The Thing About Beyonce's Feminism

[OBenario4]

If Beyoncé says she is a feminist, well, she is a feminist. It would be just stupid to argue against that. But Beyoncé’s feminism, which is projected out to the world by way of the mass media, isn’t without its criticism, just like Katy Perry, Lily Allen, Miley Cyrus, Madonna and other pop culture fem-positive artists being perpetuated as girl power entertainment. They too feel validated in their feminism and have face stiff critique because of it. And fear of the white feminist gaze, and stan (blink, blink) be damned, I, who too revels in anti-sexism and anti-racism, am going to speak on it, sister to sister.

(...)

The Beyoncé we see on the visual album is about power. She is also about sexual liberation, control and self-ownership, which all are the backbones of most feminist ideologies. However, there are other themes on the album, which often run counter to those ideas as well. As mentioned by many casual listeners, there is the misappropriation of Ike and Tina Turner domestic abuse by Jay Z, which adds a bitter pill to the lovemaking in “Drunk in Love.” And there’s the groan-inducing factor in “Partition” while watching Beyoncé, a black woman, dancing around in a cage with leopard spotted lights all over her body. However, more notable, is how much of the Beyoncé visual album becomes a pageantry of opulence and extravagance. Both through song and visuals, we see Beyoncé toasting up all sorts of caviar dreams and champagne wishes, including the following: being surrounded by butlers and maids; unapologetically riding private jets and being draped in diamonds, furs and exclusive and hard-to-pronounce labels. Through her self-empowering message, Beyoncé wants us to know that she is not just a boss, but queen. She is not just a queen, but a king. Oh yeah, and she is not just a king, but a rich one as well. In essence, this visual album is as much about Beyoncé affirming herself among society’s aristocrats and one-percent as much as it is about her feminism. And while there is girl power, it’s at the expense of what other girls and boys?

In the video for “Partition” she, just for fun, drops a napkin for the attention of her preoccupied husband. However, when either fails to fetch it, a silent maid dutifully dashes from across the room and retrieves it for her mistress, who doesn’t even bother to make eye contact. She repeats the same playful, yet carefree debasing imagery again in the video for “Haunted,” where an indifferent Beyoncé takes a single drag off of a cigarette and then tosses it at the feet of the same upscale hotel employee, who had dutifully lit the cigarette and once she is gone, will likely have to clean up her ashes. And in “Flawless,” which has been taken by many as the new black feminist anthem, Beyoncé doesn’t offer camaraderie and solidarity for aspiring women, but instead divisively boasts the lyrics, “I know when you were little girls. You dreamt of being in my world. Don’t forget it, don’t forget it. Respect that, bow down b***hes…” In fact, many of Beyoncé’s themes of self-empowerment involves little attempt to dismantle or challenge in any way, the hierarchy, which says that some folks, regardless of gender, are more important than others. The same hierarchy, which brings about the vicious racism, classism and yes, even sexism, which disempowers economically, politically and socially the equally hardworking, and unrecognized feminists.

(...)

It’s interesting that the Beyoncé visual album, with its proclamations of self-empowerment, comes after noted black entertainer and activist Harry Belafonte criticized both Beyoncé and her husband Shawn “Jay Z” Carter for what he called unbridled capitalism, particularly turning their backs on social responsibility. Thus far, Jay Z has responded with Magna Carter Holy Grail, which included a song that disrespectfully referred to Belafonte as “Mr. Day-O” and “boy.” Carter also responded to Belafonte’s comments on social responsibility more directly in an interview by saying in part, “My presence is charity.” Beyoncé, however, hasn’t said much in the way of what she believes her social responsibility is as an artist. This visual album, doesn’t offer any response in the way of clarity, and for some folks, her social responsibility is a very important thing.

And I suspect for many critics, it is probably a more relevant question than whether or not Beyoncé is a feminist. Or if there is a question of Beyonce’s feminism, how does her feminist image of sexy girl power, particularly as it exists at the intersection of wealth, power and even privilege, work to help bring about a more egalitarian society? There is no shortage of musical artists, both women and men, willing to brag and boast about their positions of power and wealth. And yet, none of them, or us, are any freer. As such, it’s not enough that we as women and/or feminists just “lean in”; we must work to dismantle our oppression as well.

Read more:
http://madamenoire.com/333140/beyonce-feminism/

[bettyellen]

1. Interesting... can we name any rock bands we expected the same from? No, but we demand she be every

Thing- all at once. And act like that demand is normal. It isn't.

[OBenario4]

3. Problem is selling...

... aristocratic affirmation, elitism, hedonism, exhibitionism as progressive values.

They aren't.

[leftynyc]

12. And who appointed you arbiter

Of who is and is not a feminist? And since when is it any artist's job to "sell" progressive values? And while we're at it, who appointed you or anyone else to decide what ARE progressive values? She's an artist and it's just music. Chill out. She doesn't owe you anything.

[OBenario4]

17. Who said I was appointed as "arbiter"?

I don't have to be "an arbiter" to discuss anything. Sorry. People are not obliged to treat celebrities as gods. Really.

[leftynyc]

48. How about treating them

like human beings who are allowed to live their lives the way they see fit without having to answer to scolds who think it's Beyonce's job to be a role model.

[OBenario4]

60. Stop pretending she's been oppressed by these threads.

She doesn't even know we exist.

[leftynyc]

100. Why are you shoving words

into my mouth? I didn't say she was being oppressed, I said people lhave no right to judge her, she doesn't work for you. Don't buy her music if she insults your progressive sensibilities.

[emulatorloo]

13. You do not get to dictate how people express their sexuality.

It isn't any of your business.

[OBenario4]

16. Nobody is obliged to like Beyonce's stance on feminism. Deal with it. n/t

[emulatorloo]

21. non sequitur and strawman. You do not get to dictate how people express their sexuality

[OBenario4]

23. You don't get to dictate what I'm allowed to discuss or not, honey. Sorry. n/t

[emulatorloo]

25. Discuss whatever you want. Just don't be surprised or act like a "victim" when you get pushback

on bogus rhetorical tactics and your need to dictate to other people what puritanical "rules" they must obey to be a "True Feminist"

[OBenario4]

33. As long as they focus on the arguments and not personal attacks on the messengers, ok. n/t

[emulatorloo]

40. Ah yes you poor poor poor victim

[bettyellen]

65. Oh please, men have sang about no much but getting drunk high and fucking

And no one ever says shit about them. Music is one of he few things that people or all ages and income can enjoy free on the airwaves, and it's uplifting. A world with only Tracey Chapman and Woody Guthrie music is not a world worth living in.

And yeah it's a double standard, no one ever talks about white rock and rollers like they're expected to be socially redeeming.

[Me.]

52. This Is Just Because SHE Bought A 95 MIllion Dollar House

That woman is getting above herself

[emulatorloo]

2. Nice, a gatekeeper to tell us which women aren't true feminists(tm)

DU was really needing one of those

[OBenario4]

4. It's a forum. And this is a piece of opinion which I agree with.

Feel free to debate and contest it.

[emulatorloo]

8. I just contested it. And said pretty much all that needs to be said.

You just don't have the authority to police women's feminism.

[OBenario4]

11. Oh, sorry. Thought you were just trying to disqualify criticism by attacking the person...

... and not the argument.

See, I don't think Beyonce is a goddess, above good and evil. She's a media celebrity. I don't see any problem discussing this.

[emulatorloo]

19. Who said Beyonc is a goddess above good and evil? Nobody.

A strawman argument isn't a valid argument

[OBenario4]

20. It's what looks like when you get all offended...

... and start saying "you must not speak about our Celebrity Queen".

[emulatorloo]

24. My replies to you are not about Beyonc. They are about you attempting to dictate to feminists

about what makes a "True Feminist"

[OBenario4]

27. Don't remember "dictating" anything to anyone.

I guess you're just too sensitive about discussion.

[emulatorloo]

39. Nah, i'm sensitive to folk who think they have the moral authority to judge other people's feminism

You don't have that authority.

[Skidmore]

85. Amen...

Boom.

[Weekend Warrior]

86. +1 for the strawman comment.

Over and over again.

[obamanut2012]

30. It is a liberal forum, not Mansplaining Underground

Shoo, and quit attacking successful women, esp WOC.

Your concern isn't even entertaining.

[OBenario4]

35. I would have to be a man for this to be "mansplaining", dear. n/t

[mcar]

5. Again with the Beyonce criticism?

[OBenario4]

6. Yep.

I felt this was a point too obvious to be skipped.

[emulatorloo]

9. Yeah you're pretty obvious

[Demsrule86]

51. and you had to use a really old article too...

Hard to find an article that could be posted here criticizing Beyonce.

[sheshe2]

54. It is a 4 year old article.

I felt this was a point too obvious to be skipped.

Yet you skipped this salient point for years...until now.

[OBenario4]

55. Yes, the recent discussion involving her happened yesterday, not 4 years ago.

Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Since we got into a debate about "criticizing pop stars' hedonism and ostentation is envy and racism" recently I've only now felt it would be necessary to bring to attention the criticism involving the mercantilization of activism and selling elitist egolatry as something revolutionary.

[sheshe2]

62. Aaaah.

[bettyellen]

70. "Involving" not envolving.

LOL @egolatry!

[OBenario4]

73. Thanks. Corrected. Hope you don't hang out with those nice "speak English" type of people...

... I've met in the US...

[Weekend Warrior]

87. We can always hope for the latter.

Seems people are trying to help them.

[SaschaHM]

7. From a 2013 article no less.

[OBenario4]

10. I don't see any problem with that. n/t

[lapucelle]

15. It makes about as much sense as last week's Thom Hartmann adulation.

Where are these talking points coming from?

[NurseJackie]

28. You noticed too, eh? Good to see that I'm not the ONLY one who's suspicious.

Now, I'm not claiming that I can't be deceived... but generally speaking, I'm pretty good at spotting people's motivations and intent.

[Me.]

74. I Bow To Your Greater Wisdom

[NurseJackie]

89. With wisdom comes...

... wrinkles. (Sigh.)

[obamanut2012]

31. It is so obvious

[lapucelle]

42. Hartmann, GOOD! Beyonce, BAD!

[stonecutter357]

14. fuck trump...

[SaschaHM]

18. We are only supposed to focus on Trump when folks criticize Bill Maher for using the N word.

Going back 4 years to find an article to bitch about Beyonce though is fair game. I wish half the people that popped up during "house N*gger" -gate to try and steer that conversation elsewhere would have posted the same amount of "This is silly and divisive. Let's focus on Trump" posts on these Beyonce threads.

[OBenario4]

22. You know that we can discuss both media's aristocracism and Trump at the same time, right?

I mean, someone could argue" "fuck trump, there are people being slaved in Mexico". Or "fuck slavery in Mexico, women are being oppressed in Nigeria". Or "fuck women oppression in Nigeria, kids are being slaughtered in Ethiopia"... and we would go on forever.

[lapucelle]

49. "aristocracism"?

The word doesn't exist in modern English.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=aristocracism

There are a few references to the word in some older books, but the context clearly denotes "born to position and power".

You see, the danger with using big words like "aristocracism" and "feminism" is that when people misuse them, it tends to entirely undercut their arguments.

[OBenario4]

63. But that's the context, indeed.

"Both through song and visuals, we see Beyoncé toasting up all sorts of caviar dreams and champagne wishes, including the following: being surrounded by butlers and maids; unapologetically riding private jets and being draped in diamonds, furs and exclusive and hard-to-pronounce labels. Through her self-empowering message, Beyoncé wants us to know that she is not just a boss, but queen. She is not just a queen, but a king. Oh yeah, and she is not just a king, but a rich one as well. In essence, this visual album is as much about Beyoncé affirming herself among society’s aristocrats and one-percent as much as it is about her feminism."

[lapucelle]

93. Your dubious source is misusing the word "aristocrat".

Aristocrats are born to inherited wealth and power.

Linguistic appropriation for propaganda purposes is generally suspect.

[stonecutter357]

72. .

[obamanut2012]

26. I am really done with your attacks on Beyonce and her success

And, now her feminism.

You've stated you are Brazilian. Go mansplain to your own countrywomen, and leave our successful and Dem feminist women alone.

Shoo.

[OBenario4]

29. I'm a woman. n/t

[obamanut2012]

32. lulz

[OBenario4]

34. I've imagined that would be everything you'd have to say.

[obamanut2012]

36. lulz

[OBenario4]

37. Really. Grow up. n/t

[obamanut2012]

38. You REALLY need to work on your act better

You are way too on the nose.

And, sorry can't chat anymore about vapid issues, have an antifa meeting to go to.

[OBenario4]

41. So now you are telling ME that I'm not a woman? Wow.

You're pathetic, pal.

[lapucelle]

43. Hartmann, GOOD! Beyonce, Harris, Booker, Patrick, ALL BAD!

[emulatorloo]

95. +1

[lapucelle]

97. One of these things...

[emulatorloo]

98. IMHO this persona is way OTT on the "I'm leftier than thou" personality trait

Yet so authoritarian in his declarations.

[oberliner]

44. This article is from 2013

Not sure if folks realize that (or why it is being posted now).

[obamanut2012]

69. Because the OP has spent the last 24 hours posting about Beyonce

And how awful she is.

And generally insulting and attacking those calling him on it. Ooops, her! I forgot the gender switch. Mea culpa.

[blogslut]

45. "Not feminist enough" is so 2010

But you have fun with that.

[ismnotwasm]

46. Dude, WTF

Go criticize a wealthy white man--there's plenty to choose from.

[stonecutter357]

47. your OP seems so familiar are you from California ?

[Demsrule86]

50. welcome to Du...

Why the Beyonce hate...she is great. I like her...it is not her job to create the perfect society...nor is it in her power. She does much good. There are others as rich as she that you and others don't seem to have a problem with. What is it about Beyonce that causes this sort of reaction? It seems as if it has to do with her being a woman and a POC...not saying you but certainly others.

[Bladewire]

53. Another anti Beyonce thread, first, her new house is too big....

... now questioning her feminism.

Seems a failed divisive effort focused on Beyonce.

Strange

[OBenario4]

56. Yes, quite weird when someone brings a subject to attention and other people end up bringing...

... other points.

It must be a conspiracy.

[OBenario4]

57. We have so far more than 50 replies...

And not a single one is about the text. Mere celebrity worshipping and ad hominems. Same thing happened in the other thread. That's frankly weird.

[bettyellen]

66. No ones taking you seriously, there's no reason to. We're just watching the shit being stirred.

[OBenario4]

67. Ok. Doesn't change the fact that the response has been childish and irrational. n/t

[bettyellen]

68. You're quite deliberately insulting the majority of DUers. LOL we see you!

I don't for a moment believe you care about Beyoncé. You just like stirring shit.

[OBenario4]

71. Ownt.

So rude from me, right? You are all so gentle around here...

[emulatorloo]

96. Yay! The "Poor Me I'm Just a Poor Victim" card again

People are pushing back on your false assertions. That's what happens at DU, sorry.

[Weekend Warrior]

90. And strawman arguments.

One person has dropped a strawman into almost every single post.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Everyone's a critic

[Miles Archer]

59. I'll bookmark this so I can read it after Trump is out of the White House

"...it is probably a more relevant question than whether or not Beyoncé is a feminist..."

Actually, the question isn't relevant at all. If there's some kind of certification she needs to go through, like Microsoft, or if it's a merit badge system like the Boy / Girl Scouts, then yes...we should rise up and demand to see her credentials.

Look, she makes a lot of money making people happy. What she does with her personal life is her business and has no place under the microscope.

She's a performer. How about we just "allow" her to be a performer, without expectations and demands?

[ismnotwasm]

61. .

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Okay...

That's funny.

[bigtree]

75. wondering about the reaction

...if these women had done nothing to represent or promote their feminist views.

I think this boils down to folks wanting to speak for these women, instead of actually listening to and appreciating their amplified voices.

[bettyellen]

77. I think it's also a bizarre expectation you'll never see put on white male artists-

Never ever.

[Bladewire]

76. "we must work to dismantle our oppression as well"

Beyonce isn't oppressing you

[OBenario4]

78. Nobody said she was. Read the text. n/t

[Bladewire]

79. I did read the text

Did you write it?

[OBenario4]

82. No, I just agree with it.

The text doesn't say she's the one oppressing.

[Bladewire]

84. ☝️righton 👍

[Yavin4]

80. Beyonce is a Capitalist more than anything else.

Everything she does is designed to maximize her wealth. If you're looking for something more than that, you need to look elsewhere.

[OBenario4]

81. Thank you.

That's exactly my point.

[Weekend Warrior]

83. "Isn't without its criticism."

I simply think we have an endless supply of criticism for domestic abusers, the grab them by the pussy crew, the religious ownership society, unequal pay, cat calling, stereotyping, sexist jokes, slut and fat shaming, attacking feminists, double standards, penalties for childbirth, etc.

I'm cool with Beyonce's feminism. I'm not ok with societal sexism.

Things a bit slow?

https://reportingsandiego.com/2016/07/28/everything-on-the-internet-is-free-until-it-is-not-and-independent-media/

[JI7]

88. I'm defending Beyonce and I'm not a huge fan of hers and never bought anything she sells

But i can clearly see why people have a problem with her. Why she is singled out. Just like oprah.

[Weekend Warrior]

91. Big part of it. Right here. Nt

[Adrahil]

92. Me too. I cannot name a single song by her.

Honestly, that style is not my cup of tea.

But WTF!?

Why are we fucking eating our own?

[mopinko]

94. cuz trolls.

and zombies.

[emulatorloo]

99. Yep. My post above

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029489199#post98

[bettyellen]

101. Deliberate shit stirring against women and POC- who vote Dem reliably- but that's not enough.

Complete bullshit, is what this is.

[Wounded Bear]

102. So Beyonce does a version of Madonna's "Material Girl" and gets slammed for it?

ok