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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust had big argument with my wife about Trump
I told her Trump had disbanded his business committee because so many CEOs were resigning in protest.
She said Barack Obama was behind the white supremacist marches in Charlottesville. I needed to do my homework.It was an Obama fan who organized it, and Donald Trump had condemned the bigots. Basically anyone who was criticizing him was already against him. She said she's not a Trump fan, and I needed to see both sides.
I yelled at her and said there aren't two sides when we are talking about Nazis and my grandfather died fighting Nazis, and then I stormed off. I am so upset.
Phoenix61
(16,954 posts)I don't know what else to say.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Doodley
(8,976 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Doodley
(8,976 posts)very much to the right.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)trixie2
(905 posts)I can coexist with conservatives IF they are not racist. Racism to me is no go. If what you are saying she said is true, you may have married a racist.
Tikki
(14,539 posts)President Obama was the President of the United States for 8 years...very successfully as a President.
Tikli
Response to Doodley (Reply #4)
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Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Good call.
Say, do you think I need a new car? I'm due for an oil change, after all.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Doodley
(8,976 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)obamanut2012
(25,911 posts)What you wrote shows she does.
RestoreAmerica2020
(3,433 posts).....and other groups who are nonwhite, nonchristian, immigrants and refugees you need a new car, walk alone ...or just go to her and give her a great big hug, it must be terrible to stand in hate where you blame a black man for the sins of racist America. You are her light to a better America, you are her better half. Paz
Break time
(195 posts)still married to her..????
LexVegas
(6,005 posts)Justice
(7,182 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and some other boards.
Doodley
(8,976 posts)was in the car when we got to our neighborhood. She saw a man working in his front yard and said "unroll the window, I want to ask this man how many blacks are in the neighborhood." I have had quite a few arguments with her parents about their bigoted opinions over the years.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)MontanaMama
(23,242 posts)I'm so sorry.
Worst fight I ever had in 22 years of marriage was on election night. I was emotionally unraveling and my husband said I "needed to relax". I'll bet there are lots of us in this boat.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)When I saw Trump was likely to win, I filled with rage at people that voted for him, if I had met one I would have likely tried to hurt that person. But I moved on and now am really tough on jackasses, I used to hold my tongue.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)She is becoming more conservative than when we first met. I called her Archie Bunker last time we got into it. She does hate Trump so that is something we agree on.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)(stipulating you don't think it's true but go with it for a moment) how a lefty was able to fool the intellectually superior right wingers so easily that he was able to get them to show up in Virginia and force behave like the nazi scum they are. How embarrassing it is they were so easily fooled.
Doodley
(8,976 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)you taking your vows so seriously (up above in another comment), everybody deserves happiness. Please remember that.
lester94111
(81 posts)Why are you still married to a White Supremacist sympathizer?
Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)2) "She said she's not a Trump fan" Why would she feel the need to make that qualifier to her husband?
I'm very sorry to sound so cold. It just sounds really strange to me. Sounds more like an argument with a stranger in a coffee shop.
Doodley
(8,976 posts)it is strange because she insists we don't talk about politics.
Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)"she insists we don't talk about politics"
Doesn't seem to be working well.
I hope you both find sunshine moving forward.
Doodley
(8,976 posts)ever experienced or seen in my life. He has shattered so much of all I have come to value, but for her, he is a Republican President.
He needs to go!
WhiteTara
(29,676 posts)she is and you have to decide how much you are willing to sacrifice to be with a Nazi sympathizer.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)My advice.
Don't talk politics with her.
You may want to take a break yourself. If you're yelling at your wife you need a break.
And apologize for yelling at her.
Just my advice.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... link or story from a credible source of Obama being behind the marches ... it'll be from a winger site at best or nothing at all.
Then you can set a credible source as a starting point for political conversation.
Been there
stopbush
(24,378 posts)about Washington and Jefferson owning slaves. I replied, "they founded the country. The Confederacy tried to destroy the country. That's the difference. That's why there should be no monuments to the Confederacy or those who fought on the side of the Confederacy."
She got it, but this was a reminder that the pernicious and constant drumbeat of RW talking points can and do influence even those who are not generally receptive to that message. Whataboutism only works against the left because people want to feel they're open minded.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)spot on...and they are trying to do it again.....
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)"Founding" this country is no excuse, considering it was "founded" when slavery was legal all OVER the country. Indeed, we should hold ourselves accountable for all injustices starting with Columbus' slaughter of native Americans (actually, Caribbeans, but I digress).
As far as your spouse: Harper's Bazaar actually recommends all spouses divorce their Trump-supporting spouse. There can be no middle ground from now going forward: The ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY is, at the very least, complicit with white racism and are definitely guilty of white oppressive economic and societal policies.
Response to Fluke a Snooker (Reply #74)
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Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)If you have anything meaningful to say, SAY it. It sounds,though, as if you APPROVE of spouses remaining married to Trump voters, and in extension that you APPROVE of your own children being exposed to racist, xenophobic, or at best, ignorant attitude. If you are going to defend such marriages, then speak with intelligence, NOT with right-wing white supremacist-level buffoonery.
stopbush
(24,378 posts)native Caribbeans? I mean, right now, today.
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)...that has led, through the country's founding, its travails, until Charlottesville.
It is not a matter of holding myself accountable to a SPECIFIC incident. It is IMPERATIVE, though, that I hold myself accountable, as a white person, to the atrocities committed by my race, especially through Charlottesville.
womanofthehills
(8,584 posts)after 30 yrs of marriage. She now has herself a liberal Hispanic man and is happier than she has been in the last 3 decades.
LeftInTX
(24,560 posts)There are alot a people out there who really do feel it is "both sides" and Trump is just reinforcing it. The Republicans who are condemning the alt-right groups are listening to the racists actual words. They have actual experience with diverse populations. They know what is going on.
Not-so informed people who just flip on a TV may see guys with clean cut hair, khaki pants and tiki torches. If the not-so informed TV watchers (Fox News watchers) don't listen to the actual words it looks like a frat event or something. In this case it is the words that matter and the context in which all of this is taking place. People who are not well informed can dismiss it as "both sides".
(I hope I made sense!)
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)Website trying to blame everything on Obama. A black man is behind the organizing of White Supremacists. A black man whose wife's ancestors were slaves did this. A black man whose black daughters stand to be hurt by the monsters coming out of tge woodwork did this, according to her.
Man, I feel for you. But be gentle. Guide her gently to see the truth, because what she is saying makes zero sense.
Doodley
(8,976 posts)I appreciate your advice.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)A good nmarriage because of fuggin donald trump.
StarryNite
(9,366 posts)when she comes home from the snake pit.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)Sit down over a cup of coffee (or whatever you drink), and remember the words of Heather Heyer's mother. Paraphrasing badly here, but she said that we need to have those uncomfortable conversations. She's right.
Ask you wife her reasons for thinking as she does, and try to listen. Then, try to counter those with the REAL facts. Be prepared and be thorough. Don't get angry, but do be consistent.
Somehow, I would imagine doing this would take SEVERAL cups of coffee, too!!! Best of luck. You are doing something that I, myself, could not do. I could not live in the same house with someone who would not disavow all that is Trump.
True Dough
(17,096 posts)the Kool-Aid.
hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)Your clever is better than my clever today. Touche'!!!
Well done!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Response to Doodley (Original post)
shraby This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Scoopster
(423 posts)She claims you're not doing your homework, so ask her where she is getting her information from. This thing about Obama having planned anything here is total BS so it's clear she's either reading something that's deliberately misleading or someone is telling her this nonsense.
And honestly.. if this continues to be a source of argument between you then it will escalate & overpower any bond of love & marriage you both have, whether you want it to or not. I've seen enough relationships among my group of friends turn sour b/c of political BS over the past 10 years to know that it will.
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)My daughter and I CANNOT talk ..I don't know where she gets it..she is old enough to know better..we just don't talk anymore..that is what is sad..but I'm NOT backing down....
Right now, I am dealing with my hubby who is very sick, last three days have been a nightmare..he got dehydrated....and almost lost all control of body functions....I am exhausted, but strong and persistant...so NOT talking with daughter and her drama is a good thing.....
Agree to disagree with your wife, is about all the advise I can give you..when you get 30+ years down the road..you understand how to "come about"...if that is what you want....
BTW - your wife is totally wrong....needs guidance...
Doodley
(8,976 posts)come a time when things improve with your daughter. Thank you for your advice.
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)But walking..
As for my daughter...I will always love her..I just cannot entertain her point of view....she certainly didn't get it from me....
I am grateful for the kindness of those here at DU..thank you
spanone
(135,636 posts)she's extremely confused.
rzemanfl
(29,540 posts)Response to rzemanfl (Reply #30)
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rzemanfl
(29,540 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)He just LOVES those Robert E Lee statues, I guess?
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)Because I've been married a LONG time, and politics was one of the first subjects we ever talked about in our first dates.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)My wife and I got together the night of the million man march. We sat up all night watching it together and had our first kiss when I walked her to her car in the wee hours of the morning.
We have been on the same page politically as long as we have known each other.
Can't begin to imagine living with someone who would even try to make excuses for Trump.
20 years later I am proud of her every single day.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)That's terrific. You already knew you had that in common.
I wasn't sure my new girlfriend (future wife) shared those beliefs. When she opened up and I saw that we were on the EXACT same page politcally, I knew she was the one for me. It was like the heavens opened.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 17, 2017, 12:58 AM - Edit history (1)
We we're actually friends for months before that night. We were both moved that evening watching the March unfold and listening to the powerful speakers. There was something brewing between us before that but that bond with humanity that night broke the damn and we have been together ever since.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,147 posts)Floyd R. Turbo
(26,231 posts)politics.
Our only contentious issue is how frequently we should watch Meg Ryan films! 😏
procon
(15,805 posts)that level of stress and discouragement. I don't think I'd last too long if someone was quoting Trump and arguing that there were "two sides". Sure, one side hates, and the other is opposed to hate, and somehow their Trumpian logic is to pretend that both are somehow equally to "blame"? No, that just wrong headed.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,750 posts)Obama is behind those marches. And nothing from Fox can be submitted as evidence. Chances are, her "evidence" either comes from Fox, from simple unfounded claims by various unreliable sources, or were simply invented by someone with an ax to grind.
Ask her for further evidence that Trump condemned the bigots. Point out that his statements about "both sides being at fault" is simply incorrect.
Her notion of both sides is something along the lines of: Some people say the earth is round. Others say it is flat.
Those are not two sides with equal validity.
Anyway, back to your wife and her completely misinformed statements. Saying that anyone criticizing Trump is already against him shows that she is clearly only seeing one side. I find it hard to believe her statement that she's not a Trump fan when she's parroting such counter-factual claims.
Really, I could not remain married to someone like this, but that's just me. Fortunately for me I have very few relatives who have gone over to the dark side. And those I simply don't waste time with.
BamaRefugee
(3,476 posts)She thinks she's watching it in secret. When I asked her about it she says " I need to know both sides".
This isn't gonna last.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)So sorry. Fucking Fox.
Well I wish you no misfortune but I don't see how this marriage works out.
I just can't imagine.
How can a marriage survive hiding basic beliefs like that from each other.
I get it love is blind but love can also be fleeting.
I have been married for 20 years now and while we have had arguments over the years they were never on such a fundamental level.
Part of what keeps us together is our respect for each other and it would be difficult if not impossible for me to have that respect for someone that felt racism was excusable
.
I have loved far too many people over the years that look nothing like me to ever accept an ignorant view point like that.
I hope she can put that shit aside because if she can't it will drive you apart over time.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)You can survive it in the short term but over time it can be insidious and will end up destroying your relationship.
I hope the OP can work it out but I don't think long term it is going to go well.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)Lebam in LA
(1,344 posts)titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)But if my wife thought that way we wouldn't be married any longer.
Fluke a Snooker
(404 posts)This should not even be debatable. And make sure your take the kids and do NOT let your ex have unsupervised visits with your kids!
(By the way...do NOT fall for the lie that an Obama supporter started the entire thing. This was strictly started, and the vast majority of violence was committed by, Republican White Racists (sorry for the redundancy).
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)I have bernie supporters in my circle of friends and many of them also beleive trump has a point. This is a moment for education.
womanofthehills
(8,584 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)If you need medical or legal advice you can get lots of that too.
The Wielding Truth
(11,411 posts)explain it to you so it makes sense to you, because it is not what Nazi's are like. If this is an Obama plan then why is trump standing up for the Nazi's. He would be trying to make peace. The party of Lincoln should remember that Lincoln was a Union president and we fought against the Confederates to the death.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)wryter2000
(46,016 posts)I don't know how you can deal with such ignorance from someone so close and beloved.
Has she been watching Faux? Can you get someone else to speak to her? Otherwise you'll have to declare all politics off limits for discussion. You can always come here to talk to us.
Moostache
(9,895 posts)Your wife is just like the rest of the non-thinking drones that allow the right-wing media to infect their minds and short-circuit their reasoning...
1) If Obama was so bad, why the obsession with him still? Since he is apparently Obi-Wan Kenobi in the flesh, telling us all which droids we're after and whose papers we need to see, why doesn't he also infect the mind of Trump and make him resign already? He is after all one seriously powerful black man...I would even throw in some mocking sound effects too...but I am not a very mature person...
2) If Hillary was so bad, why the remaining obsession with her? She was a master criminal for 25 years, and so OBVIOUSLY GUILTY that they had a show trial for her at their Nuremberg warm-up rally in Cleveland last year...yet, despite ALL these crimes and ALL these conspiracies, she was NEVER found guilty of a damn thing by any of them or any courts at all...how damned incompetent ARE the GOP investigators? They make Clouseau look like Bond...
3) If she gets you angry to the point of having to leave, then keep going straight to a lawyer's office and file for divorce. Life's too short to allow someone that supposedly respects and loves you drive you to such levels of stress and anger.
mahatmakanejeeves
(56,897 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Has she said things like this before, or was this out of nowhere?
nini
(16,670 posts)If you can live with that - then so be it.
Only YOU can choose what side of history you want to be on.
I'd be out the door right after that argument.
lindysalsagal
(20,444 posts)Seriously: Just like you don't have to think exactly like her, she doesn't have to think exactly like you, and yelling about it only makes her defensive.
womanofthehills
(8,584 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,444 posts)And he's no test for rationality. You don't have the right to tell people what to believe, especially your spouse.
obamanut2012
(25,911 posts)wryter2000
(46,016 posts)When I married my husband he was pretty conservative. He'd voted for Reagan. He and his friends would sometimes make racist jokes. I told him calmly that was completely unacceptable. The very worst argument we ever had (I screamed and left the house and slept in our car) was when he referred to someone as a kike.
I'm not sure what all changed him, I think maybe my example of being kind to people and talking about how hurtful hearing racist, anti-Semitic, anti LGBT talk and jokes was for me.
But eventually, he came around to the point where I could allow him to fill out my absentee ballot, and sometimes he took positions more liberal than my own. Thing is he was an empathic person but had been brought up with bad ideas.
He died a Democrat. I still have his registration card.
I don't know if you can be as successful because I didn't have to deal with Fox loving family. But I would definitely suggest you put discussion of politics off-limits. Tell her it hurts you to argue about it. Of course, that means you can't bring up politics, either.
Good luck.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Decent person, demanding but decent. One day he used the term "Jap". I was stunned but because we were in a group, I did not call him out because that would have looked like I was showing him up. After the group broke up, I asked to speak with him privately and closed the door. I explained that the term he used was racist and hurtful. Although I am not a member of the group he insulted, he understood that I was offended by his action and had strong feeling about it. We had a pleasant conversation about the issue with him explaining his position, his dad fought in the pacific in WWII and used the term, he had'nt thought twice about it. He apologized and promised not to use it anymore, which he never did. I had enough experience with the guy to know he was not racist and I did not face negative consequences for calling him out.
I have a policy where if I hear anyone, including family use a racist term, I call them out privately. I know the terms but never use them in any type of conversation at all and will never use them.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)Not everyone will listen to reason, but some will.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That is why that term shocked and angered me.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)1. Is a racist? If yes run away
2. Voted or supported Republicans if yes run away
I can deal with the rest of it, but I won't sell my soul for "love"
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)I don't understand how anyone could marry anyone who doesn't share their core beliefs. These are conversations that usually happen almost immediately.
renate
(13,776 posts)It would break my heart to hear my spouse say those words. It really would. I'm so sorry.
beachjustice
(45 posts)Did Obama organize the violence too? No. The ralliers chose to instigate violence, and chose to use a rally as an excuse to intimidate others. It was painfully obvious from the beginning, and it was all done of their own free will. What the organizer told them to do is totally irrelevant.
People who buy these weak excuses need to look themselves in a mirror and realize how harmful it is to any society to have such deeply deluded and totally unfalsifiable conspiracy thinking. Unfalsifiable ideas have no predictive value. We can't effectively make sense of our world with them.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But looks like your marriage is over. That was not ignorance your wife displayed, her deep feelings came out. Your choice seem to be either become like her and stay married or get a divorce.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)That is what the huge pile of shit was spewing just today. It was no accident that she said the organizer of the march in Charlottesville was an Obama voter.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Be sincere. Listen to what she says and her sources. Read them and then you can have a rational discussion. Make it clear that is what you intend to do rather than just blow her off.
Probably, her source is her mother. That's a stumper; you will probably upset her if you point out her mother is a Nazi and a racist.
If she has sources, assemble some reasonable material and ask her to read it as you read her material. Then you two might reach some agreement.
StarryNite
(9,366 posts)it doesn't matter. It's who she is today, at this very point in time. My husband voted for Trump but even he doesn't get the Nazi mentality. His uncle died when the B-24 he was in was shot down during WWII, so he totally gets that. Take your wife to a veteran's cemetery and have her look at all the people who defended her right to be ignorant. They didn't all die in war but they served. ALL colors served. Get her a good history book, if she doesn't know how to read, read it to her! And for your own sanity, don't spend Thanksgiving in her parents' snake pit!
struggle4progress
(118,041 posts)Perhaps it is a good time to recall that you married her for some reason other her political savvy.
Be kind and patient.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Warpy
(110,913 posts)you need to keep politics off the table as an item of discussion.
Period.
She's imbibed deeply of the Kool Aid and anything that contradicts her will only make her defensive. You have to cut off any discussion at the outset, change the subject, and hope something non fatal wakes her the fuck up.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)Or an Obama supporter who organized it? How does she know this?
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)these are some very important things couples really need to discuss before marrying and having children.
1. religion
2. politics
3. racial issues
4. employment
5. in laws
6. social issues
gibraltar72
(7,486 posts)WTF!
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Trumpeteers make sure carrier pigeons take the latest deflective bullshit to all the popular reservoirs. There it is admired and spread further.
That's why it's ridiculous to believe Trump's approval rating will drop appreciably more. A huge percentage of his devotees won't react negatively to anything.
However, we should be prioritizing registration drives right now. Every college campus. Every logical venue. The percentage gain would be overwhelming. If all we do is react in astonishment and disgust every day it's wasted opportunity.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)crosinski
(403 posts)You know, your wife's values must have attracted you to her. That being said, they have nothing to do with you. You can still love her without liking all of her values, thoughts, and behaviors, although at some point these things do start to add up.
If you can live a life that allows both of you to put your values front and center, then you're golden!
If her values, and her family's, are overpowering yours in any way though, you have a big problem.
May I suggest you learn to honor each other's values. Honoring is different than agreeing 100%. It's simply acknowledging that fact that someone has put a lot of thought into a subject and has come to a conclusion based on their skills and life experience.
I think we probably all have values that we can't compromise though. Sadly, you might to have to think about that. Equally sadly, your wife may not be as emotionally 'attuned' to this as you are.
Good luck to you and your wife.
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)She doesn't see this thread...
mvd
(65,148 posts)I know I could not be married to a Republican. Depending on how much strain it puts on you, you may need to get away.
Luckily my immediate family doesn't have that problem. I argued with my parents about Hillary and Bernie - they were big Hillary supporters and I was an equally big Bernie supporter. But that's nothing like arguing with a Trump defender.
progressoid
(49,827 posts)First, you aren't marriage councelors. You don't know their whose history.
Second, this may not be a permanent point of view for her. Without going into specifics, my wife and I have differed on a couple of major issues in the past. We weathered the storm and are now on same path. People can change. Well, some people can. Not Donald Trump of course.