Focusing on Bernie Sanders as an individual is a harmful distraction

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

I did not support Bernie Sanders, I do not like Bernie Sanders, I don't think what happened in the 2016 primaries should have been allowed to happen and I would support any endeavor to make sure it never happens again. Although I voted for Clinton (for all the difference it made in California) I did not support her either because I didn't think she was nationally competitive.

However we have to be honest about what happened. Bernie Sanders found a significant amount of support among the leftist wing of our party. This was nothing but sincere idealism, there was nothing sinister about it. The problem however is that this expression was met with disingenuous allegations of deplorablism. You couldn't plot the differences between Clinton and Sanders supporters on any issue of gender, race or sexuality on a Venn diagram because there aren't any. Bernie supporters were no more motivated by misogyny than ISIS is motivated by Metamodernism but by casting Bernie supporters as our very own flavor of deplorable it became difficult to then unite behind Clinton as the camps meet with mutual suspicion or loathing.

Going into 2020 we are most likely going to have Gillibrand and Booker, a white woman and a black man running, both centrists with records and histories that the left aren't going to like very much. "The Tobacco Industry Lawyer" and "Hedge Fund Apologist School Privatizing Neo-Liberal."

We can not put ourselves in a position where the opponents of Gillibrand and Booker who sincerely enough support the other or follow another candidate entirely in the primaries (preferably an actual Democrat) are dishonestly attacked as misogynists and racists. You can not attack someone's character and then reasonably expect their loyalty when the dust settles.

I will not excuse anything the Bernie supporters did that was disruptive or otherwise inappropriate but the Clinton camp crossed a line that shouldn't have been crossed and must never be crossed again. If we allow the supporters of primary opponents to be attacked in this way we will tear ourselves to pieces and permanently ostracize not just leftists but the mainstream who find themselves having bet on the wrong horse.

[Ken Burch]

1. Thank you, Walter.

We seldom agree on issues, but I deeply respect you for what you've been saying on this subject.

[saidsimplesimon]

26. I agree Ken.

Thank you and Walter

[still_one]

2. Any self-identifed progressive who voted, but refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016

is NOT filled with some "sincere idealism"

That is bullshit.

This was the election of a lifetime. Everyone knew what was at stake, and what the differences was between trump and Hillary.

The Supreme Court, civil rights, women's rights, workers rights, the environment, healthcare, Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and on and on and on.

It would be one thing is those so-called self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee, actually regretted their decision, but they don't.

While the majority of Sanders' supporters voted for Hillary, enough of them didn't, and have no remorse in what they did.

Your equivalency OP, "both sides were bad", isn't going to cut it.

The comment that "the Hillary camp crossed some line that should never have been crossed", is bullshit.

One thing is pretty certain Hillary will not run again, and one would think that Sanders would have enough sense not to run again himself, because that well is so poisoned

[msongs]

3. the purpose of DU is to "elect more democrats". that's the guiding principle nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

5. Does assembling a circular firing squad help "elect more democrats"?

[Demsrule86]

18. Have you looked into what Our Revolution is doing? Or now Move On...there are others. They

don't have the numbers to win ...only to spoil. As usual we are supposed to watch as those who call themselves 'pure' and whatever destroy our chances in 18 and 20. These folks want to run liberal candidates in places like WVA and waste money and time primarying sitting Democratic Senators ( house members also) in red states...This could weaken Manchin and others thus endangering the seat...it turns me white hot with rage that they can not see the danger of Trump and not working their butts off to to take one Goddamn branch of government in order to stop him. These folks will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as they have done before.

[George II]

20. "Our Revolution" has stated openly, via their leader Nina Turner, that they could/would....

...support republicans over Democrats.

To me now, "Our Revolution" and anyone associated with them are no better than the Green Party, perhaps worse.

[Demsrule86]

22. Exactly...they are not progressives nor are they Democrats.

[George II]

24. Nina Turner said this in an interview with The Nation about a month or so ago:

CM: Will the group be endorsing non-Democrats?

NT: You know what, yes. We are open to it. And for me, I’ve also heard the senator say this lately too.....If there is a Republican or a Libertarian or Green Party person that believes in Medicare for all, then that’s our kind of person.

[geek tragedy]

29. "If there is a Republican ... that believes in Medicare For All"

"If there's an elephant with wings, it will rule the skies."

[BainsBane]

34. The one-way firing squad certainly hasn't helped

After months of artillery fire, they are pissed about a single bullet directed the other way.

[redgreenandblue]

4. Some people like calling people racist and sexist more than they like winning.

That is the main problem.

[BainsBane]

6. Some people like calling people corporatist and turd way

More than they like winning. That is the main problem.

[stonecutter357]

8. +1000

[mcar]

14. This!

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. Thank you!

[Demsrule86]

16. Some folks are racist and sexist as demonstrated by Charlottesville....some people

are entitled and don't have to be concerned about minor things such as Nazis and the KKK (sarcasm)...lucky people for sure. They will not doubt get through the Trump years intact, but not everyone will.

[Ken Burch]

27. Yes, there are people like that, and all of us, whoever we supported in 2016, are against them.

Last year, in the spring, a lot of Sanders supporters were essentially being ACCUSED of being racist and sexist just because they backed Bernie over Hillary in the primaries.

Would you at least agree that the 99.5% of Sanders supporters who WEREN'T "bros" did nothing to deserve that, and that all such accusations against people who still support that former candidate or that former candidate's values need to stop NOW?

[chwaliszewski]

7. This was my view of the primary, coming from an Independent progressive...

Before Bernie announced his intention to run for the Democratic nomination, I had planned on voting for the Democratic nominee without question. Anyone the Republicans were going to put out there would probably be a bag of dog shit so they were never considered an option. I figured it would undoubtedly be Hillary as she would probably be running for the nomination unopposed.

But then, Bernie threw his name in the hat. After listening to what he had to say, I was inspired and intrigued. Regardless of what others thought about him or his proclamations, he actually sounded like he wanted to help this country. Hillary, to me, sounded like she wanted to be POTUS, not that that is a bad thing. I'm certain she wanted to improve things for people and what not but Bernie was more convincing to me.

That was the difference for me. I was devastated when he did not win but I would stick to my original plan of voting for the Democratic nominee, especially with the Tangerine Nightmare as her opponent.

[stonecutter357]

9. he lost get over it...

[Ken Burch]

28. Walter didn't support Bernie, so you have no reason to say that to him.

And I don't think he should run again, either.

It's not as though any comment about Sanders supporters that isn't filled with choking hatred is a call for Bernie to run again.

[seaglass]

10. Funny how the majority of MRA-ish DUers ended up over at JPR. No pattern there at all.

And I personally loved the suggestion that Hillary voters were vagina voters.

Your memory is quite selective.

[haveahart]

11. Had Bernie won the primary 99% of HRC supporters would have voted for him in the general election.

Sadly, the opposite was not true. It's as simple as that and we all know it whether we admit it or not.

[dalton99a]

13. +1

[LostOne4Ever]

19. History suggests the opposite

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

Another useful comparison is to 2008, when the question was whether Clinton supporters would vote for Barack Obama or John McCain (R-Ariz.) Based on data from the 2008 Cooperative Campaign Analysis Project, a YouGov survey that also interviewed respondents multiple times during the campaign, 24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election.

An analysis of a different 2008 survey by the political scientists Michael Henderson, Sunshine Hillygus and Trevor Thompson produced a similar estimate: 25 percent. (Unsurprisingly, Clinton voters who supported McCain were more likely to have negative views of African Americans, relative to those who supported Obama.)

Thus, the 6 percent or 12 percent of Sanders supporters who may have supported Trump does not look especially large in comparison with these other examples.

[mythology]

25. Facts sometimes get in the way of what people want to believe

[aikoaiko]

21. Have you forgotten the 2008 PUMAs?

[haveahart]

23. Have you forgotten Bernie is a white guy? Have you forgotten he would have been running against DT?

[geek tragedy]

30. There would have been centrist/moderate Clinton supporters who would not have supported

Sanders. Can't quantify that but he never had to defend his proposals against genuine rightwing demagoguery. On tax increases alone he would have lost significant numbers of Clinton supporters.

[geek tragedy]

31. There would have been centrist/moderate Clinton supporters who would not have supported

Sanders. Can't quantify that but he never had to defend his proposals against genuine rightwing demagoguery. On tax increases alone he would have lost significant numbers of Clinton supporters.

[Ken Burch]

32. Actually, we can't be sure of that. There were a LOT of people here

who were threatening to vote Bloomberg(who'd have run as an anti-labor(therefore automatically right-wing on most issues)third-party candidate if Bernie were nominated-even though the differences between Trump and Bloomberg are too trivial to matter. Bloomberg's platform was essentially Goldwater's 1964 platform(his only non-conservative position was being pro-choice).

The overwhelming majority of Sanders supporters DID back Hillary, even though they were treated like what they'd done all year was a pathetic failure. It wasn't their fault that the Comey thing and voter suppression happened.

[Arazi]

12. K and R. The demonization of Bernie supporters is incredibly shortsighted

I'm a big Bernie supporter who likes and admires Hillary Clinton too. The fierce attacks on Bernie and his supporters is a massive turnoff.

We're going to need every potential ally we can get for state and local races plus 2018. Instead there appears to be a deliberate effort to piss all over them

This is a dangerous and crazy tactic

[Demsrule86]

15. I find your post completely untrue.

It was not idealism;it may have started that way but in the general it was punish Democrats by electing Trump (Voting for Stein counts as voting for Trump)...or the parties are all the same-tell that to DACA kids... now it is about primarying sitting Democrats...and enacting purity tests...and causing us to lose in 18 and 20. The party and sitting Democrats were attacked during the general and it continues today. I am sick of losing because of those who claim to be the "best" progressives and the base ( if you don't vote Dem you are no such thing;third party trash). These folks literally have blood on their hands...ask any DACA kid how important it was for the Democrats to win in 16 or if they think the parties are the same. Perhaps you could explain why economics magically trumps social justice while you are at it.

[Expecting Rain]

17. I.m not seeing "sincere optimism," but instead pessimistic nativist-populism that...

devolved, as is typical of populist movements, into demagoguery (infused with sanctimoniousness and divisiveness).

Feh!