Teacher tells 2 students wearing Make America Great Again shirts to leave her class

[babylonsister]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/latest-news/article171195527.html

Teacher tells 2 students wearing ‘Make America Great Again’ shirts to leave her class
By Amy B Wang
September 04, 2017 1:39 PM


A Georgia school district has apologized after one of its teachers asked two high school students wearing “Make America Great Again” T-shirts to leave her classroom.

The incident took place at River Ridge High School on Aug. 31, when a teacher “erroneously told two students their shirts with campaign slogans were not permitted in class,” Cherokee County School District spokeswoman Barbara P. Jacoby said.

“Her actions were wrong, as the ‘Make America Great Again’ shirts worn by the students are not a violation of our School District dress code,” Jacoby said in a statement. “The teacher additionally - and inappropriately - shared her personal opinion about the campaign slogan during class.”

snip//

The incident drew sharp criticism from some Georgia officials.

“It’s just shocking - you can’t do that to kids,” Republican state Rep. Earl Ehrhart told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “That’s so wrong on so many levels. That individual doesn’t need to be anywhere near a classroom ever again.”

Republican state Rep. John Carson, whose district includes River Ridge High School, told the newspaper in an email it was attempt to silence conservative free speech.

more...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/latest-news/article171195527.html

[NightWatcher]

1. They were trump fans, so odds were they were being dicks

Maybe the teacher just didn't want political talk in class.

[democratisphere]

2. maga may be free speech, but it is also a BIG FAT LIE.

I'm with the teacher.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

3. I'm with the Constitution.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. +1

[Lochloosa]

12. +2

[democratisphere]

13. Too bad maga is attempting to cancel THAT!

[Dr. Strange]

20. Also a shame that some on the left want to cancel that.

[sarisataka]

21. .

[LanternWaste]

23. They are merely a statistical aberration on the left rather than a standard as is on the right.

They are merely a statistical aberration on the left rather than a standard as is on the right.

But it's delicious fun to allow them the pretense of both credibility and strength to both look and feel more righteous when we raise our arms in righteous fury against them... and it allows us to throw shade on the left at the same time.

[Dr. Strange]

61. Aw, someone's unhappy about us lefties defending free speech.

[ryan_cats]

14. YES! n/t.

YES!

[bluepen]

19. As much as I hate "MAGA"... +1

[ecstatic]

27. Can kids wear Confederate flag t-shirts in school? nt

[FLPanhandle]

4. The teacher crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed

The teacher of all people should have known better.

[AngryAmish]

5. Every Trump fan should be kicked out of school

They are too stupid and lazy to get anything out of it.

[cwydro]

6. Oh ok.

That's a great idea.

[ryan_cats]

15. To

To the camps perhaps??? Arbeit macht Frei???

Yeah it has been done and then there is the whole genocide of people you disagree with but by all means, take the first step down that path.

[LanternWaste]

25. Seems more a visceral reaction on a message board

Seems more a visceral reaction on a message board rather than the sinister first step you imply.

But by all means, allow a simple and visceral venting both a power and a credibility it simply does not warrant... as doing so allows us such a great opportunity to advertise the pretense of our righteousness.

I get it... I learned in church a long time that many people will read things literally and allow for no other interpretations if it validates our biases. Human nature. Natch.

[ryan_cats]

75. Those

Those thorium mantles affected you more than you realize.

Someday, you will find the courage to respond to someone responding to you, someday.

[maxsolomon]

51. you slippery-sloped Godwin's Law

can't argue with that.

[ProgressiveValue]

36. And flayed!!!

Where's Ramsey Bolton when you need him? We simply can not allow those with different politics to exist.

: :

[JimGinPA]

8. I Wonder If White Hoods Or Swastika Armbands Are Permitted...

I mean, they send the same message.

[democratisphere]

11. So true.

[EL34x4]

9. Tinker v. Des Moines is the landmark Supreme Court ruling that covered this.

It's taught in Constitution 101. So either the teacher was ignorant of this historical ruling (which I can't imagine) or she just didn't care.

[logosoco]

10. She should have turned that into a teaching moment, for those kids and others in the class.

Asking those kids exactly what they think would make America great, talking about how the person who used that phrase is not making anything great and given examples of how in many ways they are making it worse.

Someone told those kids that slogan was good, it's just as easy to show examples of how it is not.

[Yupster]

30. Yeah - that would be a way to make it worse

Teachers shouldn't argue politics with their students in class. There's no win for the teacher to be had there.

[Baitball Blogger]

16. Bad move on her part. America is still America.

She got caught by the framing.

I think kids should also be able to wear Black lives Matter tee-shirts to school. But, that's just me.

[hlthe2b]

17. It would be hard to look out at those students and not react nor treat them differently...

but unless she wanted to "reclaim" the phrase as sort of a generic platitude that ALL embrace, regardless of party in a very cautious non-judgemental discussion with the kids, she should have simply ignored it UNLESS she saw other kids being bullied/disrupted by those wearing.

That said, I certainly understand how hard it is to teach young kids who have been "brainwashed" by Trump ideals and tactics--much less the science-disdaining fundy-religious parents.

These cretins are damaging this country for generations to come.

[edhopper]

18. There is no free speech in schools

they can have codes that restrict speech and dress, even political speech.
Now it depends if this school has a code that restricts dress that promotes one political ideology over another.
If so she was in the right. If not, she was wrong.
It's about the school rules, not the Constitution.

[onenote]

37. untrue

While there are more limits to free speech in a school setting than would apply elsewhere, the Supreme Court stated in Tinker v. Des Moines that "First Amendment rights, applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment, are available to teachers and students. It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate. This has been the unmistakable holding of this Court for almost 50 years."

If the shirt isn't disruptive or offensive, a student has a first amendment right to wear it (absent a non-content based policy regarding t-shirts).

[brooklynite]

65. Neither is there the right to impose political speech at the discretion of the teacher.

[edhopper]

73. true

[TheDebbieDee]

22. If these kids had been wearing BLM t-shirts

They would have been asked to leave the class room and there would have been *crickets*...

[hunter]

24. Our schools don't allow gang clothing.

Our elementary and middle schools have uniforms, the middle schools having the greatest restrictions -- black pants, white shirt or blouse, and neutral (no gang colors) shoes and outerwear. A kid can be sent home for having the wrong color shoelaces.

In high school the dress code is a little more relaxed, but teachers have great latitude in deciding what's appropriate and what's not.

Damn straight these little white gangsters should be sent home. Everyone knows what they're saying.

[onenote]

39. The dress codes you describe are not content based.

Big difference.

If a school doesn't have a non-content based policy against t-shirts, and the message on the shirts is not causing an actual disruption to the class or is offensive, then it is protected.

And while some may think MAGA is an offensive or disruptive message, consider that in Tinker v. Des Moines, the Supreme Court upheld a student's right to wear a black armband to protest the Vietnam War -- an expressive action that undoubtedly was offensive to some.

[hunter]

46. Teachers here have a lot of latitude because gang wear is so fluid.

It's impossible to entirely codify whatever clothing items the gangs will come up with next, but it's important to the safety of the kids that they don't display any affiliations. That's why most parents support the strict dress codes.

These little trumpets were dressed as they were to intimidate and offend other students, and to create a disturbance (which they did), not to protest a war, express their religious beliefs, or anything else of substance.

The school needs a tighter dress code so students and teachers don't have to tolerate this kind of foolishness.

I had plenty of experience as a public school student exercising my Constitutional rights. My mom was a Jehovah's Witness and then we were Quakers (after the Witnesses rejected my mom for her political activities.) So I got to ignore the Pledge of Allegiance, not even standing up for it, because it was against my religion. I don't think wearing a white pride maga shirt is equivalent to that, or to the black arm band. It seems to me more equivalent to a gang affiliation, which is why I framed it as such.

[onenote]

49. What was the nature of the "disturbance" to which you refer?

There is nothing in the story posted with the OP that indicates any disturbance was caused.

[hunter]

62. It's in the news, there was a disturbance.

I'm certain the teacher correctly ascertained the nature of the shirts.

To bad her school administration didn't back her up, but school administrators are frequently sniveling cowards.

[onenote]

67. Neither the article in the OP or any other article I've found about this mentions any disturbance

If there was a disturbance and it was "in the news" then certainly some article, somewhere, would mention it.

And, no, the disturbance caused by the teacher calling out the students doesn't count.

[HockeyMom]

50. Major difference

When I worked in NY, we had Hindu students who wore Saris to school and Jewish boys who wore Yamaka's. Certainly, any Christian student or staff could wear a small cross around their neck. I personally did not see any Hijabs where I worked, but if the others were allowed, those would have been also.

There was one boy in Middle School who was a Wiccan. He said that saying the pledge was against his religion. Worshiping a piece of cloth and a false God. Similar to the Jehovah Witnesses? He took bathroom breaks then. In Florida schools, we had quite a few Jehovah Witnesses students, and staff. They did not have to say the Pledge. I worked in a class with a TA who was a JW. When the Pledge was being said, she would go to the back of the room and do paperwork or check the supplies for the day.

Accommodating religious views in public schools is not the same as accommodating political views, and certainly not gang views.

[ecstatic]

26. That phrase is now considered hate speech, IMO.

Wearing it to class...? I can't see any other rationale besides bullying and intimidation. Especially when there are students who will be affected by the termination of DACA, which is being done under the (now) white supremacist banner of making America great again.

The teacher was right, the County is wrong, as usual. And when one of these MAGA assholes get punched in the face, hopefully the district will think twice about how to keep the peace in public schools. Are Confederate flag t-shirts allowed as well?

[mythology]

31. And hate speech still isn't illegal

But also you aren't an arbiter of what is hate speech by yourself. Just like a Republican can't say a kid couldn't wear a Colin Kaepernick jersey or a Clinton shirt because it's "hate" speech not matter how much they really really believe it is.

[Bradical79]

33. This isn't about legality

Generally hate symbols and hate speech are violations of any school's code of conduct. Freedom of speech in school classroms isn't absolute. Obviously this wouldn't hold up, and you can't ban support of POTUS, but what is or isn't hate speech isn't a concensus or both sides issue. It's hate speech because the slogan was explicity racist in nature, and the President currently surrounds himself with white supremecists while being one himself. These are provable facts. Kaepernick on the other hand objectively doesn't push a racist message. This isn't a matter of whether or not hate speech is subjective, but rather whether or not you support hate speech or recognize objective reality.

[hack89]

45. No it is not

what a silly thing to say. A certain portion of America may think that but it is not a large segment - it is definitely not a universal sentiment.

[brush]

28. BLM garment wearers have been thrown out without a peep.

[onenote]

48. There have been several instances where BLM shirts were banned and then the school had to apologize

If there are examples of BLM garment wearers "thrown out" of school without a peep, please share (although if it was without a peep, I'm not sure how anyone would know about it).

[brush]

53. Didn't you just state "several instances"?

[onenote]

54. yes. several instances where it happened, was protested, and the school apologized.

Not several instances where it happened and there wasn't a "peep" in response.

[brush]

57. OK. Not to the level of Congressmen inserting themselves into it though.

[Phoenix61]

29. Why I like school uniforms

Polo shirts and slacks or skirts. Solves all kinds of dress code dilemmas especially at the high-school level.

[Bradical79]

34. Same

Kids might not like it, but it alleviates some of these problems. I wish we had them in high school, would have save me some embarasment (I'm colorblind and had no fashion sense lol).

[cwydro]

38. Agree.

Completely.

[HockeyMom]

41. Ironically,

that South Florida district that mandated uniforms for elementary and middle school, didn't at the HS level. Politics wasn't the issue but proper school attire definitely was. You are going to school, not the BEACH to get a tan. Unbelievable what some of those teen girls looked like. Talk about a distraction during school. No skimpy tank tops and short shorts should have been part of the dress code. To give equal time to males, no board shorts showing your briefs also.

Sorry, to get OT, but dress codes isn't only about political views.

[Phoenix61]

43. No it's not

What cracked me up the most was the 8th grade boys started wearing ties. They weren't required to but it gave them a chance to express themselves, lots of Loony Tunes etc. Talk about a bunch of sharp dressed young men.

[Willie Pep]

52. Yes I agree.

I went to Catholic elementary and high school and we never had issues over clothes unless somebody broke the dress code which was actually pretty lenient compared to other Catholic schools.

Schools should be about learning first and foremost. Self-expression is great and all but not when it comes at the expense of creating a strong learning environment. Clothes can become a distraction. This isn't even getting into the issue of poorer kids getting made fun of for not having all the latest clothes and such, which is another problem.

[Duppers]

76. Totally agree.

My child had to wear them in England and I love it.

[Bradical79]

32. It's a tough decision

On one hand it's a symbol of hatred and bigotry nearly up there with any other white supremecist symbol. On the other hand, you can't really tell students they can't support the POTUS. You know it's not a decision that will hold up.

[HockeyMom]

35. It was banned where I worked on LI

The students could not wear tshirts depicting anything political, professionals sports, religious, or considered a disruption in school. It actually started with sports. "Mets Suck". "Yankees Suck". It eventually spread to no writing at all (even Abercrombie & Fitch) on a Tshirt unless it was the school's logo or school's sports team. Pins and hats were deemed unacceptable also.

The latter applied to staff too, although bumper stickers on their cars was allowed.

If a student came into school wearing one of these shirts, they were sent to the Principal's office who made them turn the banned shirt inside out for the day, and a phone call was made to the parents telling them not to send their child into school in violation of this dress code.

Where I worked in Florida Public Schools, they had to wear Uniforms so it never was an issue.

[onenote]

40. A content neutral policy is fine.

[haele]

42. Did she do so on the basis of bullying or intimidating speech?

Were they disrupting the class and the process of education by wearing those shirts?
If there were members of the class who were harassed by these kids, she may well have been within her rights.

I grew up in the age of "plain or patterned shirts only", even though they started allowing tee-shirts, blue-jeans and shorter skirts (three inches above the knee!) if there were shorts or opaque stockings underneath by the time I was in high school.
No slogans or pictures. A monogram or discrete embroidered border, design, or badge was the only personalizing that might be allowed on our clothes. We still had individuality and were able to be creative, but there was no way that our clothes would be a distraction in class.

The excuse that not being able to wear political or other sort of statement tee is some form of "stifling" is bullshit.
They're in school to learn and hopefully develop creativity and confidence from within, not turn themselves into some sort of social network emoji.

Because ultimately, they're kids; any slogan, 'toon, or outward indication of preference becomes a weapon for those inclined to bully or show off. And that's all distractions when it comes to the learning process.
Plain tee shirt - (Wal-Mart - 6 for $10, and you can always dye them any color you want in the sink or in a pot with an extra $2.50 per a bottle of Dritz if you don't want to leave them white or black), or a decent shirt from Goodwill, SVdP's or a local thrift/consignment/yard sales.
Likewise, pants - and leggings, if they're allowed - can come from anywhere. Not allowing tees with slogans when they're in school and supposed to be learning (i.e., not protesting, worshipping, or being involved with political activities), unless they're an official school uniform shirt is not infringing on their First Amendment rights.

A dress code for a particular or organizational activity is legal under the First Amendment.

BTW, Git Offa My Lawn, ya punks! (waiving cane)

Haele

[onenote]

47. So do you think that wearing a black armband to protest the Vietnam War

should have been banned and that the Supreme Court got that case wrong? After all, in your view, those students should have been "learning" not "protesting".

[haele]

55. Actually, yes. Horrible thing to say, I know. But Math class is Math class, as is English...

And Science and Arts and History.

I was going to school - Elementary and Jr. High - during the height of the Vietnam war. I know what it was like to be a young student back then.
And my very liberal dad was a High School teacher the last two years we lived in California, so our family was very aware of what was going on.

Yes, the Vietnam war affected us - and it affected us strongly. So did the protests on Campus at the local University - both Berkley and University of Washington.

Between the ages of 9 and 15, my classmates and I couldn't help but discuss Vietnam - in the appropriate venues. History class, Geography, and later Civics. Because it was just as much a major part of our home lives as it was on TV or part of the historical context of American Politics.

For the 8 years of clearest memory of that time, I remember going to school with classmates who lost family members - uncles, cousins, brothers and fathers. I remember Mom having to stay home (she worked at the UW Geology/Biology building as a secretary) and my bedroom window being replaced (we lived 1/4 mile away from the campus) because of the spate of increasingly larger bombs that went off at 2am over the late spring/early summer as part of a few radical college student protest movements.

For the younger kids, this was the basic rules for most places as I was aware of.
Elementary school didn't have much in the way of rules. Most of those kids were too young to understand what was going on. In Jr. High School - and High School black armbands had to be cleared beforehand - it had to be for a member of the family. Along with wearing medals and later, POW bracelets - which became popular when I was in High School.

When my stepdaughter was in High School, there were marches for Mexican-American rights, anti-ICE, anti-Police Brutality. The local high schools rightly made an effort to maintain a safe space and assigned times for both learning and protesting, because the district learned from the walkouts and protests of the 1970's.
If the kids disrupted class or up and left to protest - not because of the curricula, but because they were angry or wanted to make a statement - they were only punished for interrupting the educational process that they were supposed to be in school for.

On edit - I noticed I didn't make it clear that the schools made every effort to accommodate the children that wanted to march when this happened, but it was understood that they were not to disrupt classes as they were in progress and interrupt the education of the kids who stayed or were struggling, but walk out between classes or before/after school.

The problem with protesting the Vietnam war in the K-12 schools is that school is still school, whether you think it's indoctrinating the students to be passive citizens or not.
There are children there who are confused enough just trying to make it through Basic Algebra, Foreign Language, or Chemistry, who need to spend time trying to figure out how to learn - for the subject matter to "click". A disruptive class environment is not helping their future, and most likely dooming them to be the next generation of cannon fodder because they hate not understanding and fall further and further behind.

Despite what the movies show, schools are still supposed to provide all children with basic education - and not just to stand up for justice or against perceived authority.

Haele

[onenote]

59. We'll just have to disagree on this one.

I, too, was in public school during the Vietnam War. I, too, had family members and friends of our family get drafted and in some cases not come home. When I was 12 and my brother was 18 and worried about being drafted, I thought there was no way I would have the same worries. But by the time I was a junior, the war was still waging, and I was a year away from facing the draft myself.

I marched against the war. And it wasn't just a "weekend" thing. I wore buttons protesting the war to school as was my right. And if someone wanted to wear a flag pin or stick a flag decal or a "support the troops" decal on their notebooks, that was their right too.

Learning isn't limit to reading, writing and arithmetic. It's learning about how to be a good citizen, too.

[spanone]

44. what if they were 'black lives matter' tee shirts? how would those republican reps feel?

bet a lot different

[Doreen]

56. At the beginning of each year in the schools that I

was in handed out papers stating simply that NO hats were allowed, NO apparel, pins, or patches that advertised alcohol, or cigarettes, and NO apparel, pins, or patches that advertised religion of any kind, and NO apparel, pins, or patches advertising anything political. As far as colors of gangs ( at least back then ) there were no rules because there never was a problem with gangs were I live. Gangs might now be a problem and that could of changed by now. The rules about the other stuff might have changed since then but I do not know.

[Va Lefty]

58. Last year at Halloween a local teacher came dressed as Hillary Clinton in a jumpsuit

Everyone got a great big Hee-Haw on that one. If I remember it was on faux and fiends greeted with approving titters

[RhodeIslandOne]

60. They should be thankful they are not being thrown out of the only country they know

Fucking little turds.

[BainsBane]

63. Not cool.

While I understand the impulse, they have a right to political expression, as long as there is no uniform school policy to prohibit such shirts.

[brooklynite]

64. The teacher deserved to be disciplined for this

First, there's nothing inherently offensive about the phrase "Make America Great Again".

Second, the teacher has no right to impose his/her political opinions on a class of students. If you'd oppose a conservative teacher reading Bible quotes or making students read books by Mark Levin, you can't give extra leeway to a progressive one.

Most importantly, this kind of stupidity is exactly what Trump folks want; it lets them complain that "they" (media, scientists, educators) are intolerant of "us" and our opinions.

An smart teacher would have engaged the students and the rest of the class to see what they actually think "MAGA" and Trump refer to.

[hunter]

71. There's nothing inherently offensive about red or blue shoelaces either.

Of a cartoon frog.

Nevertheless, the maga gear has become a symbol of white supremacists. That's just the way it is.

The administrators ought to have backed the teacher and that would have been the end of it.

In any high school there's almost always a kid or two in the office sent there for wearing inappropriate clothing, and sometimes it's for things that might seem quite trivial to an outsider, but are not trivial within the context of the classroom.

[randr]

66. She should have given them an assignment to list all the things that have made America great

[Joe941]

68. This is a form of hate speech - so this is very reasonable.

[no_hypocrisy]

69. As much as I don't like Trump and his MAGA, the students had their First Amendment rights

to wear the shirts to school.

My boss (whose funeral I just came home from) defended two boys in Bayonne, NJ in 2007 for wearing buttons they designed that said "No school uniforms" superimposed over a picture of Hitler Youth. They were threatened with suspension and they sued the school. My boss won at trial and on appeal.

Here is the opinion:

https://www.leagle.com/decision/20071147514fsupp2d63311081.xml

[lindysalsagal]

70. I know school law, and the teacher wasn't entirely wrong.

Full constitutional rights are not protected in schools because children are young and compelled by the state to reside in quite confined quaraters. They have no opportunity to remove themselves from stressful or threatening statements, verbal or written.

It would have been smarter for her to have the building administrator institute a no-political shirt policy on the following day. There are times when students are asked to turn offensive t shirts inside out to prevent other students from feeling targeted with hostility.

She also should not have taken a political side: There's no winning on that.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. If only someone were to print up "Make America Great Again through Bong Hits For Jesus" shirts

...then, see what happens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_v._Frederick

[JDC]

74. Totally wrong and not ok.

If a teacher was a Trump supporter and told two students wearing "I'm with Her" t-shirts, we'd lose it. I get the deeper meaning we all place on *45s nonsense and some of his extreme followers are shit people, but that's just our opinion. Facts may bear that out, but this fence has two sides. The teacher is wrong.