Why isn't Jared Kushner offended by Trump's anti-semitism?

[milestogo]

If he'S religious enough to make Ivanka convert, you'd think Trump would bother him.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. One word: KAPO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo_(concentration_camp)

[DDySiegs]

20. Harsh - but evidently deserved

[nycbos]

36. Yup absolutely

[atreides1]

2. Jared

Can always convert!!!

[lunasun]

3. $$$$$$$$ & $$$$$ & power & fame & more deal$ than ever imagined

[maveric]

4. Because he's a toady.

Nuff said.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Sex and money.

It certainly ain't rock and roll. Don't know about the drugs. Don certainly has the sniffles. But he doesn't seem like the sharing type.

[haveahart]

25. Money and Sex in that order.

[oberliner]

6. Religious enough to "make Ivanka convert" ?

What the heck does that mean?

[sagesnow]

7. According to their bio

Jared refused to marry Ivanka unless she converted to Judaism-- and she did.

[CottonBear]

9. Children can only be Jewish if their mother is Jewish. N/T

[whathehell]

28. I believe that is ONE theory, but not representative of all..

It supposedly derives from the fact that, in the bad open days of rape and pillage, paternity couldn't always be assured. This isn't generally the case in present day Western societies.

[d_r]

33. Have you ever seen the Maury show? nt

[whathehell]

35. No. What about it?

[d_r]

38. well, your not going to get my joke

it is a show about paternity tests and revealing who the real daddy is

[whathehell]

39. I'm not sure if I'm not "getting it"

or if it's just not relevant to this conversation about Jewish maternity.

[oberliner]

10. Interesting

I did not realize he had given her an ultimatum of that nature. Do you have a source for that?

[sagesnow]

15. Here's one...

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Jared-Kushner-once-broke-up-with-Ivanka-Trump-over-religion-issue-464353

[oberliner]

16. Thanks

Interesting to know.

[milestogo]

8. Well it was obviously important to him that his.children

Be raised Jewish. Another couple might not have felt this was necessary.

[oberliner]

11. I thought she had wanted to convert

Not that he had made her do it. Just based on the way she has talked about it.

[bettyellen]

46. I've seen a lot of wife conversions for marriage and in all cases there was intense

Familial pressure- they did feel the kids would never be Jewish if they mother didn't convert first. And this was important for culture as well as religious reasons. My industry had a high percentage of observant Jews so if always heard stories about people not being able to date outside their faith, or talking about having to convert for the family- often a inheritence depended on it. The older generations didn't want Judaism to disappear.

There was generally less pressure on men, as long as the kids would be raised in the Jewish faith. But one of my friend's grandparents offer to buy an expensive apartment for the couple if her husband converted, so he did. Their wedding had some of the old traditions (they went in a closet together for five minutes after the wedding, had some sort of scroll contracts to sign) a klezmer band and Alan Dershowitz came!

I think it's a bit more about cultural preservation than anything, although the marriage contract itself was a bit more pro- woman than I imagined. Fairly common in NYC area, anyway. It's a noted phenomenon that the converted becomes more enthusiastic about it that the Jew born that way. But in my friend's case they were both agnostic, so you never know.

[bettyellen]

49. And now that I think about it, the only reason my nephews weren't bar mitzvah-ed is that

Their grandparents were dead by the time they were old enough. My brother didn't have to convert, but he did promise that any kids would be raised in the Jewish faith.
But they don't do temple or anything, because their mom isn't observant.

[unblock]

12. how religious he is, and whether or not he "made" ivanka convert, is irrelevant.

he identifies as a jew, that is all that matters. anti-semitism affects all who identify as jews, it doesn't matter "how religious" any one of us are. anti-semites don't cares whether a jew keeps kosher or not, keep shabbat or not, goes to temple or not. if you identify as a jew, that's all that matters.

as for "making" ivanka convert, i don't know the details behind that particular situation, but i suspect that ivanka had a say in the matter!

as to your actual question, i imagine that it does bother him, but he no doubt sees more than enough of a personal upside to outweigh it. many republicans have made such calculations ever since nixon welcomed the haters with open arms.

[whathehell]

34. I'm sure she had a "say", but he may have pressured her

or even given her an "ultimatum" -- convert or I won't marry you. I heard Steven Spielberg did this to his second wife. I would have told him to to pound sand, but that's just me.

[unblock]

47. I admit I don't know the details in their case. Point is, it's irrelevant to the question.

But it's common for non-Jews to assume that if the fiancée or wife of a Jewish man converts to Judaism, it must be because the man pressured her. I can't say it never happens but I certainly can say it's very unfair and borders on anti-semitism.

Sorry if I'm a bit sensitive on this point; mrs. Unblock converted and I would never, ever have pressured her into doing anything like that.

[whathehell]

50. It only came up because of the question of his religiosity as an Orhodox Jew.

I don't know if it is common or not for non-Jews to assume pressure in the case of spouse conversions -- I have two gentile friends who married Jews and neither pressured them, so it's not common for me.

In the case of Spielberg, I'm only repeating what I read.

[unblock]

52. his religiousity is irrelevant; only his religious identity is relevant to the original question

anti-semitism affects me, as a jew who doesn't keep kosher, doesn't keep shabbat, only goes to temple for weddings and bar mitzvahs, and doesn't believe in god just as much as a jew who does the opposite.

whether he's bothered by the anti-semitism of benedict donald and his fan club has nothing to do with his religiosity.

[whathehell]

57. I explained the connection, and I'm sorry, but

some here apparently think, or perhaps did think, that it is relevant...I'm not necessarily one of them, but that IS alI I have to say on the matter, and I'm not interested in discussing it further.

[EllieBC]

66. It's pretty simple.

We all have requirements for whom we marry. Would you marry a Teump supporter? No. Neither would I. I also wouldn't marry someone who didn't share my faith. It's not like she couldn't find some other rich guy to marry. It's not like Kushner was the last wealthy single man in Manhattan.

[whathehell]

70. I don't think it is, actually..

Last edited Fri Aug 25, 2017, 08:32 PM - Edit history (1)

and I'd guess that, for most, certainly the more secular, liberal populace, the only "requirement" they have for marriage is love. I guess the pertinent question here is whether Jared, like you, actually has a "faith" or whether it's just a cultural, ethnic identification

If it's the first, his "requirement" for conversion, seems reasonable..If it's the second, it's a manifestation of cultural, ethnic bias, imo, and as such, is not.

[EllieBC]

72. If wants to keep a Jewish home she would have had to convert.

You aren't permitted by Halacha to force someone Jewish to keep kosher, observe Shabbat, keep the laws of taharat hamishpacha, etc..

Being raised Modern Orthodox he likely keeps those things. So he couldn't marry her and keep those things still if she didn't convert. Those aren't cultural things. Those are heavy duty things.

And their kids attend an orthodox school so I'm guessing it's not cultural.

[whathehell]

75. As I said

if he actually IS religious, it seems reasonable....If not, it doesn't.

[nycbos]

41. +1

I am a secular jew. I don't keep kosher. I only go to synagogue on the high holy days.

For those of you who don't know what that means, people like me are the Jewish versions of Christians who only go to church on Christmas Eve and Easter.


And you are right. The people who chanted "Jews will not replace us" don't make the distinction between the observant and the secular.

And the fact that ANY jew is willing to work with Donald Trump despite his refusal to condemn Nazis is disgusting and history will judge them harshly.

[spiderpig]

56. As someone who was "raised in the Protestant faith"

(meaning we only officially went to church on Easter to wear new hats, or if somebody got married or died) I appreciate your clarification of non-observant Jews.

Is Judaism a blend of culture and religion? Do non-observers regard themselves as Jewish in terms of ethnicity, but decline to practice the traditional/reform rituals? It's always confused me. I should have research it more thoroughly by now, but I'm lazy.

BTW, my grandmother was a Sunday school teacher and church secretary. It did absolutely no good with me, but it was fun running around the choir loft and stocking the pews with hymnals when I was five.

[nycbos]

60. There is a phrase in Jewish humor...

... "three Jews five opinions"




You are right though that some people view it as blend of culture and religion.


All of it means different things to different people.

[unblock]

62. it's 2 jews 3 opinions! vat kind av a jew are you anyway! ah fuggetaboudit!

[nycbos]

63. I have heard it that way too.

I love my bagels and lox.

[spiderpig]

80. OK guys - Beach Bagel in Atlantic Beach, Lungeyelund.

I lived next door in Long Beach, and BB was my guilty pleasure. It's been over 20 years. Is it still there?

[unblock]

61. judaism is a religion of identity, while christianity is a religion of faith.

belief in jesus is the defining characteristic of a christian. regardless of ethnicity, how you were raised, whatever. if you belief in jesus, you're a christian; if you don't, you're not.

the hard part is recognizing that having a particular belief being the defining characteristic of a religion is a characteristic of christianity, not of all religions.

judaism is a religion of identity. it *has* a set of common beliefs, but no jew is required to belief any of it in particular. it *has* a set of common traditions and rituals and practices, but no jew is required to adhere to any of them in particular.

judaism is based instead on identification as jewish, and jews often show or mark that identity by participating in jewish rituals, practices, or sharing in those common beliefs.

some jews can be restrictive about accepting others as jewish, and may say, "i won't recognize you as jewish unless you prove to me you are jewish or convert". this "proof" is done by showing that you have a jewish mother, and a conversion is done by going through a bar mitzvah ritual (usually after up to a year of "training&quot but again, no particular belief is required.

this is why it's not at all a contradiction to have jewish atheists (such as myself), for instance; whereas, a christian atheist would make no sense.

[whathehell]

71. Certain Christian groups, Irish Catholics, for instance, have that as well..

Italian Catholics too. Those two share a common religion, but their individual cultures -- traditionally, at least -- were very different.

[unblock]

73. I suppose, there are "lapsed catholics"

Which seems bit of a different concept than an "ex-protestant"

[whathehell]

76. It's about more than that. n/ t.

[spiderpig]

64. Thanks for the insight! I am fascinated.

Things like traditional dietary prohibitions, which were no doubt based on practical instruction, as in "improperly prepared shellfish and pork can kill you, so don't eat it guys".

[Behind the Aegis]

58. Just goes to show...

...anti-Semitism isn't just plague of the right.

[EllieBC]

67. Was there any doubt? NT

[ecstatic]

13. He's used to it and has learned to ignore or shrug it off?

Or excusing it away with, "oh, he means well" or "he is too old to change or know any better" etc etc

[jberryhill]

14. He believes, as did many long ago, that his wealth, power and privilege will insulate him

[Bleacher Creature]

27. This.

I think he's also as narcissistic as Trump, in the sense that anything that helps them to "win" is worth it.

[Whiskeytide]

17. Honestly, I think it's an act for the base, ...

... and Jar Jar is in on it.

Miller and Bannon, though are true believers. That's why there has been conflict with them. JMHO.

[enough]

18. Because his soul is as deep as a coat of paint. NT

[dembotoz]

23. damn lordy that is funny.......i mean damn

[cilla4progress]

19. Cravenness

and narcissism. He's as pathological as his FIL.

[leftstreet]

21. Because rich people think they're exempt from everything

Kushner wouldn't think Trump's anti-semitism has anything to do with him. Trump surely means those 'other' not-exempt common people

[gopiscrap]

22. because he sold his soul to trump for trinkets and baubles

[Doreen]

43. Not with the same words but that is baisiclly what I thought.

I always wonder how he feels about sharing Ivanka with daddy?

[gopiscrap]

44. and Hope Hicks

[whathehell]

59. What do you mean by that?

I do hope it's not another smarmy inference of incest.

[Sienna86]

24. He may need a pardon. Nt

[MLAA]

26. Good one! And likely true.

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. He is a slumlord, is rich off of others suffering.

If he is religious, the Jewish religion needs to ban his ass.

But I highly doubt he is, I bet you he isnt at all.

The Jewish people I know are nothing like this ass.

[procon]

30. Kushner knows it's all fake, Trump is just putting on a show for his rabid base.

Trump has always been a conman, but he is also a skilled performance artist. His philosophy is mutable and he changes his stance from day to day, and sometimes even by the hour. It doesn't matter if he's on camera yelling hateful tirades about anti-semitism, rascism or sexsm while embracing the KKK and Nazis, or gushing saccharine prose testifying his benevolent love and affection for all mankind. Its all a lie, every word he utters is a lie. Jared Kushner knows that, and so does Ivanka, and since they're both in on the ruse, they aren't offended in the least.

[whathehell]

37. It's unconscionable, nonetheless. n/t

[procon]

40. The Kushners are collaborators. History is filled with amoral people just like them. nt

[tableturner]

31. Trump and crew will need the bigots to revolt when their criminality is exposed.

Trump and crew know what they did, know that they are in the process of being fully exposed by Mueller, and know that the only thing that MAY keep them out of jail would be a violent revolt by his bigoted followers (although it won't).

[still_one]

32. For the same reason that there are self-identified Christians who support Trump's anti-Christian

policies

[Behind the Aegis]

54. Good point.

Or the few ethnic minorities who proudly stand with him in statements or on stage or the women who gladly serve a self-professed "pussy grabber". Frankly, this is just another way for anti-Semitism to make itself known which is clearly on display with all of the "$$$$$" comments, because as we know, the only reason Jews do anything is for the money! The motivations of other minorities' continued support of this asshole aren't under scrutiny, only 'the Jew'! Of course, all those Jews who have loudly spoken out against him or spoken loudly in defense of minorities, well, we just don't count and mentioning it is akin to "bragging".

[still_one]

69. Your spelled it out succinctly BTA, thanks

[oasis]

42. Jared's dad and Trump are both career swindlers. He uses religion

as a cover to draw in clients.

[HopeAgain]

45. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I haven't a clue $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Tommy_Carcetti]

48. Because he has no soul.

Isn't that right, Jared?

[onenote]

51. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

[Cary]

53. Curious how you would use the words "religious enough."

I don't think Hitler distinguished by how "religious" one was. Nor do I think other modern anti-Semites make that distinction between "religious" and "non-religious" Jews.

I would not use the words because I believe people, generally, conflate "religious" with recidivist. Recidivism is something peculiar to religious fundamentalists, generally. They believe that going back to some nostaligic age somehow makes them more "religious." I will go further and say that I find this recidivism offensive because I find it phony and self righteous. And too I think it's mischievous. When people believe they're holier than thou they tend to try to impose their religious beliefs on others.

Please don't interpret this as a criticism of you, personally. Disallowing recidivists their righteous indignation is more of a general cause.

[HAB911]

55. The boys in Charlottesville were chanting

Cohen, Mnuchin, Jared, Ivanka will not replace us!
Cohen, Mnuchin, Jared, Ivanka will not replace us!
Cohen, Mnuchin, Jared, Ivanka will not replace us!


Who the fuck knows?

[milestogo]

68. And no response from any of them.

[grossproffit]

74. Wow.

[pnwmom]

65. Jared is close to some US rabbis who are close to the Chief Rabbi in Russia

who is a favorite of Putin.

So maybe he expects the same deal here.

http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/putin-on-our-side-says-russias-chief/

Putin on our side, says Russia’s chief rabbi

Russian chief rabbi Berel Lazar tells Limmud FSU that Putin has done more for Jews than any other leader of the country

April 28, 2017

[Thomas Hurt]

77. Meh....could be neither his heritage nor his religion mean more to him than money....

His religious practices are just part of the brand....

[Eugene]

78. Jared and Ivanka pick their battles.

This battle isn't one of them apparently.

[kskiska]

79. I read that when Ivana talked about converting to Judaism

her father asked why Jared couldn't convert to her religion instead.

[blueinredohio]

81. These people worship money

Whatever religion they say they are money is their god