"People for Bernie" says that Ds and Rs are basically the same. Promises to attack both.

[DetlefK]

http://www.salon.com/2017/09/08/some-bernie-sanders-supporters-complain-that-the-democratic-party-isnt-letting-them-run-things/

Politico reported Friday that Bernie Sanders supporters are trying to infiltrate and purify the Democratic Party by lobbing attacks at anyone who seems to move to the center.

Prominent Democrats are increasingly riled by attacks from Bernie Sanders’ supporters, whose demands for ideological purity are hurting the party ahead of the 2018 midterms and 2020 presidential election, they say.


https://medium.com/@People4Bernie/in-response-to-the-democratic-party-establishments-recent-attempts-to-divide-the-party-b6228c7316ec

The Democratic Party establishment has no leverage over us or over Bernie. Time and time again, we've proven that we are willing to work with them. Unfortunately, it seems they’re more willing to work with Trump than work with us.

They’re the ones creating division. We encourage them to show up to the next canvass and talk to actual activists instead of talking to their donor list.

...

We don’t need unity around party, we need unity around issues. On issue after issue, the American people have already decided they’re on our side.

...

As a group and as a movement we spend far more time attacking Republicans than Democrats. If certain Democrats can only see the attacks on them, they need to act less like Republicans and more like Democratic Socialists.



--------------------

There you have it. By their own words.
You are either with the "People for Bernie" or you're against them.
If you're not a Democratic Socialist, then you're not a Democrat: Then you're a Republican.



I have seen quite a few posts that the Democrats should be nice to the Bernie-people, because the Ds need their votes...
Now we know how the Democrats can do that!
All they have to do is giving the "People for Bernie" full control over the party! It's that simple!!!!!!

[Not Ruth]

1. Liberal and far left are different groups

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. A liberal is someone who puts social issues, black rights, gay rights, women's rights

civil rights of all non white christians, ahead of any and all economic issues.

Far left I am not sure of, or what that means exactly.

[Not Ruth]

10. To the left of liberals

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-left_politics

[mcar]

13. I am proud to be a liberal

[EffieBlack]

75. Thank you.

[johnsonsnap]

78. True, but why does Bernie refuse to associate with that?

Well?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

140. You are accusing Rosewater of saying something he didn't.

Please do not do that, even if it is your first post.

He did not call anybody "racists and deplorables".

Rosewater wasn't throwing anybody under the bus.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

142. You did not reference any of that and I don't have time to chase them down.

In any case, in the post you just linked, the DU member you are attacking makes an excellent point: As much as tRump is a problem the fact that his supporters are blind to his faults is a big problem too.

As far as I can see (5 or 6 of your 7) your posts have all consisted of attacks on Democrats and DU members.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

147. Now you are stuffing words in MY mouth. I have not called anybody deplorable/racist in this thread.

Stop. Please. While you can.

[George II]

145. First post on DU and you're calling someone a troll. Welcome.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

148. Seems like she/he is very concerned. Effectively very divisive. . . nt

[George II]

149. Looks like we'll never know. His stay was short, but not so sweet.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

138. You have defined "social liberal" and opposed it to "economic liberal". Both are "liberal". . . . nt

[Hortensis]

163. Far left chooses a leader and supports zealously. But ECONOMIC after all social issues?

Last edited Sun Sep 10, 2017, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

Sorry, but lifelong liberal here, and that makes about as much sense as a doctor prescribing aspirin but holding the antibiotic until after the fever and cough resolve. They must be addressed together.

Economic issues are not just hugely important to everyone personally and because the stability and wellbeing of our nation are implacably tied to them, but economic issues are hugely integral to all other rights, very much including social justice issues. Money is empowering.

[Caliman73]

188. Agreed

No offense to Elliot Rosewater, but I think defining liberals as putting social issues ahead of economic issues is not accurate. Economic issues and social issues are intertwined.

The problem with Bernie Sanders and many of his supporters (of which I was one in the primary) is that he focused almost exclusively on economic issues without addressing the specific social issues which lock many women and minorities out from economic justice. Bernie did not resonate with many people of color because he failed to address the additional obstacles that they face. We have to remember that even during the hay day of the Union movement in the 40's through the 60's, there was segregation and discrimination by Unions against Black Americans, Latinos, and women. Economic justice is never really guaranteed for ALL Americans, but social justice for Black people, Latinos, Asians, LGBT people, and Women does not mean LESS justice for other groups not mentioned. Liberal either do, or they certainly SHOULD be for both social and economic justice.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Way more of this to come. Way more.

[lunasun]

36. Completely agree :(

[samnsara]

4. they arent dems they are something else they just havent decided what yet

[brush]

11. Why don't they stop threatening and just start their own party.

PLEASE!

It's like that movie: They just don't know how to quit us.

[PragmaticLiberal]

19. That's where I'm at as well.

If they're truly that unhappy then perhaps it's time to strike out on their own.

[democratisphere]

79. The rebernicon party?

[brush]

92. I see what you did there. And they'd only got after Dems too, as they are now.

[trueblue2007]

117. THEY threatening DEMOCRATIC PART. Y They & Them Bernie. I'M tired of Bernie dictating to Democrats

He isn't even a member of our party !! Why are OUR Democrats giving in to him.
If Bernie wants to BE A DEMOCRAT that is fine, but until then, I think he should stop threatening us.

[MizMort]

126. Long time lurker

I joined DU because I am kind of horrified by the influx of all this Bernie content. I am a proud Democrat and I would have never voted for Bernie or Stein. Ever.

It was time to finally sign up and add my loyal Democrat voice to this community- I must say, I do love the block and trash feature very much!

[shanny]

137. Where in the quoted material is Bernie

dictating to Democrats?

[fleabiscuit]

173. ...theres a pink one, and a green one...

[susanna]

125. Amen. n/t

[bettyellen]

5. Ignore the majority of voters and talk to activists?

Oy vey!

[Autumn]

6. Those prominent Dems should go on TV and talk to those"people for Bernie".

As a Bernie supporter just like him, I support Dems. I clicked on your link to see who these "people for Bernie" are and it took me to a writing site. There is othing there about these "people for Bernie".

[lunasun]

42. The same response is on thier Twitter acct

https://mobile.twitter.com/people4bernie?lang=en
Look for
https://medium.com/@People4Bernie/in-response-to-the-democratic-party-establishments-recent-attempts-to-divide-the-party-b6228c7316ec

[Autumn]

48. I don't have a tweet account but they look like nut cases IMO.Their manifesto has 99 claps

[lapucelle]

58. Medium is not a "writing site".

Here's the updated link to their story.

https://medium.com/@People4Bernie/in-response-to-the-democratic-party-establishments-recent-attempts-to-divide-the-party-b6228c7316ec

Here's the tweet that People for Bernie published yesterday.

Link to tweet

[Fiendish Thingy]

102. For all we know, PFB is one guy on Twitter nt

[msongs]

7. bernie ran. he lost. by millions of votes. nt

[Kablooie]

8. Sounds like the Coffee Party is starting up.

[NastyRiffraff]

116. Or the Keyboard Party.

[LonePirate]

9. And people wonder why there are still 2016 primary arguments here on DU.

It would seem that some people have not learned a damn thing since January 20 of this year.

[Lil Missy]

18. The OP says nothing about the Primaries. Over and over I see that -

any comment that might reflect poorly on Bernie or a group of his supporters, someone complains that it is fighting the Primary again. Current events are not fighting the Primaries all over again. He (or they) do not get a blank check for anything that comes after the Primary.

[spooky3]

37. This. It's about the present and future direction of the

Dem. Party.

[LonePirate]

60. I agree. It's that certain segments here at DU do not want the "no difference" people called out.

And if someone does dare to call out people who think there is/was no difference between Hillary and 45, they are immediately ganged up on by his supporters. It's like clockwork.

[JHan]

167. +++++++++

If that's the case , those who don't like it being called out probably sympathize with the disrupters.

[mcar]

12. By their own words indeed

They are actively working to hurt the Dem party. Tell me again, why should we reach out to them?

[MANative]

14. Grrr...

As much as some people say they want Hillary to go away, multiply that by 10,000,000 and you get how I feel about Bernie bros.

[Old Vet]

16. +1000

[BainsBane]

27. +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

There aren't enough zeros to communicate my agreement with that statement.

[Skidmore]

15. Time to

follow.the.money.

[BainsBane]

23. No kidding

[ProfessorPlum]

17. I think "people for Bernie" must have the same membership as "Antifa"

namely, figments of a right wingers wet dream.

[lunasun]

44. They are active on Twitter 90k following

https://mobile.twitter.com/people4bernie?lang=en

[ProfessorPlum]

54. Oh, well then

there are no fake people on Twitter, as we all know

[clu]

67. twitter schmitter

half could be Russian. sorry to be dismissive maybe they are an earnest group but I don't think they represent the intentions of all progressive voters. yes some dems should be primaried, but with good candidates. 2017 is not that far away whew

[Demsrule86]

150. And I have some advice for this goup I hope you don't enjoy your privilege, and go fuck yourself...

good advice for any that think the parties are the same...

[Orsino]

189. They are needed to fuel the "Bernie attacks Dems" machine. n/t

[pansypoo53219]

20. both do pander to wall street right now. we need to cut off wall street.

[ananda]

21. Agree

If Dems would just be Dems and go back to their
liberal roots, nobody would have to worry about
Sanders supporters.

They would win races handily.

[BainsBane]

24. and when is "back"?

what time are you talking about. Please, be specific.

[nini]

30. So the people that vote for the far right wing nutjobs are making a better choice?

How the hell does that make sense?

That's one of the lamest arguments make by you purists that we lose votes to the side that is completely off the edge of the right.

Learn about gerrymandering, election hacking etc.. then talk to me about how easy it is.

Democrats are still the best choice.

[Demsrule86]

32. That is such nonsense. Wall Street needs regulation, but we need Wall Street...would

you be happier if the banker world went to China? Millions of Americans including me have money in 401K's which would not be helped by destroying Wall Street, and this sort of rhetoric won't work in electing Democrats either. It is foolish...you have to have an economy...most Americans have no desire to live in a country without jobs...so for God sake, can we show some common sense and stop with the meaningless talking points like 'get Wall Street'. It won't happen, and it shouldn't happen. How about common sense regulation? Now that has meaning.

[BainsBane]

25. The GOP passed a banking deregulation bill

Just before the People's Summit. The speeches from that Summit, most notably Nina Turners, made no mention of the bill. Instead she claimed the Democrats were worse than the GOP on Wall Street, despite the fact Democrats opposed the bill. If the concern was Wall Street, why wouldn't have Turner and others encouraged supporters to organize against that bill?

The Clinton campaign and the party proposes greater regulation of and higher taxes for Wall Street.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/wall-street/
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/a-fair-tax-system/

To claim they are the same is factually false. In fact, it requires a concerted effort to remain uninformed.

[Hekate]

45. What does that even mean?

Regulate

[BainsBane]

73. I wonder why it is so hard

Last edited Sat Sep 9, 2017, 02:07 AM - Edit history (1)

To say what they mean by any of these labels?

[JI7]

83. they probably go into it among themselves

according to one poster the democratic party from 30s-60s was the glory days of the party.

[Eliot Rosewater]

53. What does that mean? I know it is easy to say and most people will

move their heads up and down in agreement, not knowing exactly what they are agreeing to, actually.

What is "pander" and what would you have a political party do with our economy which is almost entirely based on Wall Street, unfortunately?

You see if you want to talk about the ills of our version of capitalism, we can talk, I will be to the left of you on it I bet.

But if you want to talk about our EXISTENCE now, and how to deal with it, that is different, VASTLY different.

[stevenleser]

63. Instead of spouting meaningless slogans like "pander to Wall Street" we should be more concerned

With things like attacks on LGBT, African American and women's rights not to mention attacks on the dreamers who did nothing wrong.

Meaningless slogans aimed at Democrats helps empower Republicans and helps put them in office.

[Caliman73]

190. Can you explain your statement?

What is "pandering to Wall Street"?

What does "Cutting off Wall Street" mean and how would that look?

I am all for addressing the influence that finance has on the political system but to me, "pandering" and "cutting off" sound like empty phrases that maybe express frustration, but do not provide any sort of information.

[BainsBane]

22. I'm against them

Unity around issues? What issues? They want unity around Bernie and their own demands for power.
If they gave even the slightest shit about issues, they wouldn't say the two parties are the same. That's a blatant lie.
That comment reveals complete disregard for the lives of DACA recipients, victims of hate crimes, the sick, elderly, and others who are losing rights and basic subsistence income under Trump. It shows they don't give the slightest shit about access to higher education or the environment.

Only people with a great deal of privilege and financial comfort could make that statement.

[Kolesar]

31. They seem like the Obama haters from DU

There was a list of harms they kept whining about. Gay rights, TPP, etc.

[mcar]

64. They do

People who will never be happy, will always find something to be outraged about.

[Me.]

72. I'm With You

Fed up with these shams

[Lil Missy]

26. Personally I think they ought to be ignored, written off. I don't care for this attitude that

the majority of Democrats need to coddle and appease the far fewer 3rd Party left voters so they will vote for the Democratic nominee.

[nini]

29. I agree

There's too much at stake to keep spending time on them.

[nini]

28. "Time and time again, we've proven that we are willing to work with them."

Someone needs to tell them 'working with' does NOT mean if they don't get their way every time they lash out like petulant children.


You can't get a damn thing done without compromise at times. Until they figure that out they'll be the insane tea party of the left.

I am so over them.

[jalan48]

33. "People for Bernie". The new boogeyman to scare people to the middle.

[Demsrule86]

34. It will work...they will have the American people running to the right in droves...with this sort of

rhetoric. And that is a damn shame.

[jalan48]

35. LOL-right now it looks like the Democrats are the "they".

[Demsrule86]

50. No it doesn't at all ...these groups running primary candidates against sitting Dems and

endorsing candidates like Mello are pushing us rightward...and the GOP will make us look socialist...the kiss of death for us in the coming elections. The far left cost us 16...the fucking Greens ...eternal spoilers and their riffraff buddies...and now we have moved to the right...thanks to them...now that is irony for you.

[jalan48]

84. So the politicians tell us what we can do instead of the other way around?

We have moved to the right because our political parties have moved to the right over the last 40 years. The influence of money coming from corporations and wealthy individuals has harmed our system of government-not the Greens and other fringe groups. More social programs to help the citizens mean higher taxes for these folks, so guess what- these programs are referred to as "ponies" and are called unrealistic. Sadly even Democrats are falling for this charade.

[Demsrule86]

94. Voters are in charge...however you have to support the Democrat period...

And your concern for wealth and wall street would be more convincing if the far left was not primarying Dianne Feinstein with a rich Wall Street guy who is pretending to be a socialist...hahah.

[mythology]

38. How does that differ from saying Sanders helped elect Trump?

Both sides seem far more invested in being "right" than finding common ground. And yes that absolutely includes some of the more aggressive Clinton supporters.

[GoCubsGo]

39. I noticed a few have infiltrated this site already.

(Or, returned from that other site.) The only posts they have made have been to push Sanders. Not a peep from them in the posts about the hurricanes, DACA, Trump, or any actual Democratic issues and policies....

[nini]

49. More than a few

That's why there's been an escalation in the insanity here lately.

[guillaumeb]

40. Surveys consistently show strong support for a more progressive platform.

But instead of a single payer plan, we have an Insurance company subsidy thinly disguised as a health care plan.

The US spends far more on its war machine than the next 12 countries combined, yet there is bipartisan support for even more war spending and military intervention.

Surveys show that actual workers and taxpayers support higher taxes on the rich and their corporations, but where is the call for higher taxes on the rich?

I see this as being on the side of the workers or being on the side of the rich.

[stevenleser]

65. Not really. Depending how those surveys are worded they can show support

For liberal or conservative policies.

[JI7]

87. yup, just look at actual votes for single pay in colorado which is a state obama and clinton won

[clu]

89. i guess the state legislature

guessed correctly that as a single state they could not afford such a program

[guillaumeb]

103. Which is the real issue.

It needs to be a national program.

[guillaumeb]

97. Which explains why Democrats receive more votes in elections?

Voting patterns support the idea that voters are progressive on the issues, but issue framing is the GOP strength.

[stevenleser]

99. Your response is not on point. nt

[guillaumeb]

104. One might say that your responses illustrate the divide

between those who call themselves pragmatists and those who see ground for a victory if only the Democratic Party can abandon a failed paradigm.

[tecelote]

201. +1

[Demsrule86]

151. Sure...that is why Russ Feingold was elected...oh wait.

It is going to vary by the state and trying to elect a liberal or a socialist in say Texas or West Virginia simple won't work...and as I have said before, people lie.

[guillaumeb]

165. Money defeated Feingold.

Sanders ran very well in rural areas and in states that the Democrats lost in the election. He is still the most popular politician in the US. To say that certain states must be written off to any progressive appeal in favor of centrism is to concede defeat prior to the election.

[Demsrule86]

169. So maybe you agree we need money right?

[guillaumeb]

177. When money is treated as speech, yes money is necessary.

But Sanders, and Wellstone before him, showed how motivated voters can overcome money.

[Demsrule86]

183. Not really...Wellstone maybe, but Sanders was not the candidate.

And that is two people...and how many lost because they didn't have the money?

[LisaM]

41. Bernie should ask them to stop using his name.

If he doesn't, well, then it's clear that he doesn't mind this.

[Hekate]

47. [phone]

[R B Garr]

77. +100000, this has gone way beyond politics. nt

[MrsCoffee]

93. As if.

[nini]

100. I agree and I also wonder how many of those 'Bernie' supporters..

are Russian bots working on dividing the Democrats? I think there's both the bots and the obnoxious bros here at work.

[YCHDT]

129. +1, give this a second if he doesn't say anything then this is a front group

[Demsrule86]

152. If he doesn't then...he obviously does not object or may even agree.

[world wide wally]

43. And this is how and why conservatives are kicking progressives collective asses

Plus, I hate to break it to you but Bernie will never be the President.
Now, what are you going to do about that? Vote for Jill Stein? Or maybe Trump himself?

[Demsrule86]

153. Sadly, there will be hell to pay when some figure out that A. Sen. Sanders doesn't run (best case)

B. Sen. Sanders is not permitted to run as a Democrat as he is not a Democrat...or C. Sen. Sanders loses the primary. I think some actually think he will be president in 2020. It will never happen but the attempt will elect a Republican.

[Blue_Tires]

46. Meh... Most (but not all) of them them are obvious ratfucking trolls

trying to stir the shit from some Macedonian server farm...

[Cary]

51. What a disappointment those people are.

Good grief.

[Gothmog]

52. K&R

[Weekend Warrior]

55. PFB: The Bro's

NSFW

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=PFBs&amp=true&defid=6808456

[Mike Nelson]

56. How insulting...

...obviously, Bernie Sanders doesn't agree with these liars. He repeatedly noted a clear difference between Democrats and Republicans - and he had no trouble seeing the difference between Hillary and Trump.

[Willie Pep]

110. There seems to be a big difference between Bernie and some Bernie supporters online.

Sanders can't control all of the people who claim his name. Some of these online Bernie supporters are really "out there" but as others have pointed out before on this forum most Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in the general election and there is not much difference between most Clinton and Sanders supporters except for a few issues like trade and perceptions of corruption in the political process. Those are important differences but not as large as some would think given the intensity of arguments on the Internet between some Clinton and Sanders supporters. Thankfully the Internet is not exactly like real life. This is why I try to avoid some of these online groups. They often represent the views of a small number of extreme people not the majority.

[Mike Nelson]

120. I agree...

...they are a small minority, but very vocal. I have friends who can't forgive the Democrats for "stealing" the election from Bernie. He did well - there were some regrettable moments by all, but there always are... many of the Bernie supporters clearly stated, right here on DU, that they would never vote for Hillary Clinton. I believed them. Also, she moved as "left" as she could without losing support on the other side. Hillary, Bernie and many Democrats are more "liberal" than they let on... it's politics. Bernie has the gun folks in VT to think about, for example. I wish people could be more practical...

[Willie Pep]

121. Didn't Clinton have the most left-wing Democratic platform in decades?

I can't remember where I read that but I think it is true. Anyway, I agree with you. I don't understand why some people would want to possibly throw the election to Trump just because of the primary. Even if you don't agree with Clinton on everything at least with her Sanders supporters would get say 75% of what they want as opposed to almost nothing like they would with Trump.

[haveahart]

57. Can we please stop talking about Bernie? He is NOT a Democrat.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. as per Skinner:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=12974

[stevenleser]

88. Skinners response is noteable for the qualifying phrase

"For all intents and purposes"

You use that kind of a qualifying phrase for someone or something that isn't really part of a group or class but you are making an exception to treat them as such.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Right, we all understand that Bernie isn't officially a Democrat.

However, what admin seems to be saying here is, for the purposes of discussion and the rules of DU, he is subject to the same considerations.

[Expecting Rain]

91. The same consideration as the DEMOCRATS regularly slandered on this forum?

Cuz damn!

[grantcart]

118. The guy with the big fucking asterisk

Real Democrats don't need asterisks

[stevenleser]

124. Very well and succinctly put.

[Bleacher Creature]

59. Anyone who says that the two parties are the same deserves to be ignored. Forever.

Last edited Fri Sep 8, 2017, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)

[stevenleser]

68. +9999999... I really thought the political left mostly learned their lesson from the Nader debacle

Thinking Gore was as bad as Bush should embarrass anyone in hindsight. 16 years later many of them made the same mistake again.

That should be doubly embarrassing, I mean anyone can make a bad mistake once right? To not learn from widely known and public mistakes from others (or yourself) and do the same thing again is really the stuff of rank stupidity. (i.e JPR types)

[Cary]

69. Radicals will be radicals

And ever so they shall remain.

[stevenleser]

71. Radical I can take. Being brain dead enough to equate Gore & Bush and Hillary & Trump

And use those stupid beliefs to make voting decisions that hurt large groups of vulnerable Americans is another matter.

[DFW]

127. Indeed. Radical is not the same as stupid.

Equating Gore and Bush or HRC and Trump is basically looking into the sun and saying it's midnight.

[shanny]

139. What should be embarrassing

is continuing to blame Nader for the loss of Florida when far more Florida Democrats voted for Bush than Nader.

But scapegoating the left is preferable to some, isn't it.

[stevenleser]

166. No, once again, since anyone can register anyway they want, those statistics mean nothing.

You can register as a Republican. If you then vote Green does that mean Republicans want Greens in office?

No. I lived in Florida for 15 years. I know that there are a lot of conservative people in the panhandle who register Democratic because they arent as far right as a lot of the other folks in the panhandle. But few of their views are what anyone here on DU would consider Democratic. Those are the "Democrats" who voted for Bush.

Do the research before you make assertions. And not just superficial research, try to understand what it is you are saying at a deep level, because what you wrote here isn't it and doesn't cut it.

[shanny]

181. oh dear

so what constitutes a real "Democrat" is what people on this board and specifically you, think constitutes a real Democrat? that's one problem--but it's debatable so i'm not going to bother with arguing about it. but to back up your claim of deep knowledge and research you cite fucking anecdotal evidence? your personal experience--as told to you, 'cause you certainly didn't witness it in the literal sense

that is very, very deep. i am so impressed.

[stevenleser]

182. No oh dear necessary, just think about things before you post. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

61. Please to Go Fuck Yourselves, People for Bernie.

No. Really. Go Fuck Yourselves.

[ucrdem]

62. What took them so long to figure this out I wonder.

I remember when Lyndon LaRouche tried to take over the Peace and Freedom Party in California. Very ugly and P&F never really recovered.

[stevenleser]

66. I'll say this for the LaRouchies, they know how to do crazy.

If it were an act they would deserve an academy award.

Sadly it's not.

[dembotoz]

70. Did our big tent get smaller?

[EffieBlack]

74. Sick of him. Sick of them.

Yes. I said it.

[onecaliberal]

76. Who exactly are these Fucking people. I don't believe they exist.

Just fucking stop already

[LuvLoogie]

80. Not these guys again...

[Historic NY]

81. They are nuts..................

People for Bernie present a convoluted argument. In their first paragraph, they renounce loyalty to the Democratic Party,

[JI7]

85. those people are most likely right wing trolls , they certainly aren't progressive or anything on

the left.

[clu]

98. your first post in this thread

seemed to accept the article on it's face and went on to condemn members of this group. maybe I misinterpreted - my mistake. thank you for this clarification it is important to make.

[jalan48]

86. But millions of dollars flowing into the political system from corporations and the rich is OK?

"People for Bernie", "Berniebros", etc. are ruses to distract us from the reality of our current political system. Who is paying to elect our politicians?

[emulatorloo]

106. Which DU'er said millions of dollars from corporations into politics is "OK"?

Sorry not seeing anyone saying that.

[jalan48]

107. It's how the system currently opearates. The Clinton campaign raised over a billion dollars in

her losing effort. My point is why all this focus on Greens and Bernie Bros-shouldn't our focus be on the big money buying our elections? The Greens have no power and little influence compared to billionaire hedge fund mangers.

[emulatorloo]

108. In otherwords no DU'er said that. Those in this thread are objecting to the false meme that

the two parties are "the same".

I don't know anything about this group, I doubt Bernie is aligned w it.

[jalan48]

109. I think under the current political set-up both parties are the same in the need to raise vast sums

of money to finance their candidates. Bernie made this a central point of his candidacy.

[emulatorloo]

113. I suggest you review current events in Congress before you claim Pelosi/Schiff are the same as

Steve King/Paul Ryan.

As to campaign finance issues, I'll remind you Our Revolution is a 501c, which is not required to reveal its donors.

Campaign finance reform is a huge issue. We should have a full and honest discussion about that. Not spuriously claim that Dems and Republicans are the 'same'

[jalan48]

114. Thanks for the suggestion. My point is about campaign finance and our two political parties.

[emulatorloo]

115. Yes that's a great discussion to have. Which sorta goes back to my original post to you.

It isn't relevant to the OP which is about ideology.

Until we get more Dems elected to congress I see little chance we'll see comprehensive finance reform. Republicans have zero interest in reform.


---

Interesting article about Barbara Boxers new hybrid PAC. Designed to create attack ads against Republicans and support Democratic candidates in CA.

Barbara Boxer may be retired, but she isn’t giving up the fight against Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/barbara-boxer-may-be-retired-but-she-isnt-giving-up-the-fight-against-trump/2017/09/09/78a1d37a-94c9-11e7-aace-04b862b2b3f3_story.html?utm_term=.c326afa743f9

<snip>

This violates Boxer’s belief that unlimited donations should be outlawed, but she’s willing to endure the charge of hypocrisy as long as conservative groups collect even larger checks from mega-donors.

“I’m going to play by the same rules as the Koch brothers,” Boxer said in a reference to Charles and David Koch. The billionaire brothers donate to politicians and political causes.

<snip>

I believe this is what drives progressive organizations like Our Revolution and progressives like Boxer to create PACs. No one is interested in laying down and surrendering to billionaires Republicans. No finance reform is coming until we get more Dems in congress.

[YCHDT]

130. There's nothing wrong with raising vast sums of money for candidates, we don't need to conflate

[Demsrule86]

155. There is no way to stop it...because the fucking Greens and left left riffraff elected George Bush

who packed the courts and ushered in United...now some of you seem to think that Democrats should be all high and mighty and not take the money...that happened by the way during Obama's time in office; there was a rule implemented at the DNC...did you see any winning? We have to win before we can address the money and starving our candidates is not the way to go. The rule about money has been rescinded and thank God for that. In Ohio, they gave up on our gubernatorial candidate in a month or two...only those who were convincingly ahead got money because there wasn't any damn money...so some purist may enjoy losing and wring their hands sobbing, 'the Dems must take the high road', and watch the GOP literally kill people and steal our rights one by one, but I want to win and stop those bastards...so we do what we have to in order to win...or it really doesn't matter.

[jalan48]

158. LOL-it's those evil greens again..

[Demsrule86]

171. They have done lasting damage to this country.

[jalan48]

175. LOL-

[Demsrule86]

184. 9-11,war,united,katrina, and in the last years of Bush whom the Greens elected economic debacle.

Job losses and pension losses followed...my neighbor hung himself in his garage...while many left left talk about the abstract and how the Dems should or should not...blah blah...real people live and die when they vote their so called conscience. My conscience doesn't allow me to vote for a candidate that can not win and elect a Republican who literally causes the death of the poor and now the DACA kids if they get their way.

Had these folks not abandoned Obama because he could not get the impossible dream...single payer...we might have made some progress during his term...but no...sob , sob ...why they would show him and take away every possibility of a implementing a progressive agenda (created the gerrymander too). We had six years where nothing got done...nothing new with these folks.They are very effective in their sabotage and have elected many Republicans.

[jalan48]

185. All this blame of others going around. Where's it coming from?

How about we look in the mirror and ask ourselves why millions of registered Democrats and other voters don't even bother to vote in elections. The blame game is hurting our Party, it makes us look out of touch. What are we afraid to see?

[Demsrule86]

186. Every word I wrote is true...they should look in the mirror.

[jalan48]

192. Blame game is a losing strategy.

[Demsrule86]

193. The truth is the truth...they are to blame...pretending otherwise is foolish.

[jalan48]

194. It's everyone else's fault-I get it.

[Demsrule86]

195. We already talked about this ...not everyone's...the left left green scum.

Vote Democratic. it is the only way to advance a progressive agenda...look to majorities which never happen without a big tent Democratic Party.

[jalan48]

196. I guess you didn't get the part about the declining Party membership and the millions of people who

didn't even bother to vote. Do you think those mean Greens kept them away from the polls?

[Demsrule86]

197. I guess I don't care...those who don't belong to either party have no say in

what happens and there are some states that don't have party registration...people who tout the 'falling numbers' never take that into account. All those on the left left...these conscience voter who have no conscience or empathy for real human beings like the Dreamers, all they can do is act as spoilers and enable Trump and the GOP...I don't consider them progressive in the least and I despise them. Of course many of them during the 2016 general who were touting the idea the parties are the same or the Democrats were worse for God's sake...and the I hate Hillary meme...were Russian trolls who tricked the apparently gullible left left green riffraff...well when one considers the Democratic Party to be the same or even a greater threat than rethugs...that person can't be very bright.

[jalan48]

198. Don't stop squeezing that turnip-I think there's still a little blood left in it.

[Demsrule86]

199. The alt left thinks they are the majority...this is a center left country...they are not even the

majority of the Democratic Party...based on 16. So if you support groups like "our revolution" and right now even move on you support Republicans...as with primarying sitting Dems that is who they are helping.

[jalan48]

200. Labels and blame-a great strategy for victory?

[Blue_true]

95. Well that is progress.

If they live up to their word, it is better for us. Because in the past they have fucking attacked nothing but Democrats.

[eShirl]

96. Putin needs to stop meddling in our domestic politics

I mean, we need to stop Putin meddling in our domestic politics

[larry budwell]

101. We need to work with President Trump

Trump is President, not Bernie. A purity test will kill the Demo's chances in 2018 and 2020.
Being a Democratic Socialist is not a winning position. Let's win in 2018 and 2020. Remember that "politics" is the art of compromise.

[clu]

105. i may be pushing the envelope but

thank you mr. 49 post counter who registered in 2016 - we definitely need to move away from traditional democratic platforms

edit- work with president trump? this post stands with a three story foundation go back to russia

[Demsrule86]

156. How nice...now that is a different perspective...and we don't consider Trump president...as he stole

the election.

[trueblue2007]

119. WORK "WITH " PRESIDENT TRUMP ???? What kind of CRAP are you smoking ???

Who gives a crap about working with Trump??? If this is your idea, are you a Republican pushing this point? It sure isn't in the Democratic party platform to work WITH some asshole who is Against raising the minimum wage, wanting to privatize everything..... his rich buddies. PRO KICKING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE OUT OF THE USA, Against a woman's right to chose to have an abortion and all the other CRAP NOTIONS HE HAS !!!!!


YOU ARE WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trueblue2007]

123. i dunno you been alive but Democrats hardly EVER have anything in common with GOPs

and WORKING TOGETHER hardly ever works



HARDLY EVER GET IT???? GOP's propose things we hate. it is IMPOSSIBLE to work together when the GOP's want to get rid of OBAMA CARE, ABORTION, Want to put RELIGION IN SCHOOLS, want to DRILL IN THE TUNDRA, next to our rivers and in our oceans for just a few things. I think you are either trying to cause a fight with DEMS or you are incredibly naive.

[DFW]

133. "Work with Trump?" That's like saying we need to define the shape of an amoeba

How are Democrats supposed to "work with" someone whose views are shaped with the last person he talked with?

I'm trying to figure out just what issues are ripe for collaboration? Environment? Nope, Pruitt at EPA is proof that Trump couldn't care less. His "good luck" to drowning Houston confirmed it. Education? Nope. DeVos as Secretary of Education proves he couldn't care less about that. Foreign relations? Even Tillerson can't work with Trump, so how are Democrats supposed to manage that? The economy? Having Mnuchin at Treasury nixes any illusions of being able to do that, not to mention that Trump's actions with regard to his own and family businesses make it look like he is trying to surpass Warren Harding in the field of corruption in office.

The trouble with slogans like "work with Trump" is that Trump didn't have a political agenda to "work with" in the first place, other than satisfying his ego trip of beating Hillary. Well, he got his wish (well, OK, no, he didn't, but it was manipulated enough to have that effect). But what happened then? Like the Robert Redford character in "The Candidate," who ended up winning en election he wasn't supposed to win, Trump seems to have this lost "What do we do now?" approach to things.

Here's the next phase:

[YCHDT]

131. Trump is a threat to non-white Americans ... why work with this type of person? thx in advance

[DFW]

134. He's a threat to white Americans, too

He's a threat to a good many of his most enthusiastic supporters, for that matter. They won't realize it until they are out of work with no welfare or sick with cancer from pollution and have no means of getting treatment, or having their local schools closed for lack of funding, but until that and similar ills come home to roost, they will continue to think he's really good for them. After all, Fox Noise said so, and it's their only form of information. The opposite being true will remain of no consequence to them until it's too late to rectify their mistake--and even then, more than half of them will blame their ill fate on "libbruls."

[clu]

187. thanks for sharing

[LBM20]

160. Work with that totally incompetent lunatic? Are you serious?

[peggysue2]

191. There is no working with the Trumpster

Unless Pelosi & Schumer can pull additional rabbits out of the hat.

Beyond that this Administration is illegitimate, despicable and totally unreliable. I'm all for compromise but not with a mentally and morally challenged nitwit. If Pelosi and/or Schumer can outfox Trump, appealing to his McConnell/Ryan distrust or stroking his bloated ego? Fine. But compromising with a unstable mood-monster never ends well. The best scenario is Trump resigns or is forced out.

I absolutely agree that the Democratic Party must rack up wins in 2018 which makes the Saint Bernard/People for Bernie/constant popularity polling all the more odious in its divisiveness. Which, I suspect, is the underlying point. Anything to divide Democrats and have us fighting among ourselves. Worked pretty neatly in 2000 & 2016. And we're paying the price, not simply as a party but as a country. Same goes for calling for the ouster of Democratic leaders or insisting on progressive candidates in conservative districts. Or claiming that Democrats and Republicans are all the same. One need only glance at the Republican agenda/wish list to know how truly insane that theory is.

Whatever micro-wins we can manage with Trump we should take and run. Otherwise, he's toxic. Or as Rick Wilson--Republican Never-Trumper--has said repeatedly: "Everything Trump touches dies."

[Jakes Progress]

111. If you think that

Hillary and donnie are exactly the same, you are stupid.

Let's see. Bernie ran for the Democratic nomination. Does that make him just like donnie?

Actually the idiots who write this shit are most likely russian bots and paid trolls. They don't believe anything. They did this shit during the election and some soft-headed, non-thinkers ate it up. They are only gearing up for the next election with this kind of dangling bait for the weak-minded.

[mountain grammy]

112. Agree, and I really can't figure out why it's spread here on DU.

[Jakes Progress]

164. Bots and dolts go everywhere.

[get the red out]

128. I wonder

How much of this division of the left is pushed along by bots? Personally I think we waste our energy on this stuff. The election was hacked, Hillary really won, bots can go to hell, time to fight the hacking and the Republicans who love it.

[potone]

135. I agree.

Let's focus on issues and finding good candidates for offices at all levels.

We are facing crises on all fronts; let's not dissipate our energies on marginal groups.

[shanny]

136. "Unity around issues"--horrors!

And FYI it is a bad idea to keep following the center when the center is being dragged to the right by the nutjobs. We will all end up where we don't want to be.

[Demsrule86]

157. The only chance we have is to win and in a center left country...if it has not morphed into

a center right country by now, you can not run to the left, or you will have a Dukakis style loss. This time is not that different from the 90's where Bill Clinton devised a strategy to beat the Republicans, and it worked...saved the courts...now please spare me the whining about Clinton...no liberal was ever getting elected 92 and as a liberal, I am sad to say I don't think a true liberal or socialist can get elected in 2020. We are going to have to go after a big tent. It is the only way. Will we not get our liberal dreams fulfilled no...but we will get some things...like a public option which can lead to medicare for all or some other universal plan, maybe we can end two stupid wars, save the dreamers, reign in the police and their recent abuses, stop the practice of giving police department military weapons...the list is endless. You can be pure and lose, but a 100% of nothing is still nothing, or you can work with what we have: stop the GOP and have incremental victories. We need to face the reality of our situation...and make it work for us.

[shanny]

162. are you familiar with the overton window?

[Demsrule86]

170. That is how Trump won the presidency...

It doesn't change what I wrote...the country can not be considered as a whole but state by state or even district by district.

[shanny]

179. interesting theory

trump won by moving the overton window...where?

[ananda]

143. Would these actually be people for Trumputin?

Sheesh

[TexasBushwhacker]

172. That's what I'm thinking

People4Bernie is probably funded by the Russians or the Kochs or the Mercers. Because rat fuckers gotta fuck rats.

[liberal N proud]

159. These people are as bad as the tea baggers

They are just as extreem, just as dangerous.

[MBS]

176. I agree. . .

especially since they seem to be getting more strident, less co-operative, less willing to compromise with time. You'd think that with the current disastrous administration, they'd be more understanding of the need for a unified coalition. .. but no.
I'm getting really worried about this situation.

[flyingfysh]

161. I supported Bernie, but these people are nuts

Claiming that the parties are the same only plays into the hands of the ultra-rich Republicans. I had some disagreements with Hillary (if I look hard enough, I can find disagreements with practically anybody), but supported her enthusiastically.

[L. Coyote]

168. Isn't that a direct quote from "Russians for Meddling"?

Or is it a quote from "Republicans for Democratic Divisiveness"?
Or, are those just two names for the same group?

[NurseJackie]

174. "We dont need unity around party" How bizarre! Someone/s here often expresses the same sentiments.

We don’t need unity around party, we need unity around issues. On issue after issue, the American people have already decided they’re on our side.

How bizarre! Someone/s here often expresses the same sentiments.

They’re the ones creating division.

I've heard this mentioned here as well (same person/s as before, same sentiment, different words) always blaming others, avoiding responsibility and whining when loyal Democrats respond to the attacks and smears on the Democratic Party. Double-standards and vanity abound. Attacks on up-and-coming party leaders (like Kamala Harris and Cory Booker) and not-so-subtle comparisons that try to equate the Democratic Party with East German Stalinism... it's all so offensive... SO FUCKING OFFENSIVE!

We don’t need unity around party, we need unity around issues. On issue after issue, the American people have already decided they’re on our side.

Oh god! How many times have I heard this (again, same person/s) who has/have somehow managed to convince himself (or herself) that the voters didn't reject one and choose another.

As a group and as a movement we spend far more time attacking Republicans than Democrats. If certain Democrats can only see the attacks on them, they need to act less like Republicans and more like Democratic Socialists.

And there we have it, folks. These bitter angry people with chips on their shoulders DO INDEED want to take over, or "destroy-to-rebuild" the Democratic Party. (Why? Stein's spoiler Green Party awaits them.)

[WhiteTara]

178. Wasn't that Nadir's playbook? nt

[Akoto]

180. I wonder how much people like these piss off Sanders.

His name is used lately in a number of divisive groups or movements.

I'm pretty sure Sanders wouldn't sincerely agree that Democrats are no better than Republicans. The Dems at least share some of his values, or come close to.