world I feel pity for anyone causing a child to enter it right now. There needs to be more courage when it comes to NOT having a child.

[Duppers]

43. +1000

"Looking about at the world I feel pity for anyone causing a child to enter it right now. There needs to be more courage when it comes to NOT having a child."

AMEN!!

Folks should read climate change reports before they decide to have children who, most assuredly, will severely suffer in the coming decades.

[3catwoman3]

34. I was fortunate enough to have 2 easily...

...conceived pregnancies at ages 38 and 41. 2 C-sections - the first for medical reasons, and the second by choice. Healthy sons, who are now 27 and 24.

During both pregnancies, I remember very distinctly feeling a different and deeper sense of connection to what I thought of, at the time, as the history of womanhood. I was having an experience that most of the women in the long history of the planet had also had. It was a profound sensation.

I can relate to what Ms. Williams is saying. I choose to think that she did not mean it to be dismissive of our fellow women who have not, for whatever reason, been able to join in this experience.

Very interesting point above about the body taking over during labor, and wondering what that will be like for someone who is so accustomed to being in control of her body. Due to the C-sections, I did not go thru labor either time, and will always wonder how I would have handled it.

[nolabear]

35. She's just happy. Let her be happy.

It's an off the cuff remark and sounds like one of those "everyone thinks I've done so much but this is the most amazing..." etc. remarks. Not meant to hurt.

[grantcart]

103. no way we have to take apart every syllable that every one says about everything.

I am with you, lets just wish her good luck.

[Neema]

144. I absolutely wish her the best and do not think she intended to insult anyone.

But I think it's absolutely fair to educate a person in the public eye that their words can hurt whether or not the intention was there. The thing is there are many people who think a woman is "less than a woman" if she cannot have or does not want a baby. And someone with a public forum only reinforces that ridiculous notion when they say things like this, whether or not any ill-intent was behind it.

You have no idea how many women suffer in silence because infertility is such a taboo topic, and hearing comments like this or "you don't know the mean of true love until you've had a child" when you're already feeling broken does not help. But I guess we should all just sit down and shut up.

[Coventina]

36. Grossly insensitive to those who for various reasons choose not or cannot.

Big thumbs down from me.

[Blue_Tires]

37. I'm just pissed because she was supposed to marry ME

That's what happens when you procrastinate instead of closing the deal.

[theaocp]

39. It needs followup.

Did she feel like a fake woman up until now? Are there other qualifiers for making a real woman?

After she gives birth, she should do some introspection, realize the cutting side of her comments, and apologize. No biggie.

[Duppers]

41. I thought we outgrew such sentiment in the '60s or

Certainly the 70's.

I suffered aspersions regarding why I had not had a child, until I did in my mid-30s. "Don't you want to prove your womanhood?" Bullcrap! Even had a shrink ask me that insulting question!

I wish Ms. Williams had said "I 'feel' I'm about to be a real woman." That's a little less hurtful to childless women who have been pressured by family and society to procreate to prove something.

[nini]

42. Here's an article that might enlighten the haters as to how she really feels

https://www.buzzfeed.com/elliewoodward/serena-williams-is-even-more-determined-to-tackle?utm_term=.fklBNDRMD#.wm6KyOQ1O

[Le Gaucher]

44. She is happy.. this moment is about her and no one else.. so stop reading too much into it

[LisaL]

49. Only she is a public figure. She is famous.

People presumably pay attention to what she says.

[Dream Girl]

121. Just stop, okay.

[LisaL]

153. No, not okay.

You can express your own opinion but don't tell me I can't express mine.

[Dream Girl]

156. That only goes for Serena. How ironic.

[oegthe]

46. Isn't there a distinction...

between understanding and accepting Ms Williams' right to feel and speak as she wishes, and defining, as individuals and in society, what makes "a real woman"? One can be happy for her, and sympathize with her, without believing for a minute that having a baby makes one "a real woman" or that (as has been claimed here) having a family is "what it's all about."

[Coventina]

47. When a trans man gives birth, does that make him a real woman?

It happens.

Don't we honor the person's gender choice? Or is giving birth the gender identifier?

[Duppers]

52. 👍👍

[LisaL]

48. I presume she didn't mean to upset anybody.

But saying she is about to be a real woman now, because she is about to have a child, suggests what, exactly?
That those women that either don't want or can't have children are not real women?

[TheDebbieDee]

51. It's sad to think that in America in 2017

That there are women who having a baby makes you a woman... Just sad!

[ismnotwasm]

54. Congratulations on your upcoming child Ms. Williams

May we share your joy, and not comb over your every word looking for "flaws". Pregnancy, no matter what the outcome changes you for the rest of your life.

Fetal Chimera cells shed as early as 7 weeks, and stay in our bodies forever. if you miscarry at 8 weeks, you retain a souvenir of the child that never was. Pregnancy itself makes profound changes in our bodies--some for good some for ill. Pregnancy can be exhausting, exhilarating, heartbreaking. Deadly.

A choice to BE a mother is as profound as a choice to stay child-free. That There are women who lack choice for either is something I never forget,

I wish Ms. Williams all the joy of a successful, healthy pregnancy.

[stevenleser]

60. +GooglePlex

I'm sick of people looking for reasons to attack the Williams sisters.

It's hard not to think that the temerity of being a successful tennis player while black isn't part of the reason for increased scrutiny.

[ismnotwasm]

81. Exactly

[no_hypocrisy]

56. I laughed (admittedly derisively) almost 40 years ago when I heard the same words.

What made it especially funny to me was those words were publicly uttered by the wife of our college president. And our college was Sweet Briar, one of the last independent all women's colleges. Having children was seen as an option, not a mandate, to be a complete woman, especially in the Seventies.

[MrsCoffee]

64. Maybe it has something to do with the internet and media masculating her all the time.

I'm not excusing it, just trying to figure out why she might say that.

[Caliman73]

67. I think that Serena needs a bit of gentle education.

The idea of motherhood is a strongly ingrained cultural message about the value and role of women, but as many here have pointed out, it is not the sole value or role, and it should never be used as a marker for the value of a woman. Motherhood is a choice for some, but not an option for others. It is not particularly appealing to others and that is perfectly legitimate.

We need to get away from the idea of what a "real woman" or "real man" is for that matter. Someone needs to sit down with Serena and gently remind her of that.

[PragmaticLiberal]

70. Personally, I don't think Serena needs to be reminded of anything.

I took it as motherhood makes "HER" feel like a real woman.

And that's cool if she feels that way...or doesn't. Imo.

[geek tragedy]

69. cringe-worthy, but giving her a pass nt

[Orsino]

83. I guess she can be as excited as she wants, but damn, that's thoughtless.

Probably says more about her own feelings of inadequacy than about anyone else's.

[lunatica]

90. Honey, You're about to find out a 'real woman', like you say

is one tired, out of shape, shitty diaper changer.

Not as truly glorious as you may believe.

LOL!

There ain't no angels singing and Sun rays on your head and sitting on clouds involved.

[Oneironaut]

94. Massive overreaction to a small comment.

What makes people believe the comment was intended to be hurtful or exclusionary? Even if it was, I fail to see the big deal?

[Neema]

97. Intention is not the only thing here. Of course her intention was not to be hurtful.

My mother does not intend to be disrespectful when she calls Asian people "Oriental" but does that mean she shouldn't be educated?

[eShirl]

102. You were always a real woman, Serena.

[Doreen]

105. I have always wondered if I am a real women and now I know I'm not.

Though, I wonder what kind of person she thinks I am for having three miscarriages and one of them being at 5 and a half months. I have never had the ability to have children just miscarriages so I will never be a real women.

[Coventina]

106. You are loved and supported by those of us who have suffered the same or similar.

[Doreen]

125. Thank you.

[Neema]

112. Another pseudo-woman here.

My latest was at four months. I see you.

I recently had a miscarriage (wasn't trying, no longer want children, way too old). I told my sister she got all worried. Asked if I was going to go to the doctor. I was like "meh. I'll miscarry in no time, no worries." She said "but women can bleed to death, blah blah blah..." and I responded "Don't worry. I may not be able to have children but I'm very good at miscarrying. I'll know if there's any cause for concern."

[Doreen]

124. Each time I did not know I was pregnant. The last time I was pregnant was not an actual

miscarriage but a removal when they found I had an ectopic pregnancy when they were doing an exploratory surgery to see why I was in excruciating pain. I used to want children but now I am to old and kind of glad I did not because to be truthful with my inability to handle a lot of stress I do not think I would have made a good mother. I did not go to the doctor the first two times...I mean why..there was nothing they could do and other than emotionally I felt fine.

[Neema]

141. I'm sorry about your ectopic. I haven't experienced that but I have

friends who did and it sounds awful. But yeah, otherwise, why go and have them say "yeah, you're miscarrying. Come back if you're still bleeding in two weeks."

[phleshdef]

110. Its a benign comment.

[Heddi]

126. I was childfree by choice for many years -- now I'm childfree by biology

For the longest time, I din't want a child and neither did my husband. When we realized we did, we also found out that i'm unable to carry a child to term.

I've heard since I was roughly 18 that I don't have a real family, that I don't know what real love is, that I have no concept of real sacrifice until I have a child.

Having been married for 20 years makes no different. I have been told by coworkers that I don't have "a family" when it comes to holidays, overtime, or weekend work, so I should be the first to sign up.

It's a sterotype that is perpetuated by insensitive comments by Serena and sadly, so many other women in society. That your worth is directly tied to your uterine activity.

Fuck her.

[Coventina]

128. Yep. I was also told that I would never know real love without having children.

And, had the same discrimination at work as well.

At my previous place of employment, people with children were allowed to leave early on Christmas Eve.

Hopefully, that kind of discrimination would not be allowed anymore...

[Heddi]

131. You'd think it wouldn't be allowed, but it is

I see my coworkers (I'm the only one without a child) being allowed to leave early, come in late, take extra long lunches, all without having to use PTO because of "kid things" -- not emergencies, but they're late to school, late coming home, need to go to the store to get a book, ran out of glue for homework. But hey! THey're kids, you can't tell parents no!

Meanwhile, I take an extra 15 minute break because of an emergency with my husband and I"m reminded we get TWO 15 minute breaks a day, not three, and to please make sure to fill out a time adjustment form. Because he's an adult.

It's bullshit.

I've even been VOLUNTEERED BY OTHER PEOPLE to work holidays because, again, I "don't have family" -- I guess my husband, inlaws, my family, etc are just chopped meat? "Oh but holidays don't mean as much to adults as they do to kids"

[Neema]

137. OMG. THIS!

When I worked in an office, I started scheduling trips over the holidays waaaaay in advance to avoid this bullshit.

[Heddi]

138. This year on January 1st

I'm like "this year I am taking off July 3rd-6th, easter weekend, Friday before and Tuesday after Memorial & Labor days, the week before and half week after T'Giving and The week before and half week after Xmas as well as NYE and NYD.

My coworkers are like OH WOW WHERE ARE YOU GOING?

nowhere. I'm just not working because y'all have every holiday scooped up for the next 18 years.

[kwassa]

130. CONGRATULATIONS SERENA WILLIAMS !!!!!

This thread is otherwise about next to nothing.

[frogmarch]

135. My genitalia have

fulfilled their mission! sounds better, doesn't it?

[TheFrenchRazor]

147. can't believe the # of responses here giving this a complete pass; it's no wonder women are still

in the dark ages in this country, never mind some other parts of the world.

[Coventina]

148. It's very disheartening, to be sure.

I especially love the comments that imply that if we find her comment hurtful, it's because we're racist.

[Neema]

151. Not just giving it a complete pass, but implying that anyone offended is

"butthurt" and has no right to be. It's like comments you'd find on a right-wing board.

[MuseRider]

152. I am not a fan of hers but

I think she is just all hormoned up and made a statement that is, of course, stupid.

You do not need to give birth to be a woman. You do not need children to be a woman. You do not need to have a vaginal birth to be a woman. I have even heard you are not a woman until you have had sex with a man......NOPE you do not need to have sex with anyone to become a woman.

She is in the end of a hormonal nightmare, is excited and said something stupid.

I have 2 children and hopefully will be a grandmother soon. If I did not I would be pretty unhappy seeing this in print ONE MORE TIME because this comes up way too often.

A woman is a woman when she says she is or is one by medical terms.

[MFM008]

154. I had a kid

My sister didnt.
No difference......

[rusty fender]

157. So, by Serena's definition of what it takes to be a real woman

then most Lesbians and Caitlin Jenner aren't real women.

[romanic]

158. Harmless comment.

Let her feel joyful for entering motherhood. Serena gets so much shit from all sides; nitpicking her words is bullshit. Seriously she or anyone should be free to express thier joy however they wish to say it.

Basically I'm in the LET HER BE HAPPY camp.