Single seniors should marry DACA kids

[Generic Other]

Help one another. Save the kids who pay for your social security. Make a lifelong friend who will be forever in your debt, who will honor your generosity.

Use pre-nups to protect individual property if you must.

Thumb your nose at Trump. Make it public and personal.

I am sure there are some bugs in my idea, but we need to fight back.

[leftstreet]

1. Why only seniors?

[Generic Other]

5. I figured they needed young people in their lives

A mutually advantageous arrangement? It allows a safe haven for both. The young person will outlive any obligation to the elder one, so they can also resume their own lives in the future.

Perhaps some strong bonds. Also the DACA kids get to inherit the spouse's benefits.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. It's not a safe haven. It's a felony. See below.

[Generic Other]

24. Oooh I am so scared

"Don't engage in civil disobedience. It's a felony." said Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

43. The problem with this kind of "civil disobedience"

is that it hurts the person you are trying to help even more than it hurts you. You both go to prison but when your sentence is over you go home. But the immigrant "spouse" gets deported and can't come back. Civil disobedience is useless unless it can accomplish a positive goal.

[Generic Other]

58. 800,000 applications would hurt the system more than any individuals

They can't put you in jail for applying for permission.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

63. Civil disobedience is normally intended as a protest against an unjust law.

Is the unjust law this action is intended as, a protest against the deportation of DACA participants, or against the law prohibiting sham marriages? There are many ways to protest DACA deportations which would involve civil disobedience, just as MLK protested racial discrimination - protests, nonviolent demonstrations - which are very likely to happen anyhow.

If you think the law against marrying to obtain favorable immigration status is unjust, consider that the law was enacted in the first place to prevent the exploitation or sex trafficking of immigrants in some cases, or the defrauding of the American spouse (since there is often a financial transaction involved), or the admission into the U.S. of terrorists or criminals. If the system is clogged up by fake marriages of DACA people, the legitimate purposes of the law would be thwarted.

And realistically, 800,000 people aren't likely to find another 800,000 people willing to participate in a fraudulent marriage, since the marriage has to occur before the immigrant applies for a green card.

[Generic Other]

64. Law not intended to prevent marriages of convenience then

If intended "to prevent the exploitation or sex trafficking of immigrants in some cases, or the defrauding of the American spouse (since there is often a financial transaction involved), or the admission into the U.S. of terrorists or criminals..."

ICE has no business assuming these things to be true of any DACA kids. In other words, I don't see anything in what you said that specifically restricts marriages of convenience.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

66. Marriages of convenience are illegal if the "convenience" is the evasion of immigration laws.

Take it up with Congress.

[Generic Other]

68. Looks like some states are taking it to court

Washington state. "Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson said Monday if Trump follows through on that decision, the Attorney General's Office will file suit to end what he called Trump's 'cruel and illegal policy' and defend DACA recipients."

http://abc7chicago.com/politics/washington-state-threatens-legal-action-if-trump-ends-daca/2375622/

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

69. But that's the revocation of DACA, not the marriage fraud law.

And I'm 100% in favor of what the WA AG is doing.

[Jim Lane]

91. Don't worry, no one would go to jail -- without due process.

You write, "ICE has no business assuming these things to be true of any DACA kids." The ICE wouldn't assume anything. There would be a hearing. You and your "spouse" would have the opportunity to present evidence and arguments to show that you were genuinely married.

Then you would go to jail.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Great idea, and states that value humanity and decency, blue states, will protect DACA

[Hekate]

117. Fraudulent marriages do not protect DACA. Seriously, they don't.

[Me.]

3. Do You Know How Many Hoops People From Other Countries Have To Jump Through

if they want to marry an American citizen. It has become a rigorous process.

[Generic Other]

6. Jumping hoops easier than closing doors forever

Fu*k the hoops.

I am trying to think outside the box. Anything is better than hiding people in the attic behind a secret bookcase.

[Me.]

12. Only If You Can Get Past Them

Really people have no idea. And as for marriages of convenience, they are like hawks on the lookout for those nowadays.

[iemitsu]

25. Marriages of convenience have always existed.

Many, if not most, of the marriages that older people contract are at some level about convenience. People need to take care of each other in America because the state refuses to play that role.

[Generic Other]

27. We need to think smarter in order to survive

Matchmakers take these things into consideration all the time.

I recall reading about the last Civil War widow who was collecting government benefits well into the 20th century. She married a 90 year-old when she was a teen.

[KitSileya]

38. They lived into the 21st century, actually.

Maudie Hopkins, the last known Confederate widow, died in 2008, while one of the last Union widows, Gertrude Janeway, died in 2003.

[Generic Other]

41. Our elders knew how to arrange marriages

so that they benefited the most people possible. Those two widows are an example.

And our own founding father George Washington married a wealthy older widow. Someone should have been deported instead.

And somewhere a lonely neglected senior has an empty home that could bustle with life if a marriage of convenience was arranged that benefited both. Sad.

[Hekate]

115. What a crock

[Me.]

30. Yes They Have

But when dealing with immigration these days the entire scenario has changed from what it was and if you read this thread you'll see that such marriages are a viewed in very serious matter and not to be treated lightly.

[iemitsu]

32. I know several couples who have had to deal with American immigration rules

as a result of marriages they have contracted. One of my brothers is involved in such a marriage. Lots of hoops but in the end America could not negate the marriage or the citizenship status of his children.

[Me.]

42. I Have A Nephew Who Married A Girl From Germany

And we made sure they consulted an immigration lawyer once they realized their intentions. And there are marriages with people from other countries. But to advise people to simply go find a senior to marry is putting both of those people at risk and could have severe consequences. And as I said, marriage is no guarantee against deportation.

[Generic Other]

26. Are you saying DACA kids never marry American citizens?

What is the status of those marriages?

[Me.]

33. I Cannot Say That

But I would assume that as up to now they thought they were safe and saw no need to marry for 'convenience'.

As others in this thread have pointed out this matter is treated very seriously by ICE and further, being married to an American is no guarantee against deportation.

[Generic Other]

37. So DACA kids married to American citizens already

are going to be deported as well? Is this really legal? It is certainly immoral.

[Me.]

44. Who Can Say

But marriage is no guarantee and we have a vicious, racist Attorney General and ICE on steroids. I think I remember a man who voted for 45 and is married to an American woman was shocked when he learned he was going to be deported.

Edited to Add: Now the man below is not DACA but is married to an American, has a business and children.

"I don't think ICE is out there to detain anyone and break families, no," Beristain told CNN affiliate WSBT in March, shortly after her husband, Roberto Beristain was detained by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

On Wednesday, Beristain was proven wrong as ICE split her family across two countries.”

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/us/undocumented-husband-deported/index.html

[Generic Other]

49. This is a heartbreaking story

American family values.

I hope his family can be re-united. Maybe time for the whole family to board up their thriving business and embark on a life adventure abroad while they await a court ruling. Sounds like his community will be the poorer for losing him though.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

110. The marriages would be valid. They just can't be used to benefit their immigration status.

[Hekate]

119. Why do you keep saying "kids"? As Rachel sometimes says, there is a real squick factor...

...to your line of reasoning.

"Marriage" of any kind presumes "consummation." You know, SEX. Now with consenting adults not under duress this is not a problem. Likewise it is not a problem if they choose to never physically consummate, as long as they were not lied to about this eventuality. Sex is a conjugal right. The law has always addressed it.

HOWEVER, with youths (or "kids" as you keep referring to them) or persons under duress (as is certainly the case with people threatened with deportation), physical consummation becomes a matter of financial or other transaction not related to love or the usual bonds of marriage. Rape, even.

Hey, girlie, I married you and you owe me.

You, Generic Other, are really wedded to your bright idea, but frankly it stinks.

[L. Coyote]

101. None. You just go out and get married.

The hoops are when you want to get a US VISA.

[Me.]

104. Well They Could

But that would in no way guarantee a solution as suggested in this thread or alleviate the ICE issue and spare them possible deportation

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

4. If they marry a citizen do the get to stay automatically?

Why do I doubt this?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

67. No.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/us/undocumented-husband-deported/index.html

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

71. That's what I thought.

Which means the OP is incredibly wrong-headed.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. People who enter into sham marriages to avoid immigration enforcement

are prosecuted harshly - prison sentences of up to 5 years and fines of up to $250,000 for both parties. Furthermore, an immigrant who gets married to a citizen to avoid immigration laws will forfeit forever any chance at a green card or permanent citizenship. ICE would very closely examine the "marriage" of a 22-year-old DACA participant and a senior citizenship - they don't check to see if you're having sex but they look at everything else. A prenup would be a particularly strong signal that the "marriage" was contrived. This is a very, very bad idea.

[Ms. Toad]

9. Don't be so sure the won't check to see if you are having sex . . .

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/what-happens-green-card-marriage-interview.html

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. They might check to see if you have children, and will interview neighbors

about what your relationship seems like. As far as I know they don't spy on you in the bedroom or demand copies of your home-made porn videos, but they do ask a lot of rather personal questions to find out whether your marriage is the real thing.

[Generic Other]

28. An 80-year-old who hasn't gotten pregnant?

I suppose ICE will check if the couple has had fertility treatments?

And who defines whether a marriage is the real thing? If they live together, care for each other, etc.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

65. ICE holds interviews of immigrants who apply for green cards

on the basis of marriage, and the spouse is interviewed, too. If I were to haul my wrinkly old carcass to one of these interviews along with my 45-years-younger "spouse," that alone would raise more red flags than you'd see in Moscow on May Day. They would not expect children, but they would wonder why my "husband" wanted to marry my old ass in the first place - because they would also discover that I haven't got enough money to make me attractive to a 22-year-old, who would certainly be out banging someone more age-appropriate. And that fact would also be discovered because they interview the couple's friends and neighbors. If you want to help out by entering into a fraudulent marriage be my guest, but I don't want to spend my last years in a federal prison. Orange is not my best color.

[Generic Other]

70. You sound like you'd be a great spouse

Feisty and fun. Smart too. Why wouldn't a 22-year-old want to hook up? Life is not always predictable.

[Shrike47]

77. When they saw your big smile and the twinkle in your eye, they would understand what you get.

[Ms. Toad]

78. One of the questions in the sample interview is about birth control,

so the expectation is that a marriage includes sexual activity (and they are asking about it indirectly by asking about birth control). A natural follow-up question is to ask directly whether you are having sex, how frequently, etc. Especially during separate interviews - so they can compare your answers.

From a marriage visa article focusing on same gender couples, here are questions they are told to expect:

Deeply personal questions
Apart from questions about monogamy, other questions asked about couples’ sex lives include, for example:

When did you last have sex? Where?
How often do you have sex?
Are you planning to have children? How many?
Do you use birth control? What type?
Is your husband circumcised?
Does your spouse have any tattoos in private places?
At what point did you realize you were gay? Have you had sex with someone of the opposite gender?

http://lawandborder.com/interview-questions-about-sex/

[Generic Other]

86. Perverts

I bet they really get off on this crap! If the marriages have yet to take place the questions would not apply. None of their damn business anyway!

[Ms. Toad]

90. They may - but they are to prevent exactly what you proposed:

Marriages that take place for the purpose of gaining a legal right to be in the country - rather than beause the couple truly intends to make a life together. The only way they have figured out to do that is to ask the kind of questions a married couple would know about each other on the basis of having lived together as married partners.

To the extent you believe the US should be able to keep people out of the country based on an accident of birth, they are legitimate questions (i.e. you believe we should have borders that exclude). I don't happen to agree to the premise, but I am in the minority - even on DU.

[Bradshaw3]

48. Logic, common sense and facts

How dare you bring that to this discussion.

[Generic Other]

50. You find Trump's actions logical?

You think deporting 800,000 productive individuals represents a commonsense approach?

What alternatives would you favor? We have six months to formulate a strategy.

[Bradshaw3]

102. This is hardly worth responding to but ...

No, I think ignoring the law regarding a sham marriage is not common sense. The reasons why were laid out for you in his response. A bad strategy is not the answer.

[struggle4progress]

100. +

[Ms. Toad]

8. Not a smart idea.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/marriage-green-card-legal-process-problems.html

[pnwmom]

10. Marriage fraud is a felony and a Federal crime.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter1-9.html

Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

Those charged with marriage fraud may also be charged with visa fraud, harboring an alien, conspiracy, or making false statements; each charge carries additional prison sentences and financial penalties.

[hfojvt]

15. I am open to a real marriage to a 19 year old (and up)

My guess is that the young ladies will decide "there are worse things than being deported".

[Generic Other]

22. An arranged marriage could work

We need 800,000 Americans to step up. Screw ICE. The marriages are supposed to help not make things worse. They are paper marriages. Let the government prove they are not sincere.

I am not so sure deportation is the better choice.

[Generic Other]

17. Well we must always obey unjust laws

especially where Trump is concerned. Are we not smart enough to circumvent evil laws? Who is to say that a senior marrying a young person who lives in their home is not a legitimate marriage?

There used to be laws against gay marriage and interracial marriage too.

[delisen]

20. You have got a point.

The old days when marriage had the religion-based vows of "to death do us part" are over.

In an age of pre-nuptials andmult-page marriage contracts, and open marriages, who can say anymore what a "real" marriage is.

[Croney]

11. So if I were single, some young man would marry me

and be stuck with an elderly woman as his wife? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Plus it would never work legally.

[delisen]

18. Maybe he wouldn't feel stuck if you are a high net worth

power player. Age isn't a necessarily a deal killer and marriage is a deal.

[Generic Other]

19. Depends on how one defines marriage

The DACA kid would be like an adopted family member.

As I said, both the parties would benefit.

[Not Ruth]

16. Only if it is a real marriage

[Timmygoat]

21. You mean

Like Trump did when he married his present wife?

[Generic Other]

23. Except she was forced to service the old goat

One would hope this is not what would happen.

And the divorce papers could be signed after the citizenship papers.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

132. Do you have any idea of just how long it would take

for the DACA half of this sham marriage to get citizenship papers? It wouldn't quite be like going down to the DMV and getting a license the week after you're old enough to do so.

[Generic Other]

134. I admit I hope the forms would overwhelm ICE

I consider the marriage of an American to a non-citizen to be a personal issue not one subject to government control. Silly me.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

136. And such an overewhelming number of forms

would NOT speed things up. It would slow them down. Meanwhile, the people you are so concerned about would still be subject to deportation, and no closer to getting a green card, let alone citizenship.

And you are beyond silly in your thinking. The marriage itself isn't exactly subject to control. But the status of the non-citizen is still very much subject to government control. As many others have already pointed out, BOTH the American citizen and the non-citizen are subject to stiff fines and jail time if the government decides the marriage was fraudulently undertaken only to obtain the green card.

That said, all I can add is that I hope you've already married one of the deserving DACA and are right now filing the paperwork so he or she can get the green card.

[Generic Other]

137. I am already married to an American citizen

thus protecting myself from deportation. Who knows, I may have fraudulently engaged in the marriage just to get a wedding ring out of the poor sap.

[janterry]

29. They would have to return to their country of origin for up to 3 years

and that's if anyone believed the marriage (or if a sham marriage could even last that long - people, even seniors, might want to have other relationships - even marriage. Likewise, after 3 or more years, the DACA recipient might be ready for another relationship, or children).

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/undocumented-illegal-immigrant-get-green-card-marriage-citizen-resident.html

[Generic Other]

34. Many people have open marriages

I find it impossible to believe so many are unwilling to even consider the idea.

DACA kids leaving the country will impact all seniors. The GOP will clamor to cut social security and medicare benefits as they will claim less money is being collected. The economy will be impacted. People's investments will take a hit. And many seniors will be neglected and alone. These young people help drive our economy, provide needed services to all. They were promised a chance, and a traitorous pervert who represents the worst sort of American has stolen it from them.

We citizens need to take action.

[janterry]

35. I've had some contact with the Feds

working in the prisons. I think that many things will work. But not this. Arguing an open marriage to an investigator - when it's patently false - well - that won't work.

I suppose you might imagine a scenario where close to 1 million marriages will clog up the process sufficiently to call for some kind of action. Political action is a good thing - and making things harder is also good.

I'm waiting to see what Congress comes up with. I don't think we will actively deport close to 1million (the cost alone will be a deterrent).

[Generic Other]

40. I think the clogging up of the system is a valid idea

I am just wondering why the government believes they can prevent American citizens from marrying any other person of legal age. Or that they can judge the sincerity of a person's marriage using some rubric.

Land of the free.

[Motownman78]

59. Watch 90-Day Fiancee on TLC

And you will understand why the Feds are up in people's business.

[Generic Other]

61. They should not be allowed to decide for citizens

As long as they maintain the pretense of a marriage by sharing a home and living as a couple, the government has no place judging.

[Motownman78]

72. The Government also

has an obligation to protect people from getting scammed and used by people coming over, promising to love their partner, then bailing once they get the Green Card.

[Generic Other]

76. What many on this thread seem to be telling me

is that Americans are not free to marry whom they choose.

[Jim Lane]

96. You've misunderstood. You're free to marry whom you choose.

What you're not free to do is to deceive the government, under oath, about the legally relevant aspects of that marriage.

If you marry an undocumented immigrant (DACA or not), and your spouse continues to deal with the ICE on whatever other grounds are available, there's no problem. If, however, your spouse seeks permanent residence ("green card" status) on the basis of being the spouse of a citizen, then the government is entitled to investigate to determine the truth of the assertion.

You have no claim that this inquiry is an invasion of your privacy, because you put the matter in issue. For example, your medical records are private. The government can't force your doctor to testify, even when that testimony would be relevant to some court case. But if you're injured in an auto accident, and you bring suit for the injuries, you're putting your physical condition in issue. The defendant can compel the hospital to turn over your records and can compel your treating physician to testify about what he or she observed as to your condition. An application based on an alleged marriage has the same effect of waiving some privacy rights.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

106. You can *marry* whomever you want.

The catch is that the marriage can't be used to get someone a green card if that's the only purpose for it. If the fraud is discovered the marriage won't be annulled; you'll still be legally married. But you'll both be in jail.

[lunamagica]

62. I know someone who (legitimatelly) married a citizen and became one without leaving the country

I don't know how she did it. Maybe it was different because she was under TPS protection

[iemitsu]

31. I like your idea Generic.

Americans can marry who they want. Whether or not DUers approve this thread is valuable a seed information.

[Lee-Lee]

36. You clearly have never seen the processes used to vet marriages for immigration

It's pretty rigorous and the people who do it are good at spotting fraud.

They just busted a ring of people doing exactly what you suggest here and they are all facing Federalcharges, including people who didn't get married but just help arrange and coordinate them.

[bearsfootball516]

39. Yeah

I give credit for trying to find a solution, but this would be a bad, bad idea.

[Me.]

46. Precisely

And I hope those who don't understand the danger involved with such a solution don't actually advise anyone to try it.

[essaynnc]

45. How about we adopt a few kids????

I already have two adopted kids, the process for the Republic of Georgia was a nightmare, but it was worth it. I'll take a few more kids!!!!

[Generic Other]

51. Apparently that is illegal too

Must be under 18.

[Ms. Toad]

93. That's not entirely correct.

But in most states, you cannot adopt an adult unless that person lived with you - as a member of your family - as a minor.

My spouse was finally permitted to adopt our daughter when she was 25. (We have lived as a family since before she was born.)

So, while not illegal (in the way that your marriage scheme is), very few of the DACA individuals would meet the legal criteria for adoption.

[Sunlei]

95. That you can do, but you need to get a decent lawyer to advise & do paper work with birth parent(s)

And you'd have to find the Mother, parents who are willing to give up rights to their children...I very much doubt that would be easy.

Though there are many, many undocumented, minors locked up in Republicans detention camp PRISONS..who have no USA citizen family at all. Many who crossed border points with no adults.

Those USA detention camps are 'for profit' , I very much doubt Republicans want those children to have normal lives- stock holders make a nice profit off of $300 a DAY 'housing''school' feed" for each minor prisoner.

[stevenleser]

47. The sentiment is good but the consequences are too severe. Don't forget, Trump is the person

ultimately in charge of enforcement of federal law. I am sure his next move would be to direct those evaluating these marriages to be even more dubious of these kinds of marriages and to perform a lot of additional investigations as to whether they are legit marriages.

[Generic Other]

52. It's this idea that there are some marriages more legit than others

that I find distasteful. Marrying someone for humanitarian reasons seems legit to me whether legal or not.

There was a time they questioned the legitimacy of gay and interracial marriages too. My parents married a year after they changed the laws.

[stevenleser]

98. Hard to argue with that. I guess the idea of an intent to defraud/subvert the immigration process

is the issue.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

133. It's NOT about some marriages being more legit than others.

It's about an intention to defraud. Why are you having so much trouble understanding that?

[jberryhill]

53. Hang on, lemme divorce my wife first

I told her that I was going to be helping a nice young Latina lady, and she went and changed the code on our front door lock!

[dembotoz]

54. seems that the new models are coming out and all over tv are trade in deals

[Generic Other]

57. Lots of futurists think we will have robot companions soon

Then you can talk of new models every year.

I'd rather support marriage between humans.

[jberryhill]

107. That was my wife's first husband, from what I understand

[Generic Other]

55. I didn't advise you to break your current marriage vows

Don't you have an old invalid aunt who needs a guy who can drive after dark?

[jberryhill]

109. I wouldn't inflict her on anyone

She's nice enough, but my uncle eventually took to living in a shed in the backyard.

It worked for them, though.

[BainsBane]

56. Marriages of convenience don't help immigration matters

Marrying an immigrant or foreign national is already difficult. They interrogate you endlessly.

Besides, the DACA youth deserve to live on their own terms, as free Americans.

[Generic Other]

60. Can the courts keep them here

or do we watch heartbreaking Valentine's Day stories in 6 months as 100,000s are released at the border. This will look as bad as Exec Order 9066 did during WW2. They will not be able to spin it away when they create a refugee camp at the border. No wall will protect Americans from witnessing the chaos created. Sarah Huckabee will not be able to spin it all away.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

73. The wouldn't be dropping 100,000

such "spouses" all at once at the border. They deport them in drips and drabs, and in ways that tend not to garner a lot of notice or coverage.

And that's even assuming you could get a whole lot of older singles to be willing to partake in such a "marriage." Me? I'm a senior citizen, divorced, so theoretically I'd be a good candidate. But I'm not about to "marry" a total stranger, nor am I going to let such a stranger live in my home. I do have a certain amount of net worth, but I want my children to benefit when I'm gone.

[Generic Other]

74. They don't normally have a backlog of 800,000 people

None of us want to see this happen, but that is a large number of people to hide. They will be missed.

[jberryhill]

112. I've been in two marriages

I still might try one of them "convenient" ones for a change.

There can be a mix of motives. I'm led to understand that people in arranged marriages report similar levels of satisfaction as in marriages of inconvenience.

[Sunlei]

75. i logged in to rec you & your idea is EXCELLENT. 'married couples' would NEED legal help!

The DACA person would probably still be picked up by local police/ice and need legal help to get out of the immigration 'jail'.

Republicans pogrom to deport- system IN America has the courts backed up 2 years. Ice/police pressure arrested to deport immediately or wait years for their right to see a immigration judge to plead their 'case'.

The case can be they need asylum, war in their country, they're gay and fear death if deported or they are married to American citizen or have American born children.

REPUBLICANS THIS IS YOUR PARTIES FAULT_ YOU ARE 2017s NAZIS & HATERS!!

YOU ARE COSTING OUR LOCAL POLICE TIME THEY COULD USE vs REAL CRIME. YOU HAVE SPENT BILLIONS USA CAN'T AFFORD TO BUILD WALLS AND HUNT DOWN UNDOCUMENTED INNOCENT PEOPLE.

[Generic Other]

80. Not easy to convince Americans to defy the law

but we need to take some kind of action! I wish I was wise enough to know how to move forward.

[Flaleftist]

82. I think there are quite a few people who have no problem defying the law if

they believe that law to be morally wrong. I don't think the marriage thing is practical, but perhaps offering shelter and protection to them until cooler heads prevail and the law is changed is an option. If the deportations start, they will be better off somewhere other than their listed address in any government database.

[Sunlei]

83. I understand & it really sucks because Republicans pile on the horrors on undocumented & 'work visa'

millions of people, who have lived good lives IN America for decades. They have mortgages, they pay property taxes, they buy cars, they have bank accounts, they own businesses, they are college grads- they ARE Americas local economy.

Republicans pogrom towards undocumented takes billions of dollars of local resources and TIME away from local societies across America.

Republican party and their rabid fan-base of screaming bigots are the modern day nazi party. just sub in the word Jews everywhere you see the word illegal person.

[Ms. Toad]

92. No attorney who wishes to continue to practice law

would aid this scheme. Aiding your client in committing fraud is grounds for suspending your license in virtually all states.

[Sunlei]

94. I understand. I looked into "adopting" undocumented persons with my Lawyer.

I still give much love to people like the OP who look for, think about and post OPs to discuss ways to save people from the cruelty of Republicans deportation prisons.

[Ms. Toad]

97. Attorneys can provide advice as to whether it is legal,

they just can't aid you in carrying out an illegal scheme.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

111. People who help others enter into sham marriages can end up in jail, too,

which could include their attorneys.

[jberryhill]

113. Not if they've been advised properly

Who's to say what's a "sham"? Counseling clients who want to ensure their marriage is not mistaken for one is perfectly fine.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

120. Of course that's true. But if a couple came into your office

and told you they were getting married so one of them could get a green card, and asked you what to say to fool the immigration officials, would you give them advice about how to make the marriage seem legitimate during that interview? Or would you warn them that what they wanted to do was all kinds of illegal and you weren't going to participate?

[jberryhill]

131. I don't do immigration law

But I would imagine that getting into the subject of "are these people getting married for 'legitimate reasons'" is probably not a productive inquiry.

My parents did not even speak a common language when they decided that's what they wanted to do. Apparently, he looked pretty good in a uniform and was a ticket out, and she looked pretty good. Does that make it a sham?

[Ms. Toad]

121. I was responding specifically to the suggestion that people entering into these marriages

needed legal help.

I previously responded to the risks that aren't specific to attorneys earlier.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

124. Yes, I see that. There seems to be some confusion (not yours) on this thread

about how much trouble people can get into for entering into a sham marriage for the sole purpose of getting a green card or other immigration advantages, or for aiding people to do that. Of course people should be able to get legal advice on the matter, which would consist of something like, "Jeez, don't do that!" But a lawyer can't advise them about how to deceive immigration officials.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

135. Having American born children

has not kept people from being deported. You do know that, right?

[WinkyDink]

79. "the kids who pay for your social security"?? Like we seniors did NOT pay?? Yeah, don't EVEN.

[Generic Other]

84. Sorry, I meant their payments are still incoming

Ours seem to have been spent. And yes, that's another issue.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

88. Well, keep in mind that Social Security is

always paid out of current revenues. When we were working our FICA went to those already on SS. Now that we're collecting, it's those currently working who are paying ours.

[Hekate]

81. Ew

[pintobean]

85. No shit

Nambla will be all over this.

[Generic Other]

87. I was speaking of consenting adults

but you are obviously one step ahead of where my mind goes.

[pintobean]

89. Maybe you shouldn't use the word "kids" then.

The RWNJs are laughing at you (and the rest of DU) over this.

[L. Coyote]

99. Old men marrying very young women, then they collect surviving spouse Soc Security for 50 years

and maybe even a government pension benefit. Make the system pay for being hateful.

[Not Ruth]

103. The marriages should be same sex and non Christian to really annoy Trump voters

[sarah FAILIN]

105. There are people I know legit married to illegals

They can't get a green card for them. One woman works in the legal community and says she and her husband are afraid to even go out on a date for fear he will be scooped up and deported. She said they have tried and tried. Being married to a citizen is no guarantee.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

108. "Illegals"?

[sarah FAILIN]

114. I'm not "pc"

Whatever the word of the day is, I'm not going to change to be pc.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

116. "PC" is the term the right-wingers use to excuse racial slurs and bigoted terminology.

I didn't expect to see "illegals" or a claim that it's OK to use it because "I'm not PC" here on DU. No human being is illegal.

[sarah FAILIN]

122. Well maybe you are entitled to your opinion

I think I am entitled to mine. I think illegal is illegal. Making up new words to describe them and their situation is silly imo. The difference is I am not opposed to them becoming legal.

I really have never known you to roll out the welcome mat to me in the past though, so I'm not going to wait on it now.

Have a great evening.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

125. When did I ever give you a hard time? I don't even remember your name.

[sarah FAILIN]

128. Several times

Not that you would remember.

I remember your name well.

[Ms. Toad]

123. Do you also call people who speed illegals?

It's not about being "pc," it is about not adopting right wing terminology that is intended to dehumanize people they perceive as foreign and less desireable.

[sarah FAILIN]

127. People who speed are..

Speeders. Pretty simple. Illegals is short for illegal immigrants. It's not a right wing term, it is what we always called illegals before someone decided it was negative to call them that. Ultra PC people decided to change what they called them. I don't see any reason to change it. They came here illegally. I don't have a problem with them staying though.

[Ms. Toad]

129. "illegals" it isn't what we (other than right wingers) have always called them.

Neither I, nor anyone in my circle of progressive friends who have worked on social justice issues - including immigration - for decades have ever used that term to refer to human beings.

"Illegals" is a term used by the right wing to reduce human beings to nothing more than a derrogatory status descriptor. We need to treat human beings with dignity and respect.

[sarah FAILIN]

130. Nobody that I know has ever used any other term

I have heard illegals say they are illegal.

Changing their word descriptor does not change anything. Arguing about a word changes even less.

[Ms. Toad]

138. Then perhaps you need to find friends who are more respectful of the dignity of all people

not just ones who were born in the US.

[dsc]

118. I hope this thread has shown you that just marrying a citizen opens the keys to citizenship and

green cards. I used to think the same thing but now know better. My cousin was married to a woman from Brazil who had overstayed her visa at some point. She had to jump through vast numbers of hoops to get her green card, and she is now a citizen despite his untimely death. I also have a friend who is in the class of dreamers. He is married to a citizen (male citizen) so his marriage is only a couple of years old despite the relationship being considerably longer in duration. He is currently having to spend thousands of dollars in an attempt to get to stay here which we don't know how successful it will be. In short, marriage isn't an automatic green card.

[roamer65]

126. Nullification is what is needed.

CA, WA and OR hopefully step and take the bull by horns and nullify Dump's declaration.