General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen will two murder charges, or manslaughter, for the Helicopter police be charged
against the nazis or the driver?
They were responding to a situation created by a crime in progress, these type of charges in this situation have been done before, so when?
janx
(24,128 posts)I have seen zero news as to the reason for the crash.
shraby
(21,946 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)is they are not in that heli if not for the crime and the results can be charged.
I know for sure CIVILLY that will happen, the victims will sue the city and recover hugely, thank you very much, but I think you can do this on a criminal basis also, but maybe one of our attorneys can chime in.
City will be sued, good or bad, for not creating a safe place for the protesters to protest, knowing full well this could happen.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)The mere fact that they had been monitoring the situation when the helicopter crashed isn't enough for criminal liability because the but-for test (proximate cause) applies only in civil cases. If the helicopter crashed because of a mechanical malfunction, any lawsuit would have to be against the mechanic who made a faulty repair or failed to discover a defect, or against the manufacturer of a defective part. The officers' families can't sue the state (their employer) because the sole remedy for the negligence of an employer is workers' compensation.
There is also the issue of governmental immunity. The nuances will depend on the laws and court precedents of the state, but in general, government entities are not liable for harm arising from discretionary acts - that is, decisions made by the government based on policy determinations. For example: If a city council decides not to put up a stoplight at a busy intersection because it's too expensive, the city can't be sued for that decision by someone who is injured because there was no stoplight. However, the city could be sued if they put up a stoplight and didn't maintain it adequately and someone was injured because it didn't work - that's what's called a ministerial act.
So, if a discretionary decision had been made that the officers should patrol the area, the city/state would be immune from suit.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)It's going to be impossible to make a case that the Nazis fucks are to blame simply because piloting a helicopter was normal work for these two men.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)because specific intent (mens rea) is required - meaning that somebody would have committed a criminal act with the intent that the helicopter would crash. The troopers had been patrolling the area from the air and apparently the helicopter had a mechanical malfunction (the NTSB is investigating), but that wouldn't give rise to criminal charges any more than in a situation where a squad car on its way to a crime scene had a brake failure resulting in an accident, or a police officer on his way to arrest a suspect fell down some stairs. And you'd have to identify a particular person or several people who did something with the intent to cause the helicopter crash and to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Even involuntary manslaughter wouldn't be provable under these facts.
In any event, although the helicopter had been monitoring the scene it had just left the area and had begun to fly to another assignment.
Unless there's evidence that someone shot the helicopter down, there's no basis for criminal charges.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)proximately caused the crash - a mechanic or a part manufacturer.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)The police were doing surveillance of the city, which is a not uncommon law enforcement tactic. Assuming a mechanical failure, Their death was not a direct result of an unlawful act by anyone protesting.