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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow Bout This, Tina Fey: Give Us (Black People) the Sheet Cake, and You Go Confront the White Women
http://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/how-bout-this-tina-fey-give-us-black-people-the-she-1797989932How Bout This, Tina Fey: Give Us (Black People) the Sheet Cake, and You Go Confront the White Women Who Voted for Trump
Of course, her sheet-caking bit came several hours before Panama Jackson published a piece here, in which hes considering ending his relationship with his own mother because of her abhorrent views. These are the types of conversations and confrontations white people need to have with other white people (and themselves) if theyre sincere about attempting to combat white supremacy. We (black people) have done enough. Well continue to do what were doing, but there are limits. Because there are people well just never reach.
So maybe the next time Tina Fey is in the cake-buying mood, she should give the cake to us instead, and then go and talk to the people we cant. And when shes done, she can come back and get a slice.
greeny2323
(590 posts)I understand and am sympathetic with the sentiment, but IMHO this is an overreaction to a comedy bit. Comedy is difficult. It has to be biting while trying not to be tone deaf.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)Critique is always important for any performer, so they can do better next time.
Demsrule86
(68,799 posts)or KKK Trump.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)And if you think Damon Young hasn't attacked the GOP or Trump, well...I guess I don't know what to tell you.
Baitball Blogger
(46,777 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 12:26 PM - Edit history (1)
She could have made her points and deflected criticism if she had put a little thought into it. She could have tried to look like she was playing a role. It wouldn't be difficult. There are a number of white people I know who aren't overt racists or white supremacists, but they're still trying to look for the balanced news between what happened in Charlottesville. THAT's the character comedians should be zoning in on. Clueless because they live in mental gated communities. None of them deal with daily racial strife. They have succeeded precisely because their mind isn't burdened by the obstacles the original post talks about. They aren't held back because of situational awareness.
Demsrule86
(68,799 posts)Not with these racist scum bags...you march with Nazis...you are a Nazi.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)HAB911
(8,946 posts)Link to tweet
Privilege is saving confederacy statues because they're 'historic' but bulldozing through ancient sacred sites & artifacts for pipelines.
TheBlackAdder
(28,253 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
Tutu
TheBlackAdder
(28,253 posts)Intead of building on their work, as a positive, they critique it as a negative, with hampers participation.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)on how to better match intent and content. Most performers welcome the chance to do that; here's hoping Tina Fey does.
TheBlackAdder
(28,253 posts)I know what you are saying, but instead of critiques, add to the discussion in a positive way so that those who participate and those who observe the actions of those commenting feel empowered and enthused to join in and continue helping.
When negativisms and critiques are levied, public participation is diminished.
You don't see Republicans very often tear down or critique other Republicans--they add to others comments.
===
If Dems want to start winning back some seats, they have to stop this incessant in-fighting, where people feel empowered to pick on others who are trying to do their best to help. It's always easy to play Monday morning quarterback. And, there is only so much that can be addressed in a few short minutes. So, anyone who wants to pick apart anything can. How come they didn't talk about this, or go into detail about that?
It's tiring to see this picayune level of griping about those who are trying to help.
What is Tina Fey's impetus to continue making comments if even the Dems 'critique' her?
.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)look like?
TheBlackAdder
(28,253 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)moda253
(615 posts)POC have been villainized, devalued, locked up, beaten, held back, un-funded and so so so much ore forever in this country. Speak up and keep speaking up, roll up your sleeves and go to work. And you will earn the trust.
I know people here probably have been getting involved for a long time but we have an unbelievable opportunity RIGHT NOW to make a massive shift in how our society interacts with each other if we get down and dirty together and let our actions show each other where we are.
In addition to protesting these groups, the GOP, and our own parties, we should also be protesting companies, corporations, and businesses to get equal pay for workers not only for just POC but for women workers as well. As a white man newcomer to realizing my own ignorance as far as white privilege and sexism that society beat into me, I still have a lot to learn despite how well intentioned I am.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)tblue37
(65,538 posts). . . the last time we let Nazis scream into the empty air, it ended up in a fucking genocide.
I also found this comment on that article:
Isnt responding to hate and violence just called self-defense?
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)Disagreeing with Fey's "stay home" line does not mean you don't like comedy. She had me up until then though. I thought she was hilarious....until she told us to stay home. That line did not appear to be in jest.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)comfort to Trump or Nazis. It's OK to talk about what was problematic in the bit, such advocating staying home and eating cake while the 6'4" black man in drag does the heavy lifting, as if sexual minorities of color aren't some of the most vulnerable populations out there.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Republicans win elections by lying and cheating. But all the moral advancements in this country come from us liberals. It's because we call each other out and counter each other. It's what advances the national discourse.
.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)I posted the Isha Aran piece Young references, and it got hidden.
emulatorloo
(44,268 posts)That's a dumb thing to say.
A reply from your Aran thread, with the relevant paragraph from her article:
---------
11. So Tina is 'both-sidesing" like tRump???!!!
This is the most far fetched piece of flawed reasoning I've come across.
Im sure Feys hearts in the right place, but it just goes to prove once again that even liberals can fall into the trap of assigning the violence that white supremacists cause to the people trying to stand against itthe flip side of the very same rhetoric Donald Trump was spouting earlier this week.
------------------
BTW nobody told you to shut up.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)AllyCat
(16,263 posts)And a small attempt to put myself in the position of POC (which is never really possible), I realize it is not. I like your OP and the links it contains. Thank you.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)White people lose nothing when they listen to POC. Nothing. And sometimes they gain -- knowledge, perspective, new ideas. Thank you for sitting with the info in the OP, and your response.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,135 posts)White people know better than anyone else and know what is best!
When will the rest of the world get that through their thick, non white heads?
sarcasm
Sgent
(5,857 posts)to stay at home and eat cake? Think about it, one of the best satirists of our generation, and a very well known liberal, was making fun of people who stay at home and eat cake while complaining about trump.
She was making fun of over privileged assholes who talk a good game and do nothing.
Music Man
(1,184 posts)Jesus Fucking Christ, she's on our side. Her bit, which has been viewed millions of times now, called out the lame white boys who claim this is their country.
This is what Tina Fey does. Self-effacing humor about her love of food, being rough around the edges, and not having her life together while still making political points. I get the disagreement about tactics to fight neo-Nazis, but to turn the firing squad on Tina Fey, who is an ally, is 100% ridiculous. It was a great bit with great lines, particularly about the double standard with how we treat Native American protesters.
When I meet people with no sense of humor, all sorts of alarm bells go off for me, no matter if they're on the left or right.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)regularly tone-deaf about race, and it's kind of a shame she doesn't work hard to be better. I'm also not sure why people think critiquing her means we don't understand humor. She is funny. She could be better when it comes to her jokes. It's fine for white people to feel like they just want to sit at home and eat cake rather than doing the hard, scary, sometimes dangerous work of confronting Nazis in the streets or their loved ones at home. It's even fine to joke about it among themselves. But who does it help when centralized, mainstream humor says that fighting racism is harrrrrrd and maybe this weekend should be dedicated to sheet cake?
Your post sounds like a Putin move. Divide the people. Tina fey has always, always been a friend to regular people of all colors. Ignore the assholes is what I got out of it. Just because cable so called news decides to follow a small group of assholes and presents it as being common does not make it so. My white Dad who fought the Nazis for the world would take issue with your white people stay home claim.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)It's okay, everyone's fave is problematic in some way. But it's important to see where they're problematic, talk about it, and help them do better.
pwb
(11,314 posts)This post is off base and more like this and you will be ignored.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)Let me know so I can all the sooner taste the savor of your steely ignore.
pwb
(11,314 posts)Keep that in mind when you try to put a color on this.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)pwb
(11,314 posts)How many wars have what you call white privileged people fought for your rights. Two.......please try and figure out who your friends are. Too much whiskey makes people mean.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)If they double down, why should I stick around?
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)as you bear the white man's burden.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,135 posts)R E A L L Y ?
Jesus, didnt take long to figure you out.
You called Whiskey a Putin person, FUCK THAT
Nailed it.
Music Man
(1,184 posts)The joke about a 6'4" black drag queen beating a white supremacist is about poetic justice, not about the inherent characteristics of being black. I suspect most people take it that way. I was amazed to see a Twitter post on an article saying something along the lines of, "Not all drag queens are black, Tina Fey," as if she wouldn't know this. Just a silly backlash.
Tina Fey is far from the first person I've seen advocate not giving neo-Nazis coverage. I think they're very wrong, but I'm able to disagree about tactics without jumping to "she's tone deaf on race." She is a COMEDIAN! This is how she comments on things. Reminds me of people who would criticize Jon Stewart with "Oh yeah, smart ass? Why don't you try doing some actual journalism if you think it's so easy. WE'RE actually in the game trying to do something--you have the luxury of just making jokes." It's what Fey, Stewart, and other liberal commentators do.
Tina Fey should "go talk to white women" about this? Where? In what venue? At a luncheon? A PTO meeting? She is an actress, and television is her medium, and to de-legitimize her mode of commentary is incredibly presumptuous.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)The joke plays on the trope that large black men are inherently brutes. It's pretty tone deaf after the optics of black men being beaten in parking garages at Charlottesville. We also know how black men are policed.
Well, sure. It upholds white hegemony, so most people would want to see it that way.
I didn't jump there; I went there after seeing her be awkward about race again and again and again. If you're going to use race in your jokes, educate yourself.
"Don't mind Aunt Mildred. That's just how she is."
Wait, I thought she was just a comedian? Tina Fey is a "liberal commentator" if you consider the middle-class white woman demographic to be the definition of "liberal."
She should talk to white women in her medium, just like she did. But she should examine the content. That's all. She has a large audience of people who love her and see themselves in her. They deserve better than being called to the action of eating sheet cake.
Music Man
(1,184 posts)Ultimately, with regards to race relations and the status of neo-Nazis, you and I want the same things. Let's please not lose sight of that.
But remember that Tina Fey's humor has long revolved around making fun of her emotional immaturity, overeating, etc. Much of her "30 Rock" persona involved her being a liberal but not always being informed. She is quite self-aware, and her comedy is marked with nuanced layers.
Anyone who thinks she was LITERALLY advocating that people should only shout into cake to confront racism needs Closed Captioning for the Humor Impaired. What I don't understand is why you and others immediately attribute her joking about ignoring neo-Nazis to her whiteness (and thus white privilege) instead of her having a color-less belief that the best way to snuff these people out is by not giving them oxygen. If you are of the belief that sunshine is the best disinfectant, then that's a specific disagreement about political tactics. One might say, "If you were black, you'd know that we can't afford to ignore neo-Nazis. It's literally life and death." The implication is that Tina Fey can take it or leave it that neo-Nazis hold rallies, when an honest person would know that she wants exactly the same thing, which is to see these people go away. In that 7-minute bit, there was one underlying point: "Fuck these racist white boys." Someone holding that view must have some enlightenment about their white privilege.
If you read the comments on some of the YouTube videos, they're filled with Trump voters who believe the "Antifa" are violent, Tina Fey is not funny, SNL is filled with liberal pussies, blah blah blah. They apparently get that they're the object of Tina Fey's scorn. Fey seems to have pissed off Nazis and the professional outrage machine. That's like the boss level of a comedy video game.
But perhaps a lesson will be learned, and Tina Fey will come to see that a much more meaningful way to change history is blogging on TheRoot.com.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,776 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 11:38 PM - Edit history (1)
but that doesn't mean their perception is infallible.
I don't agree, for instance, that the joke about the 6'4' black drag queen "plays on the trope that large black men are inherently brutes."
I took it to be playing on the notion that there very well could be a 6'4" drag queen who'd be willing and able to kick some white supremacist ass. And that it would be kind of poetic justice and especially annoying to a white supremacist who most likely would be particularly humiliated by that.
And the baseless suggestion that she needs to be told that not all drag queens are black that has been made further points to misinterpretation.
I note also that you seem to be suggesting in this thread that Fey satirizing this subject in the same character as she's satirized other subjects somehow invalidates or diminishes the satire, which is is incorrect. Using a particular character to comment on various topics is a staple successful of satire.
You've said you get that Fey's routine was satire, but not good satire. Plenty disagree with you there.
You asked, "Why do so many people need Tina Fey's sheetcaking bit to not be problematic? What do you lose if it is?"
Maybe nothing. On the other hand, it might diminish comedians' willingness to ridicule white supremacists if every routine is expected to be funny as well as flawless and to provide excellent advice for how to solve a problem. In times like these, it's especially helpful to have the release valve of laughter. There were so many hilarious jibes at the Reich Wing in Feys routine, despite whatever failings may be found.
If not for comedians, my personal favorites being Stephen Colbert and Seth Meyers, allowing me to avoid total despair at the state or our nation, I'm really not sure I'd still be alive.
Edited to add: Not sure what it proves, if anything, but apparently many people brought sheet cakes to the Boston counter protest. For instance, this guy.
https://twitter.com/search?q=sheet%20cake%20boston&src=typd
obamanut2012
(26,183 posts)She was being satiric on a satirical show. She is a UVA alum and has stated how that makes this even more upsetting to her, because it feels like a home invasion, hemce on UVA shirt duirng the segment. She is a strong progressive and has campaigned for many progressives. Since Dolt 45's election, and even prior to that, she has called out white people. SINCE the election, she has specifically called out the 53% of white woman who voted for Trump, and has done so very effectively.
And, to reiterate: IT WAS SATIRE ON A SHOW ABOUT SATIRE ON A SEGMENT ABOUT NEWS AND SATIRE ON THAT SHOW.
Tina Fey is one of the good guys, and is beyond "woke" on this subject. All of these attacks on her are absolutely bonkers, and yes, dividing.
Attack the enemy, not a strong ally.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)What is smart or incisive about acting like a privileged white woman who is sad because her alma mater is besmirched and it's all just too much and #selfcare so she'll eat some cake to feel better? That's what got us in this trouble in the first place!
obamanut2012
(26,183 posts)It isn't my fault you cannot understand satire. Go educate yourself and quit attacking allies.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)differs from her regular persona. I'd love to understand how I'm wrong. Walk me through it like I'm five. I love good satire, and if it's really that sharp I can't see it, I want to know exactly where I lost the narrative.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)Americans, as a culture, don't understand irony. It's about exaggerating something so beyond the pale, that it clearly isn't to be taken seriously.
I think it is because, in the land of make-believe(aka USA), EVERYTHING is possible. No exaggeration is necessary.
.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)Her stay home request did not appear to be in jest. Did you think she was kidding about staying home?
Baitball Blogger
(46,777 posts)TNNurse
(6,931 posts)She was doing political humor, she was not doing a serious personal challenge on how to deal with this mess.
Yes, I am white, yes I laughed, no I did not critique every word.
I appreciate those who found fault and understand their sensitivity but wish they could have enjoyed the humor more.
We need humor, we need it to get through this.
She is a performer, not an elected official.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)
than "play" a cute, awkward-sarcastic white woman who loves food and doesn't want to rock the boat TOO hard. Next you'll be telling me that her joke about Sally Hemings was just a joke and we should lighten up.
Demit
(11,238 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)not Sally Hemmings.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)"Who's that hot light-skinned girl over by the butter churn" holds nothing but malice, especially coming out of a rich white person's mouth.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)Most performers are interested in how they could do better.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)Has Fey taken to social media to clarify that she DOES want people counterprotesting white supremacists?
obamanut2012
(26,183 posts)She was being satiric on a satirical show. She is a UVA alum and has stated how that makes this even more upsetting to her, because it feels like a home invasion, hemce on UVA shirt duirng the segment. She is a strong progressive and has campaigned for many progressives. Since Dolt 45's election, and even prior to that, she has called out white people. SINCE the election, she has specifically called out the 53% of white woman who voted for Trump, and has done so very effectively.
And, to reiterate: IT WAS SATIRE ON A SHOW ABOUT SATIRE ON A SEGMENT ABOUT NEWS AND SATIRE ON THAT SHOW.
Tina Fey is one of the good guys, and is beyond "woke" on this subject. All of these attacks on her are absolutely bonkers, and yes, dividing.
Attack the enemy, not a strong ally.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)So if she really meant that line to be sarcasm and in fact meant to send a message to NOT stay home but to show up and protest white supremacists, I'm sure you could find a statement from her saying that...
Demit
(11,238 posts)She said, "Do what you do with a thoughtful movie that has two female leads: stay home."
So do you think she really wants that, too? For people to not go to her movies?
She was being sarcastic. The whole sketch was as biting as could be. The comfort food eating (the bland cake, the grilled cheese sandwich) kind of softened the whole scathing diatribe because it was visually humorous. She was able to get in a hell of a lot of jabs at bad things & bad people.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)I thought the rest of her bit was funny and spot on. I just didn't like that line.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)WE are the side with the sense of humor, remember!
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)A lot of us with good senses of humor just did not find the call to inaction (and the rape joke) funny:
Treat these rallies this week as you would the opening of a thoughtful movie with two female leads: dont show up. Let these morons scream into the empty air. I love you Charlottesville, and as Thomas Jefferson once said, Whos that hot light-skinned girl over by the butter churn?
For a joke to be a joke, it has to actually be funny. This bit was not.
http://jezebel.com/tina-feys-vexing-self-parody-1797975376
Fey's barbs at Trump and the militias were indeed funny. But the call to inaction and the rape joke, even if meant as "satire," were not funny. Not everything Tina Fey does is funny. I can live with that. Why can't you?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)I have a very good sense of humor. That's why I didn't find those particular jokes funny. Laughing at everything doesn't mean you have a good sense of humor.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Please don't think that just because you're not amused, that everyone else isn't also.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)It's all completely dependent on the audience.
ismnotwasm
(42,023 posts)She starts out with a tongue in cheek apology about how she comes out and sits by the white guy "because it shows her best side" ("I'm not buying that" the black comedian says) "We stole it" she said talking about the land America stands on.
Even the cake itself seemed an ironic choice--white women buying cake, ala the very misquoted Marie Antoinette, eating it without pleasure, just shoveling it in, not bothering to taste it.
So I also understand the criticism. It was an inside joke.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)bombing Syria. Let's just all eat cake while the world goes to shit.
I admit I was distracted when I watched it. Love Tina Fey but didn't think it was her best work and haven't really analyzed it.
ismnotwasm
(42,023 posts)It's receiving a lot of what I nonsense criticism from the left--I saw it as irony, but totally understand how it could backfire.
IronLionZion
(45,637 posts)I love Tina Fey and her heart is in the right place. But people who want to go protest are going to do it regardless of what a celebrity comedienne says in a comedy skit.
Here in DC there are protestors outside dipshits hotel every damn day. Just about every weekend there are people marching between the Capitol and White House. They won't be deterred even by the fact that he leaves on weekends.
ismnotwasm
(42,023 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)But not many.
NNadir
(33,585 posts)obamanut2012
(26,183 posts)And SNL has a segment that satirizes and skewers current events and the news. This shaming tactic is best known when Jonathan Swift the best way to take care of poor children is to eat them.
Fey was being satiric on a satirical show. She is a UVA alum and has stated how that makes this even more upsetting to her, because it feels like a home invasion, hemce on UVA shirt duirng the segment. She is a strong progressive and has campaigned for many progressives. Since Dolt 45's election, and even prior to that, she has called out white people. SINCE the election, she has specifically called out the 53% of white woman who voted for Trump, and has done so very effectively.
And, to reiterate: IT WAS SATIRE ON A SHOW ABOUT SATIRE ON A SEGMENT ABOUT NEWS AND SATIRE ON THAT SHOW.
Tina Fey is one of the good guys, and is beyond "woke" on this subject. All of these attacks on her are absolutely bonkers, and yes, dividing.
Attack the enemy, not a strong ally.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)be ashamed by what they do to minorities. It took a white women dead to even move the conversation. If Deandre Harris was the fatal victim of that weekend , i am sorry but there would have been outcry but i do not believe the same as there is now .In fact I am guessing a lot of people do not even know about Harris.
The media would have let you know he once was arrested for smoking pot in HS
If this had been a BLM march and 2 police officers died doing crowd control I would never hear the end of how they died because of a BLM march crowd is my guess. I havent heard much about them at all perhaps at the familys' request
They just want us all gone and with that, there is only so much we can influence media and mindset
Also I will say again, that there were" good Germans "who came out of thier house and watched store owners and neighbors taken away to a concentration camp and then went back inside and had dinner. Others delighted in the thought of bombs over England
Call these people out at least when they are talking to you we can not survive a democracy with eye rolls in another directionor do nothing
write a letter , call officials but I guess many are so sick of identity politics that they would rather let the identity of this country fall in the toilet
So many I know are calling it the let them eat cake talk.
I have seen a lot of cake eating whites already but I also saw a lot of white males in protest last weekend and unfortunately many were injured and of course the death of an innocent women so I applaud the white people engaged enough to know they cant stay home and see this happen to their country. These are patriots and the defenders of good.
Cake eating cowards are not but hey lets have a party with a sheet cake and some wine , let all the girls know to bring a side dish it will be fun
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Best response I have seen in this thread - so far (I hope).
AllyCat
(16,263 posts)When I talk to people about that, they have no clue to what event I am referring. None.
tavernier
(12,416 posts)If you really think "confronting white women who voted for trump" with lectures and I told you so's from other white women "who have the privilege of access" will make an iota of difference, then you must be a man.
Tina Fey talks to women with humor and nuance. Not all political change has to come with a hammer on the head... sometimes a rubber chicken (or sheet cake) is more effective.
NotASurfer
(2,157 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 12:01 PM - Edit history (1)
At the end of the skit, a disorganized sad pile was left.
I mean, as long as we're overanalyzing a comedy skit...
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)but then, I'm old school.
H2O Man
(73,694 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Oh well.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Seemed like the point to me.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)seems like kind of the opposite effect of what a person would want, no?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Which is often the case with satire.
It seems to me that anyone who is buying sheet cake is acting exactly like the sort of person Tina's bit was mocking.
OnDoutside
(19,986 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)And that maybe she should ponder and recalibrate?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I think there are a lot of well-made satirical pieces that just didn't land because they went over people's heads. I am not sure that the fault is with the satirist in those cases, but perhaps it is.
If a large number of people don't understand a joke, does that, by definition, mean the joke wasn't good? Maybe so.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)A distinction without a difference, I suppose, but an important one in this context.
BumRushDaShow
(129,981 posts)And when I did watch that skit, I will admit that it was a bit awkward. However seeing the OP's discussion point, I would then conclude that the skit may have been taken too "literally" vs what I think it was trying to get across (by gradually moving the whole thing along into completely over-the-top territory) - a means to present a "reverse psychology" argument by mocking some generic "suburban white women" and their stereotypical responses when this subject comes up.
I suppose instead of a sheet cake, she could have been shown plowing through pints of Ben & Jerry's (or the big one in the past - Haagen Dazs) or perhaps a large plate of snickerdoodles or jar of nutella. It's hard to mock oneself when it comes to such serious subject matter, and especially if it is done with the format used for the segment, but the best of them can usually pull it off.
I would also say that given the past 8 months have literally provided daily outrages to select from, the SNL crew has its work cut out for it trying to stay right up to date with current events, including getting a skit written and rehearsed, often a day or two in advance of the show airing.
forgotmylogin
(7,540 posts)I got the idea that she was doing a satirical instruction to disaffected white people who can justify (in this case stress-eat) their way through most important issues. "Order yourself a sheet cake with an American Flag on it..." but showed that eating the cake wasn't helping because she was screaming through it and making a mess...that the issue was bigger and the normal "methods" of being disaffected don't work in this case. In a sense she was displaying having a catharsis by taking out her anger on the cake, and mocking these people "treat the rally like you would a thoughtful movie with two female leads; don't go". In a sense, the cake was fueling her anger and rage at the entire issue and the way some people treat it - this time the band-aid wasn't sticking.
This is a common ironic comedy form they use on the show - the instructions that spiral out of control due to the emotion of the instructor.
And, the joke about her "best side" is based in reality: When Fey was a young child, she was walking down the street and had her cheek randomly sliced open by a passing assailant who did this and kept walking for no reason that she can discern, leaving her with a disfiguring scar near her lip. That's why in most setups, she is always blocked so when she turns to look at the other person, the right side of her face is to the camera.
(I think the jump in sheet cake sales might have just been a fluke in that seeing her destroy it made people want a piece of birthday cake.)
BumRushDaShow
(129,981 posts)The term "stress-eat" was one I was trying to come up with when mentioning tearing through "pints of Ben & Jerry's" or a "plate of snickerdoodles". And having the routine go over-the-top with the devouring of the cake as the "problems" got worse and worse, was the biggest clue.
Sometimes it's easier to describe the phenomena than to actually find a way to illustrate it. I suppose in the past, the gag might have also used "apple pies", which were at one time an old "suburban thing". Nowadays it's "sheet cakes". Of course the most classic "stress-eat" routine was Lucille Ball's -
As a sidenote, Tina Fey grew up right outside of here (Philly), so she is much-discussed locally.
forgotmylogin
(7,540 posts)I think she was a major part of the revitalization of SNL, and it was during her stint that women were allowed to fully participate in the comedy and lead sketches instead of being props outside of an occasional breakout character.
BumRushDaShow
(129,981 posts)She and Amy Poehler brought SNL back to the days of Jane Curtain, Gilda Radner, & Laraine Newman.
I do know that given the current political environment, the show has plenty of material to work with, but we have seen SNL have it's ups and downs over the past 40 years in any case. They just have to try to keep the writing fresh.
beastie boy
(9,571 posts)Some of you may remember, and others may look up, how victims of AIDS were treated in the early 1980s. Because they were predominantly gay in an era when "gay" was an insult, they were shunned, ignored and openly disrespected by the society at large. Until the straight celebrities stepped in and lent their conspicuous voices to their defense.
This is not happening, at least not to the degree that would make a decisive difference, with white celebrities taking a stand against racism.
I don't see the OP dissing Tina Fey. Rather, I see this as an invitation. An invitation for Tina Fey and other white celebrities to step beyond the safety of ambiguously sarcastic comedy routines and into decisive, unambiguous support of full equality for all Americans. This is no rocket science.
History shows us that they can do, and have done, better. All it takes is the courage to leave white privilege behind and, as naked as they (we) might feel without it, do the right thing.
BallardWA
(97 posts)This was brilliant satire. Tina Fey said more about our the current state of our nation whilst shoving cake into her mouth than any pundit has had the balls to speak with a mouth full of just teeth.
mulsh
(2,959 posts)all that funny but it's on a national TV show and it's a fact that the vast majority of people out here will not be counter protesting or confronting Nazis and white racists en mass. I get how people can see this as a graphic example of clueless white privlige and I suspect that was part of Ms. Fay's intention.
After over 40 years of participating in every major protest in the Bay Area (starting with Free Huey and the Oakland Induction Center in the 60's) I can no longer physically march or shake my fists in big crowds.
If you're like me and have age, physical or geographical reasons why you can't participate in counter protest you might consider donating to the Souther Poverty Law Center. They have a consistent and successful record of identifying, litigating and even shutting down assorted hate groups.
Here's a link if you'd like to make a donation.
[link:https://www.splcenter.org/support-us|
stonecutter357
(12,698 posts)ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)I am a white woman with a biracial son. The piece by Panama Jackson was heartbreaking. Thank god I have a wonderful relationship with my son and we see eye to eye on politics.
As for Tina Fey, you are right. a lot more needs to be done white people to white people. So many live in their safe suburban bubbles and don't even know it.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,183 posts)Irony. Which passes over us in a fit of righteous anger.
Anger is the #2 Sin. Pride being #1.
leftstreet
(36,119 posts)MrModerate
(9,753 posts)LudwigPastorius
(9,257 posts)True, regardless of the color of the one attempting to persuade.
Obviously, we should confront racism whenever we see it, but it has been my experience that I don't have some extra ability to change a bigot's twisted mind because we're both white.
Some people are just fucked, and cannot be unfucked.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Enquiring minds want to know. My bf is black. I don't know of any place she can't go that I can. There are places that she wouldn't WANT to go or feel comfortable. Same with me.
Baitball Blogger
(46,777 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)So..what places do I look for that won't have any black women, but will have white women? What kind of places are we talking about? Retail businesses, or car servicing companies, or movie theaters? Gyms? Parks? Not being sarcastic...but really want to know. I've been around to places here and haven't noticed any place that black women can't go.
Baitball Blogger
(46,777 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 20, 2017, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)
(This opinion piece is a rework from a response I made to a fellow DUer.)
I have lived in Central Florida since the late seventies, so I'm just shy of forty years of observations. The last 23 years have been inside a red county, in a community that is 90% white. You would think that Democratic strategists would want to know what goes on in red counties, in order to improve their outreach, so I hope this gives them something to work with.
If I had to pick one word to describe the social structure that influences everything in the county, including the way the criminal justice agencies decide where they focus their resources, that word would be "protectionist." Makes sense, doesn't it? Conservatives want to protect a culture where they are always dominant. So, shouldn't we examine their social structure to see how they manage to get away with some of the most outrageous maneuvers that would land most people in jail. If nothing else, my reflections reinforce the view that white, entitled communities exist and thrive.
Let's start with the private organizations that have direct access to elected officials. It isn't uncommon to find more than one elected official showing up at meetings for these private clubs because many become members of the same organizations. This is where private and public agendas can merge, and not always in the best way.
Especially for those clubs that require sponsorship prior to membership, a minority member would already be vetted before they join. However, once they get in, if they express progressive ideas, or show a low tolerance for good buddy decision-making, they can discover the incredible shrinking effect that small towns have. What may happen is that a select core of individuals will be pulled into private side meetings for further lobbying. In my town, breakfast meetings are a popular choice. These people are indoctrinated to become "ambassadors." "Ambassadors" is a popular term around here, and, at least for me, it sends up a red flag because my community was stung by this system.
Essentially, by the time the formal meetings begin, the ambassadors will push whatever meme is desired. Even if you understand that they are following an illegal, or foolhardy objective, you are going to be shouted down. Worse, you'll become that one person that gets ostracized and serve as an example for others of what happens to anyone who tries to provide another view. In this case, minorities of conscience have the unhappy choices of turning into a minority prop, or a megaphone for bad ideas.
In my community, an example of what could go wrong occurred in the nineties. The City reached into the local Rotary Club to try to appease a core group of people who were behind the resistance to the city's objectives and programs. Not that the City, didn't deserve criticism, but the merging of these two factions resulted in a new power structure that was predictable. Think "Animal Farm."
The ambassadors spread misinformation that spread into the various HOAs. To this day, they were able to use the chaos they created to their advantage. Which is my my community is still deep in the rabbit hole. Today, the HOA board doesn't even properly notice board meetings anymore. Complete shut-down.
Now, if you do manage to be a particular thorn at their side, it's an easy matter in small towns to defame and box out the particularly bothersome person, where it really is hard to go anywhere, including local restaurants without getting a dirty look.
No problem, though, I just go to the franchises located in the next town over. But, I still can't figure out how the local business community can maintain the mutually exclusive objectives of keeping their insular clientele happy AND grow new business. It mystifies me. I sometimes wonder if they keep track of the money lost to the community when children grow up and settle down in other states. If an average wedding costs $45,000, I wonder how much money is lost to the community when brides prefer to set roots in more agreeable climates?
The other problem that minorities have is that we get targeted when we walk into businesses as customers. This happened to me when I tried to sell old gold jewelry to a jewelry store. The jewelry person made a racial assumption about me that undercut me as a customer. I never had sold jewelry before, so I was totally unprepared for what happened. I had a hunch that something had gone wrong and that I didn't get a fair value for the necklaces and bracelets I had brought in, but I couldn't prove it. Just had a feeling. As I left wondering what just happened, the girl followed me to the parking lot and asked, "Is this what you and your friends do?" I'm guessing she thought I was a cleaning lady and that I could get her more gold for her. I was stunned. Most of the jewelry was collected over a lifetime, and other pieces where inherited from recent family losses. I blubbered something about being a graduate from a local college, as if that would somehow serve to remedy her racist views. But I walked away feeling dead inside.
I called her on it the next day and told her that she had racially profiled me and I questioned how she weighed the jewelry and whether it was a fair trade. She offered more money to smooth things over. It wasn't much, but I had very little options. I kept her card and documented it, but never turned it in. Where would I go? If Orlando had an active department that tracked down acts of racism, they would advertise. But I've seen nothing but protectionism from the authorities since I began to look.
And that's the problem. I don't think that red counties are going to be racially sensitive. And if they're not racially sensitive, they won't set up departments within criminal justice agencies that can help minorities clear the way for a fair and equal society.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Blacks happen not to have it, but many whites don't, either.
I don't do rotary clubs and such, so don't know about those. Not many HOAs around here (that's big city stuff). I moved back from a big city...I can't imagine my bf not being allowed on the board of an HOA. It goes to TYPE of person and education level...ability to communicate, represent the HOA in meetings, and such. She's educated, white collar mid-management, etc.
I think people are more comfortable with people like themselves..I'll grant you that. That works both ways, though.
But there are probably country clubs, the DAR, and things like that that don't allow minorities & Jews.
I did call the DAR years ago to see what it would take to join (my aunt had belonged; I have an ancestor who fought in the Revolution). I had to call back when I got the info they wanted. I gave her my aunt's name...the woman I was speaking with was chilly in tone and didn't call me back. My aunt's name....Jewish. She had married a Jewish man. I thought that may have been an issue, but can't swear to it. How did my aunt join, if she was married to a Jew? Well, SHE wasn't Jewish...and she was very rich. They probably couldn't stop her.
So I imagine that sort of stuff still goes on. But a private club has a right to define who their members will be...don't know about the DAR, Rotary Club, and such. But it applies to all minorities AND I think money has a lot to do with it. I doubt Whopee Goldberg or Oprah has much trouble joining anything.
azureblue
(2,157 posts)The diarist has an agenda so he takes an event and tries his best to force his framework on it, even if he has to go to great lengths to do it. And he does. Looks to me he began with the words white and cake and went from there, and ignored the point Fey was making. Or maybe he should have attacked a paint store because they sell white paint.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)If it's the fact that white people are sometimes shitty allies and need to examine the content and impact of their words and actions and not just the intent, then I'm guilty.
But WTF about your paint store comment. Think about what you're saying.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)emulatorloo
(44,268 posts)I see some discussion, agreement, disagreement and a few clueless statements here or there.
If you see some posts that are "hurling ugliness" at the OP, it is your obligation as a DU'er to alert on them.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)They're personal attacks.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9488029
I don't know why you assume these didn't get alerted on.
emulatorloo
(44,268 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)eShirl
(18,509 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,183 posts)Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)(FYI to others, it's a reasonably quick read.)
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)tbe white American male perspective on issues.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)but well-meaning liberal white women who like to eat, was engaging in "brilliant satire" by portraying an awkward but well-meaning liberal white woman who liked to eat, and that this time it was incisive satire that skewered other awkward but well-meaning white liberals who would somehow know how to do the right thing because it's been unclear to them until now, and not played for laughs, is just...I can't even finish the sentence.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)http://www.thedailybeast.com/tina-feys-eat-cake-strategy-after-charlottesville-is-bad-advice
http://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/08/tina-fey-saturday-night-live-weekend-update-sheetcaking/
(Just to list a few)
obamanut2012
(26,183 posts)For being satiric.
SunSeeker
(51,798 posts)And it's not because she's a woman, or because she was being "satiric."
I'll believe it was "satire" if you can produce a statement from her saying that what she really meant was that people should NOT stay home.
Much of her bit was quite funny, but not that line. Don't know why so many here are so upset about people pointing that out.
Squinch
(51,084 posts)change the minds of white women who DID vote for him is like suggesting that people of color who DID vote in 2016 are responsible for trying to get the people of color who DIDN'T vote on election day in 2016 to come out in future elections.
I have no problem with either of those positions. I routinely confront white women if I learn they voted for Trump(Republicanazi)
VOX
(22,976 posts)It's one of the most powerful weapons against the powerful, the oppressors, the heartless, the string-pullers.
Satire 101: What is considered to be the most effective and memorable anti-nuke/anti-nuclear war film? "Fail-Safe"? "The Bedford Incident"? The countless post-nuclear, post apocalyptic shoot-em-ups? No, it's Stanley Kubrick's "Dr. Strangelove," because it's dark, savagely hilarious satire and over-the-top crazy, all offset with just enough documentary-feel realism.
Those who cannot grasp satire would likely take issue with a film that can make an audience laugh at complete global destruction.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)TooStrong
(16 posts)whathehell
(29,107 posts)not necessarily a fact.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)centering the voices and perspectives of POC. But.....nope.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)What do you lose if it is?
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)Her letter to her first daughter makes me cry every time I read it! But it's important to talk about how faves are problematic!
romanic
(2,841 posts)Keep on digging.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,517 posts)Richard D
(8,818 posts). . . the deep similarity between the sound of "sheet caking" and "shit kicking".
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)JI7
(89,288 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)She could have pointed out that after gorging on sheet cake, you still feel like shit because Trump is still president. She then could have, instead of using the black people as convenient comedic targets, gee, maybe invite THEM to have some cake? Giving people a slice of the pie (or in this case cake) is the antidote to privilege.
still_one
(92,509 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)And would it have hurt to let some of the black people she used as targets have some damned cake? Then again, that is why a new approach is needed, wed o not need to just let this be an excuse for people to engage in cheap,. meaningless gestures of self pity without actually DOING something about it.
This is why Jon Stewart, Samantha bee, and Jon Oliver are the new champions of satire, because they, unlike SNL, are willing to not only offened, but also actively get involved for the people who suffer, SNL cannot even let a blakc person get a fucking slice of cake before they get to destory it all and say "look at my grand metaphor!"
still_one
(92,509 posts)The cake was a metaphor, and each bite of that cake was the feeling of helplessness many Americans
feel as racism, bigotry, and sexism is legitimized. The American flag decorating that cake was completely obliterated, symbolizing the 70 years of civil rights progress being whittled away
That is my take on it
You don't care for the way the writers presented it, then watch Stewart and Oliver, and avoid SNL
still_one
(92,509 posts)"legitimized and validated" by this administration, and some in our illustrious media. The message that seems to be getting lost was that the cake was decorated with an American flag, and that flag was destroyed.
This was a biting editorial that was dead serious
betsuni
(25,799 posts)white supremacists but independent militias: "Did you know there were 250 well-armed militias that are ready to mobilize at any time? Guess what, Che, they're not cops, they're just militias and they train themselves." Che says, "Give me some of that damn cake."
still_one
(92,509 posts)hopelessness many feel at the hands of these purveyors of hate.
I agree with you that the climax was when Che grabbed a piece of that cake. That was symbolic in so many aspects
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 20, 2017, 03:52 AM - Edit history (3)
Perhaps The Root author should attempt to actually *get* the satire before spouting off about a Democratic ally. Fey clearly states it's something many women in her circle have done once a week since the election. I've done it! Hell, last week I was so sad/angry about Charlottesville that I devoured a bag of Pepperidge Farm Snickerdoodles slathered in canned cream cheese frosting... and I didn't bother with a plate! It doesn't mean that we're not doing anything else, and why The Root author seems to assume that is beyond me.
Fey called out Nazis, Klansmen, mistreated Native Americans, "Donnie Johnnie," inept Paul Ryan, Ann Coulter/Yard Sale Barbie, slave-owning Thomas Jefferson, gun culture, independent militias, etc. I agreed with her about *almost* wanting the man-boys to protest in NYC to have the shit kicked out of them, but in the end agreed about no violence. She closed with stay home and "let the morons scream into the empty air." But just before that she pointed out that folks choose to stay home rather than see a "thoughtful movie with two female leads" (or something to that effect). There it is.
Not bloody likely! Trump (and Sarah Palin) voters are not going to listen to some "wealthy NY liberal celebrity."
Ridiculous piece.
UT_democrat
(143 posts)A cake is just a cake.
Coventina
(27,223 posts)Nor did I find it an adequate response.
Mc Mike
(9,116 posts)Ridiculously alienating, stirring up infighting among allies.
Two thumbs down, way down.
BannonsLiver
(16,545 posts)What a pant load.